Has the economy gotten that bad?


I'm about ready to start accepting...Hoping things get better donation cards.


Can anyone reassure me it's going to get better?

Why do things always slow down when the kids need school cloths, and lunch money?

And sense when have the parents had to buy the school supplies, boy have I been out of school that long.

Oh well couldn't sleep so I though I would ramble here a while.



Thanks for listening.

Hugs,
Tammy

Stock Market Crash

Tammy,
The SF/Silicon Valley area also seems to be in a terrible slump regarding this business, as well as many other industries.

Is it everywhere? Or is SF uniquely under the weather?

rik

-- Modified on 7/27/2002 11:45:45 PM

It's worse in SF than anywhere else, but it's not particularly good anywhere.

Yes, the market is a factor.

But I think people are just plan nervous about the activity.  Especially the various boards.  It is now clear that the LE folks not only monitor at least one of the boards, they also are active contributors.

My advise....  sure keep posting here.  But do a little of your own marketing....  get yourself at or near the top of search engines for your 'product' and your location.  

Over half the internet users use the search engines.  Where do you rank in google (over 25% of the searches use it)?  Take a search of google for 'female escort amsterdam'.  Notice that Kim is in the top 10.  The fact that she is one of the top rated escorts at another message board helps too.  And together she gets lots of business.

Now try your own city with female escort.  Are you in the top 30?

A provider told me that there was literally no work the day after one of the big drops in Wall Street.  Some are starting to offer additional services for the same fee.  Others offer discount on their multi-hour sessions.

I believe many hobbyists are worried about the economy and their nested eggs.  They are in a wait-and-see mode.  After all, we can always get some actions at home (be it self-help or from the SOs)

Perhaps many hobbyists indulge themselves on business trips. If business trips are down, then that's your answer. The economy hasn't affected me or my indulgences though. I'm going on a business trip on Monday...wink ;^)

It doesn't surprise me that business has dried up, and I would be interested in hearing from other providers and hobbyists on their level of spending given the decline in the stock market.  

To put things in perspective, 1973-74 had been the mother of all post war market declines.  Thus far, the 2002 bear market has exceed most of the standard metrics for the '73-4 decline.  From the peak several years ago, the S&P 500 is down about 45%.  Nasdaq is down almost 80%.  Furthermore, the declines over the last three months have been almost record breaking in their persistence and intensity.  

Speaking for myself, my hobbying is less than it might have been.  It's not that I can't afford to hobby, but I'm just not in the mood.

Same scene over on the porn star board acording to Seth. 1k+ per hr xxx starlets are reportedly in a very slow period right now. There does seem to be a correlation between the markets and the hobby........hmmmm sounds like a good topic for a research paper. MfSD.

In San Diego, we have the added attraction that LE posts fake "escorts" on the usual advertising sites, hoping to trap the unwary hobbyist.

As a stock broker, I would have to agree with a few of the responses here since clearly this hobby comes under the heading of descretionary spending for most. The economy has a lot of good things going for it but when the stock market is acting the way it has the easy money just isnt there. Actually it left town. When the market perks up, which it will, I bet so will business. Good luck to you!

should be playing a factor regardless of how the stock market affects a particular company (layoffs may or may not be in sync with the value of a company's stock and in the case of private companies, the point is moot).

Although the economy has seen some faltering, provider prices seem to be holding steady, IMHO.  I was recently laid-off and do not expect to find a position for quite a few months.  As such, my "activity" has thus been quieted quite a bit.

-Hoot

I have never understood why providers never seem to lower their prices to attract more business.

Airlines cut fares to get people traveling.  Macy's has sales to move merchandise, before it winds up out of style.

I know the ladies don't like to hear this, but we would rather see you for a date (that we can afford) than seeing you sweeping the floor at Walmart.

Not all 'businesses' are the same. I remember going to a famous golf resort in the early 90's. One of the hosts said, "we don't believe in Recessions here."

Some of the ladies probably have other 'income streams' - e.g. a real job, boyfriend, or parents. Others have 'sugar daddies' or a group of regulars. And others don't want to lower rates because they feel it will be tough to raise them back after things pick up.

If this goes on another year (and let's all pray to our personal God that it doesn't), there will be bargains to be had.

I lowered my prices due to the stock market crash and have had no problems working.   My friend refused to lower her prices and chose to return to a 40 hour work week.  Its a matter of preference I suppose.

why would they be afraid they couldn't raise them again in the future?  Many of them were raising prices every 6 months when the market would bear it.  But after getting used to this high price range,there's been a lag in their resopnse to the conditions of the last 10 months.  I'm afraid that at least some of the ladies have forgotten that pricing isn't an entitlement, but rather a function of supply/demand and the availability of discretionary income.  Luxury purchases are just that, a luxury.  And for most of us, seeing an escort is a luxury, an indulgence that we allow ourselves when we feel we have the extra money.  The rich will continue to indulge themselves unaffected by the latest economic woes, but the rest of us will do without.

We've had this discussion many times before about why some women would rather leave the business (or alternatively struggle making much less money) than lower prices.  Partly it's the feeling that it used to be easy money, but now I have to do the same work and get paid less.  Sometimes it's incorrectly tying ones feelings of self-worth to a fee (it's just business ladies, so you shouldn't take it personally when the market softens).  But others are only in it as long as the money is fast and easy, but leave for other jobs when it isn't.  Hopefully, the ladies comitted to maintaining their business will do whatever it takes to maximize their income, rather than just stubbornly watch their standard of living decline by refusing to be flexible.

As an example, I recently read a review of a provider charging $$$ for FBSM.  Well just a few years ago, I was still getting FS (all languages spoken) for $$.  Do you think I'm going to pay someone $$$ for a massage now?  No way.  I'd like to see this woman, but she'll have to adjust to the new economic reality (just as I've had to do) before that will happen.  When things get tough, everybody has to work harder and make a few sacrifices.  The hobbyists (me included) are obviously either looking for value or simply partying less.  The providers will hopefully respond accordingly so that we'll all get through this intact when things improve.  

This business isn't exempt from the realities of economics, but this issue always draws an emotional response when it is broached because it's being viewed from a personal, rather than a business stanpoint.   I think it's very unfortunate when women who could get business at $$ sit idle while holding out for $$$ or more.  Especially if they ultimately end up having to take a 9-5 job for much less money because they couldn't make ends meet.

I wonder if they really are "sitting idle"....or if those who have been unaffected by the changes in the economy have been keeping the ladies busy.  

-Hoot

And I would submit it's a good thing your friend left the biz.  If someone doesn't want to be doing this work at a certain pay scale and can't adjust to differing economic realities, I would think it would make for horrible sessions.

-Hoot

I don't know what area you live in but in LA if they raised rates every 6 months they'd be my 'ex-provider'. There's too much competition here. My main provider, who's highly rated here, and who I've been seeing for the 5 years I've been partaking in this, has only raised her rate once.

There are practical concerns for a provider before she could lower her fee.

1. Difficulty in balancing fees between regulars and new customers:  Since most of the fees are noted in web sites and reviews, most providers have to lower their rate for regulars once the new rates are in effect.  There might be a big short fall in income before the business from new customers can cover the lost in revenue from regulars.

2. The Pack Mentality factor: Human beings are group animals.  Just like the pack mentality of stock analysts, hobbyists tend to seek popular providers.  A $$$$ provider that lowered her fee to $$$ might not be seen as desirable as before.  Since obviously there are fewer hobbyists willing to pay for her service, some hobbyist might re-evaluate whether or not they want to set up an appt.  Other hobbyists might even think that there is something wrong with the provider that caused the lowering of fees.

3.  The shark factor:  Once blood is drawn, sharks tend to circle the wounded.  Some hobbyists or even regulars might start to demand greater discount or additional services since they know that the provider’s business is not getting better anytime soon.

4.  The Grandfather Clause factor: Once a fee is lower, it is hard to raise it with old customers.  I have read many reviews complaining about the higher fees asked by a provider compared to their last visits.  A provider or agency often has to Grandfather in existing customers or regulars in order to keep them around.

Just my 2 cents.

Try it.  You'd be surprised.  The biggest problem you might have is TOO MUCH business, in which case, you can strike a happy medium by carefully offerring the discounts to regulars whose company you enjoy the most.  If you are in business, manage it like a business.

Just the facts Ma'am

Where have all the hobbyist gone?

Now this is an interesting question.   The facts are as follows:

1.  The economic slow down has impacted a considerable amount of people.  There have been numerous layoffs, and thus, the discretionary spending income is almost gone ;-(.

2.  The stock market crash has people in a bind.  One bright day your 401k and stock portfolio looks great.  The next day, its worth perhaps 10 or 20% of its estimated value!

3.  The donation requests have sky rocketed.  Unfortunately, that has a direct corelation to the decline in volume of hobbyist.

4.  Better, and cheaper entertainment options are available overseas - Canada, Rio, etc... Take a cheap vacation and have loads of fun .

There should be no problem with offering seasonal price reductions, specials or good customer discounts just like any other business.

Just be sure to advertise the limitations to the offer with an expiration date. "Reduced prices for a limited time only." It's a tried and true sales pitch that will increase business that will create a demand that will follow a provider back through her regular rates.

These ladies know how to enforce rules and limits and this is no different. Make sure it's a consistent business policy and everyone is treated the same on the pricing structure and there should be no problems, only good business.

rik

I have no doubt we're about to start seeing the prices come down slightly. Take a look at the LA board from the past several weeks. There are ladies offering specials.

It will soon become more prevelant as the escort market continues to decline.

on item1: getting new clients in and appeasing regulars.  Not such a dilema.  Lower the rates, hobbiests who would go for the high price tag may want to bite on new rate.  Loyal regulars deserve a break anyway.  They'll probably tip high just the same.  But in this economy, it's not uncommont to have  work longer and harder for the same amount.

item 2: you're assuming hobbyists have money up the wazoos.  Some do and it might hurt their ego to go to such a gheto provider when she reduces her fees from 4$ to 3$.  But my guess is hobbiests will welcome a chance at a "high- ender" in their budget.

item 3: and providers weren't in a feeding frenzy state when they raised their rates.

item 4: what about the grandmamma clause when providers get older, let loose and charge the same rates?

raise you a penny (hey times are tough)

I am not denying that there is a need to lower fees in this tough economic environment.  I am just stating that it is not a simple or easy decision for a provider to make.

This hobby is different in a lot of ways than other business.  If a client is a regular, most likely he will spend the same amount of time with the provider as before.

Most of the hobbyists have SOs.  There are only limited amount of hours per month that he can spend on this hobby.  There is also the factor that men love variety.  Rarely is the case that a hobbyist will only spend time with a single provider.

I doubt that there will be enough increase in regulars' visits to make up for the shortfall of lowering the fee.

Of course, giving regulars private special discounts to maintain the frequency of their visits happens all the time (even in good times).  However this has nothing to do with lowering the publicized fee for new customers.

On item 1: Whether loyal regulars deserve a break is besides the point.  Please check my reply to dman.

On item 2: This only apply to "high-end" providers.  All I am saying is that once a provider is viewed as a middle of the road lady, it is very hard to charge those high prices again.  (Whether they deserved such high prices in the first place is another story)

On items 3 and 4: This is not about past abuses by other providers.

All I am trying to do on this issue is to step out of my hobbyist role and present a different perspective other than that of a hobbyist.

Many ladies publicly offer discounts to repeat visitors to specifically encourage the type of revenue stream that entails less risk than meeting a new client.  Or to encourage enjoyable regulars to frequent the lady more often.  I was specifically NOT talking about the broadly based "come one, come all, clearance sale" which DOES tend to cheapen the lady's image in the market.

I was talking about TARGETTED discounting - either for clients who come well referred, or with whom the lady has already established a rapport.

I know several ladies who have left their initial fee structures at $350 or $400 an hour, or $600 for a 2 hour minimum, but who will GLADLY see trusted regulars for $200-250, or else provide a 1.5 - 2 hour date to a regular for the cost of a 1 hour date for a newbie.  Or a 4 hour dinner date for the cost of a newbie's 2 hour session.  Nobody suggested a clearance sale.  Just intelligent, targetted marketing.

Business is business and fundamental economic concepts apply to ALL businesses.  I always see providers make the quote that this hobby is different from other business; it is not!

if escorting is like any other business, then it makes sense to discount repeat customers -- i know a few providers in the bay area who do this. (alternately, they provide more service, fs instead of massage, to known customers.)

it's just good business: there's no customer acquisition cost (callbacks, noshows, nattering about what you provide and why), much reduced client uncertainty (looks, cleanliness, manners, nuttiness, etc.), reduced health risk (if you are the primary/only provider), relative stability in demand, etc.

the fact that escorts *don't* lower prices means that they're running basically on a one-shot customer model, and expect health and personal risks to be fixed no matter who they see. or, that they're just dumb business people.

as for lowering prices because of the overall economy ... that's really a market share tactic, in the fear that another business may take your clients on cost considerations alone, or that you will crash on a cash flow shortfall or inventory overhang. however, since we've already determined that escorts approach their business as one-shot customers, and we can assume they could make money some other way if they had to and don't have any inventory sitting on the shelves, those considerations don't really matter.

the economy is sorta ok, but the realities of investments and cash flows are going to be bad for some time to come.

I think dman is right on this.  And this is a business like every other business.  If the lady has kept her cash outflow in check during the good times she may be able to live with less business and wait for the market to improve.  If she has locked herself into spending everything she made during the good times then she has some tough decisions to make.  

1. Find a way such as lowering rates and handling more volume to keep her income level intact.

2. Do nothing different and hope things turn around before she has to declare bankruptcy.

3. Get out of the business and find another job that pays her as well.  This may prove difficult because $75,000 in tax free money is almost the same as earning $150,000 in California after having all the income taxes deducted from your pay.

I am sure that there may be a few other options.

Also the ideas of the sharks circling in the water happens in real business everyday.  Many employers love to see their employee with a wife, two kids and a nice big mortgage payment.  This is especially true if they are paying him a little bit more than he could make elsewhere for the same job (aka being bought out of the marketplace).  Then they can make demands on your time and demand that you do things that are unethical or illegal and you are stuck between a rock and a hard spot.  

There is a "point of diminishing return" on both the high and low end of the price scale.  You need to stay within those parameters.  You can lower your price to increase revenue but not too low or you lose money.  In a good market, you can raise prices but not too high or you lose money.

For instance, I have a friend who is younger and has a better body but she charges $60 more an hour than I do.  I make a LOT more money than she does by the end of the month.

How many times have we heard a new girl say something about how she "wouldn't do it" for less than say $1000 because she is a "$1000 girl"...nonsense!  They can't get that unless a man is willing to pay it.  The men are the $1000 clients.

Many providers have a difficult time detaching from the price they charge and it gets tangled up in their self-image and self-esteem.  

Its a business...that is all it is just like you said.

like the saying goes there is no such thing as a $1000 girl only $1000 clients.