Thanks Herb!
I'm about to relocate from LA to NYC for several months and the Seeking POTs (using my preferred search criteria) are surprisingly of a much lower caliber than the abundance that is LA.
However, WYP still has some intriguing profiles. But I've never reached out to a POT on that platform.
What strategies do you employ to screen someone who is just into collecting some $ for coffee/lunch versus someone open to an arrangement? I would imagine that if they use the tag "discreet affairs" on their profile that tells a lot? Is WYP as strict as Seeking in discussing arrangement particulars on the platform?
Like you, I'm not interested in wasting time watching a pretty face eat some food in exchange for some cash from me.
Thanks gents!
The WYP model requires that you make a legitimate offer of cash for the Seeking equivalent of a M&G. But the amount you must provide (called a "first date incentive") is negotiated on site through the offer/counter-offer process. You cannot message a POT and she cannot message you until an agreement is made.
Once messaging starts, you can move the chat offsite once you provide or get a text number. At that point you can discuss location, date, time for your 1st date. It's generally a good idea to save any arrangement or allowance chat for the first date, based on the vibe you perceive, unless she brings it up earlier. Remember that POT's who do not want non-platonic dates can report you for TOS violations if you initiate the sugar discussion. She can include screen shots of off-site texts as well. So use caution.
Having said that, in my experience you will generally find 3 types of women on WYP:
1. Scammers and rinsers who will try HARD to get you to pay in advance and will never meet. Or if they meet they will try HARD to get you to pay for BCD in advance and will then ghost you. In other words: Standard scammers and ROB's
2. Professional daters who can and do make money by going on 3-6 fist dates a week or month. They are not looking for second dates and are not looking to fuck. Correction; they are not looking to fuck YOU. They will no doubt leave your lunch date to go bang the shit out of the Chad she met at the bar last night.
3. Women looking for short- or long-term P4P dates. They are open to an arrangement and all the attendant aspects of arrangements that we see on Seeking.
What does this mean for you?
1. In general, consider that initial "date incentive" as a sunk cost to get face time
2. Do not offer large amounts to anyone, especially with the assumption that "she would only be asking for THAT much if she knows it includes BCD." It does not.
3. Once you are face to face or get some earlier indication that she is open to P4P, then proceed as you would with any sugar M&G.
4. Your offer amount strategy should incorporate your budget and patience. I target $75-100 max offers. If she's checking almost all my preference boxes (especially locations nearby and top-shelf physical looks) I may go as high as $125-$150. Generally the profiles with an initial ask of $300, $400, or even $500 are just angling for simps. If I'm interested in one of these I low ball an offer at $75-$100 and consider it a Hail Mary pass. Interestingly, sometimes it works.
If she does not come down from her ask substantially with a counter-offer (i.e. her ask is $400, I offer $100, she counters with $350, I counter again with $100 or maybe $125, and she comes back with $400), then just decline and move on.
However, I have found that many, if not most who don't throw off scammer or GPS vibes will come down quickly to a reasonable level. For example: She asks for $300, I offer $100, she counters $150, I counter $125 and she agrees. This is a POT who probably wants to meet.
So that's the mind-shift over Seeking or other sugar sites. That "first date incentive" cost is front-loaded. Over the course of a few dates, if one or two convert to BCD and perhaps an ongoing arrangement, the $2-300 front end investment is not really very much, if added to the full allowance you will pay for several BCD sessions.
As always, it's important to understand and use the power dynamic to your advantage:
She has the power to say "no."
You have the power to say "yes."
Your goal is to find what it takes to get her to stop saying no. Her goas is to find what it takes to get you to start saying yes. Once each of you have found the answers, you can decide if the deal is worth the cost.
Life is good
The Cat
Herb, as always you are worth your weight in gold.
Do you find any correlation between a POT listing "Discreet Affairs" and their willingness to enter a sugar relationship? I'm recollecting the 'good old days' on Seeking where a POT that listed sex toys on her wishlist page often meant they understood the dynamic. At least that was my experience.
It depends on the site. On Seeking, they have a low tolerance for any words or terms that could possibly be associated with P4P. On WYP, they rules are a bit more relaxed, but not much.
I don't think trying a "key word" approach to choosing POT's will be effective. Context is the key to these terms. And to a larger extent, the entire profile sets the overall context. Add to that the increasing use of AI tools to write profiles and it becomes more difficult to extract a POT's intent based on a single term. The context should be based on the totality of profile itself, along with pics and other data (join date, physical attributes, last log in date and location, etc.).
Experience is your best tool. The more profiles you read, and the more POT's you talk to, the better you will get in finding what you want. But here are a few observations on profiles that spike my Spidey Senses.
1. Waxing on and on about finding true love, or developing long term relationships, or other pseudo-poetic themes is a sure sign of a Pig Butcher scammer. "She" is looking for lonely old guys who are desperate for attention and will pay almost anything to get it. In other words - simps. If it looks more like an eHarmony profile than a Tinder profile, reject.
2. Long enough to have required some time to compose, realistic descriptions of education and/or career goals, and modest settings in pics are a good sign.
3. Pushing the glam life, claiming international travel experiences (like a 22-year-old from Fresno has travelled to Paris, Hong Kong, and Barcelona!), a desire for the "finest life has to offer" or similar are GPS nightmares. They will expect unreasonable cash and perks because they "deserve" them just for having a vagina. Pass.
4. The most unpredictable are the profiles with little or almost no text. They could be new and unsure how to present themselves or afraid of revealing too much personal info to potential bad actors. Or they could be trying to let their pics to all the talking.
The good news on WYP is that once you agree on a first date amount, you can still back out for "reasons." I have declined to meet based on distance (it's hard to tell when she lists as in Los Angeles), or obvious scam plays in offsite texts, or other problems. The accepted offer is not a contract, and the site does not manage the payment. I suppose that if you frequently accept an offer, then back out, and that gets reported multiple times, the site admin could reach out. But I've never seen that.
In fact, on two occasions, I was refunded my offer credits when WYP notified me that the POT was banned for TOS violations. Good on them.
Life is good
The Cat
One more consideration when using WYP as opposed to other sites.
The likelihood of a no-show for non-scammer POT's is greatly reduced over non-paid M&G's. There's real cash on the line and that $100-ish incentive can be persuasive even if she does not (yet) intend to go BCD with you. So there is some value to the front-end payment. This won't guarantee she shows up. But I'll estimate it lowers the risk of no-show by 60-80% (assuming she is not a scammer).
I'll go on to say that from a legit POT's point of view, the biggest reason they will or will not show up for a M&G is her level of trust that you are "safe" to meet. If she gets "creep" or "abuser" or "toxic" or "controlling" vibes from you she won't show for any amount. So be authentic and honest about your intent, never lie (that does not mean tell her everything!), and be consistent and prompt. Failing these behaviors can be huge red flags to a POT.
Life is good
The Cat