LG, I think I need some help perhaps trying to deal with a situation and also trying to understand my own reaction to everything.
I'd love the opinion of LG and any one else.
First of all let me introduce "Mark" whom I met over a year ago. He is over 60, married, and experienced as a hobbyist. The first time we had a session I knew that he was infatuated with me. The more we met for sessions the more involved emotionally he became. I had to cut him off for a few months last year as his emotional needs were to oppressive for me to handle.
I started seeing him again on a more controlled basis and things were going okay until I fell upon some hard times. I quit working for a good long while and Mark was really there for me financially. He helped me out a lot to the tune of a couple thousand dollars.
I was very grateful to have him in my life, but again, his emotional needs tax on me. I can't explain why they are so oppressive. I allow him to bale me out financially but I can't deal with what he needs from me. I believe that he wants to be huge part of my life. Perhaps my boyfriend.
What he doesn't understand is that the more he calls, the more he forces himself into my life, the more he "helps" me, the more he emails, texts, with supposed concern for my well being, the less I want to be around him.
I'm not sexually attracted to him at all. I try to be friendly toward him and I can handle that in spurts. But every time we are together he tells me how beautiful I am, how talented, how special.. it's so sugary that the more he talks the more I want to throw up from sugar shock.
I don't want a boyfriend and I have told him this. I've never been sexually attracted to people that have become friendly with me. I've always lost sexual interest in men the closer they get to me emotionally. I am turned on by the fantasy, by the anonimity, by the short contact I have with men. I don't know why I am that way. I just know that that surely is the way I am.
I like my clients sexually, and my friends emotionally.. and never the twain have been able to meet.
Anyway, this last episode has been horrible. He offered to spend a lot of money on me for Christmas because I've never had a real, christmas decorations, gifts under the tree type Christmas. He talked about it so much and told me that it would make him so happy if he could give this to me. And I really started to feel good about it. I started to get excited for Christmas to come.
And I thought I could handle the closeness with him. So I said yes. He took me shopping. Mind you, not for business. I know that he does not want to be my client as much as he wants to be my lover and boyfriend. But, I agreed to the shopping trip and I agreed to a night out over the weekend to celebrate.
I went home with all of my new Christmas stuff. I feel kind of sick to my stomache every time I look at it all. And then I totally bailed on him when the weekend came. I didn't answer his calls. I've been ignoring him.
I feel like crap. Every time I accept him back into my life he offers gifts, money, dinners out, etc.. Because he thinks it's what I want.
But everytime it's my turn to give him what I think he wants, I choke. I freeze. I've become frigid. Just kissing him makes me gag.
I would welcome him back with open arms if he'd agree to be content to just be a client. And I've told him that, but he always presses for more, offering gifts and money. I tell him I can't give him anymore. I have no energy for anything but my business right now. But it doesn't get through.
What should I do??? I can't pay him back all the money I owe him. At least not right now. But, how do I get him to back off. I need clients right now, not friends. The gifts and all have been so nice but it always seems like they come with a price that is too steep for me to pay.
He calls me and says, "I love you."
But I don't love him. Not even close. I don't know how to deal with this. What should I do? How do I cut it off? I feel guilty because I feel like I owe him so much. But I can't pay it back. I can't give him what he wants. I feel trapped.
but communication is the key. It sounds like you have tried to communicate your feelings toward "Mark" but he has chosen not to listen. Willingly or not you have wound up sending him a mixed signal by accepting his financial help and gifts. However, are there financial loans involved or was the understanding that everything was a gift?
bottom line: the only way to deal with this is to communicate very clearly, without any softening of the message, or any mixed signals (ie accepting further gifts etc) and tell the gentleman that you need him out of your life. Period.
I can tell you that he is not likely to settle for being "just a client". And that he will not take this well. But I don't see any other way out of the situation. If you feel that he might be some kind of threat, perhaps you know someone that could help provide for your security.
If he has given you money, gifts, etc feel free to return what you can but I don't see that you are under obligation to "repay" him.
If there are loans involved, provide him with some reasonable repayment schedule.
But if you don't want "Mark" to be a constant fixture in your life, you have to deal with this straight up, summon up the fortitude, and tell him to leave you alone......
And, if you want to experience a "real" Christmas, why not volunteer at a facility that will be providing Christmas dinner etc for the unfortunate, or for children in hospital etc.
I am sorry you are in this mess. Perhaps LG will have some better or more specific advice. And I wish you good luck.
-- Modified on 11/30/2008 8:05:57 PM
your part of the bargain. Having agreed to celebrate with him for a weekend, and having accepted the gifts, you should call him, apologize, and reschedule. That does not mean you have to respond in kind when he exceeds boundaries, but you owe it to him to see that he has a reasonably good time while you are together.
After this is over comes the painful part. You have to be completely honest with him about your feelings (you can leave out the "I'm not attracted to you sexually part") that the only relationship you want (if any) is as a pure client. And you should stop accepting gifts. These gifts are not arms length and you know it.
This will be painful for both of you but ultimately he will respect you for your honesty and, if he cannot handle being just a client, will he will move on.
what you've done and are doing is wrong. Wrong for you and really wrong for your client.
I don't intend to "pile on" but you do know how you feel - you have stated that well in your story. You also know how your client feels and with you considerable experience around men (and your own feelings, so well described on how you feel about those who get close to you) isn't it clear he can't control his feelings for you?!
This man is needy in an emotional way and you are needy in a financial way. He met your needs but you can't meet his. That to me sounds like an unfair and unhealthy situation for you both.
IMHO you should:
1) Tell this gent that the relationship has to stop completely
2) Recognize you used him. Yes, he offered, but you knew what would happen.
3) Offer to repay what you can, when you can but formalize it and live up to it.
4) Stop seeing him. Oh, said that already.
Us guys can be so over the top impacted by a woman. He's a victim in this, just like you.
Best of luck to you both. This will be hard.
CG
Well, well, well, girlonpedestal,
It's interesting to see that hobbyists are not the only ones who mix their metaphors and blur their boundaries...it can happen to providers as well!
As to what you should do? For one, read the other posters who were kind and chivalrous enough to provide sound advice without judgment. Having said this, maybe I can get a little judgmental here? In other words, you really know better than overstepping your own rules, but of course, as you see, you can't have your cake and eat it too. When you accept the 'help' of someone - particularly an emotionally vulnerable hobbyist - then you will have to expect some consequences. I do understand about falling upon hard times, but it's during those hard times that you really have to assess if there is any free lunch to be had - and in my experience AND opinion, there is no such thing, period.
And so now, you're paying. Paying with feeling trapped, paying with guilt, paying with agony...in some way, you are already paying off your emotional debt by inflicting some punishment on yourself - none of which will help neither him nor you in the long run.
On the other hand, we could callously say that he knew what he was in for, and yes, his will be a run over heart on the Erotic Highway...and yes, we will always have casualties, if nothing else to uphold the stats...but why oh why does it have to be him, pray tell? But so it is, and he will have his illusions crushed at best, and feel very angry and dejected at worst. And that, my dear girl, is nothing you can do anything about. Because I am in total agreement with the other posters - break it off, by telling him that you cannot return his feelings, it's driving you out of your mind, and that you have to stop seeing him. Simple as that, even if it's going to take some major hyperventilation on your part. And do it now, before you go completely bonkers. And learn, learn, learn from this experience, that the boundaries are there to protect both buyer and seller. And get back to selling sex, not trading it, for better or for worse.
Good grief, I think we've all been there,
the Love Goddess
As LG said, you can't have your cake and it too. Just a couple of weeks ago my ATF asked my advice a bout a guy that was, in a very sneaky way, trying to pry into her personal life. She ended up dropping him as a client even though she is UTR , only sees regulars and this guy books four hour appointments every month. In the end she decided that his behavior (he was using on-line purchase tracking from gift cards he had given her as tips to try and find out where she lived and what she liked etc.) meant that she could not trust him no matter how much money he spent on her. Sure she'd love to have his $1200 dollars every month but she doesn't feel comfortable with the guy (frankly, when she was telling me the story it was creeping me out). In the end, her words said it best. "I have to WANT to be there". After this guy's betrayal she didn't want to be in the same room with him anymore.
Clearly you have to make a decision here. I'm not saying you should dump him, it's your call how you make your money. What I am saying is that his habits indicate that his MO is not going to change. You have to either decide that you can live with his behavior or move on.
-- Modified on 12/1/2008 4:50:18 AM
and I know because I used to be the male end of such a tango, albeit in civie dating rather than in the hobby.
He would probably like for you to continue to give him whatever affection and sex you can muster so as to allow him to continue in his fantasy land.
The problem (if that is the right word for it), is that such a charade disgusts you. If that disgust outweighs whatever practical considerations you can muster, then so be it. On the other hand, if you can justify letting him make you financially well off by exploiting his fantasy, you have this former tango star's blessings.
In short, let him worry about his own fate and you worry about yours.
So right Mr. Fisher.. and everybody else. I know that he would love to just keep on with the fantasy. And, for the record, even though I am not sexually attracted to him, I am more than willing to have sex with him.
The problem comes because he wants more than sex. He complains that my sessions with him are scripted and business like. He wants to know where the connection has gone.
I can fake an orgasm, but I can't fake love.
You're right though, I should let him worry about his own fate and his own feelings. I have been wearing kid gloves and walking on eggshells with him from the very beginning because he expressed his feelings for me so intensely and I felt like I was responsible for his feelings. I felt like he can't control his feelings so I'm the one who has to do something about them. His supposed love for me has been a burden.
But it's only because I took on the responsibility of his intense feelings for me. Why did I do that??? From the moment he came into my studio and cried and told me how much he came alive during our time together, how he needed me... I have felt indebted to him for some reason, like I owe him something. Like he's bewitched and some how it's my fault.
So I kept playing the game. It's so easy to get sucked into that worm hole.
I know for a fact that he won't be happy with me giving him his money or gifts back. He'll cry and pout and make me feel like crap. It's like he wants my heart, but that's never been on the bargaining table.
But I hear you all. Thank-you for making this clearer for me. I know what I need to do now.
-- Modified on 12/1/2008 12:42:18 PM
"I have felt indebted to him for some reason"
I know why you felt indebted to him-- because you took thousands of dollars from him! What you really want is for him to keep dropping thousands of dollars and expensive gifts while keeping his mouth shut. You knew he was a nut but you took thousands of dollars from him, now you're crying about it. Jeez.
I have ran into quite a few clients who have become over attached and wanted to be too involved in my life. I guess it's going to happen in this life style. When a client first told me he loved me; I didn't take it serious or have any second thoughts as of if he really meant it or not.
We as the providers have to try to understand our clients' position and imagine ourselves in their shoes. I've realized it doesn't matter if they're old...married..etc. They have chosen to turn to escorts for their happiness and pleasure.
It starts out by them being attracted to you.. and then we can become addictive and they do tend to feel real special just to have us in their lives; even though they're paying. Most folks don't believe in divorce; so don't think that a married client is going to have N.S.A. with you because it happens.. just how those in any relationship tend to cheat.
It can be a scary thing.. I have had to cut off contact with a couple of my clients due to this specific reasoning.. yet the others who seem to be in love with me have managed to "Not Do Too Much".. so I can maintain a regular session with them when we meet.. leave and everything is alright between us...
The best advice I could give you and any other escort with this problem is to follow and act upon your gut feeling... You should be able to tell when it is getting dangerous and not pleasure and fun... step back.. LEAVE IT ALONE!! No matter how much they're paying you or how often they're seeing you... They're are so many more.. You'll be alright*****
Well LG said sometime back in a post that she believes the easiest guys to see are probably married guys fairly content in their marriage who just want some extra sex. I think that is true.
I am curious though, when guys get overly attached, email to much or says things that you find disturbing do you ever just tell them specifically what bothers you? Frankly if someone I enjoyed seeing told me specfic things I was doing that made them uncomfortable I would quit doing them. Not very complicated really.
Maybe with most guys it would not be that simple. Seems like honest communication can be helpful in any kind of human relationship. Now if you directly told somebody what bothers you and they did not stop it seems like that would be the time to seriously consider not seeing them. Just curious.
-- Modified on 12/2/2008 6:08:08 PM
I think Mr. Fisher had it right. It truly got past the point of honest communication, and I knew it was going to a bad place. It's like a fantasy world for him. Sometimes he calls me, angry, because I wrote something in my blog like.. "I'm so horny. I'd love to have someone to call just for a booty call."
And he's so dissapointed that I don't consider calling him. But to me, a booty call is someone with a young hard d***, that just wants to f***. Not an older gent who is in love with me.
He doesn't understand that he can not fulfill all of my needs.. or he won't accept it and he gets mad at me.
Anyway, it got weird because I let it get that way and HS is right. Is so much harder when there is a financial loan involved. It's hard not take gifts and money when it's offered and when it really is needed. And I was and am more than willing to pay it back in session time, great sex, and massages. But, the pressure comes in when he lets me know that he doesn't want that. What I have to offer in return for his generosity is not what he wants.
Every one here is right. I do need to cut it off and just offer a reasonable pay back schedule whether he likes it or not. The fantasy must end because it is taxing on me more than I can bear. I just ... God, I wish it wasn't so hard.. not only to go through this, but to see myself as someone who would let this happen.
My post was more about guys who may be overstepping their bounds but are basically harmless and would not have problems changing their behavior if they were aware what they were doing was causing distress.
He sounds possessive and controlling and thinks the money he gave you of his own free will gives him the right to dictate to you. The fact he gets angry at you for being yourself is a gigantic red flag.
For you I agree cutting it off with this guy is the right thing to do. Way to stressful for you. I wouldn't get to down on myself if I were you. You seem very self aware and this is one of those painful learning experiences we all go through. You have alot of integrity to offer to pay him back. Too bad he could not just enjoy the relationship for what it was. I like to fantasize but I do understand reality.
Good luck to you!
-- Modified on 12/2/2008 6:47:16 PM
Dear girlonpedestal,
With the risk of sounding craven and callous toward your former? client - please cut contact and do not get involved in some sort of repayment scheme. Yes, it's too bad for him, but if this association continues, the ties will never get severed.
Your posting does not indicate that this was an outright loan, hence you are under no obligation to pay anything back. Unless you had an agreement to furnish him with time that he has not yet collected, please just end it right there. And if it was a loan, God forbid, then you have a problem on your hands, because it will be difficult for you to make a case in terms of time already spent, affections provided, etc.
Let this be a learning lesson to all and sundry,
the Love Goddess
The way I read things was he gave her the money of his own free will. I agree she owes him nothing if that is the situation. It's his problem that he made too much of it. I would also add his level of anger concerns me and when you do cut it off be careful and do not put yourself in a vulnerable situation as you don't really know him and how he might react.
There's a possibility that he'll feel cheated, even though he gave money (and things) freely at the time. Unfortunately for him, it's apparent that he wasn't clear headed then, and probably isn't now. He may get clarity in the future, and the chances of that increase dramatically if she cuts him off completely.
I've known stories of guys sending money to a lady and not "getting the goods". They're usually mad, and I feel bad for them, but I can't identify with the problem. Girls have asked me for money in the past, and I've always answered the same way...I'll bring it with me when we spend time together. If they're OK with that, fine. Otherwise, I feel pretty certain that they were going to run with it, and forget their end of the bargain.
Have you tried increasing your charges? This reminds him that this is just business - always been effective with me!
In extremis intimate that you and your friends have a good laugh talking about him.
NO. I do see my part in all of this. I do take responsibility for the role I played in all of this. And believe me, it is not a laughing matter. I don't snicker at him or think, in any way, that he deserves ill treatment.
He's a wonderful person, a very generous and loving man.
It's just that I let it get too far. I let the lines be blurred.
Please, don't assume that I would ever, EVER.. laugh at him or take this situation lightly.
It always amazes me that a guy who is over 60, married and experienced in this business can fool himself like this.
It's not so amazing, many people, male and female, can't seem to differentiate between great sex and love.
In our muddled minds we see the physical and emotional fulfillment of sex as love while not looking on all the other important factors which construe "true" love.
In this particular case, it's not the sex that's driving this gentleman but a case of low self esteem which needs to be heightened by purchasing what he could never get in a normal fashion.
He obviously has severe emotional problems and the best thing the lady can do is cut and run.