I have known this lady for a long time. Probably about 5 years next year. I have meet her family, few friends, we spend time talking (email,text,calls,text) during the week. So basically I know her in her personal life.  
We became close friends and trust each other so we both know about our daily life issues. We spend a little time otc and a few days out of the month together. Like complete days or 4-6 hrs. We did come up with a "fee" for all her troubles
We basically spend all day together ever other wknd.  
The sex is out of this world. The company is like my gf. She even knows my friends and family. Some ppl think we are a couple. Age difference is minimal  
There's only a slight issue.  She gets kinda mad or jealous when I try to see another girl. She don't know my handle.  
I help her when she needs something. I give her small gifts.  
Is this a normal arrangement??
I'm still fairly new to all this questions.  
Thanks for the harsh/bashing responses.

As long as you can discuss boundaries, what is allowed etc... Perhaps she may now have feelings for you which is why she may be jealous, sometimes when you spend time with someone you like, care and know so much about this is inevitable.. If it bothers you, maybe is time to have a conversation  with her about your expectations and hers to clarify things..I don't see why this would be an abnormal arrangement specially if both of you like each other, have chemistry and her along for the most part..

Since you're paying her, she is not your girlfriend. If it causes her trouble to spend time with you, and you had to come up with a fee, she is not your girlfriend. A girlfriend would have no trouble spending time with you. I'm on a real name basis with a couple of favs. We exchange gifts occasionally. Two or three favs go otc regularly. A couple favs do get really mad when I see other women, so I don't ask them for a reference anymore. We help each other out when possible, and share life issues. But they are not my gfs. So don't read too much into this. And don't screw up the great sex by making a proclamation of love, or the withdrawal of your fee just to see what happens. Can I ask you a question? Does she have a fee for other gentlemen? In my opinion, what you have here is a wonderful favorite. One that transcends the boundaries of normal client/provider relationships. You know how rare that it? Yes, we've all heard the stories of those who have transitioned into gf/bf, or even marriage, but to be very very honest, 99.99% of the time, the favorite relationships that transcend everything, always end. Man, if I were you, since this is so rare, I'd consider only seeing her until it all plays out. You'll have time for other ladies later. Oh, one last thing. Don't ever tell her your handle!

How can you expect "normal"?  Do you pay her when you see her? If so you are her ATM. If not you have really fucked things up because she may think you are her long term paycheck.

They want all the sales to them self I only bank with a national bank because I travel.

Okay, people are people. People rely on on each other in different ways, to provide different kinds of support. People seem to need other people. That part I'm less certain about.

Don't ever trust anyone, unless you've been in a relationship with them for a couple years at least! She probably enjoys your company, feels safe with you...and likes the emotional support. I don't know the situation or the people involved, but just have fun and don't start to get too sprung  well good luck!

Come on man. A GF doesn't charge a fee and a professional provider doesn't get jealous. This girl is not treating you like a BF she's treating you like an exclusive SD. What did you do to give her the impression that this was the deal?   And by the way,  is she still fucking other men for money?  If the answer to the latter is yes you can pretty much skip the first question--you're screwing yourself.

You write "The company is like my gf" are you saying the relationship is the same as it is with your GF or a GF relationship? The only time I paid a GF for sex was when we were roll playing P4P, The fee was $10, the sex was off the chain.

and it reminds me of the psychiatrist who answers the "is this normal or nuts" questions.  You  may be in a somewhat common situation but most people here, including me, don't think it's normal.  So that leaves the alternative.   But, obviously we don't know the entire story.  If this lady you're talking about knows your friends and family, you may end up being the one with the "troubles".   And it that does become the case, she won't be paying YOU for them.

Despite what some say here, it's not all black and white. The lines have been blurred.

How do you feel about her seeing her clients? It sounds like you are not married. Do you get a twinge of jealously, or it that part one sided? If she have met your personal friends and some family members it seems like you think of her as more than just a lady in the biz.

I think the jealousy is because she has chosen to spends a lot of time OTC and is generous with her time with you in the romance dept and then you go and spend money on other ladies and I'm guessing it's at their regular rate. This is only my guess. And again, despite what others will say here, I think she thinks of you as different from "just a client".

It sounds like you two need to have a mature convo about expectations, feelings ect. It may be better to not tell her when you see someone else. It may have been cool in the beginning of the friendship, but now it sounds like it's causing some hurt feelings.

If you want to continue your relationship (and with the blurred lines, that's what ya'll have) a sit down is needed.

There are more people that have met this way and are right where you are than you think. Only you two can figure out how to make this work... or not. Let her know what your feelings are for her.

Communication  is the key to any successful relationship.

xoxo,

Steph

Me... I think the problem is the labels we always try to put on things.  

Unless you've been in this kind of relationship with a lady and had the lines blurred like this, you don't really know what's going on.

You are YOUNG and are seeing this from your limited experience in this world here. There are obviously some very strong feelings going on between these two.

The gray area can be difficult but it's workable in some cases.

Steph xoxo

I think that at least to her way of thinking, this has become a committed SO relationship, one with cash benefits too.

To the OP:  You don't mention it specifically, but is she still working as an escort seeing other guys?  If so, she's being sort of hypocritical, at least to my way of seeing things.

If she is, how do you feel deep down inside about that?

Unless when you take a civvy date to dinner she pays for herself, then you are paying for her time.  It's just not being called a fee.

If she reads this board, his OP will have given her plenty of info to figure out it's him.  Danger, Will Robinson! Danger!

and my response was a bit simplistic; using the false-dilemma type of reasoning, as I did, is usually in error.   Thanks for providing your argument--it was nicely done, IMO.   Not only that, but it makes a LOT of sense and is good advice for all of us.

eom

Reminds me of John Lennon.

This happened to me. I was taken in by the good sex and expression of love and caring she showed, on occasion. Other times she was a jealous psyco. We also had an "arrangement" and I paid for a lot of large ticket items as well as groceriies, bills, and last year Xmas for her grandkids.  She expressed interest in wanting to get out of the business and go back to school but something always came up. Turns out I was just like an ATM to her. She eventually went really psyco on me and we broke it off. Best thing that could of happened. As long as she's still a provider she'll never be a GF. It's an expensive trap my friend. Ended up costing me over $20K...

t appears her perception and yours is different. Instead of beating around the proverbial bush all over the board, why don’t you have nice conversation to get in sync

this make excellent sense; especially the part about communication.  It's hard enough for a couple to be on the same wavelength when we talk; but when we don't it's not just the distance between venus and mars, it more like mercury and neptune.

-- Modified on 11/29/2014 12:00:35 PM

Not necessarily a bad thing...  but I agree that an open conversation about expectations & where you each want this to go, is in order.  If you don't want to be exclusive then you'd best keep that to yourself or kiss her goodbye!    
If you are available for more, you must decide if that's something you want.

I've said that ever since you've been here that you live in a fantasy black and white world with no room for nuance.

I believe, or at least I hope that with a few more years of life experience you will begin to see the many shades of gray that those of us who are a bit wiser (which is almost everyone) can see quite clearly.

People with the least amount of actual experience tend to see things in absolutes, you wonder why you are constantly used as a piñata, this is one of the biggest reasons, spouting off about shit that you don't have a clue about.

NowI'mReallyConfused.  But seriously, if she does find out and reads about his concerns--that may be a good thing.  It could lead to a spirited and beneficial discussion.  It's usually easier to sort things out when you have another view from a trusting partner!

1. There is no need or advantage in telling  her you visited  another provider.  
 
 2.If she was your civilian GF would you feel the need to confess when you strayed?  

Don't be the guy that pretends to really like the lady for a discount, which your getting clearly. Then goes and spends the remaining play money you have now on other ladies.
                   Thier are actualy guys who like this is thier game and they play it with as many willing and gullible providers possible. Then they take the money they save by playing a head game with her to hobby more.
                     Dont be that guy, If you dont really like her and need other escorts, Pay her the full rate by the hour and pay her 4-6 hour dinner date fee if you want to spend that kinda time with her.  
                      There are far too many guys that run games with escorts in order to save money , get better deals, and then go spend it on others they are attracted too as well.
                I hate it when guys do this to me, I have had so many et to know me, act like they like me, and i liked them. Then comes the. Oh but i dont have that kind of money, I dont nor mally even hobby!
Meaning they were pretending to like me for free sex. So they can get free appts.
If your still gonna hobby treat her with the respect of paying her for the dinner dates and extra times, dont be a jerk.

Scarsdale, I think your view and expression of it is the best advice I've seen on this topic

Life IS "gray areas" much of the time.  Not being able to understand that is a sign of immaturity, which is no surprise in your case as you have continually demonstrated.

but then as i become a girlfriend I get nothing? maybe a few meals per week.
                      You should treat a girlfriend beter, than you treat and escort. Meaning if you pay me 250 per hour as a whore, Then when i become something of meaning and value to you, you now go send that 250 per week on some one you dont care about then give the one your like less.
 The one you love should get treated betters than the hookers you see.
                 So now she gets an hours pay to take a day off to spend with you?
 But you will go see others ladies for thier hourly wage and no otc time?
 Why do guys do this? shouldnt the lady being good to you get treated best?
                                She is doing otc time , ect, if you have any extra money you should buy her a nice necklace from toffanys for being so good to you not go see 2 ther escorts that week.  
                  This is why i stay single. You get spoiled more by being a whore. By offering something of value and quality to a hobbist you just get less domnation and then they spend it on another whore.
              I will take and stick to being the mens whore they give alot money too than be the old lady they keep at home giving her less and less money so as to save funds to spend on other escorts. This is why I stay being an escort to every guy and never become thier girlfriend. Thats what they do.  
               I d rather be the hooker getting 350 an hour and be able to maintain a lifestyle free from financial stress. than the mans wife at home wondering why the mortgage is never paid and no diapers, The guy is out spendin it on hookers, As someone offering true love yu get the shit end the stick in our society of you ask me. Count me out!@
              if you even have extra 300-600 per month to pay other escorts, you should give her that money instead for being so dam good to your ass. Take her to foxwoods for the 6 hours get her a 300 dollar dinner, So now you saved money by her being a gf so now you become a trader and go spend it on other undeserving escorts that dont give a shit about you? See what thanks we get for being good to customers.  
 She isnt jealous she is mad your screwing her over to have extra to send on other ladies, There is a difference. If your gonna see other escorts give her the respect to go back to being a classy, respectful client, Pay her her requested donation plus tips and gifts which the good clients always do. Mr fisher never shows uo with out a gift and even in between appt will mail me a deposit or like last week he mailed me an awsome book on caveman diets.
                            I agree generous discounts otc with good clients is good, But again mr fisher doesnt pretend to be my bf and get in my head,. like your doing to this escort. She can easily get confused with you really liking her or worse acting like you truly love her. Then it can easily get clouded are you doing this to have extra hobby money or really like her.
                       If your still taking good care of her she shouldnt care what you do but if the help you give her and treatemtnis getting slimmer an dslimmer as you go, then your allowed more and more hobby money or whatever.  
 She isnt jealous she just wants to be treated good.
                       I have plenty of regulars i do discounts and otc and they see other escorts, I dont care.
They are still  being generous with me. Not every hour on the hour pay but......BUT>>>>If your not being generous to her now, and instead want to treat other ladies with more generosity than her,
I met one that did that i got 250 as a whore for an hour, but once i was the girlfriend, like nothing, . When they do that yu know they are playin games and run that scam on every lady they meet and go around gettin discounts and freebies with every one.

I think the jealousy is because she has chosen to spends a lot of time OTC and is generous with her time with you in the romance dept and then you go and spend money on other ladies and I'm guessing it's at their regular rate. This is only my guess.

-- Modified on 11/29/2014 11:40:09 AM

I have lived with guys and split rent, but I would never date a hobbyist for free living in a 1,775.00 apt plus utilities. My current lifestyle requires like round the clock hooking to survive in. I tryed adding in fucking otc no compensation a few times per week, and i quickly felt the financial loss come end of month.
                          With my amount of physical energy i have i have to use it for pse, when i tried doing free fucking I quickly got lower scoring and less money and fell behind, For me to have a bf they would have to shack up with me and sleep in my bed and split rent so i wouldnt suffer financially.  
 Which obviously i would open my place up to them or be willing to shack up at a nother apt together. I couldnt suport the lifestyle i have with a active personal sex life. I put all my gusto into the appts for my rent and thats the gest of it, OR in her positojn i culd do a more vip gf thing with a guy i met at this job but he would have to be able to make up for the money i lose when fuckin him.  
      I agree you should move her in and make it easier on both you,

Foolish or not, he came here for advice and wanted to be as discreet as possible.  The fact that he made a mistake be perhaps giving out too much info is beside the point.  If I feel the need to flame you on occasion, I do it under my handle, but so what?  More "Aliases" such bullshit.

When I tell some how clueless they are, I WANT them to know it was me.

So just who are these cowards you are talking about? Inicky, Curly, Dr Who, myself, all of us are quite forthcoming where it comes to our disdain for many of the things you say here.

Same difference. Either way it's going to cost Money. Civvie Girls charge for Sex just like a Provider would. I'm very friendly with the Provider I'm seeing. It's practically like having a Regular Girlfriend.

So what your saying is if I take a woman to dinner or a movie or a show or something like that and at the end of the night we have sex, by your definition that's p4p. It's a gray area.

from someone whose reviews read like Harlequin romances. You seem to be using p4p as dating practice, talk about a gray area. Not to mention a really bad idea. But don't let a lack of experience, knowledge, and self-awareness stop you from making your grand black and white, all or nothing declarations, if nothing else they're entertaining.

it would have to be with the right lady, of course, who is willing to do the above mentioned things.  I think it is quite possible that some of us guys have gotten burned by such "grey" relationships for one reason or another.  Hence, we then tend to see things as more black and white just to protect ourselves and our emotions.    It's difficult enough to really KNOW and trust someone that we see on a daily basis irl.  On the other hand, relationships without all the drama of the real world could be easier to maintain.  

Just clear the air and move on.

I think I have tried every type of "relationship" with a hooker that I can think of, except for marriage of course, and that's not a knock against hookers, that's a knock against marriage. lol I have been everything from a REAL BF, to a glorified sugar daddy, a boss, a FWB, a "regular", you name it and I have probably tried it.

I have NEVER asked permission or approval from a bunch of strangers about whether or not I was doing the right or normal thing, nor do I ever expect to in the future.

You nailed it, WTF is normal, and who fucking cares. Go for it if it makes you happy, and change those parts that make you unhappy, or at least voice your concern to the only other person who's opinion actually counts in this scenario.

Fuck normal, do what makes you happy. None of this is normal to anyone on the outside looking in.

After years of posting on these boards, I am usually pretty good at understanding most dialects of "Moron" but I don't have a clue as to what you are trying to say.

Translation please.

And I completely agree, they have spent a lot of time together, so no doubt there is some friendliness, but it seems to me this is most likely just an "ouch" as you describe.  If she had stronger feelings I think we would have more than just this "ouch" having been expressed considering all the time they've spent together over a long period.  But certainly with all that time together, it is understandable on a human level how jealous feelings can arise

WTF is normal? If you enjoy the relationship, bask in it for as long as it lasts. If you're troubled by some aspects of the arrangement, come to grips with them or invoke change. Bottom line, normal is whatever you're comfortable with.

He takes care of her to get laid right? I think it sounds great as it makes things more up front and honest, I mean why muck things up by him thinking she is with him because she really loves him right?

you are being quite immature today Rod.

Do you realize how ridiculous that comment is? Unless you actually know the OP, do you really expect the rest of us to believe you have such unbridled empathy for complete strangers. Get over yourself already!

I invited an ex hooker GF to meet my mother. I never made a secret of how we met, she also knows many of my friends, all of whom know she used to be a hooker. Despite a thirty year age difference we were actually a "real" BF/GF for a while, and are still FWB's

Not everyone has hang ups about other peoples opinions about their sex life. Speak for yourself when you say you can't mix a GF with a provider. I do it all the time. It can be challenging at times, but it has worked for me. Of course I am not the type of person who would ask anyone's opinion about me "dating" a hooker. Quite frankly I don't give a fuck who likes it or not. I guess that might be where the OP and I differ, maybe he does give a fuck

why do so many your posts get a "like" immediately after they hit? If you're going to lamely like your own posts at least wait a few minutes so it seems like someone else is doing it. I'm trying but it's hard to think of something more insecure than liking one's own drivel.

And it really doesn't matter what YOU want to believe about other people's experiences. I've been a member here for damn near 10 years. I've seen the posts on this subject dating back over the years.

You are young and frankly you don't have the life experience that others of a certain age here do. I've been in the gray area for over 2 years once and a year another time. And various degrees of blurred lines a couple of other times. before, you haven't.

He's talking about the gray areas you said don't exist here.

That's funny. Hey Steph, would you like to direct me those "mature days" he's had? lmao

You aren't the moderator here. He expressed his feelings on the matter and that's his right.

Now you are trying to boss other people around, Rod? I'm betting one of YOUR limited life experiences is fueling your posts here.

WOW!

...trying to convince yourself that some one you are paying for sex is your girl friend and that, hey yeah I pay, but dont we all in one way or another. Sorry. Use whatever label you like but girl friend is not one of them.

With your post here on this thread, I just can't tell.

SIGH!

Steph

Normal is what Tiddles says it is from the weighty depths of his wellspring of experience. How dare you suggest that life is more complicated and nuanced...what are you, high?

I think this post and others that echo the same sentiment indicate the difference between knowledge and wisdom.  

Rod, most of things in life are an exchange of some sorts, especially in healthy relationships. When it isn't it's not healthy because every car got to get her parts oiled, at least from time to time. If it doesn't it eventually stops driving you around.  

He certainly didn't post it anywhere. WHERE are you getting the info you're putting out?

your saying and I think your answer was correct as grey area and thyre friends . I have provider friends and even one that I don't have sex with more like a sister or friend rod wouldn't understand so why bother trying to explain .
have a great day steph xo  

Angel, u r a smart woman n the stuff that u said is true.   The lesson to be learned here and the one that Angel, put so well is no good deed goes unpunished.

reading and writing comprehension.  The Cunning Linguist is quite upset with him.

But your presumption is unbelievable, even for you. I suspect most of the "bunch of people" you refer to picked up p4p later in life, when their personal relationships started to lack something they needed. You, on the other hand, are young and unattached and treat p4p like dating while simultaneously condemning the OP for developing feelings for a provider. You, sir, are an absolute mess and I cringe to think how a long term relationship will play out for you.

they have an arrangement that seems to work for them . and what guy doesn't buy shit for his gf . again every woman costs money and every gf is P4P , guess what ? no money no love ..lol seriously rod you need to grow up and live life and start experiencing things , then maybe you would understand this grown up stuff  .. and the op has a nice thing going hope it lasts  

for him to think the girls he sees are friend and post his hello and smiles and that okay ? he doesn't and will not understand so why bother ..

that you understand the difference between disagreeing and telling someone what they should or should not post. You simply cannot be that dense.

bf gf are you grown up yet rod , really . there are diff kinds of gf s ..like everything in life rod not cut or dry , grey areas

to obedience school . omg isn't he annoying ? don't waste your time steph , he just likes the attention .  
 

Go back and read the post to which you refer.  Nowhere in it will you find a reference to sex.
And this is precisely an example of why you are so annoying.  In your efforts to make your points you continually distort what other posters say.  It's the closest thing to lying I can imagine.  Calling you reading-comprehension challenged is kind.
And please stop taking the lord's name in vain.  This is a decent fuckboard, you know.

-- Modified on 11/29/2014 3:19:29 PM

At first he denied it but I believe he finally fessed up.  Not surprised he's at it again.  He's pretty transparent in all of his petty manipulations.

Despite your condescension, this guy, whoever he is, has as much right to post his opinion as you.  And here's what you're missing: not a single person has come forth to support your thoughts, only critics.  In this case and several others it's not your usual tormentors.  Even Steph, who usually understanding of you, has schooled you a few times.  And, as usual, you're unable to listen or even concede a point or two.
You have proven yourself beyond hope.

I asked him to clarify a post near the top of the thread because I had no idea what he was talking about but so far he hasn't replied.

If you are paying her way less, then she's probably getting to the point where she's... Questioning whether she should have given you the discount. A frequent, 5 year regular is nothing to shake a stick at. Right or wrong, if you're giving her $1000 for a weekend and someone else that for an hour, it might sting. That is really more her issue.  

as a girl he sees once and then moves on.  A discount for a long-time repeat customer is not exactly unusual. Seems like he's earned it and it was obviously by mutual consent.  So nope, no harm, no foul.

Don't you know how to post in tree and branch mode?  And you still don't understand that what Steph pointed out is right?  Good god, Tidwit, everything about your post is totally clueless.

So, while trying to be cute you once again post something without knowing the facts.  How predictable.

I sincerely hope you aren't taking any criticisms of your posts to heart. You're the gift that keeps on giving, I'd hate to see you wise up and deprive us of the entertainment.

*chest pound* *kisses fist* *peace sign up to the sky* or whateverthefuck ;-

bigger than your emoticon

-- Modified on 11/29/2014 2:52:05 PM

-- Modified on 11/29/2014 2:52:47 PM

My god he's pathetic.  

I never thought he'd do it again. Did he ask you to meet him for mimosas and Sunday brunch in DC? I'm just mortified right now, really I am!

I'm going to have a few cocktails at my favorite jazz club and chill.



Steph

I just don't know what to say now.

I guess he is train-able.  LMAO!
Heavens, I hope he's also not back to sending whiney messages to Admin!  They'll get PO'd and ban him again. Then what would we do for fun?

Like he was before he got shut down. God it's all embarrassing. He's such a child.

And welcome to the club, I wish I could say it's exclusive and that membership has its privileges. It isn't, and it doesn't.

-- Modified on 11/29/2014 5:28:00 PM

Please don't bother the powers that be on TER about PMs. You are about to go down a path right about now....

Yep, she had em young and so did they. Late 40's it's not uncommon...

of black paint and mix them together.  What do you get?  Gray.

Where is she? She unleashed this nut job then disappears. Gotta give her credit. She's smart enough to dodge the shrapnel haha!

it is a violation of TER policy to post the content of PMs, period. Second, I'd never post someone's PMs to me, regardless how I felt about the content or the sender, or how hilarious many (dare I say most?) would find them. And third, calling out for TER intervention in a post? Get a grip man, you're going off the rails.

in fact I don't recall responding. That doesn't mean I didn't, just that it wasn't worth remembering.

But first: If start with harsh/bashing responses, it’s your handle SoConfused that makes me wonder are you for real? It makes me skeptical to your true situation, or is it half-baked or made-up and you’re doing some sort of research? I’m wondering if using a handle like SoConfused will involve future participation on this board, or is it a one shot deal for you with this one post? It does come across weak-minded, sorry.

My two cents

-- Modified on 11/29/2014 10:46:11 PM

he just won the Olympics , lol amazing isn't it . this guys unreal in his quest for a friend .  

Rod distorts.
Rod lies.
Rod cannot distinguish his own weird reality from the truth

And with labels and all the connotations attached, (Scarsdale did make a valiant stab at it and a good point about the nonsense to labels), it’s a trickier task ahead if nuance and grey areas heavily weighed in on—as earlier OPs' posts referred to them having much greater significance than the extremes of black an white; left to right etc. So, for example, let’s take the word stubborn: dictionary definition is having or showing dogged determination not to change one's attitude or position on something, especially in spite of good arguments or reasons to do so.  

OMG nothing more annoying than going out to eat with a guy and talking on the phone for three hours, having a good debate, and all of a sudden you're sitting with a mutual friend, and he's giving you relationship/possible marriage advice. Then you look at him like, "Uhm, we're not dating." "Oh. Well, that's not how he sees it."

Have very few clients think I'm going to run away with them. Lol