I always say hello and use their name if it's obvious. Otherwise, Hello Miss. Start by responding to something they said or you liked about their profile, NOT their looks. Make it clear you read and understood what they said. Only then do I say you look lovely. Then I say I love the big age gap, hope you do too. Finally, I ask them to view my profile and lmk if they think we'd be a great match. That's more or less it, fine tuned for each individual.
So I've finally decided to give sugaring another try. I signed up for Seeking, but I am not getting a lot of replies. Could someone who has had some success on the site give me an idea of what you are saying in your initial contact with the ladies to get a reply? I know it's a numbers game, but I'm not getting much of anything. Help!
What are you saying?
I always say hello and use their name if it's obvious. Otherwise, Hello Miss. Start by responding to something they said or you liked about their profile, NOT their looks. Make it clear you read and understood what they said. Only then do I say you look lovely. Then I say I love the big age gap, hope you do too. Finally, I ask them to view my profile and lmk if they think we'd be a great match. That's more or less it, fine tuned for each individual.
Thanks. That's pretty close to my approach (although I didn't think of bringing up the age gap). I'll fine tune it and keep at it.
I've tried all kinds of reach outs. I always try to address something in their profile to make it personalized. I do a brief introduction about myself. I let them know I am looking for a mutually beneficial relationship. Previously I've used 'Traditional SB/SD relationship' but that gets flagged now so more dancing around.
Over many months I've tried many different approaches but it does not seem to matter, about 80% won't respond. The ratio of responses to sends has gotten worse in recent months. I suspect that there are far fewer genuine SB's on the site nowadays than there were a year ago, thus making it a nearly impossible uphill climb. It still works, but you have to reach out to a LOT of profiles to get any response that will result in an actual SR so it's a lot of mining.
This is my own experience. I'm reading posts from other SD's that seem to indicate a much higher hit rate than I am getting, so your mileage may vary. It also depends on how picky you are. If you don't mind below average looking girls your hit rate will be higher but you have to ask yourself is it worth it.
First off, women are vain. Start with saying they are beautiful. Not lovely. And don't mention the age gap. Both make it sound like you are their grandpa.
Go straight into if you are just looking for casual or potentially long term. Then ask a question about them that isn't too personal.
That's it. Let them respond. It will not make every girl reply. Tons of flakes. Plus some girls just get overwhelmed and don't reply.
First of all, go with what works for you. So no disrespect intended NN, but I always mention the big age gap. There's no point in trying to hide or dance around the fact that I am older than most other SDs on Seeking, and WAY older than the girls I want to date. Might as well own it! And here's the fascinating fact: There's a small minority of girls who have replied by telling me their lifelong fantasy was to get together with a very old guy! Their kink and mine are a perfect match. And there are many more who simply don't care, they truly want to be treated nicely regardless of a guy's age or looks. So I play to my strengths. You do you.
Now I'm curious....how old are you?
I'm 78, and having more fun at this point in my life than I ever imagined would be possible! My #1 SB and I have an age gap of 54years! (she's 24) Rn I'm chatting up a girl with whom the age gap is 59 years. Yup, she's 19. If I get BCD with her, you'll def hear about it!
Both have worked to some degree for those who presented them.
Now you need to experiment over a large sample size (we are talking about at least DOZENS, not just a few) and see what works for you.
Here's some tips on message construction, regardless of the content:
1. Keep it relatively short. POT's get lots of messages, don't make them read for 15 minutes.
2. Make your point early. Whatever your main point is (long term, casual, go out or stay in, etc.) get to the point before she loses interest.
3. Use key words from her profile. This is very much like getting your resume read by job recruiters. They need to see the relevant qualifiers in your message within 3 seconds, or they will pass. Those qualifiers are likely in her profile text.
4. Be warm, conversational, and relevant. No typos, grammar issues, no slang or references prior to 2000 (before she was born).
5. Humble and confident, rather than arrogant and dismissive. Submissives want to give up control to someone they trust, not someone who projects like he may be abusive or uncaring.
Above all, keep trying. When we say this is a numbers game, it's some large numbers. It is typical to go through up to 100 profiles to find 20 that you want to message (or who message you). Of that 20, 5 may reply. Out of 5 replies you may get a M&G with 2 or 3. Out of 3 M&G's you may convert to one or two BCD's.
Worth it? Hells yes!
Life is good
The Cat
...did I say numbers? haha
From your end there will be two: your age. If less than 50 you are good-to-go, more, then you will have to compete (i.e., most girls will ignore you). Secondly, your net worth: if you want the hot babes it's going to take serious resources.
From her end: if she's just average, probably will get a hundred or more messages....the hot ones: 200-300 with the super hot: >500.
I'm convinced that, at least the first message, it doesn't matter what you say so as long as it's not creepy or overly brief. She would have already sized you up from your photos and whether you project wealth.
For us older guys, it's like Herb mentioned: contact a 100, maybe 20 message you back and if lucky 1-2 jump in the sack with you.
This having been said, quite often a girl will reply that she picked me bc I seemed honest and genuine...so that should be the theme of your communications.
I'm in my mid 60's. Those averages Euro-Guy mentions are pretty much consistent with my own experience as well. About 1-2 BCD's result from out of roughly 100 reach outs. Lately my averages have been in the 1 range. The good news is that out of those few successful BCD's, some will be keepers, so there is the very real potential of these initial BCD's turning into regulars, at least for 3-8 months. As Herb points out, is it worth it? Considering the alternative, HELL YES! Even though it's a slog, the juice [so far] has been worth the squeeze.
Minty, I'd recommend you keep a running log, as I do, of each POT you reach out to, and the result. Date [month-day] them, number them. Then you can track your results with better accuracy. I take notes on each one that answers and sometimes what they say and how I responded.
Most POTS won't reply, some will send a one or two word text, some will engage only to ghost. Some you'll get to the offline text, and the above will happen all over again. You might also try some of the different approaches for introductory texts, as Herb suggests. In this way you can gauge which openings, if any, work better than the others on average.
You can count on about 1-2 BCD's per 100 reach-outs unless you are doing it wrong, but those BCD's will take time to develop from initial text to a phone convo, even a video call, and then to an M&G. After all that, the M&G may end up resulting in nothing as well, she may flake out or no-show, or you may have the M&G and one or both of you may decide the vibe isn't right or the look isn't what either of you expected. All of the above also contingent on aligning on price, sexual preferences, and a whole list of other check boxes.
It's amazing it even works at all when you think about it!
I've started to get a few responses and have even texted with a few. I just don't get these young girls. I'll be texting with them, then they'll just stop responding. No "gotta go" or "I'll get back to you later." Just nothing... then several hours later, they'll pick up the conversation as if no time has passed. Kids are strange these days.
One young lady responded to me online and after a few bits of small talk on the website, I gave her my number and she texted me. Her first text was "I'm seeking $XXX ppm. It was a high ask, and I offered something more reasonable that was half of her ask. She immediately accepted and wants to meet Sunday. She has never asked anything about me or even requested to see my pictures. Makes me a little suspicious.
Your Spidey senses should generally be trusted. POT's who agree too fast to low-ball offers, or without discussing any specifics on boundaries or conditions can be doing so because they never intend to actually meet you. So they will agree to almost anything to "set the hook" and start to reel you in.
Here's what you need to watch:
1. Before the agreed meeting, she will ask for a "reasonable" amount of money in advance. Her stated reason could be almost anything but will typically be all about making herself more attractive FOR you or to make sure she can get to the meet. Examples include things like $75 for hair or nails, $50 for gas, $125 to fix a flat tire or other car issue, $150 for a new, sexy dress or lingerie, etc. Once you send that cash, she will ghost you, probably block you. If she really thinks you are a stuck fish on the line, she will make an excuse for not showing up. She won't give you that excuse until 1 hour to 3 days after the scheduled time. And if you agree to let the no-show slide, she will ask for more before the rescheduled day and time. aka Wash, Rinse, Repeat.
2. Sometime between 2 hours before and if she doesn't show on time, perhaps up to 2 hours after she will tell you that you are really sweet and sexy, but she really has to have her original ask just to "be able to keep her self-respect." This means she is not negotiating in good faith and is counting on your little head to over.
3. She will show up and at first, will be agreeable and personable. But soon after she will lay down her limits. And those limits will be severe. She may flip the script and say something like "Oh that amount I agreed to was just to meet. I'm going to need (amount x 2, 3, up 10) of we are going to have sex."
4. She will innocently ask if her cousin, sister, roommate, etc. can join the meeting for her "safety." Whoever she says that person is, it's really her pimp, criminal accomplice, or worse. And that person is not there for your benefit. Plus one or both may be armed.
Recommendations:
1. NO MONEY IN ADVANCE! NO MONEY IN ADVANCE! NO MONEY IN ADVANCE! NO MONEY IN ADVANCE! I say this 4 times because it is 400% more important than any other item.
2. Pick a place for your initial meet in a PUBLICV place, like a Starbucks (my go to for Meet & Greets). Get there at least 15-20 minutes early so you can park where you can see your car. Then pick a table that allows you to see the entrance of the business and ideally you can see her car when she arrives. When you spot her car, check out who is driving. If it's not her - problem unless it's obviously an Uber.
3. If she is under 25, after you have chatted for a bit, tell her you'd like to see her ID to ensure she is of age, and if you are comfortable, offer to show her yours. If possible, get a pic of her ID and do the math on her DOB. This one can be nuanced, as many SB's and SD's desire discretion and anonymity. Again, trust your Spidey Senses. If any of her "story" sounds contrived or deceptive, asking for ID may push any red flags into the open. (Offer to have her block her address where that makes sense.)
4. Assuming you made it this far, take some time to quietly discuss activities and boundaries. Ask her what she likes and what makes her uncomfortable. This is part of the informed consent process and can avoid BIG problems. You don't want to deal with any accusations later when she claims she never consented to something.
None of this is meant to scare you off. Instead, these tips will protect you and your money, if not your time. And yes, every single one of these I learned the hard way - sometimes the very hard and expensive way.
I'm guessing nothing I've said is a surprise to you. But it's always a good idea to review and refresh your safety protocols.
Life is good
The Cat
I appreciate the wisdom, Herbtcat. She hasn't asked for anything yet, but there will be zero dollars in advance. That's a hard and fast rule I will never break. I'll have a hotel room ready but I am going to suggest we meet first in a public place and that after that meeting either of us is free to walk away. I want to make sure she is as attractive as her photos, of age and that she fully consents to progressing further. She's already told me some of her boundaries. She prefers condoms for penetration (fine by me at least for starters) and no anal (not my thing anyways).
What I gather so far is that she just needs money and this is the quickest way to get it. Not any definite red flags yet, just my usual suspicious nature.
I second what Herb has said about vetting precautions. They may seem a bit extreme but these lessons have all been hard learned. There are many thieves and liars in this game, but thankfully there are many genuine SB's. I would add to the list of procedures that personally I avoid doing the BCD on the same day as the initial M&G.
This cuts down on the chance of a cash and dash or you getting robbed. A true SB will be fine waiting a fw days or a week before starting an arrangement and it gives both of you a chance to reconsider. True, it can work against you and she might change her mind. However, I am looking for a regular thing, not a bang and bail, so your needs/methods may vary from mine.
I really prefer more of a dating vibe than a quick hookup and sugaring allows this in many delightful ways. But there are also sugar escorts that walk the line between the two and those are the ones I try to avoid. If she wants to jump into the sack too quickly you might have a sugar escort on your hands.
Most genuine SB's are very cautious and selective before hopping into bed, at least in my limited experience. If she's that quick to jump into bed with you, there is a decent chance she may be doing the same with others. Over time once trust is established you'll get a better sense of her exclusivity with you, if that is what you seek.
I won't invalidate anyone else's experience on BCD on 1st meet, but here's mine.
Every single one of my sugar relationships has begun with pussy on the first date (with her option to bail if she's just not feeling it). So the idea that a good SB won't give it up on the first date does not square with my experience.
I set up the expectation of BCD on first date because I sugar on the road and I don't have days and days and weeks to get her into the bed. I'm getting ready to fly somewhere else. My presentation to her is: I am an important businessman who is making money when I am not enjoying time with a lovely girl. I travel all the time, I know what I want, and I have a narrow window of time if she wants to take advantage of it. No time for dancing around "three date rule" or whatever. If she is ready to be a sugar baby, then she needs to act like she is ready to be a sugar baby. She puts herself in my care and follows my lead and she will find what she can brag to her girlfriends about.
Rockford
When you're traveling and have limited time, your approach makes perfect sense. I've had success with it myself. I've set up dates with girls in advance of trips to distance cities many times. I don't use the "important businessman" approach, cuz that's not me, but otherwise, the approach is the same. I ask them if they are open to entertaining an out of town visitor, tell them my available time will be very limited, give them a date and time I'd like to meet, make it clear I expect a playdate at my hotel, and see if they respond enthusiastically. I generally only try this with girls who have said something in their profile to indicate they might be up for it, like "ready to meet tonight", or "immediate fun" or, "here for the same reason you are", or "ok with short term" which are actual quotes from profiles. You might say that these girls are actually utr escorts, but that's ok with me!
All the above info and suggestions are valid. I just want to point out that sometimes, everything aligns, and it goes quite fast.
step1. make contact onsite
step2. move to texting offsite
step3. meet irl for a M&G
step4. go BCD and have fun!
step5. repeat step 4!
This entire process can take time, but sometimes it all happens within a week or even less.