New poster here.... I also benefited from the kindness of strangers as I entered the sugar bowl, so I thought I'd join the fray and pass along my experiences. This got a little long as I wrote, so I'd like to point out up front that this will not be a blow-by-blow recounting of trysts (enjoyable though they have been).  For reference, my stats are: mid 40's, good looking and fit, reasonably well-to-do, educated, well traveled, and single (which I offer simply for context, not one-upsmanship).  I gave SA a try on a lark, after getting out of a long, dissatisfying traditional relationship. I had very low expectations and presumed it was mostly a scam, but I wanted a break from the past and the lure of young, uninhibited women was very strong.  I don't do direct P4P for a variety of personal reasons, most of which I could get past, but I think I really just crave the catch after the chase.  Since I wasn't looking to transact, this definitely limited my options, but.... quite glad I took the plunge.  

I confirm many of the key points made by other posters here, with my own perspective, in no particular order:

1)  Be persistent. You will succeed.  It's a numbers game, and the odds of any one girl ultimately working out is very low, but fortunately the pool is incredibly vast. Don't get "one-itis" on that girl you just must absolutely have (don't worry, they'll make more).  Furthermore, you don't have to expend much time or effort to initiate first contact. I usually just start by requesting access to their private photos, with no email opening, no reference to their cutesy bio, nothing clever, no offers. Nonetheless, the response rate is still remarkable. For me it was well over 75%, which is far better than any other traditional dating site I've ever tried. But the flake factor is also very high, so the more time you put in, the more options you'll have, and the less you'll care about any one option (which is incredibly attractive to women, as it turns out).

2) Details in your profile mostly don't matter.  I have a profile name and subject line that attracts most women's interest in successful, established men, but no open photos and very little else. Women look at your financial stats like men look at ass & boobs in profile photos, so rounding them upwards a bit will help your chances (and, if you're struggling with the ethics, remember that their photos are often embellished and carefully selected, along with everything they'll ever say to you if you do ever meet them.)

3) Continually adapt your approach (who and how) to what works with your personality, your circumstances, and your interests.  You have to figure out your individual formula, but take tips and experiment with them.  By that I mean how you initially approach, and how you screen your matches.  I liken it to playing poker: if you want to be a better player, you can (and should) take advice from experts, but you need to meld it congruently with your personality.  For example, if you are conservative by nature (nothing wrong with that), don't try to become a super aggressive player raising and bluffing every other hand. It's ok to stretch yourself a bit, but don't do anything completely out of character because it won't come off natural. (One exception: if you're on travel and want to experiment with a little role play, give it a go.)

4) Don't be a D-bag or a little boy.  It's amazing how far you can get just by being a decent gentleman.  If you don't get this, go back to the first sentence.

5) Work on yourself.  Be fit, know how to converse and not be boring, have interesting experiences, etc.  This will benefit you in so many other areas of your life that you'll know why God created sexuality in the first place.  For me, there are few things more motivating in the gym than thinking about that sexy, young thing you're going to see later in the week. Get that testosterone flowing.

6) Never believe what a SB says.  You really don't want her to be completely honest anyway.  Keep it casual, enjoy it while it lasts, and know that it won't.

Those are some of my general observations. I'll save specifics for some other time (or feel free to PM me). I'm also not much into kiss & tell, so I won't divulge statistics, but let's just say that I'm a happy man.

GG

that's good stuff...i have been tweaking my approach towards much of what you describe since joining a couple of months ago, and altho have not yet had the level of success as you, there has been enough modicum therein to provide motivation to continue to experiment.

request for clarification: do you share private photos simultaneously when requesting theirs, or wait until they comply with your request? i notice many of the more realistic and well written bios include a note discouraging a blind request for photos with the promise of ignoring without a conversation first under way.

also, what size population area is the bowl in which you play? i am in RDU and have been disappointed with the number of authentic and attractive ladies in the 22-30 range (altho snagged 1st date play with one last night, but not without a one-time gift) and the undergrad field seems to be a wasteland of scammers/catfishers or not interested in men beyond mid-30s (i am 50).

thanks again for posting.

Depends on who initiates contact in my experience. If they reach to me first requesting private photos, I usually hit them for theirs before releasing mine. If they are interested in you, then they normally will release theirs and then you can take a look before deciding to release yours. If you initiate the contact, they will generally request your private photos immediately, at which point, you pretty much have to show them your photos first or else they will move on to the next guy. Hopefully, they will like yours and release theirs or message you and you can go from there.

Interesting that you get a 75% hit with that opening since so many profiles and almost every woman I have met, say that they do not reply to such requests. From which I can only guess one of two things - either your stats are such that they are following the money not their rules, or you are chasing some niche that does not follow those rules. I assume it is the former, since that is also how I explain much of my success. It does not matter what you write if you seem real and rich enough.

As for your approach, I think one of the things to keep in mind, unless you are a one and done guy, is that you are building a foundation for a relationship, albeit NSA. So you need to be pretty honest about what you want and what you are offering in return. Not unlike a real relationship. I do not mean laying it out in detail, just being clear. But I absolutely agree that I do not want any SB to be completely honest, and while I do not doubt anything I am told, I also do not rely on it being true until I have some sort of validation. That can be as simple as she has told me a lot of details and they remain consistent over time. Mostly I treat it all as amusing stories, though. Might be true, might not, don't care so long as it is fun, she is reliable, and the sex is good.

zig

For the kinds of girls I'm interested in, if a girl asks to see photos, I generally take that as a good sign that she's also interested in some kind of mutual physical chemistry. and as long as she's opened up hers (and I'm still interested), I reciprocate.  And yes, if a bio explicitly says they don't like blind photo requests and I'm really into her, I occasionally do that, or might start with a very short email greeting.  Nothing about your approach has to be fixed, I just have a general framework to start from that maximizes my odds and minimizes the time spent doing it.

I'm in a large metropolitan area, so the field is very large.  I can see that if you're in a smaller town, your approach would have to adapt to that. My only question to you is: why limit your lower end to 22?  That's like being a realtor that doesn't handle beachfront properties.  

Not sure if proper analogy, as I imbibed heavily during last night's date and was up early: My experience thus far when dealing with the 18-23 range has seemed like a realtor in the middle of Kansas attempting to work Malibu Beach properties. Lots of fake/scamming profiles or naive girls for whom 50 is just plain gross and that the 28 year old "mature man" (to an 18 year old) that still looks youthful but has plenty of disposable income to share with them and that they can show off to their sorority sisters is hanging out on SA eager to buy them gifts and pay their rent when in fact the person that fits their prototype is getting it for free and moving on whenever he tires of the girly stuff.

I had a date recently with a 20 year old that ended in a good night kiss and understanding that the follow-up date would be one of extended private time following dinner, but she texted me day of follow-up with this message:  

"Can't make tonight as I just received my credit card statement and convinced the other girl who nannys for the same family to let me have her shift tonight"

I replied: "No worries, thanks for letting me know."

I know she was leaving me an opening for offering up a figure should she see me instead of doing the nanny gig, but I did not go for the way she presented it, and there was no encouragement for me to ask again. That was a little over a week ago - have not followed up or heard from her since.

i will add as to your note that you are mid-40's, in shape, good looking...I had some success in non p4p world with college-age girls thru early 40's, but turned a wide corner somewhere between 44-46 - hair greyed significantly, bald spot spread throughout crown, put on a few extra pounds after years of being fit and trim, etc...that is all after having the field already narrowed somewhat by virtue of my not insignificant shorter than average height...

First of all, GG welcome and you write very well. I can guarantee you that if you actually write a few sentences about yourself and whom you seek in the manner which you have written your OP. you will have many more SBs swooning over you. Also, IMHO a concise "tailor made" email factoring in just a few keywords from their profiles (I do get it that most of that verbiage can be pure BS, but nevertheless...) can be vastly beneficial to merely asking for private photos. In my own opening email message, I always emphasize that if the conversation was going to flow beyond the one email, I would require to see their private photos and then I will also be happy to share mine to gauge as to whether there will be further visual interest (granted everything else which you have said about photos holds true as most people are not very photogenic as age creeps up on them and they often choose and select their very best shots from the best possible angles!).

Now onto the crux of it, i.e, representing (or misrepresenting) one's purported financial data:

I had selected "practical" and I do know that because of the SA translation of this term, i.e, up to 3K allowance per month some women just look past me as if I do not exist. These are mostly the women who are seeking for "moderate", i.e, 5K allowance per month! I think that if one embellishes their stated financials to 500K+ income and 5M+ net worth, he will attract a lot more looky-loos irrespective of his other purported credentials and his missives on SA. The reality is that many women are simply unable and incapable of doing the math! I do not mean this in a demeaning and denigrating way but merely stating the truth. I have come to find out that most women who are not involved in the field of accounting, are unable to read and comprehend a financial statement, figure out gross income vs net and thus quite often clueless about a guy's means and ways.  

Being a younger (but not too young > 35) and single POT SD, tall, handsome, fit, in shape, educated with a great career and alluring net worth on paper trumps (pun intended) many of the other POT SDs but overstating the SA financials can lead to a lot of time wasting chases. Full disclosure, I state 250K and have left the net worth field blank by design. I still get a handsome return on my initial approach and immediately weed out the GD'ing types.

ProfessorVan, do you mind sharing how the contact/back and forth etc went with last night's successful date? I'm in VA fairly often and consider heading down to RDU but also tend to steer clear of the undergrads due to their flakiness but don't see too many in the mid/late 20s in the RDU area when I check, and the ones that are tend to have High listed as a requirement--though I know that's relatively meaningless oftentimes.

I also set the allowance as moderate. There seem to be two classes of women - those who view those numbers as some sort of threshold and then forget about them, and those who actually are doing the math and figuring out what they think I should be paying.

I am pretty sure it got me more leads and attention while I was premium.

Then there are women who seem to have some sense of what they can get, and others who are just trying to see what they can get. In general, I do not feel like I have wasted a lot of time on $ issues. If it comes up, as it usually does, we either come to an agreement pretty quickly, or we do not and the conversation is over. If it does not come up, I roll with it until it does. In principle, I have no objection to meeting with a beautiful woman for dinner or drinks whose allowance requirement is far more than my ceiling (about 500 per date, excluding the entertainment, but usually including the hotel) only to discover at the end of dinner that there is no way I am going to pay what it costs to screw her. But that has not actually happened. And with one exception, I have not been that impressed with the more expensive women I have chatted with. Probably for the best that exception did not work out, too, as I would have spent a lot more on her and she had me in the palm of her hand.

Not saying all of that adds up to anything right or wrong - as the OP and others have said, you need to find your own method. Just what I have experienced.

zig

Right now I've got 3 regulars, two are 19 one is 22.  Maybe some women, maybe most women,  in this age group find the idea of playing with a 69yo like me gross, but they don't reply to me, so no harm, no foul.  the thing is, there are many very young SBs who truly like being with a caring, wealthy older guy.  They are beautiful and smooth and sleek and hugely enthusiastic in bed and generally have less baggage than the hard ass older ones with several divorces and 3 kids.

First saw her profile Sunday evening...27, tall and slender, beautiful eyes and smile - I really appreciated the aesthetic stylings of her photos (call it millennial hippie chic)...She listed expectation as high or substantial, one of the two...I was quite buzzed at the time and having become frustrated with our aforementioned shallow pool of authentic attractive co-eds or recent graduates in the area, offered in my initial contact that I was open to 5K/month thru New Years, which would be allocated on a per meeting basis...included in that total 5K would be her half of one travel excursion per month...the following day I re-read what I sent and was reminded why I need to refrain from MWI (Messaging While Intoxicated, if I may be allowed to contribute to the ever-expanding list of acronyms). Within a couple message exchanges we had set up a dinner date in which, borrowing/tweaking from Zangria, I offered her $50 gas money to make the 30 mile commute to me, as she expressed reluctance about meeting in Raleigh should she run in to family/peers etc.

 Fun time at dinner. i had placed the 50 in a birthday card inside an envelope and said "happy birthday!" as soon as we were in speaking distance, to which she did an admirable job of picking up what was going on. She looked as good as the best of her photos and was rather open - even before the alcohol was consumed - about her background, past experiences on SA etc...I was pleasantly quite stunned during the entire 90+ minutes we were at dinner, actually.

After dinner, I offered we walk and discuss our expectations. Before we got around to said expectations we were alone in a nearby park making out. Again, rather stunned - had a similar experience with a 24 year old last week, but she was not as naturally attractive and seemed to come from a rougher lower class background. Anyway, eventually after several long kisses she said, "should we talk?" I replied that I never on a 1st date give a lady the opportunity I was about to offer her (wink), which was taking the "discussion" to my house (which would be an additional 20 mile drive for her) with an additional gift of $300 offered for overnight. She said she did not herself usually take these discussions to a stranger's house on 1st date, and that she could not stay over night, and that additional 20 miles might put her too late returning to her parents house, where she was already on thin ice for having moved back in without employment.

Somewhere in all this she began to get blunt and the tone of her voice changed, probably revealing bi-polar issues (and maybe quasi pro experiences): "and 300 is not much for an entire night if you are looking to get head and fuck, and none of that is without a condom, by the way." To which I reminded her that she already had $50 in her purse and $60 of food and drinks in her stomach..."That is true, but I just don't know I can make that drive tonight. Maybe I could just give you a hand job here for less $." That did not interest me, and we were almost at a point of going our ways for the evening when she said, "but I really could use $300."

So we ended up back at my house, where she said as we walked in "I can only stay for an hour". I looked at her and she said "Ok - hour and half." Probably half that time was more discussion, then we began with more making out. She looked beautiful naked; fair complexion, no children, firm A/B cup, wonderful hip/waste proportion, couple small discreet tats. Disappointed to find no oral given or received: "too much risk of herpes until I see test papers"...but she had no problem getting into the sex and at least feigning enjoyment without being over the top dramatic.

She was probably at the house for closer to 2 hours, but again, a good half of that was conversation. After I gave her the 2nd envelope and she was on her way, I realized that during our conversation at the park I cost myself by not officially lowering my offer for time spent of less than a full night. Fortunately in the drive to my house, I had removed the extra Benjamin from the envelope that I was actually prepared to pay for an overnight.  

Total expense for the evening: 120 dinner tab + 50 initial gift + 300 gift at my house = $470, 5 hour date. So i came out about the same as 90 minutes with a pro, trading off BBBJ for more total time, and I do enjoy wine/dine with a smart, conversant, still young and vibrant woman.  

We discussed seeing each other again soon, and she messaged me today that she was available Sunday. I replied that I will let her know tomorrow but that in interest of clear expectations, that cash total of $350 was due to her spontaneous spirit of continuing the 1st date in private, and would only be applicable in the future should the date be over night or time equivalent. She replied with an amicable "understood"...I will contact her tomorrow and give her the option of over night for $400 or 3-4 hours for half the amount. i like her and probably would be open to dropping a total of 5K for a couple extended meets per week or whatever, if she were to be more receptive to giving/receiving oral w/out condom...however I suspect her "parents" to actually be a boyfriend, and that is why she was concerned about being seen in Raleigh...she claims she has been out of a relationship for several months and that is one reason she is back living with parents and back on SA...to her credit at any case, she did not check her phone once that i noticed the entire evening.

Addendum: i noticed this morning several new (or not seen by me) RDU profiles in the 23-28 range..sent messages but as yet have only heard from one...after a couple flirtatious remarks between us, she went silent when i for the 2nd time proposed meeting for dinner.

 
-- Modified on 9/22/2016 10:27:01 PM

-- Modified on 9/23/2016 12:03:59 AM

The vast majority of women of any age find the idea of playing with someone twice their age or greater to be repulsive. Congrats on being the exception, and finding exceptions. I have not been able to find much among the undergrad age in my area that are actual hotties, sincere in their intent, and willing to consider someone beyond early-mid 30s. I am not alone, as the other reply to my post indicates.

Fortunately, this does not leave as the only option for me the 35+/3 kids/rotting teeth downtrodden ghetto mom and such. There are a few 24-33 that still have good bodies/no kids/clear skin and are more receptive to someone 45 and up. But it is still a lot of time and effort involved to snag as opposed to the available quality escorts that have become readily available in the RDU area over the last 10 years...

-- Modified on 9/23/2016 12:18:25 AM

but then I thought to myself that since I do look much younger than my real age (57) any woman that agrees to meet with me is going to be pleasantly surprised if anything. Now if I were to pull the hooker act and trim a decade or more off my real age in order to get more responses, I am pretty sure my batting average,  which is VERY high after having an actual meeting would almost certainly go down as some women, rather than being pleasantly surprised about my looks, would be disappointed instead if I understated my age by a decade or more. Besides, I am too lazy to lie. lol

Have been pondering it during my short time on SA...say, 5 years to get me a few years under the 50 mark...plenty of 45 year olds look as old (some older) than me, yet the number beginning with 5 naturally lends to an appearance of age older than a number beginning with 4...

but I really don't like being dishonest, and so far my batting average with the women I have met up with has been almost 100% success with the women I actually wanted to sleep with. Only once did I not get to sleep with a woman I have met this way that I actually had any interest in, and I suppose if I had been willing to put the time into it I probably could have had her too, she lived a hundred miles away, yet was looking for only one SD to take care of her $2,000 month rent. I didn't see myself ever getting $2,000 worth of value, so I took a pass.

I do like having the women say I look younger than they pictured me. I don' think I would like it if I started getting the opposite reaction if I started lying.