I've posted something similar on this issue before but this is different. If you remember I live in LA and I've been chasing the young set , 18-24. They message very sporadically. I send a girl a text saying "Let's get a drink." She doesn't message me for a week, then I get a text "When are you available?" I wait 20 minutes (so it looks like I'm a busy guy) before sending off "Friday at 8:30. Is that good?" (Friday is two days away, btw). I never hear back from her. I just cannot get them to the meet and greet. Sporadic e-mails all the time...i try not to answer them right away so not to seem like an eager puppy dog, but I'm thinking now that may be the way to go. They are probably going down a list texting 20 guys and the one who answers first, they go with. But then I think, why would they do that? If they all claim to be looking for a connection, the right guy (except the pros...and i feel I can spot the pros now), then don't they want to gather as much information as possible before actually meeting. Meeting people takes time and is a hassle...don't you want to increase your chances of success. Even a 20-year-old should know that.  

and the second issue, along with the above... Is that often I'll say let's go get dinner. they agree. We set up a time. then they say,,,"just dinner?"  and I say "I'm hoping we end up in a hotel but I want to see if we're a match. and sometimes, the girl who shows up to dinner doesn't look at all like her photos. i just don't want to jump to conclusions. But I really hope we do end up at a hotel. " then they ghost. they don't respond to any more texts. So I'm thinking of answering the  " just dinner?"  question with a simple  "dinner and a hotel."   or rather than asking them to have dinner with me....just ask " why don't we have dinner and get a room?"  I'm trying to be the honest, stand up guy but it's not working. Just want to get them to the fucking meet and greet.  Sweetman, GAga, CDL, and all the others...edify me.  

So I had two dates setup with two young ladies. One's roommate's dog got sick and didn't show up, the other cancelled the last minute. I finally set up another date with a 26 year old French girl.  She lived in WEst Hollywood, I booked a hotel in Marina del rey. I told her this, she said okay. for those of you who don't know...it's probably a 40 to 45 minute drive between the two. I picked her up at 7:35. We didn't get in to the room until 8:40. Then she told me she needed to be home by 9:30. basically, she was going to give me 20 minutes. I cancelled the date and took her right home. What the fuck is that? I wo0uld love to say that this was the exception to the rule, but really most of the dates I've had from SA have been this way. The only ones who seem to have a clue are the semi-pros and I find most of them to be foreigners...Europeans, south americans. Thoughts?

First of all, a "French" girl living in West Hollywood probably has a dick.  So it might be a blessing that you didn't get naked with her.  

 
Second, you didn't say what your arrangement was.  Its impossible for people to offer any kind of analysis from their own experience without more info from you.  Was this P4P (a hooker) or a SB?  Where did you find her, a proprietary ad/website just for her, or a website of women seeking arrangements?  Did you have a coffee meet first?  Why, why not?  Did you discuss how long the dates/meetings would be?  What was the rate you agreed on?  Why would you choose a hotel so far away for a first date?  There are plenty of decent hotels within ten minutes of West Hollywood?  If you want help from the board, you have to tell us all of the relevant facts.  

The arrangement was for 500. I met her on SA. I did not meet first. It was someone I contacted six months ago and I'm sure I asked her to meet & greet then, but my guess was, at that time, she just wanted to negotiate price via text. We did, she said 600..i didn't contact her for a few months and when i did, we settled on 500. I chose that particular hotel because  I have been there before. That was my mistake. Honestly, when I have had dates with the ladies from SA, they usually go 3 to 4 hours. That's where we're saving money right? with the length of time. I did discuss the length of time but she forgot. it was probably two weeks earlier we had discussed how long the date would last. But she forgot and I had to remind her. but she didn't care. Honestly, if I go two or three days without contacting a girl, the young ones will forget who I am. They'll ask for picture again. I want to tell them to scroll up and read our conversation but I'm guessing they're just talking with too many guys. I get the young ones asking for 800, 900. I try to negotiate but they just blow me off. I got the one I mentioned in earlier post down to 700 but she was a no show.

have been pretty darn excellent.  First of all I always assume the 18-20 year olds are inexperienced about not just sugar dating, but about everything!  I am always totally honest with them about my intentions and goals.  No point wasting time chatting up a girl who wants platonic only.  I always offer to meet for coffee or lunch first.  Never dinner! mid day meetings just seem more casual and easy going.  I don't like dating after dark anyway, just feels creepy to me. I've got one splendid regular right now who just turned 20 and was 19 when we started dating.  And 2 others who are just 18! All three of these began with a nice easy conversation over lunch with an agreement to meet BCD next time. Which is what I did with all 3.

One thing that has worked for me is that I check the newest profiles in my area every day.  when I spot one I like I want to be the first guy who messages her, not the 50th. Jumping in quick seems to result in getting their attention.  Also, as many of you know, I don't use hotels.  Again, I think taking a girl to a hotel feels creepy.  I use my RV for dating 99% of the time.  I've been teased on this board about that, but guys, the girls love it.  Last time I met one of my 18 yo SBs we met in a Target parking lot, had a great time in bed, then we went into the store for a Starbucks coffee and said our goodbyes since she had some shopping to do.  Worked out great all the way around.  

I don't worry too much about how much time we spend.  Sometimes this girl wants to go out for a meal with me, sometimes not.  Same thing with my 20yo.  Sometimes we have lots of great conversation as well as sex, other times not.  Actually my other 18yo just likes to show up get laid and get paid.  Which is fine with me.  I give them $200 ppm and spend maybe $40 on gas for the RV.  Plus coffee or lunch if that's involved.  Sometimes I spend 3 hours with them, sometimes less than one.  It's all good.

I don't know exactly why you have had so much frustrating flaky behavior from the young SBs.  Yeah some of them are immature and more than a little BSC, but some are really fantastic young women I'm privileged to hang out with.  Just gotta sift through the poor prospects to find the few gems.  One more thing then I'll stfu; I had lunch with a really cute petite 18yo about a week ago.  We really hit it off and she said I was the first man on SA who seemed honest, genuine, and not a creep or a scammer.  (I get that a lot actually!)  She was so motivated to meet that she drove 50 miles to have lunch with me.  We agreed to go BCD next time, but she cancelled, said some things popped up she had to deal with.  So maybe this one won't pan out. But it's no big deal, there's more fishies in the sea.  Keep fishin, you'll find your ideal young SB sooner or later!

I bought something on Craigslist a while ago and was asked to meet up at a public place. It occurred to me that the location had surveillance cameras, lots of people traffic, etc.. It actually made me feel safer than if I had been asked to meet in a private place.  From all the news articles that cross my normal newsfeeds (Woman charged with murder after dropping her infant during a fight in a parking lot - caught on tape!
http://www.crimeonline.com/2019/07/23/disturbing-video-murder-charges-for-mom-who-dropped-3-month-old-baby-in-parking-lot-to-fight-another-woman-cops/  ; Shoplifter arrested in Target parking lot - caught on tape!; Man charged with assault in Walmart parking lot - caught on tape!), I wonder if it makes your SBs also feel more comfortable getting "private" in such a public place. (After BCD, SB finishes her shopping at Target and drives home. Nothing happened - caught on tape anyway!)  
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I am also wondering ... one of those pickup truck - camper combos or a luxury Winnebago?

-- Modified on 8/5/2019 5:25:54 AM

There was a guy in the news, (and discussed on this board) a while back who was busted for seeing an underage girl he found on Seeking. Part of the proof against him, besides the girls testimony of course, was the hotel cameras catching the two of them entering a hotel room together and exiting about an hour later. That was the final nail in his coffin and I am pretty sure he is languishing in prison this very moment.

 
OTOH, security footage can prove your INNOCENCE if the SB you saw in the afternoon ends up getting murdered later than night if you can show LE solid proof that when you last saw her she left safe and sound. I know this sounds far fetched, but keep in mind that a lot of SB, just like a lot of hookers, live some rather varied lives, a lot of them are into drugs and obviously they are seeing men BCD, some of whom may not have the best of intentions. A little video evidence will go a long way if one of your SBs gets herself in trouble on the same day that you see her.

I wrote on tise board a few months ago on how to handle the "negotiation" early on.   If you do this, it may make things easier for you.  

 
I think your problems could be lessened if you repeat everything you discussed with her before and make sure you are on the same page if it has been more than a week since you last talked to her.  Some of these girls talk to hundreds of guys a month, so the likelihood that she will remember what you discussed six months ago is between slim and none.  If you confirm everything a day before the meeting, you won't have to worry about what she "forgot."  You just tell her straight that you will pick her up at 7:00 and return her at 11:00 and the donation will be $500.  If she has a problem with any of that, she will tell you then.  If she renegs when getting in the car (in other words, as you drive away she says she has to be back in two hours or less), then just turn around and take her back.  Don't pay her and tell her to contact you when she is able to make an agreement that she can stick to.   Then start looking for someone else.  

 
The key is for YOU to have control of the relationship.  Once you give it to her, you will end up disappointed on some level.  Read my link below for a better understanding of getting control.  

Sweetman, I believe you live somewhere rural, correct? In LA, I just don't know if the price range you're talking about is possible. I pretty much exclusively search for girls under 30 with slim or athletic bodies. I'm basically chasing the hot instagram girl types. Wanna be models. Some are college students but they all charge 500 and over...and most of them do not host. And my impression is that they generally don't show up for meet and greets. The girl I ended up meeting was 29 and she showed up without first negotiating a price. But she is the exception to the rule. I have given up on the under 24 set for now. BAck to the kgirls. They just never disappoint.  
And you all went down a dark path with the security camera stuff. I love the idea of Sweetman in his RV hanging out in a Target parking lot. In fact, every time I see an RV parked anywhere I think of you...

that most of you would recognize if he joined the conversation has had great success in LA in the $250-300 range for multiple hour meetings. His searches on SA are focused and intense, not to mention time-consuming, but he was PM'ing me photos of the girls he was considering during his vetting stage, and he is getting some beautiful girls in their early 20's at this rate.  There is a lot of GPS on SA, so you just have to sort through them and be quick to eliminate the ones that are not on board with everything you want and how you want to do it.  For a couple of months, he was doing 4 to 6 coffee dates a week and still seeing 3 to 5 new girls (coffee meets at lunchtime and fuck meets at night).  Most girls were one and done (his choice, not theirs) until he found the right ones for a continuing arrangement.  The last I talked to him he had a 3-girl rotation that would be the envy of any monger.  

 
So the point from this anecdote is, don't settle for less than you want.  Keep looking until you find the right girl(s).  There are way more of them wanting our money than there are SD's to go around.   That makes it a "buyer's" market, and WE are the buyers.  

I wanted the smallest one that still had a permanent bed in the back that you didn't have to fold out every night.  It was an older RV that had barely been used, only 20k miles.  The interior was like new.  It has all the amentities, generator, a/c, microwave, nice bathroom, etc, etc. It was used and I got a very good deal on it.  I try to remember that fact every time I fill it up.  Guzzles gas like crazy, 8mpg!  Just yesterday I met one of my 18yo cuties in the RV, our 3rd BCD date and she didn't disappoint!  As we were getting dressed she commented on how nice it was in the RV.  The girls do seem to like it.

-- Modified on 8/7/2019 10:23:56 PM

But now that the subject has come up, I will look for them wherever I go.  I usually park the RV as far away from the store as possible,so as to avoid attention and to be discreet.  I can't imagine they surveil the entire acres of parking.  But maybe they do.  I'll look and see what I can see.

I live in a semi rural area I guess.  Which is why I usually am driving 50 miles to the city for my dates. The city is the biggest one in the state, so the prices there are more urban than rural.  But hey, it sure ain't LA or NY.  Otoh, I've been planning a trip to Phx later this month and browsing SA for some female companionship while I'm there.  Phx certainly qualifies as a big urban area.  Yet I've been able to schedule dates there who understand it's a one time thing and who asked for a modest 300.  So I think you can find SBs in any price range you prefer if you're willing to do your homework. I browsed zillions of profiles, favorited 100, sent messages to 60, got replies from 17, and have 2 dates "confirmed".  Yeah it's a process and I wont know until game time whether they show up!  But it sure is fun!

It’s also frustrating how many dead ends it leads to.  I was on it, now I’m off it.  Bigger cities cost more and since I can’t meet every day/ night for meet and greets have tried to negotiate via text.  There are thresholds that seem to hold in the bigger cities.  No way 200 will work for the pyt crowd. Maybe 400, 500 seems a clearing price.  No one can host, so city hotel prices can drive things up by 200/300.  So suddenly ur at 500/700 minimum, with massive frustration and disappointment to get there.  

Having said that, met one gal, it’s higher end but she is 26 and very pretty. Spent hours bar hopping with her and was great fun bcd.  So was that worth it, we shall see, but If you have a less flexible work life, a real family it’s very hard to juggle all this.  

Unless your name is Sweetman of course. lol

 
Speaking as a single guy though, the Sugar Bowl costs me maybe a third of what I used to spend on hookers and I get laid every bit as often without having to worry about being "on the clock"

 
I will agree that some cities command higher prices, but those same cities also command higher prices for hookers too, so the cost savings should still be proportionate. As a single guy I like to keep a rotation of about 5 different SB who I see anywhere from once or twice a week down to maybe just a couple of times a month. My goal is to not have to see the same girl more than a couple of times a week, but still get laid at least "most" days. A rotation of about 5 SBs seems to accomplish this nicely, I usually add a new SB or maybe two to the rotation each month to replace the one/s I lose to attrition.  

 
I think for a married guy who has to sneak out to do this, many of you will find that hookers are easier and actually LESS money, or for guys who don't need a lot of variety, finding just one or two SB's that you can see on a regular schedule rather than keeping a rotation like us single guys (And Sweetman) are able to do. If you are used to seeing a hooker every week for let's say $400 an hour, you could find yourself a nice SB who you connect with and see her every week for the same $400 but get a date of several hours instead of just an hour.

I would not even consider a SB arrangement.  From my own experience, even though there is money involved, most SB's tend to act like girlfriends rather than paid escorts, so you have to deal with what I call "reaffirmation texting" where they are constant selling you to keep you in the game.  Then there is the amount of time you spend with them that is social and not sexual.  For these two reasons, I would have to be suicidal to want to engage in these if I was married and had to worry about discovery.  We all have our own level of risk tolerance, but at this stage of my life (60 and counting) my level is not very high.  If fear of discovery outweighed my need to other pussy, I just wouldn't do it, and I would stick to escorts, which make no social demands on you at all if that is the way you want it.  

 
My hat goes off to married guys that can pull this off, but for me, it would take too much of the fun out of it worrying about the "nuclear option" of divorce and the loss of half of my accumulated wealth.  I became a widower about 12 years ago, so I have never had to actually address this question in reality.  Maybe I don't have the right perspective on what drives married guys to become SD's, and still enjoy all that goes with it.  If I was crawling into bed every night with a fat 60-year-old woman, I might look at it differently, but when my wife passed, she was still a 5-2, 104 lb spinner with a tight bod, so I never cheated during our 15 years of marriage.  

Not everyone marries for the same reason, and not every marriage evolves toward a more perfect union. Marriage is invariably a series of entanglements, seldom with a clean exit option.

That said, one time I found myself pounding away on a married woman (civie) in her matrimonial bed. It was the hottest sex ever.  There's just something who stroking about fucking another man's wife.

I sometimes wonder if SB's and escorts feel the same way. It's a bit of a Hollywood trope about certain women who have a string of affairs with married men.  They enjoy the idea.

I have had some women (both working girls and civvies) tell me they only date married guys, because they are "just looking for fun and don't want to do some boyfriend's laundry.  That's what a wife is for."    

I think most women who prefer married guys just like the fact that while he is married to someone else, they have no worries about him wanting to marry HER.  

 
I can't relate to getting a special thrill out of fucking another man's life like Lester, but I can relate to the women who feel "safe" that they guys they are fucking are already taken and won't be trying to marry them. I think it's one of the reasons I like hookers as GF's, an active hooker is so much less likely to demand monogamy, so much less likely to get possessive, and almost always have plenty of their own money, which actually makes a hooker LESS likely to be a gold digger once you are in a relationship with her than women who have other occupations.

 
As for laundry, I am more than capable of keeping myself fed and my clothes clean. lol

Slip in line 3!

8o)

I think that Doctor Freud gave up on TER users years ago.  
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He had some trouble with Anna, too.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=7WxDTEszGJQ
(couldn't find a version with video)

I do indeed keep a nice rotation of 5 or 6 going.  Just this weekend I had text messages from 5 who want my company and then one more who says she's returning from NYC and want to see me as well.  These 6 range from 18 to 24.  I don't have Gambler's stamina or energy, so my ideal is to visit each one every 2 to 4 weeks.  That keeps me supplied with 2 or 3 dates per week. Plus I'm always interviewing new candidates, searching for upgrades.  I know you're all probably sick of hearing me talk about my marriage, but I wish I could show you the sweet, sweet pictures I took two months ago of me, my wife, and my two favorite sugar babies enjoying lunch and conversation together at a restaurant.  The 3 women just loved it and loved meeting each other. (my wife already knew one of the girls but the other had met neither)  They all knew of each other so getting them all together to finally meet was wonderful.  We're all still talking about how cool it was.  So yeah, being married doesn't have to mean you have to sneak around.  Honesty and openness in a long term loving marriage is possible.