I know that two of my hobbyist friends are into this solely because they got tired of begging or having to trade for "services" around the house.
Five years ago a hobby friend got busted by his wife. His defense was her using sex as a weapon. The marriage counselor did get them to work through it.
Example: No Sex until ALL the new wallpaper was hung.
Likewise I'm certain this has happened the other way around as well. Women get horny too!
I'm certain there are many more examples of this but I'm wondering how much this has to do with getting into the "hobby"?
In my view-any spouse that - woman or man-that would use sex as a device to get someone to do something is a relationship that needs to quickly be brought to an understanding or ended if it can't be reconiled-sex is just to great to be put in the "weaponry" category- If as an example the fellow that "Saved His Marriage" was the recipient of this sort of extortion-I would ask-What did he save?
...speak for myself - however, in my own case the type of scenario described, with some variations, did in fact occur. More specifically, there was never an explicit quid pro quo. It is, and has been, much more subtle.
For example, if I've been working out in the yard or haven't shaven - i.e. I'm a bit crusty...forget it...no sugar tonight. Or, in the past, if I have overindulged a bit and gotten a bit *raucous*, I could pretty much forget it.
There are other examples that I won't bore you with. I really think this is exceedingly common. LG states "the person who controls the sex, controls the relationship" (and BS's corollary - visa versa). Since the ladies are on the supply end of things, just like all things in life, the laws of supply and demand, I think, give women the upper hand.
To answer your question, this has had something to do with my decision to hobby. There are other factors, mostly hormonal (on her part) also.
My 0.02 FWIW.
BS
Hmmmm, OhioLoxly,
Sex as a weapon? Well, I guess that's why they call it War of The Roses, LOL. Of course I'd call it War of the Genders, but that's a different story.
It is, however, not that simple. Every couple has its own rules and roles, its communication and its meta-communication; power and powerlessness can shift from issue to issue. Yes, I have said that the one who controls the sex controls the relationship, but that is strictly from the point of one person wanting sex from the other, and the other controlling time, place, mood, etc. for that to happen. And oftentimes, sex in that case is used as a bargaining chip - although some would call it more of a "weapon," depending on the situation.
Sadomasochism in daily life often entails the dynamics passive-aggressive spousal/S.O. behavior. I am sure that many men get into the hobby because sex is being 'rationed' or even 'denied' in the home. As for women, I believe the majority of women stray not because they're not getting laid, but because they don't get the psychological attention and emotional caring they may need from their spouse.
One of the problems is that women have never truly been taught to "fight fair" or "deal-making" during childhood. Boys on the playground are taught to wheel and deal constantly; they have no shame about it and many quickly become very adept at keeping feelings aside from obtaining their goal - whether it's trading baseball cards or Pokemon cards, etc.
For girls, the situation is different. I don't know if you have daughters, but if you observe the play of young girls, it is based on a much more "collectively harmonious" tenor than that of boys. Competition is labeled "unfair;" fighting is "wrong," even if it's warranted; and, oftentimes, girls are taught to just swallow their disappointment and not make waves.
Hence, once women hit marriage, few of them come equipped with the skills to sit down and have a rational, emotions-free conversation about issues like sex, power, obligations, etc. Oftentimes, discussions degrade into tears, slammed doors and sullen pouting for days, only to leave the husband quite dumbfounded and clueless at first, and bitter and disappointed in the end.
The sum total is that women sometimes do feel completely powerless at the bargaining table [if there even IS such a table made] in marriages and relationships; their only bargaining tool is...well, rationing or controlling their sexual output.
Now, I can easily picture a man getting thoroughly tired and demoralized in begging for sex. It's a very "dirty" feeling to have to plead for something which should come forth freely, particularly in a relationship. Begging makes one feel guilty, engenders low self-esteem and is above all, ridiculously unproductive. Hence, it's not so unbelievable that men finally give up - even though sex may not be the root cause - and try to get some relief in the arms of a provider.
As to this being the overwhelming cause, I doubt it. Many marriages are sexless simply because of childbirth, couples drifting apart emotionally, general inequality, and a whole host of other issues. Suffice it to say that I believe it is a sign of emotional immaturity to use sex as a bargaining tool or "weapon," and that a man who is subjected to this behavior should step up to the plate and have a serious discussion with his wife/S.O. - prior to just running off and screwing someone else as a first resort.
What's the other thing I'm always yammering about: open communication is key..,
the Love Goddess
and the tears, shouting, threats of violence (and actual violence) as the weapons.
Unfortunately, many mariages resemble a convience store heist rather than the idealistic reltionship people dream of. (In my case it was more like a bank heist actually.)
That's what I like about the hobby, it's honest and upfront and (usually, no one gets hurt).
I have to agree. The primary difference between sex at home, for me at least, and sex with a good provider is the total absence of head games. It's strange that once I lay the envelope on the table I never really think about the money angle for the rest of the session. I just ave a great time. OTOH, sex at home involves a series of head games that I've grown used to but weary of.
Sorry but, anyone who thinks that hobbying can "save" their marriage is dreaming. What hobbying CAN do is help you to tolerate a bad situation that you may be stuck in. The importance of this should not be under rated but it is really just postponing the ugly reality until you get home...not changing or saving anything.
Lol, yeah. Maybe "prolonging the inevitable" or "preserving my sanity" is more appropriate than "saving the marriage"!
Hey! Hey! Teacher! (Trooper jumping up and down in his seat!) Can I share?
First off, sex as a weapon, I remember having heard on a radio show, where women were polled,
with the question of how many used sex as a weapon? Well the results were added up, and this is what was stated, 43% of women weaponized sex
on a regular basis, another 20% used sex on a somewhat limited basis. another 14% stated that they had used sex as a weapon at some time in the relationship, Another 12% stated that they have never used sex as a weapon, as they stated, that they enjoyed sex, and felt that they would only
be depriving themselves if they attempted to do so.
I cannot remember the rest of the poll, but clearly, 63% did out right use sex as a form of control!
Oh yes! believe it or not, some of the women polled, stated that while they did not use sex as
a weapon, Their S.O. did!
So it appears that it is fairly commonplace for one or the other to use sex as a tool or weapon.
to manipulate or control, or like wise punish their spouse.
In my experience, my ex wife, used sex and other
forms of manipulative behavior, to control.
Other forms included but not limited, refusal to
wash my clothes, cook dinner, ( I had to cook for myself and the kids ) clean the house,
or spend a crap load of money, on junk, just to be
vindictive.
And that my friends, is the reason why she is my
EX! LOL
-- Modified on 7/22/2007 8:37:11 PM
"In my experience, my ex wife, used sex and other
forms of manipulative behavior, to control.
Other forms included but not limited, refusal to
wash my clothes, cook dinner, ( I had to cook for myself and the kids ) clean the house,
or spend a crap load of money, on junk, just to be
vindictive."
Did your ex work outside of the house? Was it her job to do housework?
Answer to your question, is that for 15 of the 19 years of marriage, she was entirely a house wife,
by her own choice, We had two children, 9 years
apart in age.
So it was her task to tend to the house chores,
But we both had arranged to split the chores,
I kept the bathroom clean, and We all were susposed to clean the house top to bottom every
Saturday! by her command.
If "water cooler" or "barroom" conversations are to be believed, this is the common state of American marriages.
Consider the current state of affairs. Without regard to the letter of state laws governing divorce, the vast majority of divorce proceedings are implemented in a fashion that is punitive toward the male spouse. This is true almost with out regard to the actions of the spouses in the marriage or the reason for its termination. If there are children this is far more true.
Marriage is a "contract" in which there is no effective enforcement for a breach by the female party. At any point in the marriage the woman can simply walk for any or no reason and is entitled at a minimum to 50% of all assets and if there are children child support and health coverage until the children are out of college. If you get a hostile judge or the male spouse has been indiscreet, it can be much worse. For example the female spouse can be awarded the family home until the children are adults, the male spouse of course gets to make the payments and pay for upkeep. Sex under these circumstances is a commodity, that is only legally available from one source, and the consequences of using "alternative" sources carries the very real risk of financial ruin. Fathers have been found "unfit" when proof of their hobbying was introduced in the divorce proceedings. How would you like to be allowed only "supervised visitation" a few hours a month because you hobbied? Common no - does it happen you bet.
So from a practical stand point we have created a situation that the weight of the state has made a husband virtually the chattel of his wife. Its hard to find saints these days, given the base inequity of power, its no surprise that women use sex as a weapon. The fact that popular culture continually portray men as insensitive, knuckle dragging, dim witted, slobs who's wives must keep inline doesn't help much.
In the US over 60% of all first marriages, which have the highest success rate, end in divorce.
Since the end of my marriage I have resolved not to fall in love with any woman who would use sex as a control. If I meet someone and it starts to get serious we discuss this. My position, assuming that there are no physical limitations that preclude sex, is that if a woman won't be physically intimate with me, she is not in love with me. A woman doesn't have to love you to be intimate with a man, but if she won't with a man she claims to love there are serious problems in the relationship. This is equally true the other way. Physical intimacy is a basic presumption in such relationship and if that presumption is breached and we can't work in out in short order I consider the woman to have ended the relationship. She is free to amke the same decision if roles are reversed. This is not "sex on demand". Rather it addresses a systematic attempt to deny sex in the relationship by one member to modify the others behaviour.
This has been the singular reason that my last two relationships ended. At the beginning the notion that sex should never be used as a weapon was willingly agreed to. Each woman stated that she would never use sex as a bargaining chip. However it chaffed on each of them that they had surrendered that particular club. In one case about 3 years into the relationship, I was told that she felt pressured by the agreement and that I was only with her because she would sleep with me. So she wasn't going to until she felt better about the relationship. We talked about it extensively for a couple of weeks and couldn't resolve it so the relationship ended. The second relationship hit the wall after a few months when the woman in question simply started to with hold sex to get what she wanted. She made no bones about it and told me that she wasn't going to sleep with me unless she got her way about a number of disputes in the relationship. Then she asked me if I was going to leave because of it. I left. This woman was a bright, successful, executive that managed thousands of people. She was very much in control. She simply was unable to approach our relationship as an equal, she had to be in charge and would use any method to get there. When confronted about her behavior she admitted that in the abstract her behavior was wrong, but refused to change it. Sad really.
My opinion is that weaponized sex is a fact of life with the vast majority American women. If you are lucky enough to find the exception - don't screw it up.
Interesting way to put it. I've tended over the years to generally feel like sex was used as a tool of manipulation.
To the LG's point about 'who controls the sex controls the relationship': there is a lot of truth to that statement. I think that great social commentator Bill Cosby even did a routine about it. Maybe some of you remember it.
There's a joke I heard once that goes something like this: Why is it that women get half the money, 75% of the clothing budget, and ALL the pussy?
One further comment, as the father of daughters:
Little girls seem to instinctively know how to flirt with the important men in their lives to get what they want. I don't think they are taught this by their mothers or anyone else.
When a 2 year old girl climbs on daddy's lap, wraps her arms around his neck, gives a big kiss and an "I love you daddy", you KNOW she wants something.
When they grow up, it's the same thing.
Here is my take as a provider and WIFE
I have been married for 8 years now. I have a great relationship with my spouse and while sex has not been 100% great through the duration of my marriage it has still been there. What has lacked at times on both sides is consideration and intimacy. Having sex and intimacy are different things. Intimacy is something that requires both people to actually like each other at the time.
I have never used sex as a weapon in my marriage. Sex is something that has to be wanted on both sides for it to be enjoyable. At this stage in my marriage through trial and joy my SO and I are doing very very well.
However, I have several close friends whose SO use sex as a weapon or reward. Some use it to specifically hurt their partner and I find that excessively shameful and mean. Sex should not be like that between partners.
In addition I find that with my SO we pretty much go at it as often as possible. Even though I am a provider it is not the same when you do not love or really care about the person you are with. Sex with a "gentleman" is fun but it's not making love and it's not truly ever fulfilling for me. While I may enjoy myself it is a physical enjoyment that does not catch me on an emotional level. I find that the only "good" sex I have is with my SO and that makes me happy. I love being a provider for the benefits it affords but to me the sex will always be rated lower than with my SO. There's nothing like making it with the one you love.
If I may ask one question:
Do you think that your career as a provider has helped to enhance your marriage, especially vis a vis your sex life within the marriage?
My sex life kind of took on a life of its own when I decided to become a provider. I could make a decent living doing a number of things but why not do what I am really really good at? My SO has always told me that one of the reasons he is never tempted to cheat is because he knows without a shadow of a doubt that sex with someone else would not be as good. That is a good ego booster but it's also because he loves me.
I find that our sex life is pretty average. It hasn't really decreased or increased since I started providing but the change is in me. I instinctively have found different techniques to bring my partner pleasure and those are the things that have changed.
As for enhancing my marriage, yes and no. There is a whole part of me that I don't share with my SO. I call "her" my alter ego. If a client met the "real me" I don't know what he would do but my alter ego "provider" is just me on a much more aggressive and in your face sort of level. I don't bring her out much at home for the simple fact that at home there is no illusion, no reason to pretend and no deception about intimacy or caring.
-- Modified on 7/23/2007 6:51:15 PM