Dear LG:  Looks like business is a little slow so I'd like your latest take on the age old question (and will this be in your book) of why the majority of women give up on sex in later years.   Considering:
*  Women are built for pleasure - ability to have almost limitless orgasms.
*  Ability to have multiple orgasms would seem to fuel an insatiable desire for them.  Men certainly want multiple orgasms
*  Men cheat more than women - that is why prostitution is the oldest profession
*  I have 10 golfing friends who are in their late 70's (at the youngest) and they all tell me they miss sex very much.  Their wives are happy that sex is over (their words not mine)
*  Many, many marriages are not in good shape because of sexual mis-matches in sexual desire (more men wanting it than the other way around)

I'm a technologist not a sociologist but I guess this is either our punishment for Eve's eating that damn apple...or the devil is in control and this is his handiwork.

I'm just amazed at how many men want sex from their wives --even after years of marriage and the wives try to avoid it.  It can't be all bad guys being bad lovers (or not taking out the garbage!)

Is this going to be in your book?

CG

I would love an answer to this one...

Q

Dear channelguy,

1. No, it's not going to be in my book. I will be conducting a survey of TER, but a book is not in my plans. And if that happens, it won't deal with women's sexuality, but men's. There are so many books going on and on about women - not that there isn't a need for it, mind you - but we need more sexological information ON MEN!!! As of now, we usually recommend Bernie Zilbergeld's excellent book "The New Male Sexuality," but for heaven's sake, it was written loooong before ED meds and newer treatments arrived on the scene. And Bernie, bless his soul, has gone to the great sexyard in the sky, where all the angels are horny, no matter what time of the day, LOL. So, if I do publish something beyond my dissertation, it's going to be something for women to truly understand men - and for men to understand themselves, natch.

2. The simplest answer to your question about why women "in later years give up sex" is: hormones. Depending on what happens to a woman during perimenopause and after menopause, the horniest, most lusty pre-menopausal female can turn into a very chaste nun who just doesn't care about sex. Some women try to help matters with HRT, but that's not a guarantee for reawakened desires. There's nothing as of yet that replaces the LH surge [luteinizing hormonal surge] that occurs prior to ovulation - Nature's hat trick for getting a woman horny and ready for the implantation of a little critter.

And that's why, throughout history, men have continued to fulfill their genetic imperative with extramarital sex, younger, fertile females, serial monogamy, providers, professional girlfriends, etc., etc., etc.

I'm sure you get my drift,
the Love Goddess

If yoy could reverse it so that we guys gave up on sex but the gals still wanted us, would you do it?

Don't answer too quickly now.

It's not as easy as it seems.

in a marriage when the womans sex drive goes away and the mans remains high - or at least higher.   You (and others) may cringe when I quote Dr. Laura, but she tells women that they must realize that their man's sex drive is high and they signed a contract  - the marriage vows - to love and cherish - and that includes sex.  As she often says to women "ok, you dont' want sex anymore, so what is he to do?  Just say "OK, I'll turn this drive off and go play golf."   NOT!

I've often wondered what "REALLY FUCKING HORNY! feels like to a woman compared to  "I"M REALLY FUCKING HORNY" 'cause I know what that feels like as a man.    

I think you all know what I mean.

I really do think it gets back or original sin.  It's our curse.

Maybe I'm a bit lower in age than the demographic (50) but my wife wants sex way more than I want to give it to her.  This has nothing to do with a low sex drive on my part. Just ask any of the women that I am currently paying for sex.

There are many reasons why one or both parties in a marriage lose interest in sex-either completely or just with the other partner. I'm getting a sense that you are trying to justify cheating. Face it, you are preaching to the choir here.

I stopped asking myself why years ago.  I just do what works for me.

Oh yes, Bostonguy57,
But your wife isn't in "her later years" - or is she? Channelguy was asking about women in general...also, women in their 40s can be exceptionally horny, but that can be the quiet before the ice storm. It's AFTER menopause that the sex drive tanks for a majority of females, sad to say

And of course, there are many women who are "hornier" in a relationship than their SO or husband. But generally speaking, a woman's biologic sex drive can't be compared to a man's - it's so much lower.

Me, I'm wondering if the shoe-shopping gene ever quiets down?

the Love Goddess

When we moved 10 years ago my Mrs had 487 pairs of shoes!  She has a closet of her own that is about 230 sq ft. It is lined with 4 rows of shoe racks.  

Shoes for some women = multiple orgasms

It certainly does for my woman

And yes, she is late 50's, post menapausal

-- Modified on 2/29/2008 2:24:35 PM

Essentially a man can't get any unless he has a lot of bread.  The only reason men do seem to work hard (outside of a few misfits) is to have enough to get laid.

If man weren't horny he'd just sit in front of the boob tube all day long and society would go to hell.

Women wouldn't even care to pick up the slack either.  Why bother?

Shortly the world would be a lifeless ball of mud and ashes.

Let's count our blessings.

*  Women are built for pleasure - ability to have almost limitless orgasms.


Your assertion that women are built for pleasure is simply not true. There is no precedence that says that women can have limitless orgasms. In fact, I have a closer friend who has NEVER had one. She is 30 years old. Wonder why she doesn't care for sex eh...


*  Ability to have multiple orgasms would seem to fuel an insatiable desire for them.  Men certainly want multiple orgasms


Having limitless orgasms for some women is akin to going to a shoe store and spending an hour trying on shoes and deciding which one to buy. It's a process...a build up.  We would rather buy shoes than have orgasms. Orgasms are fleeting and we can't wear them on our feet. Orgasms don't make our ass look good either.


*  Men cheat more than women - that is why prostitution is the oldest profession

I agree. No argument there.



*  I have 10 golfing friends who are in their late 70's (at the youngest) and they all tell me they miss sex very much.  Their wives are happy that sex is over (their words not mine)


I saw a gentleman recently who was doddering on the edge of elderly. In his late 60's. I could not understand what he was doing when he was DATY because he certainly never once hit my clit. I finally couldn't take it any more and gently and politely questioned him on what he was doing, where he thought my clit was and if he had ever heard of the G-Spot. His response.....he'd never gone down on his wife. So no.  I think the reason why a lot of women at that age are glad that sex is over is either because they are "good girls" and think that sex is "bad" or that they were never open and honest about their sexual desires. Unleash the inner "nympho" in a woman and she will never stop wanting it.


*  Many, many marriages are not in good shape because of sexual mis-matches in sexual desire (more men wanting it than the other way around)



It's not the sexual mis-match it's the lack of honesty between partners that MAKES it a sexual mis-match. If people were more honest and forthright about what their likes, desires and fantasies were both parties would be happy. Most wives WANT to satisfy their husbands but can't unless they are told how.


And again, if you recall, in the bible it says "Eve took of the fruit and ate and gave it to Adam who was WITH her."

For all intents and purposes Adam is still at fault. He should have had the balls and intervened when he was supposed to and protect his wife. He chose to stay silent and accept what she offered knowing exactly where she got it from.


Last but not least, the reason men still want sex from their wives is because it's free, it's easy and it's convenient. Least of all it's something they've been "paying" for with blood, sweat, and tears for most of their adult life so they feel entitled.


~Just my two cents worth.


Rae Monroe




-- Modified on 2/29/2008 6:26:29 PM

Although dear Rae,
I must gently interject here...when we say that women have the biologic capacity for a limitless number of orgasms, we are approaching the issue from a mathematical standpoint rather than one of individual situations. From a theoretical standpoint, there are no physical or anatomical barriers to women having an untold number of orgasms, although of course it's not stated HOW those orgasms are generated. [If you are really interested, look up a monograph by Mary Jane Sherfey, MD, who investigated the matter during the 1940s, if I'm not mistaken.] In reality, however, clitoral or vaginal soreness may preclude going at it at length, although for those few lucky women who can climax from purely psychological stimuli, I guess there's no end to it all. And then there are those women who have some kind of neurological hyperarousal state...the slightest movement will cause them to orgasm. Some of these women have literally hundreds of orgasms daily, so much that it actually interferes with their lives. Again, a minuscule minority, but yes, they do exist.

And, to back up your friend's condition: some studies [Kinsey among them] have shown that 10% of women NEVER have orgasms - and don't miss them! 30% of women have orgasmic difficulties. Over 40% of Americans have sexual dysfunctions, and that runs the gamut from sexual desire disorders to psychological ED. But your posting certainly confirms what I and many others in the sexological professions have said all along, and that is that disparity in desire interferes with sexual satisfaction for both parties in a relationship.

But yes, there seems to be a clear preference for shoes rather than orgasms among some women - judging from their shoe collections, to say the least. Personally, I'd gladly trade my rather modest assemblage of footwear for a few years of that horniness I used to feel when I was in my 20s....jeez, those were the days!

Oh sweet mystery of female life,
the Love Goddess

-- Modified on 2/29/2008 7:15:16 PM

In the later years of our marriage, my wife would very often ask to be "Wooed".

Guys continously complain about being put off and some reasons are physical to say the least. However, I believe LG has referred to this once before, men were basicaaly driven to spread their "seed" as much as possible. That part of the ID is still with us. "Anytime..anyplace. Wham and on to the next."

I think one of the reasons that we're here, and not looking for SWs, is that men also like the ambiance of an encounter rather than the quickie, rocks off deposit. (We've grown...LOL)

"Wooing" my wife took on different things at different times. Regardless of what the prior activites might have been, they were all things to stimulate her mind and get the hormones racing. These days I still inject a bit of "wooing" prior to injecting anything else...

It might be interesting to ask some of the more mature providers their opinions about sex-drive. Are they merely acting out for the cash or do they really get into it? Is it better, the same or worse than when they were in their 40's?

I'd suggest that they use an alias for any responces if this is done. Might be the only way to get honest answers.

Dear OhioLoxly,

Not that I'm keeping stats of any kind, but my anecdotal experience of provider retirement is that unless a provider is "bought out" by a client, or has enough money saved up, some ladies work until menopause, but whenever that sets in is rather individual. Of course, as in any statistically curvilinear relationship, you will find some outliers, but in general, ANY woman's sex drive slows down after menopause. Also, some women opt not to take hormones; with that comes thinning of vaginal tissues and some atrophy. Unless you go through lots of lube every time - even if you are sexually excited - it can get very painful to have intercourse.

I would suspect - and this is just a hunch, mind you - that older providers, particularly if they are in menopause, have established clients who are aware of these changes and who accommodate accordingly. An older provider can see an older client - maybe a woman in her 50s with a man in his 70s - and the sex will be gentle and tailored to their changing bodies. Or, like the famous 65-ish provider/retired porn star I am acquainted with in San Francisco - she focuses on her own brand of "sensual touch" and offers no intromissive sex at all. Of course her fees reflect this limitation, but for her type of clients, it's just fine.

If a provider is in her 40s, heck, she could be at the hottest in her lifetime. And of course, no provider is going to go on this board and say that she does it strictly for the cash, LOL. What on earth would make you think that this was even a possibility

Woohoo,
the Love Goddess

You Wrote: "Personally, I'd gladly trade my rather modest assemblage of footwear for a few years of that horniness I used to feel when I was in my 20s....jeez, those were the days!"

Here's an odd flipside to that, as a guy I would not want that raging horniness back. I would take the solid enduring lust for my wife and her girlfriends of my 30's, but that endlessly throbbing hard-on I got from every casual hairflip in my early 20'sbwas annoying. For me it was relentlessly frustrating and made me an easy mark for all that cynical, chaste, eyelash-batting manipulation of pretty girls.  

But then again I hate titty bars.

Have been able to maintain a regular, tho not electric, sexual relationship with my post-menopausal SO by recognizing and catering to the shoe-shopping and hand-bag acquisition genes.

This is really a very intricate variation on the principles of the hobby -- you need to study the stuff -- shoes and bags -- and notice what she admires and keep track of it.   You allow her to buy the stuff that she wants, and you admire it when she shows it off -- but you get her the stuff she's a wee bit shy to buy as a present and surprise her.  Err on the younger side stuff, but not by too much, then tell her she's still your ingenue.  If done right, the exercise has some hormonal effect -- at least it pushes the button that has her go in the bathroom and lube up!

Although I buy my own handbags - I couldn't trust The Saint to do it for me, they'd come out looking like a collection of practical briefcases, LOL. Reminds me of that little ethnic slurry punchline:

How do you tell a JAP and a Shiksah apart: The Shiksah has fake jewelry and real orgasms...

On that note, I'm going to browse the Saks catalogue for more menopausal bounty inbetween work appointments!

Back in our simian days, it used to be nuts and berries
the Love Goddess

for friends, providers, SO's and just about anyone else who grabs my arm in a Coach store for about twenty years now.

If I know anything more now than what I knew back then, I'm not aware of it.

I'm better off trying to figure out Soduku or a Rubrick's cube.

i could take sex or leave it.
funny thing is that i had no clue that i wasnt having orgasms. there are natural points of ups and downs during sex, so during a really feel good point, i'd think oh yeah that was one.

when i was 21 yrs old i had one.

i didnt know what the hell it was but it reminded me of my grandmothers electric fence that used to always get me when i was picking raspberries and not careful.

about 10 minutes later i recovered from the shock and realized that i just had an orgasm.

my husband and i were watching a usa movie. before the 2 hour movie was over, he came 7 times.

he couldnt get it up again for 3 days and not for lack of trying.

now we've been divored over 10 years but i still go for the stiffie every time i get close enough to grab one, regardless of whose it is.

when i was 25, a client told me i was a gusher.

its just as difficult for me to have multiples as it is for a guy.. i can do it but it takes a while.

its possible i'm just a normal woman.

It's funny because Dr. Laura always tells her listeners that woman should  treat their man like a king to get what they want. Well a wife called up upset that she had discovered that her husband had been going to parlors. Dr. Laura was furious and basically said confront him and possibly dump him......she obviously made assumptions and took the womans side.... and never questioned the woman with an appropriate question like "how often do you have sex with your husband?"

get thyself to Bendel's, first floor, to the left as you walk in....

But that is the point, loutsue [Lao Tzu?],

For guys in their 20s, it's all about throbbing cocks and relentless frustration. For women, we never even remotely hit that stage - plus we can get laid much easier than you boys. So now, you're still having solid, enduring lust, whereas we old chickies have....almost nothing, save for that thrill when we get it up about once a month..if even that!

What a draaag it is getting old,
the Love Goddess