Dictionaries define this as "dispute or wrangling over the price of something"...

"Haggling" is a much-abused term in this hobby. Some ladies won't allow you to mention price, even in the face of conflicting rates. Others will let you negotiate, but you never know.  

You could have avoided it. It sounds like you mentioned the possibility of a lower rate twice. She heard you the first time.

...do you mean "it was no longer in my budget?"  You apparently had the money when you made the appointment but then something happened - you gambled it away or you were robbed at gunpoint?  You're a time waster.  You made the appointment knowing full well how much it cost but then you tried to get her to reduce her price, figuring she wouldn't want to lose the entire amount for the time she reserved for you.

multi-hour date, maybe including dinner out or whatever.  I have always had a concern with providers that want the same hourly rate for social time as for bedroom time.  Perhaps I was spoiled by a now-retired UCLA co-ed working her way through school that had a $400/hr rate for bedroom time but would piggyback up to three hours of social time for dinner at $75/hr if I booked two hours of bedroom time.  It certainly stretched my hobby budget and allowed me to see her more often and still feel like we had social time to improve our connection.  From my own experience, a few hours of social time over dinner does much more to build a connection with a provider than a hour of banging away in the bedroom.  I think many providers overlook the opportunity to build long-term relationships by not factoring in a price incentive for additional time beyond one or two hour sessions.  

This is not, nor has it been my MO, I had 10+ vouchers on that site all who were paid in full.  

but from your side of what happened, I think your biggest mistake was reiterating your willingness to see her at a lower rate. Just because the offer to negotiate was only "implied" and not overt haggling. You probably should have stopped at asking once.

This is why I rarely see girls over $400/hr.  Have always been disappointed when I did.  Some seem to think their pussy is lined with gold and should get a high price.  Granted, many higher-priced girls are very hot-looking, but tend to neutralize that quality with their phoniness and bad attitude.

she is BSC MOST of the time.

..your logic is tortuous. You haggled. End of story.

A lot of guys every year by the 1000s are hobbying outside of the US because of drama.  Sounds like the provider is full of BS.

And I rule against you. You haggled, bargained, negotiated, etc whatever term makes you sleep at night.

...provider?  The OP didn't mention the city, state or even the country where the provider is located.  He refers to himself as a "punter" so she could be anywhere in the world.  Get a hold of yourself, CDL, that BSC provider you're "thinking of" seems to be preoccupying your thoughts.

I think too many people get wrapped up trying to prove that they're right, rather than taking the shortest path to what they really want.

Makes you seem like a mere timewaster. Like, 'Oh, a month ago I REALLY wanted to see you. But, now that I didn't get that new lawnmower for Christmas, I'm not feeling it so much.'  

This really is a simple arrangement. You choose a lady based upon her photos, reviews, rates; you request an appointment, if she accepts then you arrive on time well groomed with an envelope which is filled based upon her posted rate for the appointment you requested. Then have fun.

But the last line sums this up perfectly:

Your ex-wife told me.

You did do something Wrong;

Sometimes my tongue dislodges a piece into my mouth and that shit goes for big coin on the open market, pending Trump's daily tweet of course

I'm tired of telling you that I almost felt sorry for you.  But hearing your ex's POV has been a revelation.

If I'm whining here at all... which I don't think that I am... its certainly NOT because she didn't find my suggestion appealing...  Its not because "I didn't get my way" or "I failed at negotiating"... That would indeed be pathetic...

Everyone has a deal going.  You're just not approaching it correctly.

Or you can just stop digging.

Me THINKING I have one doesn't make it happen any more than for a provider to think her pussy is lined in gold.

And after the notice that you needed to cancel that's when you should have followed the suggestion.

Yes, her actions were likely done out of spite. Yes, it was overkill. After all, you did not steal from her... you are not proven to be dangerous.

So you go back to the verification site and tell your story. While I suspect it would be a complete waste you could also send a very polite apology letting her know when you have secured the funding you would love to see her at her full price and explain you think her reaction was to your poor communications and ask if she would retract the complaint.

If you offered to substitute a BJ for some of the money he would at least hear your proposition without going berserk. He may ultimately turn you down, but that's his choice. At least you gave him an option like the OP did to 'bitch."  I think in retrospect he shouldn't have not repeated his proposition, but I think her reaction was way out of line.  All she had to say was "no thank you."  Instead, She filed a formal complaint with P411 and got his account closed. How is that NOT a gross overreaction?

-- Modified on 12/27/2016 1:46:54 PM

That's how delusional people like you think. BTW if it P411 that you got kicked off of, it takes A LOT for Gina to kick a guy off. And just because a lady complains to Gina does NOT mean Gina listens to the lady and complies. Gina makes up her own mind. The only bitch here is the whiny one that started this thread.

She wanted to warn people?  By having my account deleted?  I had plenty of OKs... women who had been paid and left alive and happy. I've had plenty of people decide I'm DNS, that's their business.  This didn't do any public service... this wasn't altruism... this was utter bullshit behavior for selfish spiteful reasons.

I'm in no way God's gift to Women, but my penis is.

Just call her BITCH, you don't think it was pretty easy to narrow it down?  You're right, I could be wrong, but I don't think so.

Y U MAD BRO? YOU SEEM MAD. Y U MAD?

A classy professional and a self-absorbed bitch.  Unfortunately, many young providers don't think they have anything to learn from someone with your kind of experience, and so they will continue to hurt their own business by being retaliatory rather than ignoring and letting go as you suggest.

Somehow I am having a problem believing that your account was suspended because of a hooker whining that you haggle.  I haggle with everything in life (as most here do...even those mangina's who claim they would never negotiate)...that's just the way life is played.

By having your credentials revoked.  I think it also cast P411 in a negative light for giving a provider so much power without asking for your side if the story. If I was ever going to consider getting registered with P411, I certainly wouldn't consider it after hearing this.

That's the bare minimum.  

And your whining. Gina OFTEN sides with the guys on her site so if she kicked you off, hey it's on you bro! Unrealistic opinions , YEP that's you. Deceiving yourself into believing you did nothing wrong, you didn't haggle, you aren't whining, the gal who complained is the guilty party.... You fit the bill and then some.  

I just posted on this topic, as did Stephanie. It's extremely rare for Gina to side with a provider over a client, even over more momentous disputes (shorting money, trying to force BBFS). In fact, I've never heard of her doing so. Yet, I've heard plenty of stories of Gina siding with the CLIENT over the PROVIDER (since the clients are the ones who pay for membership).  

Oh,  you didn't hear me.  Let me repeat what I said.  
You are cordially invited the opportunity to give me a lower price.  

And how did she accomplish that?  I still have good references.  I still have providers willing to see me.  I just don't have that account.  Even if my version of events is wildly false... she didn't succeed in warning anyone or preventing me from seeing other local providers in any way.

vindictive provider may have made stuff up since the penalty was so severe?  That is certainly feasible.  All the more reason she is a real bitch.

Here goes, Tobi is not the only one here who is a bit "cunty"  

Girls have reported MORE severe offenses, and there were no repercussions to the client.

I also agree with HD...I read your post and picked up that you implicitly communicated that she lower her price twice, in two separate exchanges. Once when you first brought it up and a second time in your response, basically suggesting you're worth giving up some $$$ for the opportunity to spend time with you. LOL. All she probably heard was - I dont have the money to pay you, but you can see me if you're willing to lower your price, and come to think of it, you should give up some cash to spend time with me, because I'm that awesome. Sure, it was passive, you threw it out, but the second response crossed over to persistence and had a sprinkle of arrogance to it. Seems harsh though to get dumped by a verification service if it happened exactly as you say. I've been with P411 for 8 years and never had any issues.

and if she had any doubts about her decision earlier, I am sure the OP has removed ANY lingering doubts she might have had.  

No one accuses me on my main account of having problems with women... that's the point of an alias right?  To say things that you know aren't going to be well received.  People have all kinds of fucked up biases... they just don't voice them.  

I'll go a step further. You were very petty at ur haggling. Sorry.  

CynicalPunter is our revered Founder.

I wish you had not attempted to negotiate, twice, and had stopped communicating and moved on to another provider.

Where did the idea come from that this involves p411?  Why would P411 care about haggling?  That's really outside its area of concern.

... and to let her know if you decided to indulge. That really should have been the end of the discussion.

When I worked in retail, I was sitting at my station, looking in front of me and this nicely dressed, fairly-attractive thin woman with long reddish hair crossed my line of sight. She was walking towards me and to my right where the exit doors were. A few seconds had passed and she blurted out at me, “If your face was a garbage can, I’d throw this at you.” She had what appeared to be a small crumbled paper in her hand. Then she made her way towards the exit and left the store. The whole incident from when I first saw her to her exit lasted no more than 10 seconds. I never saw her again.

It's never okay for us guys to suggest, negotiate, intimate, hint, offer, haggle, regatear, reminisce over old price points, bargain, nor anything resembling coming up with a lower price than what's advertised. She actually cut you some slack on your first hint. Not on your second. Hell hath no fury than a provider haggled.  

I can only imagine the language this guy used to express his unhappiness about getting the boot. Now he's babbling more negatives degrading comments about this woman. He reminds me of the type that won't let this go with her as he clearly hasn't done so yet. This is becoming creepy on his part.

You did the old trick. Book a date agreeing to the full rate so she will hold the time slot, and when time gets close, she's already "counted the money in her head," and can't fill the slot - so voila - at least she gets something. Now she didn't fall for it, so you got butt hurt that you got called out and beat in your own game by a girl. lol!

Excuse me?  I did no such thing.  How about you go fuck yourself?

You are manipulative. Unfortunately, your manipulation didn't work, and you are crying like a little baby.

Your projections say more about you than they do about me.

Never mention your bank account and whether you have the funds. Never suggest that a lady indulge herself to meet you at your level. This only comes off as cocky and rude.

Great post!
 

Suck it up. Grow a pair and as Jack said STFU.

there is a saying:

"I was not trying to GET her to lower her price, I was offering her the opportunity to"

Great idea! One rate for dinner, another rate for play. How would you propose that to a provider without it being misconstrued as haggling?

It would not surprise me that the OP has left enough bread crumbs for the hooker community to figure out who he is. and it is my sincere hope they do and he ends up on every one of your DNS lists.

People often leave out critical details and spin their story in their favor. I'm sure I'm preaching to the choir.

And I don't believe in hell.

You asked a simple question, is what you described haggling? Which even based upon "your spin", the overwhelming answer from posters on here is "yes".

Your "point" has absolutely NOTHING to do with what the rest of us are talking about.

Courtney, How about you go fuck yourself? I'd pay you to watch, lol

*just did*

So many people floundering, wasting time being bitter, trying to "make others pay", playing the victim - when they can be doing something about their situation.

look for providers with rate structures that drop off dramatically when you get up around four hours.  Same idea.  Saw one recently that was 400/1hr, 700/2hrs, 900/3hrs and 1000/4hrs. She obviously understands the value in the social time.  No one is going to keep screwing for 4 hours, so the declining rate accounts for the "down" time (no pun intended), which allows the provider in my example to milk 300 more out of a two hour session, and makes it a justifiable expenditure for the "company" of a beautiful woman, beyond the active playtime,  for the hobbyist.  There are some providers out there that get it, you just have to look for them. I have maintained for years from my own experiences that long-term relationships with providers are cultivated more during social time than sex time, similar to civvie relationships.  Its the blending of objectivity (sex) and subjectivity (social) that gets the hobbyist to see the provider as a real person rather than just a warm place to park their dick.

I was wondering if it was a P411 issue. Gina doesn't just pull a membership because of a provider's side of the story. We all know P411 deals with a lot of providers, and I'm sure a lot of ones who are doing some shady shit.

-- Modified on 12/28/2016 1:05:04 PM

I would really love for "The Bitch" who got him kicked off P 411 were to come on here and tell her side of the story, I bet you it would be VERY entertaining and much different that the tale he has told us.

I've had issues with a P411 gentleman before and basically unless they assault you and you provide physical evidence like photos, Gina won't do anything. There was a guy in my area that finally had so many complaints against him that his account was finally revoked. I'm assuming the OP either had a slow, consistent build up of complaints against him or he flat out did something horrible like threatening the provider.

There's many levels of complaining here, and you've only touched on a couple of them. His first problem is not going by common hooker parlance, which deems basically any form of negotiation initiated by the john "haggling" (which is an abuse of English, but whatever). Certainly an obvious ploy to get her to lower her price qualifies. Then there's being a bad negotiator on top of it, which you're right in saying gives him all the less reason to complain.  

Any woman who is smarter than the one trying to play her is a "bitch". lol!

B.S. I've done it, gotten away with it, and I'm a relative newbie. Even for the hobbyland definition of "haggling" your strictures are totally lopsided.  

He pokes more bears than ladies!

whiny bitch got caught ... lol.

-- Modified on 12/28/2016 5:51:49 PM

-- Modified on 12/28/2016 5:56:56 PM

If you feel someone over charges you just don't see them plain and simple.

Some well above. Some people don't want to see "that guy". lol!

-- Modified on 12/28/2016 4:27:21 PM

You're getting pretty much the same response from everyone. You started this asking for our view. If you don't like what you're hearing you have two reasonable options: 1) take the advice given and move on or 2) STFU and go have a beer to cry in.

Agreed

based on a lot of conversations I've had with ladies who do say "oh sure, of course!" to the client, it doesn't make 'em wet by any means lol!

I am concerned with how wet it makes them insofar as I want them to be in the swing of things, if you know what I mean. I wouldn't presume they're always happy to see me, but I've never been in a session where I got the idea she was thinking, "I can't believe I'm leaving $50 on the table."  

An atf’s ad clearly denoted that grandfathering was always available. When her rates went up $50, I asked about it. She said if I paid the new rate this time, I’d be grandfathered forever at the old rate. So I paid the new rate, and then for the next session, I brought the old rate. She went ballistic in an email after that next session. I reminded her of what she had said. She remembered, and calmed down. The next time I asked for a session, she was unavailable. After two more times of being unavailable, I got the message. Because of my negative experience with grandfathering, I’ll never bring it up again. I’ll simply pay the new rate, or quietly move on. All my hobby rules come from negative experiences. Glad yours was positive.  

A few on the thread have made mention of P411.  Were you, in fact, booted from P411 or from another site?  Asking.. because my opinion on the matter will fluctuate based on this

Answer: Haggling is what you epically failed at in this situation. Yup, you were haggling. Badly. But you already knew that. That's why you're here in alias. Clod.

Was not an attempted negotiation (which is absolutely, by definition, what you were doing with your first message to her), but rather your incredibly goofy nonsensical 2nd reply to her: "if she wanted to indulge herself in me, to let me know."

I see we are ending the year with a double dose of dogpiling and virtue signaling.

I wouldn't reverse-grandfather, no. But I wouldn't hold it against a lady for asking. A provider has, in fact, upped the price on me after an appointment had been set. Those were special circumstances, and I didn't hold it against her.

By the way, you could just as easily have used that bad experience to formulate the rule that you always confirm the rate beforehand. Or at least bring enough to cover the lady's regular rate and ask about it at the session, if you are paying any kind of special rate. Your mistake was as much not allowing for her forgetfulness (if that's really what happened) as deigning to negotiate.

We didn't see the actual exchange, just his paraphrase. He said she brought up indulgence (him indulging in her), and he could have just been mirroring her language. Judging by his writing skills in general, he was probably doing so poorly. But I wouldn't get carried away with how sleezy you think he was being. It would be another thing if he had brought it up out of the blue.

Since you cancelled the appointment well in advance, I don't see why you felt the need to provide an explanation for the cancellation. If she's out of your budget, just make an appointment with a well-reviewed girl who fits your budget. You don't owe her an explanation. Just my opinion.

mention rates is when she doesn't have an established rate for a certain amount of time (ie: she has 1 hr and 2 hr rates but no 1.5 hr). Then and only then will I suggest a rate beneficial to both parties. And I only do this with a lady that I have already seen before. So far, they have immediately accepted the suggested rate for the particular amount of time that I was looking for.

To be fair, all he claims to have said was that they could work something out. Which, contrary to his self-justification, was an attempt to get her to lower her rate. But he didn't actually mention rates, so far as he told us.