That the gentleman made - ie that the provider is routinely having sex with someone she otherwise would not choose to be with. I am sure that in many cases that may be true. But, (here comes anecdotal evidence'
), given the number of ladies that have expressed a desire to be with me and with a number of others "off the clock", perhaps this assumption is not quite so accurate as it may seem on first blush.... and "be with" does not necessarily mean, choose as a mate. Judging by the number of short term relationships of convenience I've had in my life, I think that women are quite as capable as men of taking opportunities where they find them. And perhaps more capable of appreciating and enjoying partners that vary from their ideal.
I have always assumed that providers do not experience a high level of sexual pleasure in the great majority of their professional encounters. Indeed, I usually roll my eyes reading TER reviews that so frequently relate that the lady experienced several orgasms during her tryst with the hobbyist, and marvel that these gentlemen are so clueless.
But maybe I am the clueless one.
In reading your provider study, I was quite surprised to see that 49% of the respondents reported their sexual satisfaction to be “very much above average.” In fact, I find this astonishing. Unlike the clients, providers do not get to choose the men they find physically appealing, or men they find appealing because of wealth power or status. Nor in the typical encounter does the provider have a relationship with the client that makes the sex more satisfying.
And the client who is paying by the hour can hardly be faulted if his focus is on himself and not on satisfying the lady. Further, using the reported 147 sexual partners a year as a guide, these ladies are having sex so frequently that I would have thought the frequency alone would have lessened the sexual satisfaction quotient.
So what is left? The pure act of sex itself with a man they hardly know and most likely would not choose in their personal life is giving them sexual satisfaction “very much above
average?”
Am I the only one surprised by this? Am I guilty of applying stereotypes re female sexual satisfaction? Am I projecting male sexual satisfaction criteria onto the ladies?
Yike- or maybe this says something about my own historical performance.
Or do we have false reporting here, or at least statistically meaningless reporting given the small (100) sample size?
What say you, Love Goddess?
-- Modified on 11/3/2008 8:54:43 PM
Well, marikod,
You need to read the limitations of the study. It will address the issues you are raising. I am not going to repeat them here, because they are described in great detail in their proper section. But I will say this, and that is that any statistician knows that a sample of 100 can work very nicely - the issue is whether or not the sample is representative, random, snowball, convenience, etc. To my knowledge, there has NEVER been a proper random sample of prostitutes used for attitudinal research. At this point, it's almost a standard disclaimer to mention convenience sampling in research involving prostitutes as active subjects. Funny you should ask though, since our current presidential polling has come into question in terms of "real" random sampling...all those young people with no landlines, etc. But that's a different issue.
I'm more interested in the comment of "rolling your eyes." Are you a provider or a hobbyist? I have some difficulty believing that you are a provider, because if you were - you might understand these providers' viewpoint a little clearer. And if you're a hobbyist - well then, welcome to the world of some stereotypes that may just not be as accurate as you previously may have believed.
The question in the study is not specifically asking about the sexual satisfaction related to, or derived from, having sex with particular people. It's simply asking the person to self-report on their sexual satisfaction. It could be that the women who report higher than average sexual satisfaction are masturbating (it sure looks like these women do a lot of it, according to the study). Or, they could be screwing their husbands, or their lovers, or their boyfriends. It doesn't ask what they feel about clients.
Go back and read the study again, and you'll see,
the Love Goddess
So the survey question went to their sexual satisfaction in general, as opposed to their sexual satisfaction with clients. Okay, that makes more sense. I can buy that high a percentage on the assumption that they have been talking about sex with chosen partners or self pleasure. But, if so, I cannot buy the inference you made:
"Drawing on this data, the inference can be made that ISSP are not coerced or unwilling in engaging sexually with a variety of unfamiliar sex partners. Contrary to stereotypical interpretations and depictions of prostitutes as uninterested in sex and incapable of deriving any enjoyment from their work, it appears that these respondents have a need to engage sexually both in dyadic situations and also through self-stimulation."
Unless the satisfaction rate is tied to their work, Love Goddess, this seems to me to be more speculation than a reasonable inference. It seems to me that you read the response the same way I did - at least in part - and used it to rebut the stereotype that they did not derive enjoyment from their “work.” (I never went that far – I just assumed that satisfaction with clients was the rare exception)
I would also have thought out that engaging in intercourse with 147 different males a year would dampen enthusiasm for frequent lovemaking with chosen partners or self pleasure. I mean, really, I would think sex/masturbation would be the last thing they would want to do in their free time, although as you pointed out they self reported high masturbation rates.
So notwithstanding my misreading, I think I still would interpret the response to cover professional encounters, and I still find the “very much above average satisfaction” rate remarkable.
But let me put it to you this way – if the question had been limited to sexual satisfaction with clients, would you as a professional in this field been surprised at this high a satisfaction rate?
Oh, and I am a guy by the way, clueless about women in general and providers and Love Goddesses in particular.
It's explained, marikod,
in such a way that the inference is DRAWING ON THIS DATA, not drawing on one particular question. In other words, when looking at THE TOTAL PICTURE - high sexual satisfaction, lots of sexual partners (which they themselves have calculated to be 800 something over a lifetime), engagement in many different sexual practices, it appears that they are NOT COERCED OR UNWILLING. Meaning that nobody forced them to get involved with so many partners - they did it on their own, not because they HAD to, but because they wanted to, on some level. These are middle-class women, not homeless crack victims. Also, I am indeed referring to the fact that they engage in self-stimulation and they like it (that's the masturbation part), as well as in dyadic situations (again, not necessarily paid sex, although a difference was not made between paid and unpaid sex). I also explain in the study that the questionnaire itself is a set instrument and not amended. Thus, some questions remain to be answered, and this is also in the last paragraph of the conclusion.
It's also obvious from the literature review in the beginning of the study that I am questioning the stereotype of the prostitute as someone who doesn't like sex and only does it for survival, when in fact, the study showed that many of the subjects enjoyed sex as UNCOERCED individuals with options [remember that several of the secondary professions were such that they could more than likely survive on just that job], and that combining business and pleasure was a successful combination for many of these ladies?
WHY IS IT SO DIFFICULT (for you, it seems) TO UNDERSTAND THAT HAVING A POSITIVE SEX LIFE IS AN IMPORTANT COMPONENT OF BEING A SUCCESSFUL PROVIDER ON TER?
This is a mystery to me, more than anything else. From what I am understanding when reading your postings, a prostitute should not enjoy sex, be very dissatisfied and really feel awful about her job? How can such a person be successful and have pages and pages of good reviews, with a strong presence on the Net?
All I can tell you is that you have a lot to learn about the women in this profession. Maybe hanging out with them, asking them questions, taking an interest in their lives, and reading posts on TER (such as you are doing now) will help you understand why studies such as this very modest one and above all, talking to the ladies directly is very important - if we are going to get away from stereotypes. But that's a whole different topic for a whole different thread.
And now ladies & gentlemen - time to watch the ushering in of the new president of the United States,
the Love Goddess
That the gentleman made - ie that the provider is routinely having sex with someone she otherwise would not choose to be with. I am sure that in many cases that may be true. But, (here comes anecdotal evidence' ), given the number of ladies that have expressed a desire to be with me and with a number of others "off the clock", perhaps this assumption is not quite so accurate as it may seem on first blush.... and "be with" does not necessarily mean, choose as a mate. Judging by the number of short term relationships of convenience I've had in my life, I think that women are quite as capable as men of taking opportunities where they find them. And perhaps more capable of appreciating and enjoying partners that vary from their ideal.
Gregory, so if that assumption is wrong it would skew the issue I m trying to explore.
From reading your many posts, I frankly do not think you are a typcical TER client and your incredible sensitivity to the ladies goes a long way to explaining their desire to be with you " off the clock.
Another big assumption here but I do not think that the average TER client receives many off- the-clock invitations.
still contradicts my experience for whatever that is worth. I've been in the lifestyle for over thirty years now. What I am asserting is "anecdotal evidence" based on my experience and observations.
But this is my critical point:
Women seem to be able to enjoy sex with men who do not fit their ideal in terms of appearance or wealth, with men they would not choose as a mate. Women seem to have a greater capacity for this than men do. I've been with very attractive women by most standards that did nothing for me and it showed in my level of performance and enjoyment. And providers seem to pick up on this really quick.
Notice the discussions on the board about providers with SOs - the ladies see nothing at all amiss with enjoying many partners but many if not most expect their SO to be "faithful".
This reflects in my experience how a majority of ladies in the industry seem to be wired.
The only reason that I am with my SO (a provider) is that she is not wired that way '
Cheers
Gregory
-- Modified on 11/4/2008 12:05:52 PM
Let's stick with the terminology used in the Provider Report- would the ladies rate their sexual satisfaction with their clients as a group in the "very much above average" range?
As to your "critical point" you are getting at what I am really interested in but which is premature to discuss at this point -viz., if 49% of the TER ladies truly find sexual satisfaction "very much above average" with their clients, what does that tell us about the factors that bear on their sexual satisfaction?
At a minimum it would suggest that the factor I have assumed is most important - the ability to choose your partner - is not that important to these ladies and that mere sexual act itself may be enough to give them satisfaction "very much above average."
I'm sure the Love Goddess is about to kick me off the Board for taking up so much space today so I am going to stop here.
Thank you for your thoughts.
First, thank you, Love Goddess, for taking the time to respond to my posts. I found your Provider Report to be fascinating and is one of the few tools I have to test my assumptions and stereotypes about a very small class of provider women, the escorts of TER.
Second, the very narrow issue I am exploring is the degree to which these providers experience sexual satisfaction WITH PAID CLIENTS. So the question you shouted
“WHY IS IT SO DIFFICULT (for you, it seems) TO UNDERSTAND THAT HAVING A POSITIVE SEX LIFE IS AN IMPORTANT COMPONENT OF BEING A SUCCESSFUL PROVIDER ON TER?
This is a mystery to me, more than anything else. From what I am understanding when reading your postings, a prostitute should not enjoy sex, be very dissatisfied and really feel awful about her job?”
is not an issue I am discussing at all. Nor have I ever made any of THESE assumptions. Obviously, a lady can enjoy sex with a chosen partner but find sex with her professional partners merely dull to tolerable on average (which has been my assumption). Further, the notion that the TER ladies are not “coerced or unwilling” to be escorts seems beyond dispute.
So LG I apologize for not making the narrow scope of my inquiry clearer in my posts. But your point that the inference I branded as "speculation" is a broader inference based on all the data is a fair answer to that comment.
I recognize that your study did not expressly address this issue and this may not be an issue in which you personally have a great (or perhaps any) interest.
But my assumption has been and remains that, if asked, the ladies’ sexual satisfaction with paid clients would not reach the above average level reported and would most likely fall in
the dull to tolerable range. This is why I “roll my eyes” at the common descriptions of ladies’ multiple orgasms in TER reviews.
Does it happen sometimes? Of course. Does it happen any where close to the number reported by the reviewers? My assumption is “no way.”
Why is your study of particular value to me in exploring this question? Because there is no other pool of information that I have seen. The ladies are not going to confess this to me personally. I assume they suspect that, if I thought they were not enjoying the sexual experience, it would decrease my enjoyment. And I do not have off- the-clock access to these ladies to discuss broader questions of their job enjoyment, so hanging out with them and talking is not a realistic option.
“All I can tell you is that you have a lot to learn about the women in this profession.” Yes, I think we are in agreement here. I’m just getting started....
My experiences have varied according to the level that I was hobbying at. When I used to pick up street walkers it was pretty obvious that it wa a mechanical approach to get me off as quickly as possible and get back to the corner...
When I started using classified ads and later the internet I also began to enjoy experiences that seemed a bit less mechanical though it still sometimes very disappointing.
When I finally stopped hunting for $150 Craig's List bargains and started paying the going rate for GFE ladies everything changed! The ladies that LG refers to as the "middle class" escorts truly are, for the most part, very good at their jobs and definitely enjoy sex.
It's important to understand the motivation of the smarter ladies in this business. Earning a living of course is paramount but you want a guy to want to see you again. For that to happen he has to truly enjoy himself. A woman who can't provide an enjoyable experience is not going to last long. Now, every guy wants something different and every woman will not be for every guy.
I've had experiences that were amazing and I've had experiences where I just didn't click with the lady. You here a lot of talk form guys on the boards here about their ATF's (myself included). Why do ATF's exist? Because we have found a gal that really lights our fire and we want to keep seeing her and enjoying the great sex. Both of my current favs used to be strippers a long time ago. Both did pretty well and never had to have sex with anybody to make pretty decent money. Both drifted into escorting and both have told me that they like it better because there is more honesty in it.
I have found that the women who are really good at this also have a pretty low tolerance for bad men. They may see a guy once who turns out to be too rough or disrespectful but it will only be once.
Maybe I've been spoiled by my favs and the great ladies before them but I've never had any trouble believing that most successful providers truly enjoy the sex. In my view it's really a double standard to assume that they can't. If we men can pick up the phone and call a total stranger to come over and get us off why is it so hard to fathom that she may actually enjoy the experience beyond getting paid for it. Remember, what you are really paying for is her availability.
But let me fine tune your conclusion as applied to me.
"Maybe I've been spoiled by my favs and the great ladies before them but I've never had any trouble believing that most successful providers truly enjoy the sex. In my view it's really a double standard to assume that they can't. "
I certainly do not assume that most TER escorts "cannot enjoy the sex" but my assumption is that, using the report's 147 partners a year figure, the great majority of providers would report sexual satisfaction from this group in the "dull to tolerable" range range rather than the "above average" range.
And I do not think that in general the client's perception of their enjoyment level is likely to have great accuracy. That is why I discount the perceptions in the TER reviews and find the Provider Report of such great interest, even though this inquiry may well brand me in the minds of many as a sexual Neanderthal.
I would be delighted to learn otherwise.
Years ago I read, in Masters & Johnson I believe, that long term professionals are prone to remaining at pre-orgasm arousal levels for several hours in a working day. The consciousness of working can impede the orgasm until she can relax enough to relieve the tension, either with SO or on her own. That may have always been BS or just more so with independents and the internet since that was written. But the reported satisfaction level isn't surprising to me at all and it doesn't mean just satisfaction with the clients.
I fully accept the fact that some of the orgasms I think my professional partner has had are fakes. I choose to believe, though, that these women know their bodies pretty well and know what positions, touches, activities will bring them off and they figure out how to get them while getting me off.
That is why the post is entitled the Provider Report and Sexual Satisfaction. The PR is the first scientific study I have seen that allows me to test my unscientific assumptions on this issue, if but but only if, the sexual satisfaction levels reported would be the same if only client encounters are considered.
We have moved beyond whether the satisfaction level in the PR was intended to apply only to client encounters. The Love Goddess has explained that I misread that.
Interesting, however, that you do not find the reported satisfaction level surprising as I do.
"And I do not think that in general the client's perception of their enjoyment level is likely to have great accuracy."
I am only speaking for myself here but really dude, I've been around for a while. I know when a woman is faking it. These ladies are not really all that good at acting.
Now, some guys definitely see what they want to see and some insist on writing reviews that feature their studly veracity more than actual fact. LOL, some guys just like to brag I guess. IMHO, none of this means that the lady isn't enjoying the sex. My ATF loves oral sex. In fact, she prefers it. She can't even remember the last time she had a vaginal orgasm and she has NEVER had one as a provider. Nevertheless she has review upon review of guys claiming that they brought her to orgasm in doggie or cowgirl or whatever...Did she lie to them? No. Did she fake it and scream "I'M CUMMING" at the top of her lungs? No. In fact she has told me that guys really never ask her if she came or not. The truth is they don't really want to know. Now, all of this being said, she still enjoys the sex. Intercourse isn't painful for her, in fact it feels quite good, she just doesn't O that way.
Now there is a bit of a disclaimer here. My gal enjoys the sex MORE when it is a two way street and the guy is actually enjoying HER and not using her as a vagina for rent. I'm quite certain that if you asked most of the ladies who do this for a living they would tell you the same thing.
As the post says, I am only discounting "in general" the client's perception. I would not presume to speak as to any individual who may be sophisticated enough to read the situation correctly.
"The truth is they don't really want to know."
That would be my guess also.
I would also discount in general the lady's report to her client. Too much incentive to misreport there -that's why the PR is of such value.
I can only speak from my experience. Honestly, I don't come to TER looking for information other than the provider reviews. I come here to have a little fun. More often than not I find that the words and thoughts of others, for better or for worse, simply reinforce what I already know about providers and clients...men and women. The truths, the stereotypes, the myths, the realities and everything in between are all confirmed on the pages of TER for me every time I log on.
It's very easy to take a factual report and call the results into question simply by saying you THINK that people who participated in the study were less than honest in their input. Honestly, If I were questioned anonymously I would have no reason to lie and my hunch is that most folks wouldn't. Be that as it may there will always be studies and there will always be folks who don't agree with the results based on their own beliefs.
That's probably why I don't read studies.
I don't begrudge anyone their opinion on this stuff but as long as I've got a few good women as favorites and we can enjoy our time together I'm ultimately not all that interested in the minutia of how or why it's fun.
-- Modified on 11/4/2008 5:40:18 PM
believe it or not, some of us are more than willing to be open and honest about such topics.
i am by no means the "typical" provider...being submissive and advertising myself as such (submissive as in personality, not bdsm bottom or masochist), being very low volume and selective, and approaching this as more of a calling and a hobby than a business.
the number of sexual partners i have in a year...in and outside the hobby combined? the average would be less than 50. do i enjoy sex with clients? many many times, yes of course. i enjoy serving men, i enjoy being used as a tool for their relaxation, stress and tension release, pleasure. unlike the providers BostonGuy has known, i do NOT enjoy those clients who are concerned with or focused on trying to please me in any way...because of my submissive nature, that dynamic is very awkward and uncomfortable for me, and i do my best to avoid those types.
i have never and would never fake anything with a client...i do not writhe in ecstasy or pretend to orgasm, and if asked about it i will not lie. but i am not a woman who needs (or even desires) an orgasm or anything of that sort in order to find a sexual experience immensely satisfying. it is all about the chemistry, and i am fortunate to have great chemistry with many of my clients. this is because i am so selective, and do get to know gentlemen before agreeing to meet. it is not as if we must bear any and everyone who shows an interest...then again, perhaps that is the way some providers operate. but personally i could never imagine such a thing. if there is no chemistry there, no connection of any kind, then i will not go forward with the process and will not meet a particular gentleman. or, if after the first experience it is clear that something is just off, the relationship will be ended then and there and there will be no second encounter.
Lilli.
The question that I have tried to isolate in these posts - with limited success - is whether the "very much above average" sexual satisfaction rate reported by 49% of the respondents in the Provider Report is comparable to the what they would have reported if the question had been limited to encounters with clients.
"Why not just ask us?"
First, the response of any individual provider would only give us her view and we would have no way of knowing if it was representative of the 1200 or so registered TER providers.
Second, there is no way to eliminate the bias factor in this approach. If I posted this inquiry on the General Discussion Board, responding providers would have an obvious incentive to give inaccurate information. If the true answer is - as I have assumed - sexual satisfaction from clients falls in the dull to tolerable range - that would be bad for business to acknowledge publicly. Indeed, such candor is not part of the girlfriend experience is it?
Third, as the Love Goddess suggested, talking directly with ladies might give more reliable information but I personally know only a few and so this is not practical.
A single or double blind survey is the only sound way to do this that i can see; hence, my interest in the PR statistic.
Thanks for your input though. I am delighted to here that you enjoy sex with clients "many, many times."
-- Modified on 11/4/2008 2:37:51 PM
LOL just this afternoon I had such a HUGE O that I soaked my comforter completely through. I will not describe the gentleman responsible for such a mess, but lets just say he is definitely an AARP member, and probably stopped working out on a regular basis sometime in his 20's.
No, he's not much to look at, but he is a sweetheart, and a regular who's company I very much enjoy.
Maybe one of the reasons I enjoy my job so much is that I leanred long ago that looks aren't everything. Sexual satisfaction is 100% in the mind, and I don't need to be titillated by six-pack abs when a man has a talented tongue and delightfully dirty mind.
Of course I don't have an orgasm every single time. But if I had to give an average, I would say that easily 80% of the time I do.
PS. I am one of those who took the survey (LG, am I allowed to reveal that?) since my responses were anonymous, I had no reason to lie about my sexual satisfaction, nor any other part of the survey.
and a dumpy balding fat guy who is not much to look at I say THANK YOU!
OK, I was at the gym yesterday but you would never know it...
Interesting that no one but myself found the statistic remarkable (i.e., if we assume that 49% of TER escorts would report a “very much above average” sexual satisfaction rate with their clients). That is a VERY high rate using the Provider Report choices which offered providers the option to choose “average” satisfaction and “somewhat above” average.
But with due respect to all of you, it truly is remarkable not only in terms of my initial assumption but also when compared to surveys on sexual satisfaction of women in general. These surveys almost always find that the emotional relationship the woman has with her partner is critical to sexual satisfaction. I’ll quote Dr. Jennifer Berman here who concluded after a recent major survey:
“The emotional relationship is the connection that a woman has and experiences with her partner and it's critical. Women perceive and experience sex in terms of a context, and by that I mean the relationship that they have with their partner. Women have difficulty separating sex from emotions such as closeness, attachment, trust, love and support. If a woman is not connected emotionally to her partner, sex suffers; she is less inclined to be sexual, and thus is less satisfied.
So while women can have sex, even enjoy sex, on a particular encounter or occasion, for her to perceive overall sexual satisfaction in her life and relationship, she needs to feel emotionally connected to her partner.”
That is what is missing from the escort-client encounter where the lady has no emotional connection to her partner and does not even get to choose her partner based on looks, wealth etc. So while there are many factors that bear on “sexual satisfaction” (most surveys I reviewed find that women do not equate orgasm frequency with sexual satisfaction), the Provider Report statistic if accurate as applied to client encounters suggests that these ladies are achieving a high rate of sexual satisfaction from the sexual act itself with a partner they’ve just met or barely know.
Until I see some survey evidence to the contrary, I remain with my original view that 49% of TER providers would not report such a high rate of sexual satisfaction from client encounters if they directly and honestly addressed this question.
Thanks especially to the Love Goddess for doing the survey and giving me this forum to discuss the issue.
I promise not to take up any more space on this.
Well, there are two possible reasons your view may be wrong here. First, the women who choose to be providers may be those who can derive some enjoyment from sex without needing a strong emotional connection. I think most people do derive some degree of enjoyment and satisfaction from their jobs, regardless of what they do. If they don' enjoy it at all, they usually get a different job.
However, a more basic problem is your assumption that the women don't have any emotional connection to their partners just because they are being paid. People also pay their doctors for services rendered and many people do develop relationships with these "providers". Other paid "providers" people develop relationships with might include a barber, a bartender, etc. Providers on these pages are providing much more intimate services and it would actually be surprising if some providers did not form an emotional connection to some of their partners.
If 49% of the providers who average 147 partners a year report sexual satisfaction rats very much above average, I reached the same conclusion you did - these ladies derive satisfaction from the sexual act itself rather than the emotional connection that other studies have usually identified as crucial to high satisfaction rates.
The problem with your second pint is that it does not seem likely given the numbers involved. I'd guess they do form some degree of connection with a small number of the 147 partners but it seems hard to believe that this would happen very often. Now it may be that the satisfaction derived from a small number of partners was sufficient to make them choose the top satisfaction choice offered.
But I think the more likely explanation for the statistic is the one the Love Goddess effectively suggested in her first post - that
they were not necessarily considering clients only but also self pleasure and relationships with S.O.s/
I'm not referring to LG's study- she had a legitimate academic purpose to her research. I'm referring to the decades, no make that centuries, of people assuming that there must be something "wrong" somewhere for a woman to either participate in, or enjoy commercial sex work, sexual expression or whatever else you want to call it. And the assumption seems to be if they just look hard enough they'll find it. That is the subtext that runs through so many of these sort of threads.
People are all different, and that includes sexually. The fact that someone else enjoys a behavior that may be foreign to your way of thinking shouldn't really come as such a shock anymore. I can't believe some things that people do for fun, like scuba diving, for example- my version of terror. And I'm sure they can't understand some of the things that I do, such as motorcycle riding (almost better than sex). But the point is, I don't have to either, as long as they do what they want out of free will.
We don't have to crawl inside and look around to realize that the sexual aspect of our personalities is no different than any others i.e. unique. And we also don't have to approach it with the assumption that anything different from our own experience or comfort zone is deviant behavior.
Some women have high sex drives, some can compartmentalize their emotions, some don't even have to try because it isn't an issue for them- just like it isn't for most men. Some providers just really like people and truly enjoy the interaction with so many different personalities. And I've dated both civilian women and women in CSW that were in all of these categories.
A lot of guys on TER would benefit from a more holistic approach to the women they meet in the hobby. You're not working on your Ph.D, you're here to make a connection with a provider. Get over the tendency to over analyze everything and start learning to enjoy the total experience of being with a unique woman- and let her enjoy the experience of being with you.
Forget her occupation and fee and just interact with her like you would with any other woman you'd date. Many of them are very accomplished in terms of their ability to entertain, soothe, heal, or just plain delight. Let yourself enjoy that and explore what makes the experience of being with her special. After all, isn't that why we're all here in the first place?
-- Modified on 11/6/2008 12:10:45 AM
I would hate to compare the emotional health of providers vs. Psychologists. I'm afraid I might be embarrassed for my colleagues. I of course being the exception with stellar emotional health lol!
Reasearch like LG's survey can be helpful to start to change negative stereotypes of providers at the TER level.
Your advice in the last two paragraphs is very insightful. That is always my goal and it makes for a much better gfe experience. I would not be able to do this if I did not respect and genuinely enjoy the personalities of the people I see. I also admire the fact that many of them are astute business women. Nobody taught me how to do that in grad school and it does not come naturally for me.
-- Modified on 11/5/2008 3:58:16 AM
Though I am very interested in what makes people "tick" I find it much more fun to discover these things one-on-one with a special lady. Just as I read reviews less for the initials (BBBJ, DFK, CIM) and more for insight into a lady's personality, I don't really feel the need to take a clinical approach to a gal's pleasure...or lack of it.
I see my favorite ladies over and over because I enjoy their company. I know they enjoy mine. Who they see, how many they see, and how they feel about it before or after they see me is only a concern for me if they, as trusted friends, want to talk about it.
Honestly if a gal is any good at this the last thing I'm going to think about when I'm with her are statistics so why is any of this even relevant to a guy who is just trying to have some fun? Relax, there's a beautiful naked woman in bed with you!
-- Modified on 11/5/2008 5:38:14 AM
For me it is simple intellectual curiosity about the life styles of these ladies, which in turn is part of a broader exploration of a theory I have about whether the Internet is causing a sea change in sexual attitudes and conduct regarding the world’s oldest profession.
For those advocacy groups I support that are attempting to change state laws on prostitution, surveys like the Provider Report - which propose that independent providers may be very different as a group from on the street and agency sex workers - have enormous value. Why do all states broadly prohibit prostitution? Because of the public nuisance aspects of sex for pay. Prostitutes are perceived as “victims”; they are coerced into sex for pay by criminals who live off their earnings; no one wants streetwalkers parading down the street; no one wants to rent an apartment and discover the lady next door is operating an incall; prostitutes are perceived as spreading sexual diseases; prostitutes are perceived as having sad and dreary lives. The list goes on….
But what if studies showed that there is one group of sex for pay workers to whom none of these public nuisance objections apply? What if studies show independent internet providers doing outcall engage in their profession willingly; that they lead fulfilling lives which includes sexual satisfaction; that they do not spread disease; and they are not supporting or contributing to any criminal element? Then, my friends, the constitutional right to privacy will invalidate as overbroad state prostitution laws in the out call setting between consenting adults, just as the Supreme Court invalidated state laws prohibiting homosexual acts by consenting adults in the privacy of their bedroom.
But the empirical work has not yet been done. Few experts have even recognized that these ladies might be different. Studies like the Provider Report have significant value in changing public attitudes toward these ladies and will eventually provide a factual basis for changing the law in this context. So there are very important reasons for putting these ladies “under a microscope” as you put it.
“You're not working on your Ph.D, you're here to make a connection with a provider. Get over the tendency to over analyze everything and start learning to enjoy the total experience of being with a unique woman- and let her enjoy the experience of being with you.”
I totally understand and respect your viewpoint. But my interests are broader than that. That is not why I post at all. So bear with me guys, if I have dragged you through a discussion that you feel is not important.
Mush of the fascination you mention appears to be tinged with misogyny to me.
If something is 'wrong' with a provider, doesn't that also mean that something is 'wrong' with the client who sees providers? Why ignore that beam in our own eye?
Personally, I don't think there is anything more wrong with providers or clients than there is in the general population, excluding drug addiction.