I was noticing the other day that nobody in the world except myself and the ladies I have visited knows about my hobby participation (as far as I know).  Which is by design, of course.

But it feels odd sometimes not to be able to talk to anyone who knows me about some of the great experiences.

Oh, well, I guess that's what TER's for.  Does anyone else have friends they share their hobby experiences with?  Or am I the only one feeling a little isolated in a way?

-- Modified on 9/28/2006 5:58:30 AM

Watcha looking for? Bragging rights?

I have shared my hobbying with 3 buddies with different reactions.  

First guy, after I explained the financial comparison and time consumption of dating a civie to reach home base to a date with one of our lovely providers, he agreed with my logic, even though he did not totally approve.  

Second guy, he's trying to get me, a single guy, into the world of swinging, which he is active in, having found a fuck buddy for himself so he can attend swinger's parties.  Swinging sounds great, if you have your own fuck buddy or SO, which I have neither.

Third guy, who has been married for over 35 years, he was a little apprehensive of my participation, due to all the various reasons which people will give you for not hobbying.

First two guys are divorced and widowed.  I am divorced for over 20 years.  BTW, I have not discussed hobbying with any female friends.  Yet.

I don't feel isolated at all.  I feel that if I want to tell someone about my experiences, I will.
If I don't want to tell, I won't.  I sort of think of it as my little secret, and maybe I will tell you or maybe I will not.  But, I do not know anyone personally who has done any hobbying.

I have only been active in the hobby for about 6 months, so I am still a newbie, at least to my way of thinking.  How about some of you veterans out there expressing your opinions?

I have 3 friends who also partake of the hobby.  One of them is actually my brother-in-law but he is a great friend first.

I think its helpful to have a friend who you can be open with.  A true friend will not judge you.

As you say, that's one of the great things about ter but these fellow hobbyists are not really friends in that we are all anonymous to each other (there are exceptions I'm sure).  Try to open up to a dear, old friend.  You may be surprised that they too are either already playing in the hobby or want to do so but were not sure how to get started safely.

My oldest and dearest friend once had dinner with me several years ago and after a couple of drinks just flat out asked me if I "ever".  I laughed and told him yes.  I showed him TER and explained the process and taught him the "ropes" of this hobby.

He is now hooked!!!  He and I have actually visited a couple of "houses" together but he mostly plays when on business trips and calls on independents.

For what it's worth, I suspect for the same reasons you feel uncomfortable sharing with people on the outside is also a good reason to be descreet in here. For all I know you are LE. How would I know? Careful out there.

Dear bballs,

Yes, it's a lonely road to hoe sometimes . Hobbying, particularly in the more dominant Anglo-Saxon culture of the United States, is definitely frowned upon for many reasons. Historically, the US was settled by God-fearing moralists, and I believe that many of their prohibitions on discussing sexual matters, particularly outside the marriage - even if Thomas Jefferson et al were busy having extracurricular fun - have put a stamp on what to say and not to say to your male friends.

Historically, countries like Italy, France and Spain had condoned and intricate rules for the place of courtesans, mistresses and bona fide "second wives." Men of social standing discussed their paramours rather freely with their peers, and men who developed reputations a la Don Juan were admired rather than castigated. Naturally, this was a holdover from earlier traditional cultures where polygamy was practiced. In addition, Spain was occupied by Moorish and Islamic rulers for about 800 years, thereby setting the stage for a relaxed notion of what a man could do when he so chose.

Fast forward to the United States, past the Puritans, the Victorian era in Europe, and now the era of the nuclear insulated family, the delayed maturing of the offspring and the importance of keeping a family unit intact, so that the parental investment in nurturing the young could remain undisturbed. Not a great environment for dispersing one's resources, whether long term or for the moment. In today's society, your male friends may "officially" frown on your hobbying, not just from a moral perspective, but also from a financial and a medical risk one as well. This does not mean that they also wouldn't want to take the libertine leap and land in the arms of a hot number for some short term strategic mating! But the official story will usually be the same: it's BAD, for a variety of reasons. Of course, your friends may have an initially positive reaction of prurience and interest. But don't be surprised if they go home and discuss this with their SO's...only to end up agreeing with their loved ones, for fear of being thought of as morally corrupt, or worse..a male chauvinist, capable of doing exactly the same.

If you have bachelor friends, they may feel a little more at ease with the whole concept. But I believe that the fear of judgment looms large for participants on both sides of the hobby. Of course, the provider has always been demonized to a much larger extent, both legally and throughout history. The isolation, the stigma and the immense judgment are oftentimes much harder to bear for a woman. Often, providers cite these as the most difficult issues of their occupation and many retire only because they can't handle the ensuing emotional pressure. Were society a little less moralistic and more celebratory of our differences and choices, perhaps more providers and hobbyists would be able to open up and not suffer in silence.

It's a good thing to communicate with your TER friends,
the Love Goddess

Well I let my brother know so at my funeral he could tell all my sad married friends that I was having much better being single then they could have ever imagined.  Also brought it up once w/a couple of buddies and they thought i was full of b.s.  So i said, yep, i am full of bs and went back to the hobby the next night.  THere is still the stigma of paying for fun as opposed to being macho and going out to bar/social scene for the same result.   I have buddies that have spent 50k for boats just to try and meet chicks.   I tell them bad investment but what are ya gonna do.

He lives vicariously through my hobby endeavors and even flirts with joining in from time to time. But besides his moral morass he is also a penny pincher even though he's wealthy. I'm not sure which of his guilts would be greater. In contrast, I'm not morally strident, miserly or rich - I'm a puppet damn it!

My best compatriots have definitely come from interacting on this site. Only a couple gents have dared risk meeting in person outside of the net, but those who have have become fast friends. Most likely because we have a very secret life that begs to be shared.

But a smart friend once said - share with no one and deny, deny, deny. Since I've been stupid on the first tenent I can only hope to survive by the last.

Once again, LG provides an incredibily well thought and informative answer.

One thing that has helped me immensely, is that I have managed to make a few male acquaintances through a hobby related website.  After a few PM's, we exchanged emails, and now frequently chat on IM.  It's been a godsend to have developed a few friends like this to talk about thoughts, potential dates, post dates, and frustrations.  You can also get together if you have a meet and greet in your city.  It's actually kind of cool to meet the other guys, although you think it will be akward at first.   I have one chat room friend that I would consider as close as friend as any, but even more so because of the complete openess we can have in discussing any subject that so many males seem to have discussing with each other, but would really like to.  
T
here is no doubt about it, it's been a life saving and sanity saving experience to have such a friend.  So, look for other ways to find them yourself.

And to my friend.  I'm sure you know who you are, and I want to thank you publicly for all those times you supported me.  Cheers.

I've talked with a couple of friends about it.

One, I work with.  We don't socialize that often so, considering the only chance we have to talk about it is at work, we keep those conversations quiet and private.  And considering that we're both paupers, those conversations don't happen very often.

Another I used to room with.  Although we were a bit more open about it, even sharing names and websites, he was pretty adamant about not having any hobby-play going on at our place.  Sure, I believe in discretion with this hobby but it felt like he was giving in to the more conservative atmosphere.

Third guy I mentioned this to I also worked with. We'd only talk about it when we'd go out for breakfast after work.  All of his questions, though, revolved around "Aren't you afraid of catching a disease?"

Other than that, TER is my only outlet.  And, yeah, I do feel isolated but (shrug) that's also something I've felt most of my life, too.

I keep my hobby to myself because people by human nature talk. I don't need co-workers friends especially female friends knowing about my hobby.

I agree with what most people have said thus far.  I have no male or female friend I'd be at all comfortable telling about this hobby. As LG says, our culture still is influenced by our country's Puritan background (unlike Europe).

I did attend two Boston area "Meet and Greets", which had maybe 20-25 people there (mostly male). These were discretely arranged and, I found, very enjoyable. Have not kept in touch with anyone there, but maybe, if there's another one, I'll try to talk more with some people I met there before - perhaps we could keep in touch.  

It's very important to share our experiences.  The TER Boards are great.  But there should be something more, for all our sakes.

It's funny but I haven't told anyone about my experiences in the hobby but I will share High School and College rights ( so to speak ) .

The paradox is that I have made so many contacts on a personal level with the girls and have had experiences with them that will blow a man’s mind – however I must take them  to the grave.

You are not alone.  In fact you are joined by the majority of men who are able to engage in the hobby.

I have found that sharing with my favorite(s) providers has absolved the aloneness.  I do agree that in the hobby you can find yourself very alone if you are looking for something that the hobby cannot provide.  

It’s a double life in most cases.  Bragging rights as others have suggested are mere football fantasies.  We are older and men at our level are fulfilling other needs.  

I actually feel a bit isolated as well.  Perhaps there is something more we are looking for?

is don't talk about Fight Club.

But there are meat and greets that are organized
on various TER boards that you can participate
in.  Most, if not all, are arranged by hobbiers
and have nothing to do with TER per se.

-- Modified on 10/1/2006 12:39:26 PM

Only my wife knows, but that's pretty strange.

Infomike....please explain or are you joking?
Or is your wife OK with playing because she does not want to perform certain acts herself????

If you feel isolated, look for a guy who you can develop a trusting friendship.
How do you do that?
Keep looking at reviews of girls you're attracted to and you'll see some of the same guys after a while. Shoot the guy a PM. But be prepared, many guys are freaked or won't answer. Sooner or later, you'll get a response.
After information is shared both ways, you'll feel more comfortable and may even arrange to hang out for lunch, a drink or coffee.

This is how many private groups start out and there are many sub and mini groups here on TER.
And there are also other Internet boards and sites where guys meet others and share info.

These groups and boards are meant to have a place for sharing infot and be a place for building friendships and at the same time, offer some theraputic conseling.
Since what we do is looked upon by Society as wrong, yet the people who judge us are the real deviant sex freaks, we do have the need to hide and sometimes with shame.

Yet I believe almost everyone, male and female at one time or another has fantasized about patronizing a sex worker. To be in charge and get sexual fulfillment is always a fantasy and we are the lucky ones who've taken the step to act out a fantasy.

I've been very fortunate that I've met many guys who I can call for advice, just talk to and not be judged in any way except for maybe some friendly jealousy of some fun.
You need to give in order to get.
So, you need to develop relationships and trust with people. It's not going to be easy. But the rewards can be tremendous.
There's a huge underground of people out there.
There are girls that never advertise on any escort sites, malls or ever appear with reviews on TER. It's all word of mouth developed from a few guys to very secretive private boards.

I've been lucky and privy to many private boards. Information and chatting freely have been the pleasures of these boards. Getting info on girls who might catch your eye while driving, in a supermarket or shopping mall who you think were unattainable actually are. All of this info along wtih pictures behind closed doors.
It takes patience, perseverance and courage to open up, take a step to find the right individuals to get inside instead of being on the outside looking in.
I've made many friends from the "hobby" and we can share experiences.
My other friends, whom I've known for years do not know about what I do or share here. These are the ones that would truly be surprised and jealous if they would know the numbers of girls I've had fun with, the fantasies I've acted out. If I should die tonight or tomorrow and could reflect on the road I've taken in my sexual adventures, I'd have  died a very happy guy.  

RH

In many, many cases the ladies are feeling, at minimum, ten times as shut out as you all feel. As men at least, our society is VERY accepting of you having sex with multiple partners. As women, we are sluts and whores and temptresses and ::fill in the blanks::, even if we aren't providers but enjoy and have sex with many partners. Add the dimension of being a provider and we occupy not only the traditional "slut" category, but we reside in a few others that may and do shut us out from even our best friends, male or female, not to mention strangers.

Then imagine being a provider and trying to have relationships; after all, we need love and real intimacy, too. Most of us have to lie to any partner, new or old, about our profession. I decided two years ago upon going on a third date and telling the man (because by God, I was gonna be loved for my intelligence and character, etc.) what I do for a living. He slept with me that night but didn't take a single phone call from me or see me again after. I've since determined that until I'm out of this profession, I will have to remain single because I don't want to risk that sort of rejection anymore. But to be honest, I'm ready to settle down. I want to find or be found by the right man, I want to be in a serious loving relationship, and despite my occupation, I want to be someone's wife and legal family member. Someone who loves me and with whom I'm in love.

To fulfill that desire, I've spent the last two months looking for a job on which I can support myself but have yet to find one that pays enough after taxes without supplementing with a second job, legitimate or not. And I have a stellar job history and once made almost $60K a year in a different city doing the job I'm currently looking to obtain in my new city. So, wish me luck or if you're in Phoenix and need an executive assistant, I have 7 years' experience and I'd like to get to work. (sorry, long tangent there)

Thankfully, many of you are married and have life partners so you need not be concerned about acceptance on that front because you have it already and your wives are the last people you would consider telling about your side activities. Just as thankfully I have great, open-minded, non-judgmental friends who all know what I do for a living and accept me and listen to my stories and let me blow off steam.

This isn't an easy lifestyle for anyone involved on either side. However, I do think it's easier for the men to deal with the lack of anyone with whom to discuss this lifestyle. While you may be breaking the law, typically people don't look at you like a dirty criminal whereas the providers are looked upon that way. You guys aren't involved in the hobby daily or weekly, necessarily. It's not part of the fabric of your lives in that it isn't your sustenence. Ideally, everyone should have a best friend with whom they can discuss ANYTHING. If you don't, you don't have a best friend, or at least a very useful one in my opinion.

Perhaps I ought to purchase some space and start a private message board set up similarly to this board for friends of the hobby to feel interconnected safely, just to have others to turn to with anything and everything, without censorship to feel supported and less isolated. Definitely without reviews or advertisements or any of the stuff that usually causes arguments. Perhaps an entire site set up in the same vein as this very board where there are no fights or arguments or disagreements or judgments or pain/suffering inflicted on others. I'll consider it and see how difficult it'd be to do it. If anyone wants to contribute their web building abilities, I'm happy to finance it. Just get into touch with me at [email protected]. I think it's something someone needs to do based on this thread alone.

Anyhow, sorry for rambling but thank you for listening and please know that while I suspect there are many, many other providers who feel the same as I, I want to voice my sorrow that any of you feel so shut out and shunned by those around you. I'm sorry there are so many of you who have absolutely NO ONE to share this part of yourself with. Maybe I can get this message board off the ground and start something beautiful and loving for all of us with someone's web design and programming help. It's something I'd really like to do because I really have grown to love, in many respects, every single one of my clients. We do have much in common, afterall and we are sharing the most intimate parts of our bodies and brains with one another.

Love,

Andi Ryan

Andi:

I do understand there can be isolation and loneliness...but there doesn't have to be.
Everyone does put up walls of isolation for fear of hurt and rejection. Look for someone to trust, going slowly and soon you'll find that person who can help.  

check your mail box,  sent you an e-mail.

RH

All of my friends know I spend time here and at other such sites, they know I meet with both men and women from these sites, and that I have friends that I have made here, both clients and ladies.

Maybe it is because I don't have much connection to my family (parents both dead and siblings have their own families) so I have friends and I share pretty  much everything with those friends...Hell, even my boss knows about my connections here.

(one rather funny occurance was when a retired lady that my boss knows met me on another site...I didn't know she was the lady my boss knew, and she didn't know for whom I worked but an exchange on that message board caused an "uh oh" moment as we realised our "Worlds had Collided"...so in a PM I have her ask if I work for [insert boss' name here], and at almost the same time my boss calls me and refers to me by my user name on that site....hehehehhe)

I am single, I have no romantic attahcments to anyone, I don't date, my dog doesn't make any moral judgements...so I have no real reason to hide anything I do from my friends.  Not all of them understand or like my invovlement, but they accept it.

I've never talked about this with any male friends. I've become distantly acquainted with a few TER people but not friends. I don't feel compelled to talk about this - it is what it is, I derive net pleasure from it, and one way or another, we all pay for it!

I have told two people about this: my current girlfriend, and my previous girlfriend. I ended my one and only marriage with a long spell of no sex, pretty good money, and lots of business travel, so one thing led to another - I had opportunities for affairs, but until it was completely over I didn't want to jeopardize what little chance there was at reconciliation, and I felt that professional help was in order.

In each case, the girlfriend was non-judgmental and curious about my past (knowing that pre- and post-marriage I was pretty active). They each wanted to know the story and situation about providers, accepted the honest truth, and because I was honest, I believe they were more trusting of me.

I think this sharing probably worked out well - honesty is the best policy with your friends (as long as they're not LE) and kids, too. In each case with my girlfriend, I knew or thought I might be taking a risk, but probably the risk was greater if I kept a lie.