First off HUGE thanks to all of you esp Tershirt, Metrik, hcat, anotherdonj, sweetman, Lester prairie and anyone else I missed  

 
So finally created a thoughtful profile - mentioned my education , decent net worth (not too high) and tried to weed out the money grubber types (no luxury lifestyle etc) in my filter - set to 21-40 y, slim + athletic , 5-6 ft, about 1000 selections popped up  

2 days in - barely made it past browsing 200 of the 1000 but fired off 50 messages to those I deemed hot enough but not outright - used private face pics along w a pithy comment to initiate dialogue (Metrik reco)  

So far results - 11 conversations on SA initiated by me , 5 of them moved to text . 4 rando scammers initiated on me I have ignored them.  

Of the 5 , two are beautiful face late 20s early 30s  latinas than have profiled  themselves as “slim” but when they sent me their full body pics on text I am having second thoughts on whether to continue to work towards m&g (they are both super eager)  

#3 — I have a lunch date w an attractive late 20s mixed asian ethnicity lady - she picked , not a fancy place and no ask for any $ before mtg. But she seems transactional and asked me details on how many times a week I want to meet her etc  

#4 — I have coffee w another beautiful mid to late 20s looking lady that has that librarian look but I can totally see the potential when I see her full frontal pics - she has not indicated any $ but I also feel she may be slow burn given her liberal arts and line of work background  

#5 — Then the next day after #3 and #4 , I have a coffee w this extremely attractive post grad chick who seems too good to be true but i have tried to probe her every which way on text and she didn’t seem to be a scammer . I feel the pressure here as she seems totally out of my league . Again no discussion  of any $ so far over text  

As you guys know I married early , only dated one other girl before my wife and have been out of this game for 20y . On the flip side , I look about 8-10’y younger than my age of mid to late 40s and am super fit without being overly muscular (showing the pics helped here in this sense)

I don’t know what to do. I can close business deals w clients but I am afraid these butterflies (esp #4 and #5) will get repelled by an overly transactional approach

Please give me some concrete advice on how to close the deal . Please don’t say just “be yourself” . I know I am good in bed and pretty sure i can get them hooked with myself + some sugar once I go BCD w them - but I totally want to get there first …  

How do i talk about $$ once I know I like them . Should I push for BCD after the meeting or let up and plan it for the next meet?

Thanks as always and appreciate the fountain of knowledge here !! I feel so young again

-- Modified on 3/8/2022 8:51:37 PM

Remember these gals are out there to make money.. they're mostly interested in your wallet and not your abs. If they are meeting, you're almost home but.. you need to figure out the relationship you want and if it meshes with what they want.
Some gals are happy to be on call for a quick roll, these would be the semi-pros or those who just see this as a fun distraction. Others want a 'sugar boyfriend' who takes them out.. anything from Netflix and chill to skiing vacations. Some will hit you up for rent money or car repair bills. A lot of other flavors of sugar so you need to figure out your priority.

They will likely bring up the financials at some point.. but important to have a non-BCD date so you can back out if something doesn't seem right. It can be ppm or monthly allowance, the latter of which is highly discouraged at least until you really know the gal. Have some numbers in mind. If a girl asks for 6, she will probably settle for 5. They might ask what your normal arrangement is so make up something.

This has been discussed many times, but in case you missed.. Never give up money before securing your BCD, unless it's reimbursement for Uber/parking etc. or a token gift card (some guys do this, not me).
There are many kinds of scams and rinsers out there. Getting to a M&G is good but not the final goal. You may find some who want a platonic date or two before they are comfortable, which is fine.. but resist the temptation to pay for that.

"Love Herbtcat's advice at coming at the conversation with those questions".  Fuck that.  I am a multimillionaire business owner and I am going to use savvy sales techniques on a 25 year old  equivalent of a teenybopper!  There is an old saying among hockey thugs  --  even the tough guys have a honor code.  And there should be the same code among SD's that don't have any real money issues - don't play games with SBs.

Buit since you mention closing "business" deals, I'll throw in some closing tips along that line...  

 
1. Always be willing to walk. You don't need this arrangement as much as she does. So manage the dynamics accordingly. You are helping her.  You always have the power to say no.  And she has the power to say yes.  
 

2. Sell the arrangement (the product/service) based on value, not price.  What (time and funds) are you able/willing to invest, and what (time and interaction) is she willing to invest for each of you to get the value you each desire?  Talk about the value you provide and overcome her objections based on those shared values.  
 

3. About stating the negotiation process:  Whoever speaks last has the advantage.  Much better to react to her ask than to have her react to yours.  I typically come at this sidewise by asking her to tell me about her last arrangement:  
- what did she like?
- how often did they meet?
- anything she did not like?
- and eventually "were you satisfied with your allowance?"  
This frequently generates a reply that includes a number. And you can generally assume that she's hoping you will at least match that number and be an even better SD than that guy.  
 

4. Always negotiate based on YOUR budget, never on her "worth."  Every woman knows her affection is priceless and any man should be grateful to get even a small slice of it.  So trying to tell her she is not "worth" $200 less than she's asking is not going to work well.  But your budget is YOUR budget, and she can agree or try to negotiate with you to get you to allocate a higher budget, but that's about you not her.  "Oh my! Your last SD sounds like a great guy. I'd love to be able to match that, but my budget is a bit more modest.  I'd be very comfortable if we can agree to _____.  Will that work for you?"  
 

5. Back to your budget: Remember in your actual/internal budget that her allowance is only one part of your total spend. Be sure to internally add in the per-date costs like dinner, travel & entertainment, hotel, gifts, etc.  So a date with a $400 allowance could actually cost you closer to $600-$800 if you do more than just BAB (Bang and Bail) dates, which I highly recommend.  
 

Thanks for sharing your first experiences with us.  Let us know what happens next!  
 

Life is good

 
The Cat

But I prefer to be the first to mention a number.  I like to define the financial range we are talking about first, before she mentions some ridiculous number.  When the conversation moves towards allowance I'll say something like this:  "My intention each time we meet is to leave you with a big satisfied smile on your face, a couple hundred bucks in your pocket, and a sincere desire to see me again".  This has worked very well for me many, many times.

Yeah, they have ridiculous amounts in mind.  I could hire a pornstar for an evening at some of these requested rates.

And I don't disagree with Papa Sweet either - in the context of his market.  

 
All of these discussions should have a foot note that says each technique, trend, strategy has to be adjusted to the local market and the demographics and psychographics of SB's and SD's in that area. In Los Angeles, packed with tens of thousands of active POT SB's, that "My intention..." statement will work well, but I'd have to adjust it to "... a few hundred bucks..." or something even more vague like "...some of your bills paid..."

 
So at the risk of being cliche -  YMMV.  But if you apply our advice as "how to strategize your approach," then adjust the tactics to meet the local market conditions you can presumably get the results you want. Note that for both Papa Sweet and me, our objective is NOT to get laid for the lowest possible allowance.   The rest of TER can help anyone who wants to go that direction.  Our objective (if I may be so bold as to speak for Papa) is to establish a long-term arrangement that will keep both SD and SB happy. And happy in this context = you like what she does for you and can afford to continue, and she likes what you do for her can she can afford to continue.  

 
There are SD's whose agenda is totally different; They may be much more interested in banging as many SB's as possible and then moving on to new, fresh pussy. Nothing wrong with that! (Duh!). But it may require a different approach to messaging, negotiating, M&G's, scheduling, etc., if they just want to get to BCD as quickly as possible, then move on (what I call Bang And Bail or BAB).  

 
As I've been typing this post, I've been getting texts from my A-List Asian porn star about meeting for dinner and BCD tomorrow.  We have negotiated an allowance that's about 1/3 of her published escort rate.  And she is fearless in BCD.  So...  

 
Life is good

 
The Cat

Lots of ways to skin the cat.
I personally don't like the idea of negotiating in person, sinceit creates awkwardness if you don't agree. In most cases the gal will say during prelim texting, 'My ppm is x..' and you can take it from there.
If you have a M&G without any agreement (to check out chemistry) you can text the next day saying you want to move ahead and then have that discussion.

If I met you in my civilian day job, you would get a job offer to join my investment fund in a heart beat. Just because I can afford $xxx should have zero bearing on how much you pay. It's my 4th day into the sugar bowl after 10+ years on the pro circuit. Fast learning curve but the stuff you and the guys have written are so true, very helpful.

Young girls (under 25) asking for stupid money. 24yr old wants $2K per meet but don't even want to be seen near you in public?... easy pass. Cycle thru half dozen POTs to hone my text game, tighten process that works for me, and its really a law of large numbers as you guys have pointed out (also similar to investment world).

I went into this thinking it would be this grind it out grueling process to groom even 1 or 2. Turns out being married@50 with a decent $buck and looking much younger for my age is the SA equivalent of being a unicorn. Literally a paradox of choice. Now I get why the Tinder generation can't commit to anything..... there's always the possibility of someone better on the next swipe/update

Just wanted to say thanks for the great advice!

'Mouche,

 
I have a firm policy not to get nekked until she does.   LOL  

 
Life is good

 
The Cat (who is still in his skin.)

I could be convinced to come out of retirement for the right opportunity ... just saying.  :p  

 
Life is good.  

 
The Cat

I owe you all an update here —- (from the prior mail)  

#3 Asian (actually mid to late 30s)  — had a nice lunch w her beautiful setting, decent conversation, she was ok I guess (7) but you know when you little guy just doesn’t feel it … that was my experience here - she was thin but I just didn’t feel it — she was up for BCD at her place but I politely said let’s revert later and then paid lunch and we parted on good terms - guess she got the message  

#4 white librarian look  (mid 20s) - she was pretty , cutesy and we actually had a decent convo regarding her nonprofit work in  LA . But she dropped a big item that she is actually into women and doing this just to pay bills. So that “passion” we are after , I don’t know if I’d get it here and then she is only available during late evenings that too weekdays - we kissed and left , she probably realized it wasn’t happening either  

#5 — wow just wow. This is the girl , I wish I had met in college and I wish I had dated - mid 20s , arts background , just absolutely gorgeous but looking as far opposite as you can imagine from a dolled out 9/10 provider  — don’t know how to say it - but she reminded me a bit of slightly less tanned zendaya ! . I had a great lunch and the only problem was when it came to $$ - I would be out nearly 1k + accommodation (she can’t host) for like 5-6 times a month - which would basically max my budget at like 7k a month on just the 1 sb. For all her eagerness (“we are a great match”) , She did seem very savvy in terms of knowing her worth but we left on good terms and she texted me later that night saying she had a wonderful time. problem is if I start w her I can totally see a path where I get addicted and ruin my budget ! Lol, Maybe that’s the point of all this  

 
I have had text (off SA) convos with about 17 pots now (77 msgs, 35 replies in SA inbox) — m&g can be difficult to schedule as I can only do weekdays and LA traffic is insane as you know.

I can tell you  - I personally haven’t seen any -
“hidden gems “ so far.  POTs are all aware of what the market is , and 700-800 + hotel is the min for anyone decent. And remember here I am not talking  about the Instagram type pics against yachts and lambos  or fly-me-to-Paris types .  I don’t even approach them —these women have regular jobs. The ones that are younger (20ish) are just looking for a quick hit and sometimes don’t answer and then suddenly text you at 2 am.  

I have 5 more pots I need to sort out m&g and then a college grad I am meeting Friday so we will see how it goes  

But I can totally see the appeal if you are already dropping 1k + a meet on high end providers — this can be a MUCH MUCH better experience. I mean that lunch with #5 was almost dreamy lol. I have had 2 h dates with high end providers but none come even close to a super hot girl next door / young professional personality. These girls can really engage you in conversation and it just feels so different

More updates to follow after the Friday date  let’s see where that goes . Since she said she is up for BCD , I did book a local hotel Via Dayuse app - but I am also ready to walk away if i am not convinced … my goal is to locate one that I can see see steadily atleast 1x a week and then perhaps a backup  

Anyways enough rambling on - sorry if this is too much but I just want to lay it all out there as it comes to my mind  

Shoot away / criticize if you can - love feedback - maybe I am approaching this wrong  - maybe I should try a different approach and get the $ figure before even beginning the m&g

Looks like you are having a fun, exciting time, and that's what this is all about, right?  As for your last question: "maybe I should try a different approach and get the $ figure before even beginning the m&g "  I have done it both ways with varied successes and failures.  One memorable date a few years ago was with a very hot young blond.  We never discussed money, met for drinks and snacks in a wonderfully sleazy basement bar that she chose, and made eyes at each other for an hour before agreeing to go to a hotel together.  It was only on the way to the hotel that she said she needed more $$ than I had planned on giving her.  Of course by then I was already thinking with the little head, so I said yes, had a wonderful romp with her, but felt I'd been manipulated and never saw her again.  I vowed to never go to a M&G without first establishing some common ground on expectation$$.

At opposite ends of that spectrum, my most recent success story (described in a different thread) no money was ever mentioned even after lunch, retiring to a private venue, and fucking our tiny brains out! I stuck some cash in her pocket as we were getting dressed!  And she wants to repeat 3 days from now!  

I will say that the more mercenary brand of SB will almost certainly ask you, what's your ppm or what's your allowance, before agreeing to meet you.  Tell her you're happy to discuss it, but offsite!  SA Admin takes a dim view of overt discussions about money that could be interpreted as prostitution, so don't do it on site.  How to best handle that conversation is a whole subject in itself.  But if you do come to an agreement that you are comfortable with, it sure makes the first meeting relaxed, since you know you've already agreed on the $$.

This discussion shows the value of a short, platonic M&G, either before or after agreement on PPM.  
If you don't know the price beforehand and it's too high, you're only out the cost of a latte or maybe lunch. But remember, she has a lot riding on this too and if she comes to the M&G SHE is trying to seal the deal and has choen you as the POT. So as Herb says, you can walk away and know that the odds are in your favor of finding a good replacement.

The only thing more valuable than the $$$ in my wallet is time. No point wasting that going to a M&G with out of whack expectations. I don't know how you guys feel but when I run into a POT that asked for a ridiculous amount vs my budget, automatic hard pass. Even if I negotiate down to an achievable level, I feel like all I'll end up w/ is an unmotivated SB looking at the first chance to bail.

Yes sweetman it’s a heck of a lot of fun . And as scaramouche said, you are only out the cost of a simple lunch or coffee in my case atleast . These women have fantastic life stories and no matter if you go BCD or not, it is a fun experience.  

I do envy you guys that can host - your options become much much bigger . Hotels aren’t cheap at all nowadays in metro areas, even if you don’t want high end but atleast something that doesn’t reek of shadiness.  

Another interesting tidbit - I am trying to setup a m&g w this decent 8 type tight body early 20s latina, she has sent me enough real life pics on text that I can see she is somewhat real (although m&g will clear it up) .  

Today I get a text pleading for some cash (not a whole lot, like 60 or so) but yellow flags went up - I politely declined saying I don’t send online payments and happy to meet her to hand over some assistance if we click during m&g. She sent me pics of her empty bank act and quarter filed gas tank. Red flags went up now .  

Even if she is real, it is quite possible she is running this on multiple ppl. Totally turned me off. But to her credit , she didn’t hustle me too much after and said she can wait for m&g and would be eager for bcd also. But my guard is up now , let’s see.

I think you're discovering the difference between the pro and sugar worlds is that this becomes a "relationship" instead of a transaction.  
So your latest POT is trying to create a relationship where she can hit you up for cash when she needs it.. presumably you can hit up when you need something as well. But you have to think about whether you want this kind of dependence. For me, an SB ideally is relatively independent but is doing this for fun, adventure, sex and some extra shopping money, and it seems healthier and more enjoyable. But that's part of focusing and filtering your prospects.

Looks like a hard pass. Plenty of fish in the sea. Why take the chance

The 9-type super hot sb ( #5 in my original) - recall we parted ways on good terms after m&g , her 1k ppm plus acco ask was too much for me . I had something like if we meet weekly and have intimacy you can expect 3k from me .  

Now she has reached out to me asking how are my other meets going . I said they were going very well (position of strength , and it is largely true as my pot selection right now is solid for next few m&gs) - she said she knows she asked 1k but could I meet her in the middle ?  

I stayed firm and said my expectation for 3k (comes out to roughly 750 a meet) was given my comfort level for a longer term relationship.  She left the chat saying she is appreciative and she will noodle over it

My guess - it is end of the month approaching and bills are due , or other other SD Pots weren’t as reliable or whatever but my question is — if she does agree to my ask , it will be grudgingly so and it feels a bit like a business deal of sorts. I am wondering if this will result in a subpar experience- what do you guys think ?  

She is super hot like I said , tall , model next door type looks and can really hold a conversation. But she may think because she is offering me a “discount “ I also don’t deserve her premium service ? Am I overthinking this ? Fire away pls

I normally take a pass if the difference is > $200 between the max # in my head vs her ask. Just feel like there's too much incentive for her to jump ship at the first chance if the initial difference is too wide even if she begrudgingly agrees to my offer.

I'm more prone to underthinking and by that I mean letting my dick make the decisions.  Not a sustainable strategy!  The more confident you are in the bowl, the more you know for a fact that there are other fishies in the sea, the less likely you'll be to follow your dick into sketchy situations.  But overthinking???  Hmmm...  I don't think you're wrong that in your case she may resent being negotiated down to your comfort level.  And the end of the month syndrome is a very real thing.  But you won't know until you try.  I'd go for it and see how it works out.  Who knows, she might find you so entertaining BCD that she's more interested in you than the money.  Very sweet when that happens!

Point taken - I won’t know until I try… let’s see what she comes back with - ultimately her pride may get in her way. If she does, I will go for it for atleast the first BCD date and see what happens.

ok - when I was deep BB w this 20y old tall , thin , tanned body type  9-10 face type 8-9 college girl after having her climax two times already - I felt like this damn  thing can’t be real and had to actually pinch myself : )  . Also I did use cover eventually since I didn’t want to leave things to chance but she was totally cool being on birth control.  

Can’t be real because how can such a genuine 3hr long experience hit me in the pocket for only like 5 Benjamins all in w acco, when I have like a fucking idiot thrown a six figure sum on pros over a decade + ?  And none of them come close to this totally natural experience and bonding ?  

I would have never ever even thought about this had it not been for this forum, where I learned about seeking , and you guys supporting me every which way  

Herbcat advice to be patient is dead on —- this BCD was after 2.5 weeks of multiple m&gs, getting disappointed by the high ask of GPS types , until I landed on this beauty. Her only drawback is her age - lacks the experience of older women so there is that but she is very open to “learning”  and wants to meet me as much as I can. She is not desperate at all , has decently wealthy parents and does not like “need “ this but wants some independent $ of her own while she searches for an internship.  

She didn’t even bring up $$ at all during our entire meeting . I could have cheapened out w even 3 c notes but I left her 4. If I found this type of person in the pro world I would probably have shelled out atleast 7 benjis for just one mechanical hour.  

And when it rains it pours !!!!  I am now flooded with 5 more pots insisting on m&gs and all open to BCD . Also that 1k model has agreed to 750 ppm now - but I am still thinking about it. Thing is the pressure is off w one super solid sb in my back pocket maybe I can be more choosy  

If there is karma in this world hoping the universe rewards all of you in the bowl world even more for your good deeds, lol

You’ve been a huge help Metrik and a big shout out to you brother !  

Totally  … she almost felt uneasy taking the money - it’s like they don’t want to “feel like an escort” . And like you said , there are dozens of commercial minded ones who volunteer their ppm right off the bat and you know it’s headed in the wrong direction  

I don’t want to celebrate too soon as butterflies like these can also quickly find a steady bf or what have you or get busy w her internship and I may lose her - but my goal is to keep her naturally happy so she thinks long and hard before giving it up . Right now we’ve agreed to weekly meetings near her college . There is something so different about a college coed compared to even pros who may be the same age. It felt like I was 20 y younger lol : ) totally electric experience

Nicely done!  

 
Enjoy the ride... because...

 
Life is good!

 
The Cat

90's -- when you find one that really does want to learn, do all you can to keep her.  Young women who are able to shed their inhibitions and ask to be taught become such fun and excellent lovers.  I have been blessed to have two over the last five years that genuinely wanted to be great lovers -- and the process of getting there benefited me every time we met.  Just wait until she looks at you with those lovely eyes and says, "I've never swallowed before...tell me when you're cumming...."

Have fun!!

This young SB had a super brief profile but lots of pics w her friends (blurred out) that showed her doing typical 20y old things. No professional pics at all some were even poorly taken - this was a case of pot looking much better in real life than pics  

Very hard time convincing her. She initially thought I wasn’t real - all my private pics were somewhat posed and individual and she wanted more real life pics w friends etc. some self deprecating humor on chat helped move her to text  

Kept texting her and when she said she was free - I was willing to drive up to where she was (30 min) at a short notice and see her - once she met me , I was sure it was a done deal when she kept smiling all thru the m&g.  She said I sounded the most normal of the other SA ppl that had reached out and also I looked just like my pics — basically  just by not being a pompous jerk on text , you increase your odds significantly  

The second she agreed to BCD, I stopped talking  , atleast nothing more than needed . As veterans have noted here , once you have closed the deal , don’t oversell  

Booked a hotel using Dayuse app - really handy .(next day) used PayPal debit card linked to a new online only bank act whose statements go to a special purpose made private email address.

Picked her up next day from her place in my car and then to the hotel. Once in the room, let her relax and unwind a bit as opposed to jumping on her right away. Then she sort of got the hint and pulled me to her and that’s when the fireworks began. I have to say she was a solid A+ kisser. Well into the fun, things got so heated she didn’t even give me a chance to put on the cover.  

This was so different and was a bit of a shock - you have to realize I have only seen providers for last 15y , no Civvie dating since marriage (sexless now btw) and the cover can be an elaborate ritual w pros. I had to exercise super self control and made sure I put the cover on a few minutes into it - as I just didn’t want to take a chance w pregnancy nightmares

I have already made plans to see her again next week and I am also seeing this 5 8”  zendaya lookalike model that agreed to reduce to 750 ppm from 1k - i know this is a lot of dough but not sure in my life i will ever get to fuck someone dreamy  like that at that $ pt - so I will at least give it one BCD shot.  

So for now I have my hands full w these two . It will be really hard to justify another one during the week considering my marriage and discretion requirement.  

But another lesson I have taken from you guys is always keep some backups handy . 20y olds are well, 20y old and you never know when they may decide to move on to a new shiny toy … so I have a few m&g s planned but i have a hard lower limit on the $ and a higher bar on looks and chemistry  

I just want to close this out by repeating —  “don’t settle “ . My very first m&g through SA , the Asian chick , was okish good looking, low cost and down for BCD that same day , but the little guy didn’t “stir” or have cravings for her — and I passed . Passed on a hot GPS that wanted to sample a few expensive restaurants in LA before considering BCD, and passed on three other BCD pushers — just keep on looking until you find what you really “want “ not what you think you need.

Yes SoCal is expensive , but is full of POTs, and just by using the knowledge base here in this forum , you put yourself in the top quartile of the SD pool — which as Metrik rightly reminds me is much smaller and in demand than the much bigger POT pool

Your success is a delight to hear about and quite inspirational.  Those of us with years of experience in the Bowl are still pinching ourselves all the time!  I have 2 24yo SBs right now who I see regularly, and another tall stunning 33yo I'm seeing tomorrow.  How can this even be possible?  My sweetest 24yo is a tall slim cutie who says she misses me when we're apart as much as I miss her.  Yesterday she sent me a totally unsolicited picture.  She was wearing a leather collar with two small chains curving down to her nipple bars. And nothing else whatsoever.  Damn, I can hardly believe I'm living this life!  Anyway dude, good work and keep the stories cumming!

So I had the BCD date with that model / actress look alike — and I have to say I came away unimpressed  

Yes when I unwrapped the package, she was hot, and we had a decent 1.5-2h session together, but something seemed off. When I think it was a bit of an entitlement attitude in her and also — I kept comparing her in my head to that 20y old sb from last week (my first bcd in bowl) who is super friendly , near equally hot (she is an athlete) and has much less of an air about her.  And she was happy w half the outlay I had w this model

It was good that I tried, but I have to say here again  — more $$ does not translate to better bowl experience as many of you veterans already know  

In fact the college sb is so good and so easily available I have cleared my deck of all the other gps mongers in Socal and am down to just 3 more remaining bcd meets of the 9 or so I was planning to run through at first

My new bar is max 700 only IF she can host - given the high cost of hotels in LA , this is roughly 550 ppm. Which is fair for a 9 type sb.

I have another bcd coming up w a 23y old 5 6 slim build med student , she can’t host but has agreed to 400-500 range depending on if we click (I can walk away)

So that’s where I stand now. I realized I burned some cash sampling around but had fun doing it and now I am much wiser for it. I think regardless of how much you prep from these threads and lessons you sometimes have to just go through the motions once to get really comfortable w your bowl likes / dislikes  

The 20y is connecting w me really well - replies promptly, shares tidbits from her life , no asks for any random stuff (yet) …. since she has 2 more years left in college I am hoping I can make her last that long and maybe rope in her friends too at some point  : )