"Then call a live female soon and your problem should over...."
Last night, it got so bad (couldn't even sleep and was damn near humping my bed) that this morning I gave in and called my prov. for an appt earlier today.
Well, it still wasn't perfect, not rock hard, but it definately an improvement. I was erect for most the time she gave me BBBJs. Finally, after alternating between BBBJs and HJs, in the midst of one of the HJs: ejaculation! Not a lot maybe, but it got all over her and myself. Not CIM as I'd wanted but hey, for the first time I came by someone else's hand, not my own.
So needless to say, I was pretty geeked about the whole thing...until I tried touching her again. She refused, saying that she didn't do MSOG (which her reviews seemed to indicate otherwise). Well, maybe it's a new policy on her part, but no DATY like last time? No touching of her body? Since when did THAT become part of "MSOG"? She told me that once the guy comes, what's the point? What!?
So instead we got dressed to leave...about 15-20 minutes before our session was up. Our first session was also cut short but that was b/c of snafus and previous obligations. Hey, mistakes happen.
But not today. No place she really had to be, but she cut our session short anyway.
I went along with it, smiling, kissing her goodbye as I grabbed her (now clothed of course) ass...the only touching she'd allowed since my cumming. But I felt gypped and I was kinda ticked off and on the way home and ever since then I've been feeling depressed. The lack of sleep didn't exactly help either. The irony (if that word's appropriate here) was that I was going to see how this 2nd session turned out before writing a review here (I'd already written her a good review elsewhere about our 1st encounter). Was it something I wrote? Something I did? How I looked? Did she just stop giving a crap? Or are my suspicions correct and she just doesn't like having to work that hard to get a guy off?
The thing is though, is that so far she's my only prov ref (as she's the only prov I've ever seen so far). I'm afraid of some sort of retaliation if I complain about her...especially in that other forum where I'd practically just given her a good review.
To wash the taste of yet another fiasco out of my mouth, I went ahead and contacted another prospective provider and scheduled to meet her New Year's Eve. Lower rates and more services...including "MSOG". So I'm hoping that this one (and my dick's performance) will be better than the previous one.
Rather disappointing really. 
I've posted this already on the Newbie message boards, but "mrfisher" referred me to "The Love Goddess" here, and so here I'll repeat my question/problem:
(Btw, my apologies if there's already been a billion threads about this, but trolling through all those pages is a bitch and quite frankly, everyone here seems to ignore older threads anyway)
Dear "Love Goddess" (and any other sage in sexual matters):
Normally, when I'm alone with or without porn, getting it up and shooting my wad isn't a problem. But when I'm actually with a real live girl...it's often as limp as a noodle.
I've noticed this with strippers...half the time even though she's smoking hot and grinding her ass on my crotch, the little guy just doesn't wake up.
I finally had my first encounter a couple of days ago (quick confession: it was my first time EVER...yes I was/am a virgin) and although the girl was smokin' hot and I was super-stoked that it was finally happening....for THE WHOLE DAMN SESSION the little fucker was dead as a doornail!!!
I still thought it was a nice experience...but obviously not being able to get it up never mind firing off definately put a cramp on things. She did try bless her heart, giving me BBBJ after BBBJ as well as a few HJs, but I got the feeling that she was starting to get as frustrated as I was and maybe even a little bit disappointed about the whole thing.
So of course later that night after I got home...I had no problem jacking off to her pics...twice!
I'd like to become a regular of hers, but needless to say, this problem NEEDS TO GO AND STAY AWAY. She's sweet and she tries, but I don't know how much she likes guys who can't get it up when they're with her.
So no matter how turned on I am...whenever I'm in the actual presence of a chick I seem to have this subconscious mental block that keeps my trouser snake asleep.
Any advice on how I can crush this damn block to powder and blow it away?
Dear loneone1,
We have gone over this so many times on this board that there is actually a program to help out in this case. It's called "no mas masturbation" and mainly revolves around no self-stim with porn, masturbation or other sexually inducing substances (save for LIVE females) during a period of 15-60 days, depending on the severity of the problem.
Please don't be lazy and do search this board for "no mas masturbation,"
The Love Goddess
Well, now that I know exactly what words/phrases to use....as a newb I didn't know about the term "no mas masturbation".
Someone should make a sticky (pun not intended...OK slightly intended) about this topic.
Actually, I've got another, more specific question. Practically all the search hits say don't touch yourself...got that. It's gonna be a total bitch (and sounds like I'm in a Catholic boarding school of something), but I got it...no touching the little guy.
But what about looking at pics of the girl in question (pics ONLY of her...no one else...and all her private parts are covered...not even a single nipple) and trying to induce erection without actually touching it?
Is this "legit" or does this also fall under "looking at porn"?
It simply means, loneone1,
that any image you find arousing, whether it's one of a girl or a Mack Truck, should be avoided. You can consort with as many live females as possible during this time, but they must be living, breathing beings and not artificial images.
You're only supposed to try and "induce an erection" in the company of live females, period. You are trying to rewire your brain to "typical arousal," which means reacting when sexually stimulated by someone you find appealing.
Hope that helps,
The Love Goddess
"in the company of live females, period."
So even pics of the girl herself are verboten.....gotcha.
Wow....it's just been a day and already I'm getting all antsy!
Not to mention sexual images are EVERYWHERE. I was watching frickin' 60 Minutes and of course they had to show Lara Logan....no I didn't wank but oh lord.......
Not in a million years would I have thought that taking up this hobby would condemn me to the life of a monk!
Aye, it's strongly tempting.....
...unfortunately one of the monastic aspects of life I'm now in includes poverty. I recently had a bit of unpleasant news from my job. Nothing drastic like getting canned....just what I saw on my last paycheck. That and finding out that I won't be getting as many shifts as I thought I would. It seems I won't be earning as much as I thought I would.
So, yeah, I guess that leaves me little choice (unless someone else finally hires me) other than lengthy abstinence.
For what it's worth though, at times it's been getting somewhat hard just from thoughts of sex....especially the memories of my first time.
Although maybe age is playing a role...I seem to remember frequently getting full erections from mere thoughts alone a lot more often when I was younger.
Agreed... no self stim. Get naked with a real F/M & start slow. on sides, face to face, just enjoy the feeling of her, her softness, her warmth. Start with the slow movements of each others breathing & then add some light movements & some lips kissing.
Let the feelings build naturally... you can start to explore her lightly with fingertips & lips. She can do to you. You should just enjoy the feelings, don't push for any performace right away. As things devolupe, you can go as far as it takes you.
You need at least an hour, hour & a half or 2 would be better.
I don not know who you are with but a 30ish MILF is probably more skilled & experienced in tis but still hot enough to make you drool. The hotst chick you can find may make perfrmance anxiety worse.
Best Wishes,
skb
In other words, you've conditioned yourself to be sexually aroused by something other than a real, live woman. In this case, porn and masturbation (isn't it always porn and masturbation?) has substituted for the lack of female partners in your life, and now you respond to them better than you respond to the real thing.
Speaking strictly as a man (and not a qualified professional), I don't think this is all that rare, given the high price of all forms of pussy and the need most men have for regular sexual release. But it obviously can be problematical if it becomes the norm and makes sex with a real woman difficult, especially for someone with no previous sexual experience to call upon.
But now you've got to reprogram your brain to respond to live women and break the porn/masturbation cycle. Unfortunately, breaking habits and going "cold turkey" is always difficult, but it will be worth it in the end.
Loneone, if you haven't figured out the search feature works, try this. On the main page of the erotic highway, look for the blue box that says "search messages". Click on it, then in the box that says "search for" put in the topic you're looking for "no masturbation" etc. Then set the day range to 360. Then let the ter seach engine do it's thing and you'll find the topic you're looking for. Good luck.
Ahh.....you mean that row of tab-like buttons up there across the top? (More like blue-green to me but I digress).
Thanks!
"Unfortunately, breaking habits and going 'cold turkey' is always difficult"
No kidding! FIFTEEN TO SIXTY DAYS!? Really?
Oh shit.....
I once went for 30 days with zero masturbation, sex, porn or arousing stim period. It was very much like quitting smoking with the urges you feel, but they decrease in intensity over time. You might find after 30 days (potentially longer) that you begin to have wet dreams again. I became so sensitive to stimulus down there that I swear just washing myself could trigger an orgasm.
You will notice the most mind blowing climaxes when you resume your sexual life after doing this. I would imagine it's like having your favorite drug after going cold turkey for awhile.
LG's right about rewiring your mind by making your only sexual contact with real women.
Never had a wet dream in my life.
"decrease in intensity"? Is that after the first week or so? Because despite what (didn't) happen, I still got a taste and I crave more of it. I'm shooting for 2-3 weeks but 30 days? Unimaginable.
I knew mastubation was a subsitute for sex but never to THIS extent! If this truly is b/c of "atypical arousal pattern" then it's like starvation...you want food but your body's gone so long without it, it can't handle it anymore.
Except unlike starvation, there's no food subsitute to tide you over...there's NOTHING.
Jesus....there should be charities/volunteer work for sex like there are for food, shelter, and medical care....get celebrities to appear on TV infomericials: "Atypical Arousal Pattern is a horrible condition that plagues millions of men.....won't you please help fight this scourge and put out more? For just an hour a week, you can help to end their deprivation and save them from this horrible fate........"
"Then call a live female soon and your problem should over...."
Last night, it got so bad (couldn't even sleep and was damn near humping my bed) that this morning I gave in and called my prov. for an appt earlier today.
Well, it still wasn't perfect, not rock hard, but it definately an improvement. I was erect for most the time she gave me BBBJs. Finally, after alternating between BBBJs and HJs, in the midst of one of the HJs: ejaculation! Not a lot maybe, but it got all over her and myself. Not CIM as I'd wanted but hey, for the first time I came by someone else's hand, not my own.
So needless to say, I was pretty geeked about the whole thing...until I tried touching her again. She refused, saying that she didn't do MSOG (which her reviews seemed to indicate otherwise). Well, maybe it's a new policy on her part, but no DATY like last time? No touching of her body? Since when did THAT become part of "MSOG"? She told me that once the guy comes, what's the point? What!?
So instead we got dressed to leave...about 15-20 minutes before our session was up. Our first session was also cut short but that was b/c of snafus and previous obligations. Hey, mistakes happen.
But not today. No place she really had to be, but she cut our session short anyway.
I went along with it, smiling, kissing her goodbye as I grabbed her (now clothed of course) ass...the only touching she'd allowed since my cumming. But I felt gypped and I was kinda ticked off and on the way home and ever since then I've been feeling depressed. The lack of sleep didn't exactly help either. The irony (if that word's appropriate here) was that I was going to see how this 2nd session turned out before writing a review here (I'd already written her a good review elsewhere about our 1st encounter). Was it something I wrote? Something I did? How I looked? Did she just stop giving a crap? Or are my suspicions correct and she just doesn't like having to work that hard to get a guy off?
The thing is though, is that so far she's my only prov ref (as she's the only prov I've ever seen so far). I'm afraid of some sort of retaliation if I complain about her...especially in that other forum where I'd practically just given her a good review.
To wash the taste of yet another fiasco out of my mouth, I went ahead and contacted another prospective provider and scheduled to meet her New Year's Eve. Lower rates and more services...including "MSOG". So I'm hoping that this one (and my dick's performance) will be better than the previous one.
Rather disappointing really.
The first one, and the only one you should really worry about given your original post, is how you responded to stimulation. The second issue is a provider issue and whether she was the right choice for you etc. The provider performance issue can happen to anybody, and fortunately, you don't have to give it much thought- just move on.
Despite your disappointment with your overall provider experience, it sounds like you made some progress by being able to orgasm with a partner, instead of by yourself. Given the fact that you didn't do anything LG recommended, I'd say you've made some progress. Now, if you actually try to follow LG's advice, you may find your problem is solved.
One thing to keep in mind, however is that male sex drive is not linear throughout the day. You can be horny as hell in the morning, when it tends to peak, and not be so into it later in the afternoon. This happens to a lot of guys that schedule an appointment at one end sex drive cycle, only to have the appointment take place at the other end of the cycle when they're not that horny. You may want to try earlier appointments until you've got things working better.
Pick another lady, put away the porn for a while and keep your expectations realistic. Things don't suddenly change overnight- it took you a long time for this situation to develop. But each increment of improvement gets you closer to where you want to be, so give it a chance and don't get depressed about it if things don't go exactly as you wanted, because they rarely do in the pay-for-play business.
"Pick another lady"
Already done.
Hopefully history won't repeat itself (both in terms of AAP and rancorous fallout between a prov and hobbyist).
"don't get depressed about it if things don't go exactly as you wanted, because they rarely do in the pay-for-play business."
My depression in this case is more about how this client relationship fell apart than my "AAP".
Now with this angry denying threatening call it's gone even worse.
Bad enough that things didn't work out with someone I had liked. Now it seems she thinks I'm out to get her....which now makes ME think SHE'S out to get me.
I had thought my complaints about her were anonymous or private enough...I used her name only in PMs to guys who've already met and reviewed her and hence already have their own opinions of her, regardless of my own. Aside from believing that I had been shortchanged time-wise, this 2nd meeting seemed to differ from those described in the reviews (and even my own first one) so I also wanted to know if she had changed her "policies" recently or if it was just me. That latter issue was the main topic of my PMs.
Now I'm worried that she's gonna "blacken my name" throughout the scene because she apparently believes that that's what I've been doing.
loneone1, since you're having this problems, my advice is: Stay out of the Hobby, find yourself a nice girlfriend, and build your confidence.
If you continue seen provider, your libido and self confidence can get damage for a long time.
If you have to see a provider, make sure she is well review, with very positive feedback.
I never have any sexual problems, till i start lobbying. Couple of years ago, i could have sex with any girl, any time, than i start lobbying. Didn't check the reviews, so most of my encounters were pretty bad experiences. Some were rude, some were just in it for the money, too rushed, bait and switch, too many rules. After a while, this took a big toll on my libido. I started having erection issue, in present of a female stranger. I had no problem with my girlfriend, everything was fine, but if i meet a beautiful woman out in a club, and times comes to perform, my penis would go completely limb.
The reason for it, is bad experience, i realize my brain has start associating, a new female face with bad experience, and kills my libido.
The solution for me is to find good provider with very good review, and just go for a bbj or massage and bbj till your brain start making good associations again. Don't even go for the sex yet. It's all in your brain, and sometime it need training.
The reason why you couldn t perform the first time, was not because of masturbation, but because of anxiety.
The last think you want to add to anxiety, is bad experiences. Cheap, unknown providers, can completely ruin your sex life.
Also stop, stop worrying about what people think . I saw you were so worry about that first provider, and what he might have think. Stop thinking like that. You will be ok.
...and so it continues.
I'd PMed several guys who had reviewed her on another site asking them how their experiences had compared to mine. I was trying to determine whether or not she really liked me as a client and whether, as others here have already suggested, I should move on.
Well now she's good and pissed as one of them has told her and now she thinks I've either written a bad review or am spreading a smear campaign against her. Well, I've never named her in public, only, obviously, to those who've already met her and obviously have their own opinions of her regardless of my own complaints.
I've never denounced her by name in public to strangers and again, my intent was to determine whether or not I should move on (which is obvious at this point).
But her last words to me were that if I could "bad mouth" or "talk shit" about her then she could do the same for me.
Is this something that's going to go out of hand?
How much havoc could she wreak if she seriously thinks I'm out to get her?
You already asked this question on the Newbies forum, so I'm not too sure why you're bringing it up here, too.
Nevertheless, here is my advice on that: just stop talking to her, her clients, and move on to someone else. You're just stoking the fire and ramping up the drama by continuing to talk to her or her clients unsolicited about your or their experience. Just chalk it up to having a less than desirable experience. As with all providers, YMMV. Just because one person had a great time doesn't guarantee you'll get the same treatment or have the same connection with her. I don't think I'd ever go to somebody's clients and ask them unsolicited questions about their sessions. That's just asking to stir up shit with them and the provider. Some of their clients may be frequently returning ones and will keep her aware of anybody poking too much or trying to sabotage her business. Just let dead dogs lie and find somebody else. Be cool, and if a provider doesn't seem to like something you try or do just accept it and let it go. Remember, your just paying for her time. She can do whatever she wants to do (or doesn't want to do) during that time unless there is a specified agreement at the beginning. As a personal rule I never ask a woman what's on the "menu". It seems unnatural and not very date-like to me. You'd never do that with a regular civvie date (or at least I'd hope not), but I might ask "Is this ok?" or "Do you like this?". It's all about building repport and making her comfortable, too. Doing that will be very helpful in getting the best experience possible. Not acting annoyed or aggravated when she refuses something sometimes will get you what you want later on in the session. You catch more bees with honey, as the saying goes.
"You already asked this question on the Newbies forum, so I'm not too sure why you're bringing it up here, too."
Actually I think this was the first post ever about this, as this post was about results of my efforts at overcoming "AAP".
But unfortunately during that same encounter, a new issue not directly related to AAP had developed, so I decided to make a separate thread about that particular topic.
I see. My aforementioned advice would still be to save yourself a lot of troubles and just let this experience you had with that provider go.
While I'm not a psychoanalyst, I did take quite a few psyche courses during my days in university. Your frustration and perhaps anger over your less than desirable experience with this provider might be driven by the disconnect between what you have regularly experienced sexually with pornography (i.e. fantasizing about an imaginary woman who will do anything you want, as much as you want, without objection) and what is normal with a real woman who for whatever reason sets boundaries on what she's willing to give. You had said in your very first post here that you were until recently a virgin. There's nothing wrong with that at all, but having lacked sexual contact with an adult and experienced woman, I feel there is a lot of ground to cover in so far as learning how sexual relationships progress, and how to respond to a woman's cues and perhaps even denials of sexual favors. You should not take denials as a negative thing, but as an opportunity to learn and grow.
I am probably assuming quite a bit here about you, but just hear me out. Keep in mind nothing I say here is to either insult you or to degrade you. It's just to help you gain some insight into your difficulties. The mental image of a woman from porn that you are used to fantasizing about is one that sees none of your flaws, quirks, or level of social aptitude. She may be a nymphomaniac that caters only to your desires with none of her own other than to satisfy you. A provider, on the other hand will try her best to create the same sort of illusion that you have of the porn star in your mind, but unlike the fictional woman she can see you, sense your vibe, cues, quirks, faults and social aptitude. Some providers may be able to ignore some of these things they sense in order to do their jobs and provide a pleasurable experience, but I would imagine it would be very difficult for a real woman to completely ignore these and not let them effect her or her comfort level in some shape or form, especially if they are more pronounced. Things such as this can lead even an veteran provider to deliver a less than stellar performance for you, regardless of what the experiences were with her other clients. Keep in mind that some of the things you exhibit during your sessions may also be in a way endearing to a different woman. Finding a good match is not always easy, especially if you're lacking sexual experience over many years with real women. You may want to find a mature and experienced provider who is willing to take you under her wing as a sexual student, both in the physical, social, and perhaps to some extent emotional aspects of male to female interaction and also help you build confidence. Having confidence is a true key to developing real relationships and being able to function normally.
The other thing to keep in mind is to never expect a provider to reciprocate a true emotional relationship with you. This sort of thing is highly frowned on in the hobby and usually leads down very bad roads. You should not build the framework of what you learn to be an honest male to female relationship or sexual social norms on your experiences with providers. This should only be done with actual civilian girls. Doing otherwise will in most cases always lead to failed relationships and sexual encounters here in "real world" situations, although there are exceptions to every rule. Always keep in mind that what you pay for with a provider is a fantasy, not a reality. Be willing and able to analyze yourself, your actions, and their consequences. That will be a large piece of the jigsaw puzzle that I can see you are trying to put together. You must be able to see the pieces in order to view the big picture.
"The other thing to keep in mind is to never expect a provider to reciprocate a true emotional relationship with you. This sort of thing is highly frowned on in the hobby and usually leads down very bad roads. You should not build the framework of what you learn to be an honest male to female relationship or sexual social norms on your experiences with providers. This should only be done with actual civilian girls. Doing otherwise will in most cases always lead to failed relationships and sexual encounters here in "real world" situations, although there are exceptions to every rule. Always keep in mind that what you pay for with a provider is a fantasy, not a reality."
I'm in a weird spot where I'm too burnt/shell-shocked/whatever to want a real relationship, but still crave intimate companionship (especially trying to avoid becoming the 40-year-old virgin within a few years).
I'm trying out this scene precisely because these are not real relationships, but nonetheless still offer some degree of int. comp. (and yes, the allure of having my fantasies catered to).
More precisely, to avoid all the frustrating and at times indecipherable games that seem to be compulsory in trying to establish real "civilian" relationships ("civilian"? As if trying to start and keep genuine relationships aren't battles?). Even those that are merely shallow sexual encounters.
But in one way or another these baffling and frustrating...."dynamics" if you will (or as I often refer to it, "bullshit") of the real world I seek respite from always finds a way to intrude and disrupt whatever refuge I seek. I just never thought it would do so so soon and so forcefully here.
I used to joke that like that cartoon character, Opus the Penguin (remember him?), the world would end should I ever finally have sex. Or that at least by divine will or some cosmic order, I can never have any sort of amorous encounter.
To have the meeting (indeed, the entire relationship/association/whichever-term-is-appropriate) go south almost immediately after I came for the first time at the hands of another person makes me wonder if maybe there's some truth to that "joke" after all.
"To have the meeting (indeed, the entire relationship/association/whichever-term-is-appropriate) go south almost immediately after I came for the first time at the hands of another person makes me wonder if maybe there's some truth to that "joke" after all."
I think you're creating your own destructive self fulfilling prophecy if you really believe that. I'm sure that you've heard of Occam's Razor. The simplest explanation tends to be the best one. Obviously, I wasn't there at your meeting but there are a lot of easier possibilities other than your theory that the cosmos conspires against your sexual development. That would almost seem narcissistic.
Some simple explanations could be any of the following:
* She was tired, not into it, doesn't like her job that much.
* Something caused her to be uncomfortable.
It's hard to tell the exact reason why it became a one pop and gone appointment, and I doubt your going to get a truthful answer to that from her now. What I would do is schedule with another provider who is well reviewed and see what happens. If you notice a similar reaction from her, then the problem may lie within yourself. I can't imagine it would be easy at all to try to suddenly thrust yourself into sexual situations with real sexually experienced people and expect them to not have any glitches. That's like taking a child out from the wild and expecting them to be well adjusted in civilized society.
This is what I'd do. The next time you see a girl, try not to see it as a service if possible. Don't ask for anything, and try to act as natural as possible. Let her take charge and just be willing to receive whatever she's willing to give. Reciprocate her actions to you.
"The simplest explanation tends to be the best one."
In that case, it would be that I'm really unattractive.
"if you really believe that...there are a lot of easier possibilities other than your theory that the cosmos conspires against your sexual development. That would almost seem narcissistic."
Half-belief...that's more felt out of despair, but I guess it depends on what you mean by "narcissist".
If you mean that I feel superior to others, heck no.
"It's hard to tell the exact reason why it became a one pop and gone appointment, and I doubt your going to get a truthful answer to that from her now."
I don't think I would've gotten a truthful answer from her back then either.
"What I would do is schedule with another provider who is well reviewed and see what happens. If you notice a similar reaction from her, then the problem may lie within yourself."
That worries me.
I knew I was unattractive, but I was hoping that provs would be able to ignore or suppress their reaction to whatever it is about me that's so offputting.
"I can't imagine it would be easy at all to try to suddenly thrust yourself into sexual situations with real sexually experienced people and expect them to not have any glitches."
I thought that sexual experience would better prepare a person to handle someone with zilch experience like me. Apparently not.
I also still can't stop wondering if my AAP had something to do with her apparent lost of interest in me as a client. Despite my achievement of my 1st O from someone else, I wonder if their "sexual experience" has raised their sexual standards and lower their tolerance for those who struggle to keep it hard.
Aside from that, it's distressing to think that whatever it is about me that's turning off women out in the "real" world is too strong even for providers to ignore.
Actually, going over an earlier response of yours:
"As with all providers, YMMV. Just because one person had a great time doesn't guarantee you'll get the same treatment or have the same connection with her."
Does "YMMV" also apply to different meetings between the same guy and prov?
Also I guess I'm a bit confused because there's the general expectation that if you give the same compensation, you should get same performance (well not LITERALLY the same performance but you know what I mean) which is reinforced by the constant reply to the recurring complaint by newbies "I didn't get what I expected" which is "Read the reviews!". Not to mention "the juicy details" that TER sells VIP membership with.
This kinda builds up expectations, especially with newbs (in every sense of the word) like me which unfortunately clashed with this other aspect of The Hobby: "YMMV".
So....does "YMMV" outweigh reviews, uniform compensation, etc.?
"I don't think I'd ever go to somebody's clients and ask them unsolicited questions about their sessions. That's just asking to stir up shit with them and the provider. Some of their clients may be frequently returning ones and will keep her aware of anybody poking too much or trying to sabotage her business."
By "stirring up shit with them and their prov" do you mean stirring up shit BETWEEN them and their prov?
Actually, they didn't seem to mind. Although one of them obviously told her, all had responded and none of them were even half as reproachful as some of the responses I've received here on TER. I even had little PM chats with them (2 PMs from 2 of the 3) and one even urged me to mend fences and keep seeing her (don't worry, no way after all this am I ever going to do that. I'm sure the feeling's mutual with my former prov).
Needless to say, despite venting my frustrations in my PMs to them, they all seemed to understand my bitching was just that and not any actual attempt to change their minds about her (which doesn't even make sense....they've met her and thus have their own opinions of her. Why should they put more stock in anything I say over their own experiences?).
It's odd...that strangers who don't know the prov I'm talking about never mind having ever met her, should seem to be more upset at what I did then this prov's regulars who do and have.
"but I might ask 'Is this ok?'"
I actually did, to which she alwasy nodded or said "Yes".
If I was making her uncomfortable, she certainly didn't say so.
"Remember, your just paying for her time. She can do whatever she wants to do (or doesn't want to do) during that time unless there is a specified agreement at the beginning."
Yes, that is what we officially do for obvious reasons, but isn't there an expectation, or unwritten rule, that we should be doing SOMETHING during that time besides getting dressed and leaving early when she has no emergency or previous pressing engagement?
Anyway, obviously this association has a fork stuck in it by both myself and my ex-prov and I suppose we'll both just have to hope that our mutual paranoia won't ever come true.
But aside from that, as astoundingly stupid and/or assholish the questions I just asked sound, they were not rhetorical. There are aspects to this scene which seem contradictory and obviously confused me and thus left me ill-prepared for how to react "properly" when meetings end in certain unexpected ways (although my general lack of "people skills" didn't exactly help).
YMMV will always usurp reviews, because the review of a date with a Provider is not a scientific law. It will not always happen exactly the same every single time. I take reviews with a deep grain of salt. There is no proof that the person was telling the absolute truth, and they seem to often leave out details about what the particular Provider likes, or even dislikes.
The mention about narcissism wasn't about you believing you were a superior to anybody. It was about believing that the universe is so aware of you or finds you important enough to conspire against you. On a cosmic order, we are nothing but specs of dust, by perspective the size of electrons. The cosmos sees us as no more important than stars a billion times the size of our own sun that get sucked into black holes. The universe has much more important things going on in it's seemingly infinite vastness than to purposefully be hell bent on destroying your sex life. Nobody and nothing is conspiring against you, and to me it's narcissistic to believe that. To even assume such a thing is prematurely setting yourself up for failure, so get that out of your mind right now. Keep in mind the following verse from the poem Invictus by William Ernest Henley:
It matters not how strait the gate,
How charged with punishments the scroll,
I am the master of my fate:
I am the captain of my soul.
You mentioned that you believe yourself to be unattractive. That is a little subjective and is certainly up to individual perspective. You may be unattractive to yourself, but you cannot deem that every other person in this world shares your opinion. If you believe yourself to be unattractive, you will often exude that in your personality. I can tell you are intelligent by the way that you write, and for some women they may find that attractive. Many woman are also attracted to someone who demonstrates confidence, regardless of how they look or their financial status. Perhaps you should find a provider that you believe closer resembles the same attractive state as yourself rather than the Penthouse Playmate type. People are often attractive to others that closer resemble what their own personal view of themselves are. Also, take a walk around town sometime. You'll see good looking women with what might be considered an unattractive man more often that you thought. There is a reason they are with that person. What you need to do is find a trait that a woman would find attractive, either physical or intellectual, and work on honing that with yourself. If weight is what makes you feel unattractive, then by all means do something about it. Nothing is beyond improvement. I've recently got back into a workout routine and have noticed that combined with a healthy diet has made me look and feel a lot better.
Another thing that might help is to go to a local bar and start by trying to spark up conversation with women that you find close to being in your league. The purpose isn't to bag them (although if that happens -- great!) but to work on your social skills and confidence. Try to not even care if you get shot down. This is just practice. If a woman gives you the cold shoulder, try taking a break, see if there is another angle you can try and keep it up until something works. Above all, try to act and be confident. If you look like a poor sap looking for someone to spill all your problems on, you will just make most women run away. Work on humor to. Listen to comedians and analyze what makes them funny. Don't try to imitate, but take cues. Women find a man who has a good sense of humor much more attractive. Try doing karaoke if you have a penchant for singing, and really go all out whether you're good or not. You could either make a woman like you because she thinks your funny or because she thinks you're really good! Either way, exude that confidence. I can't tell you how many times I've had hookups from doing just that.
Most of all, stop crying over spilled milk. The more you focus on your supposed shortcomings the more it will manifest itself in your life. It becomes a vicious cycle that can seem impossible to escape from.
"will not always happen exactly the same every single time."
Well, no not exactly the same, of course not.
I just didn't think I would be treated that much differently...from my own previous experience never mind those of others.
"There is no proof that the person was telling the absolute truth"
In my case, and then some.
The only public statement I've made about my ex-prov was my review of our 1st encounter.
As far as most people at that other forum can tell, wer'e still getting along just fine. :P
"seem to often leave out details about what the particular Provider likes, or even dislikes."
That's unfortunate. Would give prospective clients a heads up on what to do or don't do.
"Perhaps you should find a provider that you believe closer resembles the same attractive state as yourself rather than the Penthouse Playmate type."
Actually I did initially, but this one was the first to respond and yes, she is sort of the archtypical Hot Blonde (or at least hi-lited brunette).
So I was bit nervous but like most guys, I would hardly say no. Especially if she was the only one to respond to attempts at initial contact.
Plus, for reasons I stated earlier, I thought that perhaps b/c this was not a real relationship and more of transctional association that it wouldn't really matter. After all, isn't that what The Hobby sells? The unrealistic made real?
But unfortunately it seems even The Hobby can defy reality only so much for so long (I had just hoped it would've been longer than just 2 sessions!).
"Many woman are also attracted to someone who demonstrates confidence, regardless of how they look or their financial status...
.... Above all, try to act and be confident."
To me, confidence stems from knowledge that there's something good about yourself (whatever it may be) that many people like.
I have to have something to be confident about first. Otherwise, it just feels like fronting to me.
"What you need to do is find a trait that a woman would find attractive, either physical or intellectual, and work on honing that with yourself."
I've been trying to figure out exactly what it is that attracts most women. People already know that in general, with guys it's primarily looks (key words being "in general" and "primarily"...if good looks were all that mattered I would've cared about how this 2nd session had ended).
But I'm not sure what the equivalent "primary general" standard of attractiveness women have...if indeed they have one.
Well, OK...there IS something I did notice about guys, no matter who or what type of whatever they were, who seem to have no problem hooking up....other people respect them.
I don't mean that nobody ever busts their balls a bit from time to time, but...well that's the best I put it. They don't have to be alpha males but they're not the type that people seriously pick on all the time either.
"Most of all, stop crying over spilled milk. The more you focus on your supposed shortcomings the more it will manifest itself in your life. It becomes a vicious cycle that can seem impossible to escape from."
Well say "learn from your mistakes" so this has been sorta my way of figuring out what the fuck happened and what I could do to avoid (or at least minimize) similar shit from happening again.
This exchange has been helpful btw, thank you!
**I just didn't think I would be treated that much differently...from my own previous experience never mind those of others.**
As I said, you can never tell what will happen. You only had 2 dates with the same girl. Throwing a line back in and not setting any expectations, good or bad, will tell you if you really have anything to truly worry about.
"Perhaps you should find a provider that you believe closer resembles the same attractive state as yourself rather than the Penthouse Playmate type."
**Actually I did initially, but this one was the first to respond and yes, she is sort of the archtypical Hot Blonde (or at least hi-lited brunette).
So I was bit nervous but like most guys, I would hardly say no. Especially if she was the only one to respond to attempts at initial contact.
Plus, for reasons I stated earlier, I thought that perhaps b/c this was not a real relationship and more of transctional association that it wouldn't really matter. After all, isn't that what The Hobby sells? The unrealistic made real?
But unfortunately it seems even The Hobby can defy reality only so much for so long (I had just hoped it would've been longer than just 2 sessions!).**
Whenever you have a situation where a penis is consensually entering a vagina, chemistry will come into play. Just the way things work. If it was merely a transactional thing then you'd expect no sort of GFE like experience. It would be like banging a street walker who just wants to get you off so she can go buy some blow.
"To me, confidence stems from knowledge that there's something good about yourself (whatever it may be) that many people like.
I have to have something to be confident about first. Otherwise, it just feels like fronting to me."
Confidence isn't something that's earned or suddenly gained. There is no degree program to take that proves that you have completed confidence courses and as such are certifiably confident. Confidence is an aire about a person. Such as do they speak to you like they have no fear of you? Do they exhibit conviction when they do and say things? Do they value themselves as much as they value the most important people in their own lives? There is a difference between being confident and being an egomaniac, though. Here is the definition of "Confidence"
"A feeling of self-assurance arising from one's appreciation of one's own abilities or qualities"
So you see, confidence is a feeling you have about yourself. It states nothing about what people like about you or not. Some people are confident about things that would appall other people. Appreciate yourself and your abilities and qualities, for whatever they may be. Obviously you have some. You're intelligent. You write very well. You're obviously conversational and capable of more than mere superficial chit-chat. I'd imagine you are well read, too. Do not discount your intellectual side as being an attractive trait. I've made it in the door with many women based purely on intellect. God knows they were far out of my league in the attractiveness department.
"What you need to do is find a trait that a woman would find attractive, either physical or intellectual, and work on honing that with yourself."
**I've been trying to figure out exactly what it is that attracts most women.**
There is no one thing. Each woman I've ever met has something at least slightly different that they find attractive in a man. Some it's looks, some like humor, some like nerdy guys while others like bad boy types. Some like tattoos, rebellious nature, political perspectives, altruism, etc. There is no single thing that all women will find attractive. Hell, I even know a handful of women who think Brad Pitt is disgusting. Yeah, I was surprised, too. For example, for some reason my best friends wife, who is a beautiful girl in her early 30's has a weird crush on Mike Rowe from the tv show "Dirty Jobs". Honestly, she can't even explain exactly why she would want to jump his bones.
**Well, OK...there IS something I did notice about guys, no matter who or what type of whatever they were, who seem to have no problem hooking up....other people respect them.**
Ah, yes. Women will naturally find you desirable if you have the respect of others. They want to be with somebody that makes them look good, too. Women want to be able to look up to their man and feel like he is somebody they'd like to emulate in their own lives. There are many reasons one could respect a person, so now you have to find what it is about you that could gain other's respect.
**Well say "learn from your mistakes" so this has been sorta my way of figuring out what the fuck happened and what I could do to avoid (or at least minimize) similar shit from happening again.**
I hope you didn't find any of my comments as inflammatory. I figured a good tough love smack would help break you of feeling bad about things. I wouldn't necessarily call what you've been doing or experiencing as mistakes. If anything, they are opportunities to learn. I really don't believe in mistakes. A mistake would imply that you made an incorrect choice, and in this weird thing called sex, relationships, etc...there is no black and white, right or wrong, correct or incorrect. This follows more so the guidelines of the chaos of quantum theory, whereas you can quite often perform an experiment the same exact way and get totally different results each and every time. There are so many variables that's it's a fucking miracle sometimes that anything works at all! LOL.
**This exchange has been helpful btw, thank you!**
I am glad for that. There was a period in my life that I have had similar issues and feelings as I believe you have. I'd be happy if any of what I've learned could help you, too.
Sent you a PM loneone1.