OK in a nutshell...I fell in deep love with a client who is married. Prior to our hookup he was seeing 4-6 ladies a week and was deeply addicted to the hobby. I understood this going into the relationship and know that I cant change him. We haD a standing weekly date.After many months of deep friendship we both acknowledged our mutual feelings and he got an apartment (rented) for me.i still provide as I have kids to support but cut back my business seriously.He has cut way back on his hobbying too. We hang out everyday and have great sex and tons of fun.We hobby together too...seeing different gals and having hot adventures. Recently I started managing some gals. They are young and beautiful (I am Mature).He has always teased me about his other "friends" and while it bugged me I knew it was his "game" and played along. Since my girlies have come along I feel that he disrespects me by letting them know he wants to play with them in front of me. I respect his need for variety but he is too flagrant in displaying his need in front of others. My girls and my friends dont understand him the way I do but I feel he needs to be more discreet in deference to me...he is making me look like a shmuck and I dont think he gets it. We have a very complicated situation with spouses and kids etc but we are really happy with our arrangement on the whole. I love him and want him in my life...this issue is the one that will break us...do you have any thoughts??

Yes, I certainly do have thoughts...and they are, above all...FUCK AND RUN!!!!!

Your posting is most eloquent and your alias even more so. In fact, it's right on the money. Whether that was intended, or it's your unconscious bubbling up, I don't know. But I am experiencing feelings of deep anger when I read your posting. If it is projective identification, and I am expressing what you are thinking and feeling, then yes, you must be very angry too...and not looking your anger square in the eye, for fear of losing this BOOBY PRIZE.

In fact, let us analyze the situation for a moment:

You fell in love with a married client - boundary violation #1. Come on, you are a mature lady in this business, that's not very mature. Of course, I suppose it's mitigating that you really "fell in love." That's a delicious feeling. But look at where it has landed you:

You're "hobbying" together with an addict. Funny, I could have said "partying" together with an addict. In twelve-step talk, you're "enabling" him. Yes, you both have "cut back," you on working and he on hobbying. But he is still seeing "different gals.." he's just doing it with your blessing. So how is that "cutting back?"

Whether it is to augment your income, or it is because you just felt like getting deeper into the muck, you decided to take the grand step from misdemeanor to felony...pandering????!!?? For whose sake? Yours? His?

And of course, you are the understanding one. Not like those girlies who come in from left field and who actually are able to assess the situation somewhat objectively. No, they don't understand him playing and they might also feel that he disrespects you. But the question is, what kind, caring and empathic man makes advances toward the help his loved one has hired?

I can only say the following: this man is not good for you. I get the creeps just reading your posting. I am having a very visceral response to every word written and you're not even sitting in front of me. Please my dear, get away from him. You will have nothing but heartache and problems in the long run.

He will not change and he will play you until he's done. And then he'll move on. And you will be devastated. He is not acting in your best interest, the apartment notwithstanding, he is purely enmeshed in his own pleasures, his addiction and his own gratification.

Finally, the thought that there are spouses and children involved makes me very, very concerned. It's one thing to get arrested for selling your own sexual services, but quite another when you get involved in being a female pimp. Yes, it's a harsh expression, but so is the punishment if you get convicted.

I'm worried about you!
the Love Goddess





-- Modified on 8/14/2006 9:56:44 PM

Here's how I see it. First, you fall in love with a client. That's not all that bad, it happens sometimes.... His idea of bliss appears to be seeing a different gal every hour.... You know you can't change him.... True, he can't change himself either....Next, he rents you a room, and seems to expect you to provide him with a variety of young hotties.... This is an ideal situation for him, he gets his pick of any of 'your' girls, and you too, whenever he feels like it..... You now feel displaced, no great wonder....In my opinion, you're being used, (I think you've figured this out already).... This guy will never feel love for anyone the way you do for him....Ever....Consider this for a moment, suppose le busts your little hideaway, who do you suppose is going to prison for pimping? Will he spend as much on your legal defense as he does on his? What will happen when (not if, mind you, when) he gets tired of you and the 'girlies', and moves on to greener pastures?  You're a person too, you deserve to be treated like one, but I don't see much of a future here.

Interesting situation here; I wrote my reply before I read LG's reply, they're very similar. Please don't think I stole her reply, I guess we just think sort of alike.

Your common sense is telling you to run but the emotional roots keep you there.

It's inevitible that your relationship is just temporary and will end like a crash and burn.

It will be painful but you know in the end, it will be ugly and you need to just cut the ties and live with the hurt and heal.

The guy you fell in love with is a horn dog aka sex addict. Sex is like any other vice or addiction. By being a madam, you're just providing him with a great source for his addiction.
Instead of sex, look at your situation as if the girls weren't girls but drugs to a drug addict or bottle of booze to an alcoholic.

Does this picture get any clearer?

You're walking down the path of an abused spouse/signifigent other, especially when you said
"My girls and my friends dont understand him the way I do"
Thats what most battered wives say to their friends or girlfriends while they get beat upon.

How long are you willing to let your pride and ego get beat up before you realize you're on the wrong path......

RH

I'm just quoting you back, except that he does not make you look like one, HE MAKES YOU ONE.
The good part is that you seem to see a disater waiting to happen. The bad part is that you don't want to reason through the consequences.
LG's advice is certainly more eloquent and scientific than what I have to say - GET THE HELL OUT , N-O-W. ... DON'T WALK, RUN!!!
And good luck. You'll need every ounce of it.

As one who sees my ATF on a regular basis, and as a married hobyist,..... IMHO.....RUN fast and don't stop to fuck

-- Modified on 8/15/2006 6:39:40 AM

I was going to write a longer reply but Love Goddess's analysis is right on the money.

You are being used by a sex addict. Run!

Why not let him fuck the younger ones. If there is something to your friendship it obviously must be based on something other than a sense of trust through monogamy. You do other guys, he does other gals and all should let the other do what they please. If you want to possess him he will force you out on your own .

Heya, F&R.  It sort of sounds like you were riding on a bit of a high here, with the sex and everything.  But this guy sounds like more than just a hobbyist and sex addict - he sounds like a manipulator, too.  The only people manipulators respect are themselves, and their "needs."  Like the others have said, run.  You're not going to change him; don't even try.  Just run.  No good-bye screw, no good-bye note, just pack everything up and leave.

What you are feeling right now is your intuition screaming at you to follow it and your intelligence and leave so you can survive.  You are not only with a sex addict, a manipulator and a man who bought you (the apartment) to keep you there and have control over you, you are "enjoying" a relationship with a narcissist.

I spent five years dating a man with Narcissistic Personality Disorder and let me tell you, you're only at the tip of an iceberg that is melting quickly and will drown you before too long. The problem with this situation is that he has manipulated your mind without your knowledge. You likely feel very attached to this man because he has glued you to him with his ability to make you maleable putty in his hands. He gets you an apartment, for what reason I have no idea as it sounds like you describe yourself as a seasoned provider and could be independent without him. The reason he's done this is so that he has a home away from his family and a place to turn loose his sickening behavior with you, other providers, you, he and other providers and now with these poor providers who are working for you in some way while being exposed to your married, doubly cheating, hobbyist boyfriend. You'll be lucky if you get out of this without a lawsuit from one of these ladies working for you. To be honest, if I were and your little friend was sexually harassing me, I would very likely take you to court. Escort agency or not, no one deserves to be treated like a piece of meat by their "boss'" married, cheating, leering boyfriend.

Now, as the Goddess pointed out, for some reason you've felt this need to go from being just a provider to a pimp. Unfortunately, that IS a harsh term as she said, but you will not only be called a pimp and panderer when (not if) you are busted, you will also likely be charged under the new Federal law making you a Human Trafficker facing Federal charges. Not fun. And if you're seeing clients or the girls are seeing clients in your/his apartment, everything in it will be seized including computers, furniture, and anything of any value, because your apartment becomes a huge piece of evidence and a "crime scene."

I can only imagine the charm this guy put on for you in the first month or two until he had you hooked on his drug. You are, right now what's called an NS..narcissitic supply. This man has no respect for you, for his wife, his children, the other women he's likely exploiting aside from you or himself. He loathes himself and eventually, he will become obviously abusive to you but it'll be too late because he'll make you believe that without him you're nothing and no one. Without him you will just be a whore (and I wouldn't be surprised if he's already called you that.), or that you're nothing more than a disgusting whore who does unspeakable things for money, etc. etc. etc. It will come, and you'll be quite lucky if his abuse doesn't include a few bruises.

Rest assured that if my assessment is right, and LG will very likely chastise me for calling him a Narcissist since clinically it takes a LONG time to declare someone a Narcissist, you're are still at the beginning and he knows he doesn't have full control over you yet...but he's close based on your post. You know something isn't QUITE right..but you can't put your finger on it.

You posted here looking for someone to enlighten you, whether you realize it or not. Well, here I am and there were the others. I was perhaps more enlightening because I have 5 years' experience with an N. It's not pretty and if you stay for a while and he leaves, you will wind up in therapy as I did wondering what's wrong with you that you could have been so blind, that you knew something was wrong but didn't know what and couldn't get away. See? That's part of the Narcissistic Personality Disorder..he makes you dependent on him for your self-worth and self-esteem, which by definition can only come from you, and you indulge his Sexual Narcissism by providing him sex in HIS apartment, allowing him to fuck other women, allowing him to leer at your employees and make sexual advances on them. Eventually, and it will be soon, you will no longer suffice as his toy because in his eyes you'll be nothing more than a dirty whore, untouchable to him now but you'll be lost without him and chase and chase him. He'll come back, he'll throw you some sex to keep you on the line as his narcissistic supply, and then he'll leave again..and the game will continue all while you're sitting in HIS apartment, unsure whether or not he really meant it when he told you he was going to have you evicted and call the cops and tell them you're a whore and a pimp and running an agency out of there. Yeah, trust me...you're on the top of a very steep hill and once you start rolling down...I don't want to be there to see the damage he's going to cause you.


I know this makes virtually no sense...I was free writing without too much plan for paragraphs and fluidity. Please, I beg you to try to break your tie to this man. He is toxic in every sense and he WILL hurt you and probably take you down with or without him. You're an intelligent, mature woman with, I suspect, good moral wisdom..please evaluate how and why you got here, what he did or said to lure you in and then assess what is missing in your life (intimacy, money, a connection with yourself, self-esteem, etc.?) that caused you to become his victim. Make no mistake about it, sweetie..if you stay in this long enough, and I think you're there already, you WILL be a victim. If you want to have some more intelligent conversation about my experiences of 5 years with this man and 28 years with my mother who is also a narcissist, please send me an email. I apologize for free writing, it's just that talking about my years with Scott and how he anhialated me for 5 years and finally figuring out what was wrong with him mentally and still trying for two more years after that..I zone a little bit and wind up free writing. Please, everyone who reads this and makes it this far, accept my apologies.

F&R, my email address is [email protected], I do hope you'll get into touch.

Love and much respect to you,

Andi Ryan

No apologies necessary, not here, Andi.  Free the discussion - free the soul.

Your post did bring up a couple more questions on this situation.  F&R:

1) Is the lease to the apartment in your name or his?

2) Was it your idea or his to start an agency?

3) And - Human Trafficking and federal offenses?  Geeez....

Please get out of this relationship ASAP, like Andi said.  The person you are describing is a lowlife who will bring you nothing but problems.

-- Modified on 8/23/2006 9:17:43 PM