for me, the remedy for the downside you point out is that I am one-and done without ever looking back. There are more SB's out there than I will ever get to see in my lifetime anyway. Same with hookers, so I am quick to distance myself from low-performance types, whether they be SB's or hookers.
I rarely stay interested in an SB long enough for them to get "spoiled." (The open road calls to me. Lol) However, I have been known to stay around with girls that don't seem to ever get spoiled or take are situation for granted. I usually start out pay-per-session, but then gravitate to a set monthly amount if I am interested in staying for more than few weeks, and then there are no more tips. I would rather treat them once in awhile to fine dining or theatre tickets than give cash. Going on an allowance also removes the "clock" from the equation, so its actually much more cost-effective. I do a lot of overnights and weekends with SB's so being on the clock could expensive in a hurry.
After you are bcd and have finished business? Seems the best way, but wondering if there is proper etiquette in this area. Safest from le perspective also? Plan on meeting for dinner first, then heading back to room.
but there are exceptions, If I get the feeling the girl is "holding back" because she is worried about getting paid I will sometimes make it a point to leave the gift out in the open somewhere in plain sight so she can relax knowing that she won't end up getting stiffed, in the bad way. lol
Under normal circumstances though, I usually give the gift as I leave if we are at her place, just before she leaves if at my place, or just before we leave together if at a hotel or if I am giving her a ride home from my place.
If she "demands" the gift while still in a public setting, I will simply ask her if she has been ripped off before and if she honestly thinks that I might do the same? Regardless of her answer I will attempt to reassure her that I have no intentions of cheating her and that as a compromise I will give her the gift once we are BCD and before we start to actually play together, but if she insists on getting the gift BEFORE we get to the room, I will politely decline and simply suggest to her that if she REALLY has trust issues that run that deep that maybe we aren't such a good match after all.
as Gambler said. However I usually meet my dates in my RV and I always stash the $$ in a cupholder on the table. It's there, in plain enough sight if they want to look for it, but I actually hand it to them after we've had our fun in bed, after we've had some conversation, just as they are getting ready to leave. Recently however I had a lovely new SB meet me in the RV who asked for the $$ before we got intimate. When I simply reached over to the table and handed her the $$ I had stashed there she was so relieved. Turns out she had been ripped off in the past and was not very trusting. We had a great time and I'm planning to see her again tomorrow. I wonder if she'll be more relaxed and wait till we're done to receive the $$. I've never had a SB demand $$ while we were still at the restaurant and heading out to go BCD. I think I'd proceed as Gambler has said in that case.
Never asked for it and I gave when she was leaving.
Probably one of the best evening I had, was a bit at my higher end of range, but given the amount of time and total experience, it left me exhilarated.
Thanks for all who helped me walk me through the scenarios.
I always leave it in an envelope on the coffee table. Rarely have I had a SB take it until it's time for her to go; in fact, I often have to remind them.
for the first time, I will usually give her the envelope up front and ask her to check it to make sure its what we agreed on. Whatever our agreement is, I will usually add an average tip to the envelope on spec, because I want to encourage her to show me her absolute best performance, so I can make an informed decision whether I will be back for a repeat. Tippers are the holy grail for sex workers, so in my experience, I have found that a reasonable tip (not extravagant) out of the gate will get me the best she has to offer. I think they are also impressed with my show of good faith that I am tipping on spec, so they reciprocate with their best effort. Sometimes, its still not good enough and I don't repeat, but I don't want to make that decision without enough information. If they don't step up their game, KNOWING a tip is in the bag, then its an easy decision not come back. Unfortunately, this means I have wasted a tip on a substandard performance, but its still cheaper than paying for a second session that will be just as disappointing as the first. Time to cut my losses and move on to the next one. Over the years, a lot of guys on the various discussion boards have disagreed with me on tipping a new girl on spec, but this has been a winning strategy for me.
When I am repeating with a girl I have seen before, I always give the envelope at the end, just as GaG does.
That said, your answer still makes sense from your perspective I am sure.
and yes, SB's are mainly sex workers with "plausible deniability" lol, but there are some differences, and "tipping" is one of them. When you tip a hooker, she has a set rate she charges for everyone and you give her 20% or so above that rate "to insure prompt (good) service" the very definition of TIPS. Usually the tip is appreciated, and quite often the service improves, and very rarely does your tip establish a new price point with her.
I wish I could say the same for the sugar bowl. In the sugar bowl EVERYTHING is negotiated and giving a tip in advance has an equal chance of causing your SB to raise her "allowance" in the future without increasing her service as is does getting her to give you her best. I am NOT a fan of tipping SB's, or at least not tipping them in advance as it tends to have the opposite effect from what you are hoping for. If I do "tip" an SB it's a reward for a great time as in "You were fantastic tonight, here's a little extra for you" If you just give her extra money she is going to start expecting it, and most likely is going to start getting spoiled and expect a tip on top of the extra you already offered. Always remember, people (SB's in particular) treat you the way you train them to treat you. If you just offer up extra money without her having done anything to earn it, she is going to start expecting more and more. I really don't mind the extra money, but there is no upper limit to what an SB can ask, unlike a professional who has a rate list. The more you give most women, the more they are going to want.
BTW I don't use envelopes either. lol
for me, the remedy for the downside you point out is that I am one-and done without ever looking back. There are more SB's out there than I will ever get to see in my lifetime anyway. Same with hookers, so I am quick to distance myself from low-performance types, whether they be SB's or hookers.
I rarely stay interested in an SB long enough for them to get "spoiled." (The open road calls to me. Lol) However, I have been known to stay around with girls that don't seem to ever get spoiled or take are situation for granted. I usually start out pay-per-session, but then gravitate to a set monthly amount if I am interested in staying for more than few weeks, and then there are no more tips. I would rather treat them once in awhile to fine dining or theatre tickets than give cash. Going on an allowance also removes the "clock" from the equation, so its actually much more cost-effective. I do a lot of overnights and weekends with SB's so being on the clock could expensive in a hurry.
There really is no clock with most SB's. Obviously any SB is going to expect more for a weekend date than for an hour "quicky" but a lot of times if you are taking an SB to someplace nice (and expensive) she won't even need any cash on top of the date that none of her college age BF's could ever dream of treating her to. That of course is rarely the case with hookers who are more than able to pay for their own pricey vacations.
I agree about your "remedy" but why create problems for yourself in the first place? I really don't believe in "spoiling" SB's with a lot of cash that they probably end up spending on their dead beat BF. My budget is pretty much unlimited where it comes to dinners, drinks, trips etc. but I have some very finite limits where it comes to giving them cash.
Your budget was unlimited when it came to drinks, but I didn't know about the dinners and trips. Lol
I feel the same. Cash just makes things more business-like with an SB and makes it hard for them to stop thinking in terms of $/hr. Its better to "spoil" them other ways. However, once I go on the allowance, I expect to have some overnight and extended dates included when I have the time. As you know, if you treat them to a travel experience that is otherwise out of their league, most will not grouse about the extra time it takes to savor a luxury experience overnight or for an entire weekend.
As anyone who's been on these boards for any length of time knows, those attempts usually crash and burn with providers who charge $4-500 hr or even more. They are more than able to pay for their own vacations and unless you are actually dating them and/or are someone they really enjoy spending time with they aren't about to have to be "ON" for several days at a time without payment. And to tell the truth I don't blame them.
Now when it comes to SB's high priced vacations are a completely different matter. Very few college coeds who have a part time job pouring coffee for 10 bucks an hour are in any position to look down on a week end trip that's going to cost several grand. The only cash I would give an SB for taking her on a luxury trip would be a bit of pocket/shopping cash so she wouldn't have to ask every time she wanted to buy a ten dollar item at the gift shop. To be perfectly honest about it, if I invited an SB on a luxury trip and she started asking me about how much she would be getting paid on top of it, I would immediately withdraw the offer and take someone who was going to appreciate the gesture.
Don't get me wrong, I love hookers and I even enjoy the time I spend with semi pros, but I feel the exact opposite from how most hookers feel, I am paying for SEX, completely NSA sex to boot. I do NOT pay for "time and companionship" I am not such a loser that I have to pay someone just to hang around with me and "let me" pay for all their meals, drinks, shopping, air fare, etc. There are at least a couple of girls I see now who are what I would call "semi pros" I have short dates with them on a pretty regular basis, but the dates are almost completely spent between the sheets. I have ZERO delusions that these particular girls are "into me" we have sex, I pay them and they leave. I can't imagine taking any of those kind of SB's on an extended date, but that doesn't mean I don't absolutely love fucking them. lol
Even on a vacation to a gorgeous spot at a great resort, it's not like she'll have the same kind of fun if she was with her BFFs or even her own honey-bunny.
Gals usually charge an arm and a leg to accompany a client on an extended vacation date, and they earn their money.
It's not so unlike when I take out a customer to dinner and have to be "on" with them. Even though the company is picking up the tab, I'm not enjoying myself even if the food and service are excellent. This is true even if the customer is a nice guy with whom I can chat. I still have to mind my Ps and Qs and keep fairly sober.
On top of that, I don't even get paid for the overtime!
and that is the ability to hold your booze. lol
More deals are closed in bars than offices and NOBODY wants to do business with a bad drunk. (Picture MP 67. lol)
I do agree with you about hookers going on "vacation" with clients, it's hardly a vacation for them if it's not with a guy that they would have gladly gone with for free, and having met a LOT of "hobbyists" I am sure you'd agree there aren't many that fit that description.
Where I disagree is about taking clients out for dinner or drinks. I often have a great time when out with clients, and I am usually the one picking up the tab since I am the "company" lol I don't let clients see me at my worst, but I am hardly minding my Ps and Qs either. Actually not all that long ago I took a client to Costa Rica, he enjoyed getting drunk and fucking chicas just as much as I did.
in my early years seeing hookers and SB's when suggesting extended vacations, but I learn quickly. Now I would not even consider asking someone to go on a vacation with me if they thought they would ask for direct compensation. I won't even pay their "time" for a two hour dinner, much less for a weekend. I've had a great 7-8 years once I learned the ropes on how to manipulate sex workers. I usually wait to ask for extended time until we have morphed into a real life relationship. That takes money out of the picture, except for small incidentals like you mentioned. I follow the thinking that I should pay for what I pay for with a civvie girl, and have found sex workers are mostly okay with that if we have had a long relationship.
That her allowance is provided each time she sees me, when we end our visit together. I don't differentiate on specific time frames or activities. But I also add context that our sugar relationship includes consistent intimacy. Perhaps it's just a Jedi mind trick that allows an SB who would never want to be a hooker exist in the P4P space. I also make it clear when negotiating the deal that when we go somewhere, whether it's a meal or travel, that I pay all expenses. It's one of my selling points: you never pay for anything when you are with me.
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Tips? No fucking way, ever.
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But unexpected presents? When I feel like it. And when I do, I try to make it something meaningful or (better yet), something she really needs. This reinforces that Daddy is "on her side" and that he pays attention to her life, not just her pink parts.
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I always put the allowance in an envelope, unless using a cash transfer app for my more trusted, established SB's. I think it helps reduce the perception of "hooker pay" (at least in her mind).
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Life is good.
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The Cat