Have a m&g for coffee. It’s not like she’s completely hiding it. Same first name as her p411 ad.
However at least right now she’s playing it like a regular SD/SB relationship. I could rely on my one SB story from years ago (converted from agency girl) but I’d love more thoughts. Her normal rate is 4$ in Houston. Mainly how do I make the most of it ?!
Price is the only play ... low ball.
Price is the only play ... low ball.
I've mentioned this before. SA is a dating site that specifically caters to the Sugar Bowl. Many POT's have a day (or night) job, and they typically don't join SA to find new customers for their business.
The fact the she's a hooker by profession only means she will likely have no problem agreeing to sex as part of her arrangement. Now yes, some hookers join SA to look for new Johns on the DL, but don't assume that. If she ultimately acts like she wants to book sessions with you as a John, then treat her accordingly and decide if that's what you want. But if you treat her like a Sugar date, she should respond as a Sugar date. If you start to treat her like a hooker by asking for things like an hourly rate, or mentioning her hooker ads or rates, or asking about her clients, she'll go into hooker mode and treat you like a John.
The short version: Leave her job out of your relationship with her, unless she brings it up. It's not relevant, or shouldn't be relevant, to her personal dating life.
Life is good
The Cat
My guess is that she wants to go beyond SB to GF. Take it as a compliment.
Treat her like an real IRL date, if that is what you might want. It might become an IRL date if you both want it to. If you aren't willing to consider that possibility, perhaps gently move away. For me, SB relationships aren't really pay per visit. We get together when it is convenient for both of us and there is no clock. Money happens, but it isn't talked about.
SB/SD is a baby step away from GF/BF so don't go there if you aren't open to the possibility. GF relationships are by definition entanglement which can be lovely but complex. If you are willing, you may have a GF for life (not necessarily a beddable one forever) if she feels the same way.
My $.02, if you are both into each other, it is worth a try.
Well said, girlfan1959. An SB and I have been gf/bf for five and a half years now and we are very happy.
I did treat it like an IRL date, except for the discussion of allowance and envelope exchange. (If this continues, we talked abt keeping it to a minimum of once a month envelopes.)
One thing worth mentioning for background is that I’m still married ( more than a decade), though As I have mentioned on the Gd board, my wife is more understanding having been a well known PS. She and I do our thing and see each other when convenient like we’ll be together this week. She is still objectively a 10 among milfs and solid 9 all age groups, body but especially the face. But even if she’s perfect, you know how it goes with men like us and variety...the point is I’m not sure I need another real relationship. Who knows.
I would start the process like you would any other POT. Don’t assume that she’s there just to find additional John’s. You never know what or more importantly why she is on SA and I wouldn’t assume anything. Treat her like you would any other SD POT and you might be pleasantly surprised. Maybe she is doing that because she wants a really strong connection with someone she can see on a regular basis. Go out and get wined and dined a little. If it turns out that all that she is doing is looking to expand her practice, then simply make a decision whether that’s what you want. Either way, I would put any presumptions aside and just go meet her and see how events unfold.
It was Amazinnggggggg!
Great morning coffee date with the real provider just as promised, whose 23 yo body is just my type and what I needed!
This went on for hours like we were good friends except her hands were on me much of the time. So she played it true as though she was not a Pro and i treated her well like any POT. Very promising!
Then it went to amazing BCD time which went on for hours and fulfilled a few fantasies I asked for. So 4- 5 hr quality date made it so worth it $ wise.
My problem now is how many more of these do I do? First, the girl says she is wanting me to be the first guy to come to her place. Don’t know if I can believe that but she sounded sincere to this poker player.
Second, she asked me how many more of these girls I am seeing and told me she only has one other LT SD. I was upfront and told her that I just joined SA and set up a few meets... but didn’t have a grand plan yet...
Anyway, I’m on pussy cloud 9 right now and am not thinking clearly yet.
... discretion is the better part of valor.
Time to find the delicate balance between not lying about anything, but not telling about everything. No SB wants to know you count her as one out of 3, 4, 8 or more, especially if you are doing anything BB, and even more especially if you are not sharing recent and frequent test results. Plus, she's going to be acutely aware that the money you are spending on her is only a fraction of your total available sugar budget. Makes it rather difficult for her to feel special (if that's what you are going for). Now, GaGa will have a different point of view, as he makes no secret that any given SB is essentially his Girl Friday, and there's a Girl Saturday, Sunday and the rest of the week lined up all the time. So you'll need to think this through for yourself.
For me, I feel like I have no right to ask for exclusivity from an SB, especially when I'm not covering 70-90% of her total expenses. She can make the rest of her money any way she wants, and that includes having multiple SD's, jobs, or robbing banks. Likewise, I never claim I will be exclusive with my SB's... but it's how I say it that matters. If asked directly about who else I'm fucking now, I will let them know I am (or was) seeing other people. But, absent a direct question, I deflect and imply. As I said, I don't lie, but I can present the truth in a way that let's her infer the answers she wants. For example: I use the past tense a lot.
Q: Have you been seeing anyone else? A: I had an arrangement that ended several months ago.
This is true - I did have an arrangement that ended several months ago. I also have 3 other arrangements that are ongoing - but I don't mention those.
Q: I'm ok if you see other women, just keep safe, ok? A: Well, I really don't like juggling multiple women like some kind of player. I'm really happy with you.
Also true! I don't like to juggle. I DO juggle constantly. But I don't like it. And I am really happy with her (or I'd dump her), as well.
So don't ask her about her SD's. She may volunteer that info, and you should be ok with it, not jealous, and not curious. Don't ask for details like allowance, age, skills in bed, or anything else that could set up a comparison between him and you. It's not your business and every tidbit of info she gives you or you ask for can be a problem later. In your case, the same goes for her clients. Don't ask and don't set yourself up to be judged like a client. I'd even stay away from mentioning other hookers you go see - unless it's germane to your conversation and she asked you directly. Even then phrase your reply as in the past. I mean, even it was yesterday, or that morning, it IS in the past. Let her infer it was months or years ago.
Summary: Keep your time and conversation with her about HER and your experiences with her. If pressed for info about other women you've fucked, keep your answers placed in the past - even if that past was an hour ago.
Life is good
The Cat
I probably am more your style than GaGs... mainly because I don’t have the time or stamina anymore to handle a provider almost EVERY day lol. Love the past tense game though that obviously doesn’t fly once the “jig is up” - I know u will get my meaning there.
This was a direct question, a masterful poker style move where she surprised me and looked at my immediate visceral reaction. I did pause and stammer for just a moment but I felt like i delivered a decent “I just started and don’t know what I’m doing yet” answer.
I certainly am not asking what she’s doing. She told me she’s “dancing” and does OF videos but has not copped to providing. Notably, she did volunteer to tell me everything if I wanted to share everything. My gut reaction must have told her I was not inclined to go that route lol.
... discretion is the better part of valor.
Time to find the delicate balance between not lying about anything, but not telling about everything. No SB wants to know you count her as one out of 3, 4, 8 or more, especially if you are doing anything BB, and even more especially if you are not sharing recent and frequent test results. Plus, she's going to be acutely aware that the money you are spending on her is only a fraction of your total available sugar budget. Makes it rather difficult for her to feel special (if that's what you are going for). Now, GaGa will have a different point of view, as he makes no secret that any given SB is essentially his Girl Friday, and there's a Girl Saturday, Sunday and the rest of the week lined up all the time. So you'll need to think this through for yourself.
For me, I feel like I have no right to ask for exclusivity from an SB, especially when I'm not covering 70-90% of her total expenses. She can make the rest of her money any way she wants, and that includes having multiple SD's, jobs, or robbing banks. Likewise, I never claim I will be exclusive with my SB's... but it's how I say it that matters. If asked directly about who else I'm fucking now, I will let them know I am (or was) seeing other people. But, absent a direct question, I deflect and imply. As I said, I don't lie, but I can present the truth in a way that let's her infer the answers she wants. For example: I use the past tense a lot.
Q: Have you been seeing anyone else? A: I had an arrangement that ended several months ago.
This is true - I did have an arrangement that ended several months ago. I also have 3 other arrangements that are ongoing - but I don't mention those.
Q: I'm ok if you see other women, just keep safe, ok? A: Well, I really don't like juggling multiple women like some kind of player. I'm really happy with you.
Also true! I don't like to juggle. I DO juggle constantly. But I don't like it. And I am really happy with her (or I'd dump her), as well.
So don't ask her about her SD's. She may volunteer that info, and you should be ok with it, not jealous, and not curious. Don't ask for details like allowance, age, skills in bed, or anything else that could set up a comparison between him and you. It's not your business and every tidbit of info she gives you or you ask for can be a problem later. In your case, the same goes for her clients. Don't ask and don't set yourself up to be judged like a client. I'd even stay away from mentioning other hookers you go see - unless it's germane to your conversation and she asked you directly. Even then phrase your reply as in the past. I mean, even it was yesterday, or that morning, it IS in the past. Let her infer it was months or years ago.
Summary: Keep your time and conversation with her about HER and your experiences with her. If pressed for info about other women you've fucked, keep your answers placed in the past - even if that past was an hour ago.
Life is good
The Cat
I would suggest that you NOT ask about or sign up for her OF account - unless she proactively asks you to do so. Consider that a small increase in her allowance that will pay multiple dividends in BCD time.
Likewise, don't go looking for her at the club(s) where she dances - unless she proactively asks you do so. I don't know if you regularly go to clubs, but if she mentions the name of the club or you figure it out, make sure you call them for a roll call before you go so you're sure she's not working that shift. If you're at a club and find her there, or she finds you there, act surprised. If you're there with a buddy, make sure he says it was HIS idea to go the club. Then be casual and after a short time slip away. Later, If she asks you why you left, tell her you didn't want to make her uncomfortable or be a distraction.
The point is: Act like a BF, not a customer. BF's don't pay for their GF's content. BF's don't lurk at their stripper GF's home club. And BF's don't pay for lap dancers with their stripper GF, because why spend money on her that has to be split with the club? A BF might make a faux big deal of "making it rain" while she's on stage by tossing 20 $1's on her. Then sit back for a while before you leave. That may help her get more stage tips or dances with the other PL's* there, which she will appreciate.
(* PL = Pathetic Loser. This is the slang term that strippers use to describe their customers.)
Your "still figuring it all out" line is perfect. When she asks you later what you "figured out" you can tell her that you did meet some others, but you've realized you prefer to be with her. Don't mention that you are still seeing others. Let her infer you dropped them and came back to her.
Life is good
The Cat
This is good advice.
I have dated strippers so I’ve played the good BF and I’m aware of the PL nickname.
This girl baited me with thirsty OF photos and I only told her how hot she looked and how much luckier I was to have the real thing! Lol.
I would suggest that you NOT ask about or sign up for her OF account - unless she proactively asks you to do so. Consider that a small increase in her allowance that will pay multiple dividends in BCD time.
Likewise, don't go looking for her at the club(s) where she dances - unless she proactively asks you do so. I don't know if you regularly go to clubs, but if she mentions the name of the club or you figure it out, make sure you call them for a roll call before you go so you're sure she's not working that shift. If you're at a club and find her there, or she finds you there, act surprised. If you're there with a buddy, make sure he says it was HIS idea to go the club. Then be casual and after a short time slip away. Later, If she asks you why you left, tell her you didn't want to make her uncomfortable or be a distraction.
The point is: Act like a BF, not a customer. BF's don't pay for their GF's content. BF's don't lurk at their stripper GF's home club. And BF's don't pay for lap dancers with their stripper GF, because why spend money on her that has to be split with the club? A BF might make a faux big deal of "making it rain" while she's on stage by tossing 20 $1's on her. Then sit back for a while before you leave. That may help her get more stage tips or dances with the other PL's* there, which she will appreciate.
(* PL = Pathetic Loser. This is the slang term that strippers use to describe their customers.)
Your "still figuring it all out" line is perfect. When she asks you later what you "figured out" you can tell her that you did meet some others, but you've realized you prefer to be with her. Don't mention that you are still seeing others. Let her infer you dropped them and came back to her.
Life is good
The Cat
While it's true that I "try" to have an SB for everyday of the week AND I am on record as stating that I am "too lazy to lie" I also have to admit that "total" honesty is quite overrated. lol
I don't ever volunteer to any SB that she is one of many other SB's and especially that she is one of several CURRENT SB's, that kind of honesty only works for guys in the polyamory world like Sweets. I am like you, "Don't ask, don't tell" and when pressed "obfuscate" or at least do as you do and phrase everything in the past tense, if at all. lol
I want ALL my SB's to feel special, and they all are special in their own way, even if for only an hour or two. lol
... and I must admit that when I was balls deep in a new SB (24-year old half Filipina, half-Latina with a 21 inch waist and 34DD tits) yesterday, I truly did think she is special!
Hell, any hot woman that agrees to have sex with me is special (and not in a "short-bus" way... 
.
Life is good
The Cat
What do you guys say on the SD experience question, meaning how much do we do this?
I can honestly say that I just started but I’ve done “a few “in the past, certainly no expert, but enough to guide us through it/ not be awkward.”
I will riff off HerbCat ... and say that I don’t think that every girl who bangs me is special ! ... I think every girl I bang whom I SHOULD be banging is special.
Unfortunately my confessional is ive been lured in by a few OTHFB lately, was horny, so said wth.
From a recent thread about the “curvies”, I’d say this is an interesting conundrum because for me it’s abt being in the mood and the circumstances. A new 20yo POT is a 6-7 looks curvy (after her first baby) and I have to drive 40 min to get to her small town ...but shes swell and she’s happy with a tiny fraction of the city rate! I’m also looking for her to tone up a little more as her circumstances improve. So I think she qualifies for the “SHOULD be “ category. Especially as not OTH, not fat.
Not thinking clearly LOL
I'm not going to comment any further
It’s true I said I wasn’t thinking yet lol.
This will never make it into an official review but I don’t think I’ve ever heard “Daddy” so many times in a single session lol. Certainly not from a young PAWG spinner. It’s like that “priceless” MasterCard commercial.
Not thinking clearly LOL
I'm not going to comment any further
There are informal rules for interactions with a provider. There are none for SBs or providers on the exit ramp to becoming SBs or just girlfriends. Each relationship is its own thing.
Coming to her place doesn't seem like a big deal unless she live with her parents and wants to introduce you.
To paraphrase Tolstoy's opening tp Anna Karenina, all provider relationships are the same, but each retiring provider to SB or SB/GF relationship is is unique (although hopefully not unhappy). These are my best experiences, but you two need to agree on your own path forward. Among the benefits, you don't need to pretend with each other about chastity, previous experience, etc. Just be honest about what each of you want and how you both feel feel about infidelity, home-wrecking (often a big fear among such ladies), her expectations about the future of the relationship, exclusivity (which seems like it should be mutual to me), etc. These relationships also tend to evolve, so it is important to keep talking about your changing attitudes and desires. These relationships tend to end eventually (at least for the sex part) for various reasons. For example, she may finish grad school and moves to a different city, or decide that it is time for a more age-appropriate boyfriend/marriage/kids. However, it is pleasant to end that part on good terms and stay friends.
I am becoming a fan of girlfan !
With all the good experiences shared here , I went into meeting #3 well prepared. Bottomline, I walked away thinking that the interaction was starting to settle into mediocre BCD action while I was becoming an emotional crutch for the provider ... like a taken for granted BF situation lol. I don’t think it will continue on the monthly allowance SB track. Maybe an occasional ppm when I’m in the mood for the heavy “daddy” RP. I give some more details below.
We arranged to meet sometime this weekend and the it was in the cards last night. She spent the day working on a photo shoot for her website and to be transparent I saw a lovely new 21yo redhead POT with small waist and big tits at lunch time so I told my provider SB to come by my place when she was done with her day. At first the plan was dinner/ night out then BCD at my place, but the first sign things were getting complacent was her suggestion to eat in. When she arrived looking very casual in sweats —to be fair, she asked how dressed up she should be, we ate takeout Italian from the best place in the area in picnic fashion in the master bedroom, got 420 friendly, then had our BCD time.
Now the issue with our BCD was that after three sessions— and I grant it could’ve been the effect of the pot or fatigue— she is just not putting much effort into it anymore, as far as I can tell: not even a BJ which she knows I love and asked for, just a long Hj, yes dirty talk daddy RP, but no DATY because she said she doesn’t enjoy it in general because of a bad experience presumably abuse and only one position I felt it was to get it over with. I enjoy daty if the woman enjoys so it was no biggie by itself. Overall, the problem is just more rules at this point in the bedroom than I would expect from a provider.
Finally, we talked abt her photo shoot and her day. ..totally uninvited and unencouraged on my part, she started talking abt her experiences with “Johns” and how unsafe she felt on working tours. This turned me off because it sorta pierced the veil on the Sb/ GF experience if any of you get my drift.
It’s probably me and the fact I have four dates scheduled over two days... but I just kept thinking this one just didn’t measure up to a good date even as the provider was texting me “thanks for a wonderful night.”
There are informal rules for interactions with a provider. There are none for SBs or providers on the exit ramp to becoming SBs or just girlfriends. Each relationship is its own thing.
Coming to her place doesn't seem like a big deal unless she live with her parents and wants to introduce you.
To paraphrase Tolstoy's opening tp Anna Karenina, all provider relationships are the same, but each retiring provider to SB or SB/GF relationship is is unique (although hopefully not unhappy). These are my best experiences, but you two need to agree on your own path forward. Among the benefits, you don't need to pretend with each other about chastity, previous experience, etc. Just be honest about what each of you want and how you both feel feel about infidelity, home-wrecking (often a big fear among such ladies), her expectations about the future of the relationship, exclusivity (which seems like it should be mutual to me), etc. These relationships also tend to evolve, so it is important to keep talking about your changing attitudes and desires. These relationships tend to end eventually (at least for the sex part) for various reasons. For example, she may finish grad school and moves to a different city, or decide that it is time for a more age-appropriate boyfriend/marriage/kids. However, it is pleasant to end that part on good terms and stay friends.
So the potential advantages of an SB arrangement with a "pro" are amazing:
- Off the hook sex from an experienced partner
- Comfortable in social settings with an older guy
- Open to, even specifically looking for, the emotional connection she does not want when working
- Understands the NSA and non-monogamous nature of an arrangement
In your case, you seem to be enjoying none of these. Instead, she is already showing a lack of interest in contributing to the arrangement a a level an A-List SB should contribute. Now, as you point out, this one incident may only be a sign of poor planning by each of you, in that she was tired, focused on important (to her) work issues, and didn't have her "head in the game" (pun intended) for your date, while you may have been sowing your seeds (pun intended again) over too many fields to to really focus on the fruit right in front of you due to fatigue, weed, and a failure to set expectations.
Now the questions you might consider are:
1. Can you/should you give her another chance?
2. If yes, can you/should you do a better job of planning a day when you will both be ready, able, willing to put your all into the date (intended again, of course).
3. If still yes, can you/should you initiate a conversation, in a non-defensive way, about the adjustments you want to make in planning, preparation, and execution of your next date?
4. Or is the effort to do all this with no guarantee of success worth the time and allowance plus date costs, when you could be spending the same or fewer dollars and time with another current or new SB?
Remember that you can only spend a dollar of allowance and a minute of your time on one SB.
For me, I'd find a time outside of date scheduling to have a chat with her. Preferably by phone, but text if necessary. Be honest, but not accusatory. Talk about what you two did or did not do, and do not assume bad intentions or laziness.
In other words, don't try to tell her how SHE feels! Instead, ask her how she feels.
Ex: "I wish we had spent more on oral sex, I really love that. What can we do to make that more comfortable for each of us?"
And: "Honestly, I don't think I should have smoked before we had fun. It made it more difficult for me to really connect with you. What do you think?"
The worst that can come from a discussion is that the arrangement eds. But that's likely to happen anyway. The best is that you two get a deeper level of intimacy and do a better job of being your best at your future dates.
Life is good
The Cat
...Text her a message asking if we could make some changes. I would have called but I was on the road today.
First I wasn’t prepared for the reply: “are u breaking up with me?” People here said it could but I didn’t really expect it to sound like a civvie relationship this early on. My cynical side thought that she was only worried abt losing a meal ticket. I said “no” to her question for now with the explanation about trying to make things better.
That pacified her and she admitted she was being “lazy” and “didn’t know u felt that strongly about” head (who doesn’t??). Then I started getting texts that she will “suck my dick when I want”. Better.
Herb, you’re also perceptive that maybe I’m seeing greener pastures to sow my oats in a 21 yo girl in hand, who’s a 9 or 10 on looks and not as good in bed YET but who could be better and is certainly a piece of arm candy. And another 28 yo Divorced Ex-model who’s a solid 10 but probably expensive. I haven’t decided. But your advice was well taken so at least the option is there.
So the potential advantages of an SB arrangement with a "pro" are amazing:
- Off the hook sex from an experienced partner
- Comfortable in social settings with an older guy
- Open to, even specifically looking for, the emotional connection she does not want when working
- Understands the NSA and non-monogamous nature of an arrangement
In your case, you seem to be enjoying none of these. Instead, she is already showing a lack of interest in contributing to the arrangement a a level an A-List SB should contribute. Now, as you point out, this one incident may only be a sign of poor planning by each of you, in that she was tired, focused on important (to her) work issues, and didn't have her "head in the game" (pun intended) for your date, while you may have been sowing your seeds (pun intended again) over too many fields to to really focus on the fruit right in front of you due to fatigue, weed, and a failure to set expectations.
Now the questions you might consider are:
1. Can you/should you give her another chance?
2. If yes, can you/should you do a better job of planning a day when you will both be ready, able, willing to put your all into the date (intended again, of course).
3. If still yes, can you/should you initiate a conversation, in a non-defensive way, about the adjustments you want to make in planning, preparation, and execution of your next date?
4. Or is the effort to do all this with no guarantee of success worth the time and allowance plus date costs, when you could be spending the same or fewer dollars and time with another current or new SB?
Remember that you can only spend a dollar of allowance and a minute of your time on one SB.
For me, I'd find a time outside of date scheduling to have a chat with her. Preferably by phone, but text if necessary. Be honest, but not accusatory. Talk about what you two did or did not do, and do not assume bad intentions or laziness.
In other words, don't try to tell her how SHE feels! Instead, ask her how she feels.
Ex: "I wish we had spent more on oral sex, I really love that. What can we do to make that more comfortable for each of us?"
And: "Honestly, I don't think I should have smoked before we had fun. It made it more difficult for me to really connect with you. What do you think?"
The worst that can come from a discussion is that the arrangement eds. But that's likely to happen anyway. The best is that you two get a deeper level of intimacy and do a better job of being your best at your future dates.
Life is good
The Cat