I love how you guys say you've fucked over 100 women or even a 1,000, numerous girlfriends and wives and ex-wvies. All that tells me is you don't have a fucking clue about women or you'd be with the same one and not fucking around - or you have your own baggage like the OP.
All I know is the best explanation of women I've heard is,'They are all bat shit crazy. Their level of crazy depends on how well the governor works". I don't care if you've changed a 1,000 brakes, you still might be a shitty mechanic and not know what you're doing. I've known my share of trained certified mechanics who are crap mechanics. People think all doctors are the same they are not. Anyway, an oldie but a goodie. A young man was walking along one of Southern California's sandy beaches with his surfboard. He suddenly spots this bottle which has recently washed up on the beach. It's obvious it's been tossed around for a long time. He picks up the bottle and notices that it still has the cork intact. So, being curious as to what may be inside, he manages to get the cork out and out pops a Genie. After expressing profound appreciation for having been let out of the bottle, the Genie grants his benefactor the classic, "one wish" and it will be yours. Being an avid surfer, it doesn't take him long to say,"I've always wanted to surf Hawaii, but I get seasick on ships and I'm afraid to fly. Would you build me a bridge to Hawaii?" The Genie replies:
"Do you know what you are asking for? Do you know how long the bridge would have to be? Think of the enormous challenges for that kind of undertaking. The supports required to reach the bottom of the Pacific! The concrete and steel it would take! It will nearly exhaust several natural resources. And the maintenance of that bridge! No, think of another wish." The man said OK and tried to think of a really good wish. Finally, he said,
"I've been married and divorced four times. My wives always said that I don't care and that I'm insensitive. So, I wish that I could understand women ... know how they feel inside and what they're thinking when they give me the silent treatment ... know why they're crying, know what they really want when they say nothing ... know how to make them truly happy ... I really want to understand women and how they think!" After a long sigh, the Genie responds:
"Would you like that bridge with two lanes or four?"
I'm really new to this world and had some fun but I was talking with a provider about life, I took a sarcastic shot and said something like, if it were easy all you millennial's would do it... just in jest... her response was something like, yeah, cause sucking a strangers dick everyday is easy.... then later said it's rare that it is enjoyable or nice... usually it's just someone fucking me. I just don't think I can look at a woman as just a fucking item to please me anymore... it's a service I know, I get the deal but I just don't feel comfortable with it... it's their choice I know... but, at this specific time, I think I'll be better off not... anyone else ever get a hint of guilt like taking advantage or demeaning a provider?
Probably going to be some smart ass comments... so be it... I dabbled in the life, maybe just not for me right now.
I took a screenwriting class years ago. The teacher said that the story you're writing should end when it's time to end. And only you can know that time--it's your story. If you're not having fun, which is the one and only point of this exercise, then it's time to walk away.
Having said that, I've quit and returned at least 3 times now. I never say never just because I know I'm always just one divorce or bad relationship away from getting zero pussy. And as long as there are adult women willing to provide--who don't have the attitude or at least the unprofessionalism to say some shit such as that to me--then this will continue to be an oasis in this otherwise barren world.
who look down on sex workers. You take a sarcastic shot at her profession, which you feel entitled to do because you think you're better than her, and then get all butt-hurt by her reaction when she gives you the dose of reality THAT YOU ASKED FOR. Conversations that reek of "what's a nice girl like you doing in a filthy job like this" can only go south quickly. If you don't want to know the truth about sex work, then just enjoy the fantasy and don't ask questions. Most providers would not give you the unvarnished truth when seeing them for the first time, but once you are a regular with a provider and they think you are emotionally mature enough to handle reality, then they will share aspects of their work with you . . . . the good, the bad, and the ugly. If you can't handle it, then I agree, you are not mature enough to be a monger and should get out.
that's not accurate at all... you either made false assumptions or read more than I said. I never took a shot at her... we were talking about a business she is considering opening, i said it would be hard, these things aren't easy... never took a shot at her profession or suggested I was better than her.... SOOO, you're wrong there! If she's opening up to me then she's comfortable with me... emotionally mature or desensitized... is that the same thing?
says, "I TOOK A SARCASTIC SHOT AT HER." Tell me again how you didn't say that?
I was a sarcastic shot at her as a millennial, not a provider... sorry if I didn't make that clear... I'm actually trying to help her start another business... told her it is hard, if it were easy.... you know the rest.
My apologies, sir. Please disregard me earlier response.
Props for admitting you were wrong.
Whatever "Boomer".....
He clearly said ""IF" it were so easy, all you millennials would be doing it" and he wasn't even talking about being a sex worker when he said it.
Come on guys PLEASE learn to read what a poster actually has said before jumping his shit just because you misread what he wrote.
Just to spell it out for anyone not paying attention, this is more like what the conversation was really like
Her, "I am thinking about opening up an art studio"
Him, "Well it's not that easy, "IF" it were that easy all you millennials would be doing it"
Her "Well, it's not like sucking strange cock for a living is all that easy either"
GOT IT???
Damn, I hate White Knighting for complete strangers. but honestly people around here, not just you and Steph who both got this all wrong, really need to pay more attention to what people have actually said before jumping their shit.
Once I read his response back to CDL just now, it clear it up.
The sentence structure in his original post lent itself to misinterpretation in the way that we understood it, but after he explained what he meant, I could see how his interpretation was equally viable. Unlike many posters here that NEVER admit they are wrong (and I won't call them out, they know who they are), we are both contrite on this one. Lol
I'm an admitted drunk and I "got it" the very first time I read it,
That said, credit is given for owning your mistake, after glancing up and down this thread even AFTER the record was set straight, both by myself and the OP it appears some people STILL are doubling down on stupid. Yes a lot of posters here NEVER admit they are wrong, no one can say that about you. Well they can say it, but like in the case of BPOS we all know he's lying about it. lol
This is an example of the #MeToo movement. It doesn't matter what you and OP think, it is what she thinks or interpreted. OP may have clarified, but we have no idea what she was thinking. Just like OP was butt hurt by her response, and remember we're only getting ONE side of this story - his version. And we know how that goes with just one side of the story. You can interpret or read it however you want, it is still his side of the story.
Whether he insulted her as a millenial or as a provider, or whatever - at the end of the day he insulted her.
I'm surprised GaG, that you are doubling down on stupid. You're doing the "man" thing of parsing it down to data, not emotions. Its how she felt about the situation and comments). Just like OP is all butt hurt and wanting to give up on the hobby over the realization this is a business and fantasy. Welcome to 2020.
-- Modified on 7/18/2020 2:27:52 AM
Even after reading your translation GaG, I still believe you got it wrong. She shared a personal thought and dream, about opening up an art studio, and he dissed the idea. My EX-wife would do that shit all the time. I'd raise an idea and she would then think of six ways to Sunday of why it wouldn't work. Sometimes it was just floating up a dream and all you would need to say, that is a nice idea, sounds fun.
For examle, if she said, "I always dreamed about living in Belize" and he responded well its not that easy or everybody would be doing it He just shit on her dream. If it were me, in my head I'd be fuck you, and I might say something out loud to the same.
So to OP, you, and Steph, you're not interpreting it the way she or I heard it. It was a guy shitting on a girl's dream.
If you're talking about the OP I don't see how anyone can claim the guy was shitting on the girls dream. Given the OP both seemed to be saying providing is a difficult job for the provider -- or at least that specific provider.
I do agree that the OP could maybe have provided some improved context rather than just jumping into the "sarcastic shot" and going from there.
Or maybe you're seeing ladies that aren't at your level. We all fall for the glamour shot of a hot 20 something, but then after you nail her, you're thinking "What now"?.You called her a millennial so there's a age difference here. She told you the way it is, cut and dry and it took you back.Maybe if she was more mature she could've fed off your vibe and cuddle the conversation in an another direction you wouldn't have felt the need to be an ass.
This life style isn't for everyone. We're all looking for that "escape", to get lost in another world for that limited time.
Good luck, hope you find the meaning of life, somewhere between some chicks legs....lol
I appreciate the thoughts, thanks!
Some ladies love what they do. For others it is just a job. And like some jobs, some people hate their jobs.
Obviously most ladies do it for the money. They become addicted to the easy money. After all, many of them are making about 10-20X what they would make per hour outside of this world.
Most ladies find most of their clients tolerable. Kindness and respect go a long ways.
I also never want to feel that I am taking advantage of a lady or that there is any sort of coercion. Which can be tricky because sometimes motivations are not entirely clear. Sometimes it can be unclear whether she feels that she has another viable alternative.
Thanks, I like those thoughts too.
Take care!
"a fucking item" I'd retire, lol. The lady in question gave you back what you gave her. Maybe consider ladies as more and you will be rewarded with more than her curt answer back to you.
You could try to learn from your mistake ( NEVER tell a lady in the biz how easy what we do is, and let's face it, most millennials take offense at someone older than them calling them millennials) and go forward with a new outlook. Your comment put her on the defensive and she zinged you right back. She may or may not actually feel that way.
I for one enjoy my time with the gentlemen I spend time with. If I don't, I won't repeat pure and simple.
Steph XO
-- Modified on 7/15/2020 6:31:00 AM
MatureGFE, completely wrong too, I NEVER said anything about what she's doing, easy or hard... we were talking about an entirely different business opportunity that is regulated on state and federal levels, requires multiple business set up steps that she's not familiar with... you're reacting without reading things clearly... she was never on the defensive at all.. you are assuming, wrongly... SHE is the one who said there are challenges... some people here... read the whole stinking message... in context.
We've talked politics and riots and protests and current affairs... we've actually had fun taking cheap shots at eachother and laugh about it... you're understanding is completely out of left field... sorry... I've been nothing but a complete gentleman to her.
thanks for the input though...
You sound like a very nice person who wants to help this lady!
Steph XOXO
Why apologize, he was being a dick. Just like saying, "You boomers are all about yourselves". An insult is an insult. Even using the term millennial has an inherent insult in that context - and most contexts for that matter.
If OP is all butt hurt and ready to stop the hobby after one little zing, who is sensitive here?
OP got a bit of a dose of reality that that this is a fantasy, and why a woman is getting paid for sex.
But I got it wrong and don't mind saying so. Hey I'm in good company CDL misread it too. 
Steph XO
-- Modified on 7/16/2020 12:53:22 PM
As noted above, she shared with him a personal dream. She opened up to him, and he crapped on it. That hurt her, and she reacted. It is an extremely tough business, and she took a moment to be vulnerable to a client. Lesson learned for her, and now we have one more cold and distant provider who you can give her 'fake' moans from getting eaten out by a guy who is an expert at eating pussy and making women have multiple O's.
He took offense at her reaction and was all butt hurt, to the point he doesn't want to hobby anymore. OP is the baby.
He is making up all sorts of excuses now like he didn't mean what he said about Millenials - missing the point entirely. The entire issue being is he hurt her feelings. She was comfortable enough to be vulnerable personally, and he made a smart ass comment instead of being supportive.
and the exact opposite thing happened that you would expect. She fully admitted that she hated being a hooker, but that she liked me and it was "different" with me.
Now before you call bullshit and say "that's what they all say" I gave her my number and saw her several times while she was still a hooker, EVERY time it was because she called me, not the other way around. She ended up quitting her job as a hooker, came to work for me, became more of a sugar baby, and then briefly we became an actual couple, and now thirteen years later we are still "friends" and money hasn't had anything to do with our relationship/friendship in years now.
Just because a woman doesn't really enjoy her job doesn't mean that she hates ALL her clients, or that she hates fucking everyone who comes through the door. I do have to say that if she didn't call me, I most likely never would have seen her again, because like you, I NEVER want to leave with the feeling that I just had sex with a woman against her will. Maybe you are one of the rare guys she actually enjoys being with and that's why she was able to be honest with you?
THANK YOU GA, for some level headed thinking and insight!
Did she ever become a hooker again?
lol
Did you buy her guilt trip? If so, so be it. No sense paying money to feel guilty.
Is there something else?
Maybe you need that real close connection rather than the fantasy. So be that also.
Why are you telling us this in the first place? What piece of information are you looking for,and what do you plan on doing with it once you get it?
Fisher will tell you. whip out some oils and give her a great massage. Voila! You made her day!
As a few have pointed out, this can be about more than just fucking. I get that in most cases the job was probably NOT what most grew up dreaming of. However, it is a job that produces more income than any other option and, for those that stay in the role, is a "crummy" job they can deal with. While I would like to think most people are like me and generally had jobs they enjoyed and found fulfilling I suspect my situations has been more the exception than the rule.
True, this world is a good bit more personal than other jobs.
You can take it that all the providers feel they are demeaning themselves by working as escorts. I suspect things are not quite as simple as that. I suspect most, and if providers disagree here please speak up, don't feel more degraded by the job choice than most doing jobs they hate unless they find themselves dealing only with Johns that treat them like crap and they have to byte their tongue because at that time they really, really must have the money. I suspect most will happily tell assholes where the door is and, perhaps, even to take their damn money with them as they leave.
Also, you could be the customer that came in today that made up for the asshole they saw yesterday.
So the question might be, do you think you can be one of those gents that actually treat the woman with respect without some moral judgement about what you are doing? Is it perhaps that you feel paying is a bit demeaning for you and perhaps doing a little projection (we all protect our egos to some extent)? That might be the question for you. However, if you really cannot feel comfortable with the P4P relationship -- for what ever reason you find is your reason -- you are probably wise to call it quits.
I had to visit a new dentist today -- I never see the same dentist twice, lol. I caught him eying me through the fishtanks in the waiting room. "Shit a new patient. Will his breath smell? Will I actually like him?" You could read his thoughts. Later, after the exam, he thanked me for being "one of the good patients, that helps him get through the drudgery of dental work." Little did he know, I never repeat. He was no millennial, btw.
This is a post for this thread AND the next one. Hope it helped!
A provider doesn't regard seeing a guy as anything but work. But like all jobs, you have good days and bad days. I tend to see the same girl repeatedly. I stop if they say things to me like " I love you".. a danger sign... I get very fond of a girl and respect her.. but neither if us are there for love. As soon as you understand that it's a business transaction that is a lot of fun.. you will be better off.
doing this then you have not done it long enough.
Trust me there are many providers who love this...the attention from men, the cash and fucking.
You must find her she is waiting for you, well not you specifically.
We all have different reasons for retiring. In my early days I said I would never stop. During my most active years I actually thought I might die of a stroke/heart failure during one of my many very athletic sessions.
I started in 2004 and have seen over 200 women. Have only repeated with the 20 or so I liked most. Have repeated 25+ times with the best few, and only stopped seeing them because they retired.
When FOSTA became law and TER dropped reviews, I cut back 90%...only met with girls I had seen before. Since Covid I have only seen one girl. These events, and the fact that my sperm doesn't fly as far as it used to are all taking their toll. Not even sure if the girls I want to see are available during the current Covid situation.
Brother it's easy to possibly cross that line on anything with her or vice versa with YOU. All I can say as a newbie is chalk it up as inexperience in this & reach out apologize! Chances are she MIGHT not even think it's a big deal BUT I always recommend with all these ladies you treat them the way you would any lady outside of the hobby whether it be a platonic lady friend or a potential GF.
Providers do this for many different reasons, I recommend never bringing it up & just enjoy your time with her. Remember however nervous you are it's tenfold on their end. Talking about age is a tricky thing. I'm in my early 40's but tend to see providers my age to north about 10 or so years. I don't like it being brought up period as age is ONLY A NUMBER.
Remember that & never say anything about what they do even if they mention it. Always be supportive & just stay neutral if they talk vent to you about their job! I feel you & I don't like nor consider these ladies as "items" either. Just try to keep emotions somewhat in check. 9 out of 10 times even if you do make a connection or friendship remember it is still a mutual service. Good luck!
I appreciate the civil back and forth (even was a "you said this"..."no i meant that"... "oops, ok, i got it now" exchange 
Only want to amplify what was mentioned about it being a job (i.e., sexWORK) and that we have good days and bad.
Also, our relation to clients can be along a spectrum. When I had a wine bar, some patrons would walk through the door and I'd know it'd be enjoyable interaction and others that most likely would feel like a chore. Same in this realm.
If you're going to be a provider for a length of time, you understand that you need to be professional on both the good & bad days and with the fun & not-so-fun clients (as well as when those dynamics intermingling at times).
Happy hobbying & stay safe y'all
Kacy TGirl
And after a while I would go
Why not go get something?
Some good comments here. Pretty deep discussion for a fuck board.
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The girls who are the best at this are enjoying it at some level much of the time, and can act like they do nearly all the time. They understand the performance and fantasy fulfillment aspect of what they are doing, and this is reflected in their earnings. There's a continuum among providers, as among all women, in their enjoyment of sex and aptitude for this work.
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Because, as others have commented, for the providers it's ultimately a job. Even though somewhere there are men paying men for sex, women paying women, or women paying men, the vast majority of paid sex going on is men paying women. The fact that I have to pay reflects the fact that I need/want this more than the provider does, and so my experience is fundamentally different somehow from the provider's. At the average/population level, men are experiencing sex differently from women.
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Sometimes there is coercion or traficking going on, which I'm certainly doing my best to avoid, and I believe nearly always succeeding. But most of what's going on in this transaction reflects the male-female difference in what we're experiencing.
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I accept this and form my attitudes and expectations accordingly. I do my best to be respectful, courteous, professional, all that, as I do with other service providers. Treat them the way I'd like to be treated, even as I appreciate the service they are providing. As a person, she's not just a "fucking item to please me," but that's what I'm paying her to be right now, and that's ok if we both understand that.
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This doesn't mean that clients and providers can't communicate honestly, or even form friendships or romances. It just means, for me, that this service is different from getting my hair cut or going to a restaurant, because of my need/desire for it, and so I need to be self-aware about my emotions and reactions.
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Your provider friend made a comment that reflected an aspect of her reality. Because you had become friends, maybe you had formed some assumptions about her and your relationship that were knocked away by what the comment revealed. My opinion is that her letting her guard down a bit and being honest reflects that she likes and trusts you. For me, it wouldn't change how I felt about her or about paying for sex in general.
The best sessions for me are when I leave satisfied, and I have the feeling the provider enjoyed herself. This is the fun of repeat sessions and the challenge of new sessions. Sometimes the less said, the better. If a provider gives off the vibe that it’s just work, that can definitely kill the mood of the session. That is also the difference between a repeat, and a one-and-done!
It sounds to me like you are taking one provider’s comments and generalizing to the entire population. I have a handful of providers who I believe enjoy my company, including the sex ( as do I), appreciate the compensation and seem happy to see me return! Of course, this may all be a charade, but it seems real enough for me to repeat!
I am not trying to psychoanalyze their lifestyle or ask their opinion on mine, rather get an hour of light fun and satisfaction! Isn’t that enough?
My advice would be to lighten up and repeat with a provider who seems to enjoy your company! Don’t bail after one provider bitched about her life, and keep the conversation light.
You brought up an excellent point. A great provider can make you suspend disbelief---TER has a rating of "9 - I forgot it was a service" for a reason. Every provider does it differently. Some engage in playful, flirty banter, like a college party hookup. Others don't talk much, but make up for it in sexy behavior. Others rely on emotional talk. In a nutshell, if a provider can make you forget she's a provider, she's worth her weight in gold, even if she's a spinner.
It seems like your lady missed the mark in that regard. Instead of making you suspend disbelief, she brought out the belief front and center by talking about the dark aspects of her job. Which you kind of brought on yourself by taking a shot at her age. Repeat with her or don't repeat, but it is what it is.
I assume that the women I see are doing this of their own volition. Their reasons are not for me to judge. Maybe they like it. Maybe they don't like it. I assume money is the prime motivator. Even though there are probably some who would be sexually active anyhow and realize they can get paid for it, I don't assume that about anyone I see.
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I simply assume they do this of their own free will and they do it for the money. I have no guilt about that. I drag my ass into work every day. It's interesting enough work. But if it weren't for the money I would be sitting on a beach sucking a Mai Tai.
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Do escorts have to love what they do for me to see them? Not at all. I treat them respectfully like anybody I deal with. We have mutually agreed to certain conditions. There is no force or fraud. There is no illusion of a meaningful relationship between us. If they'd rather be somewhere else, I can fully sympathize. Who likes to go to work when there is a world of more enjoyable options?
I'm polite, chat with them to the extent that they're interested, enjoy my time in their company, and then leave and don't think about them until I'm in the mood again.
They're providing a service and I'm a paying customer. That's it.
Everyone is here for different reasons, do not let 1 provider detour you from making memories that will last a life time with others. No one should have that control over you. I think you need to find a provider not to just fuck & suck you, but offer companionship, inspiration, motivation, and encouragement. I am out here!
VIP.
There are folks you really connect with and enjoy helping, some you have no opinion either way (they're just run of the mill average joes/janes) and some you can't stand. Such as it is with providers and the hobbyists who seek their services.
One of the things of which I try to be mindful is that this ain't like any other job (except maybe porn). The women here are not preparing our tax returns or painting our houses or fixing our computers. They're engaging in the most intimate act short of child bearing, in exchange for money. I have no idea (though I have my theories) about how a lady processes that. And those of us on the buy side can pretend that it's just another transaction. But I never had a discussion like this one about buying phones or ordering a meal. I acknowledge that this thing is just different. When skin meets skin, stuff happens in the amygdala and emotions get called into play in ways that just don't happen when you're trying on new running shoes or looking at a new laptop purchase.
And trying to convince myself that it's just another commercial transaction hasn't worked so far.
an actress can play a serial killer in a movie. They are playing a part. its a fantasy. They don't see it as "engaging" in an intimate act, but if they are doing their job, YOU will see it that way. Their girl-parts are just props they use as an actress to create the fantasy you want. It does not feel "intimate" to them. They are way past that stage. Emotions come into play for some customers, but rarely for a provider. They "process it" just find, the same way you process going to your own job everyday. The footlocker guys just wants to make a sale on the running shoes. He could care less whether its an emotional moment for you. The provider wants YOU to have an emotional moment and BELIEVE that she is to, so you will come back. If you do repeat, she has done her job.
Hope this little reality check doesn't spoil it for you.
Did you really just say that shit out loud? YOU know exactly how a woman processes what she does with her body? Any man in here who holds himself out as an authority on the female psyche just because you've humped a bunch of them for pay is seriously kidding himself. As the man said, "You may have fucked Elvis, but you didn't know him."
And you must buy running shoes very differently from me; getting a new pair of Nikes doesn't involve me putting my dick in the clerk's mouth.
The point I'm making isn't that I know how any woman processes this stuff. I don't. And I should have made clear I don't speak for every man on the planet. But I maintain that the physical intimacy makes this thing different. We are not purely mechanical beings. Maybe it's just the Yoda in me.
Others think of is as "it's just sex" and that's how most providers and even most mongers look at it.
As for the Nikes, I haven't bought a pair for quite some time, but if a blowjob came with every pair, count me in.
Yes, maybe it is the Yoda in you, not all of us think sex is anything more than sex, especially when we are having it with multiple, and by "multiple" I mean hundreds or even thousands of different partners.
I've read a lot of your posts and it seems to me you're pretty thoughtful, so I would offer this additional thought. Of the 3-400 women I've seen in this world (I started long before there was a TER to help me keep count), I've never once even intimated to one that she shouldn't be doing this. All the women I've seen are adults (at least by age) and that decision is entirely theirs. But i suspect all of us have walked out of a session thinking "That was so awkward I'm not going back there until this person at least can pretend for an hour that she's comfortable doing this". And that's all I was getting at. The OP got me thinking about some of those "YMMVs" we see in reviews and the widely divergent experiences with the same girls. Not to mention some of the famous flameouts we've seen on these very boards. But I wouldn't be here fucking women in exchange for money if I didn't believe, all other things being equal, that we are all adults making independent decisions.
is that one cannot easily separate the person from the service as is the case for most other services. Even in the case where direct physical contact is generally part of the non-sexual services most of us would be perfectly fine with some device that could perform the service as well as another human.
I think for most of us here that is not the case for P4P. Dolls, BJ machines for our Teslas and sex robots are simply not going to be the same as a real woman. I think that does matter and the woman is not going to be able to separate them self from the service as a waitress, CPA, attorney, financial advisor or gardener, housekeeper or a masseuse can.
That, however, does not necessarily mean it become a really intimate activity for the woman (or man) that carries all the same levels of trust, vulnerability and emotional attachment typically associated with the term "intimate".
I would also mention that when I got started in this years ago one of the first providers I saw mentioned she was "just like men" and always horny. She had been a porn star as well. I think part of what she was saying is that the usual stereo types for men and women should not be assumed in this particular world. The moral here is we really never know what is in someone else's head. Good communications help on that but will be imperfect. So don't put your thoughts in someone else head, even if you think you are doing good and "the right thing".
That doesn't mean you change how you act and interact with these women, but don't be so paternalistic an think you need to defend them like some knight in shining armor. More than a few are on these forum and prove time and time again they can speak for themselves.
First, remember I started my post by conceding I don't know what goes on in a woman's head. So despite your attempts to pigeon hole me and put me down, I'm pretty sure I don't qualify for white knight status. If you read my last review, or the over 100 I wrote under the handle Phunhog, you'd know I call balls and strikes and I don't put runners on base just to be nice. Hence, the lazy insults are both unwarranted and unhelpful to the dialogue.
As for putting thoughts in other people's heads, you realize that humans do that every time they communicate, right? You did it in your note where you asserted that your view is right and that mine (which I fear you were quick to dismiss without fully understanding) is wrong. This form of exchange has been going on since we developed multiple cells. I welcome your thoughts on the subject and I would never question your freedom to put thoughts in my mind. I'm free to accept or reject them, and hopefully I will think them through before I do either.
Absolutely there are women and men for whom sex can be purely transactional. And shame on me if I suggested that this is not part of the human experience. That was not my intent. As Jenna Jameson famously said (I believe it was she), if you're getting into porn you'd better really love sex because the money won't make up for it if you don't. But I pause when I see a post such as that by the OP because it suggests a different story from a different part of the spectrum. I don't know that any sociologist has conducted a meaningful study of this notion, but I'd be interested to read it if someone did. I suspect there are some uncomfortable truths to be learned. If I'm wrong, so be it. But until then I will try mightily to avoid categorizing a woman--or any fellow human for that matter--as an assemblage of prop pieces. I don't see how that does any of us much good.
And now I'm going to double down on it. I'm coming up on having seen 1000 providers in the past 12 years, have dated over 50 OTC and had outside L-T real-life relationships with eleven, counting my current GF. I don't hold myself out as an authority on the "female psyche" but I have enough experience in this biz and dating providers on the outside to speak confidently about provider perspective when it comes to how they view their job and their customers. I'm confident that GaGa would concur that when you have a real outside relationship with a provider, you will hear the unvarnished truth about how they view their time with their customers. I have actually come to give them more credit and respect after learning about how they manipulate the intricate social dynamic with customers who are trying to buy love and not just sex. If they have sold YOU that there's some kind of emotional moment when they have sex with you, then kudos for you both. It means you have found a keeper as a provider, and they have found a regular customer that they can count on for a recurring revenue stream, which is what all working girls want. Its a win-win.
Their girl-parts are the tools of their trade WHEN THEY ARE WORKING, just like a good mechanic works magic with a high-quality socket set. When they are with someone they love, its completely different and they are like any other woman. THAT is where you find true intimacy on their part. The better they are at their job, the less you will realize its not really a feeling of intimacy for them. Most are professional actresses. They're selling you a fantasy, and in most cases a damn good one. Just enjoy and don't try to over-analyze what is going on. It is what it is.
You have also doubled down on your position that having sex with a provider involves MUTUAL intimacy. If you still believe that, then the providers you're seeing are DOING THEIR JOB. You are SUPPOSED to feel its a special moment between you. If you don't, then you would never repeat, and there are many mongers who don't repeat because they have figured it out.
Is skin contact the defining thing here?
My cmt also does a lot of skin to skin contact. Is it really that different?
Aside from simulating or pretending to have pleasure, is it really that different for people who have bought hundreds of such services and who sold hundreds of such services?
I get that for many, it feels like it's some sacred thing that is different, but is it really? Idk.
Not all skin-to-skin contact is the same. A CMT (the licensed kind, not the hobby kind) does practice skin-to-skin contact, but it's very limited by TER standards. It's just the skin on her hands and forearms touching your back, shoulders, chest, etc., and any part not being touched is draped with a towel. In the hobby, we have full-body skin-contact and hands going all over. It's like comparing a Culver's burger (good but not super great) to a USDA Prime burger in a Ruth Chris steakhouse.
That's like taking a Mac 25 and mixing it with soda, or even worse, with coke. lol
The point is, what is the breakpoint that makes it different? Is it the genital touching?
Idk, I get the intimacy and affection part, but that intimacy and affection in non-p4p sex comes from mutual attraction on non-physical level and some intangible feelings. You could have mutual attraction in p4p, but how common is that? And intangible feelings are usually not there at all, unless you know the provider well and she knows you and you develop some kind of traction.
Idk. Maybe it's the cynic in me, and I know some go to escorts to have this fantasy, but I usually see the sessions more of a physical variety than ethereal kind of thing. I mean there's true love, theres love, there's affection, there's physical attraction there's lust and there's p4p lust. From top to bottom the most affectionate to least affectionate. I could never really fully buy into a fantasy.
Intimacy is subjective. For example massage. Under Islam massage is only allowed to be done by a person of the same gender. And large areas of the body are forbidden zones. And of course when we get to clothing, we've all seen Islamic females hidden under those garbage bag like tents they are forced to wear -- lest our eyes get too intimate.
.
You can say that escorts are unlike waitresses or mechanics or even massage therapists on some psychic level ... and you could be right ... for specific individuals. It all depends on what they believe. But it is not universal that all escorts view sex as some sort of sacred thing -- some shame inducing activity.
As an example people raised in religious households had it beaten into their heads that sex was much more than a physical act, and decades of having something pounded into your head is very hard to undo. Most of this world believes in some kind of "invisible sky daddy" that is highly judgmental and demands total obedience if you want happiness in your eternal life. Trying to undo generations of brow beating is tough to do, and they can't help but project their own feelings on the subject onto the sex workers they see, but are secretly, or not so secretly ashamed about "having to see" because of their human "weakness" I think it's much like many still closeted gay people who are members of highly religious families must feel.
That said, not everybody feels that way, just like to some people "a cigar is just a cigar" to many of us "sex is just sex" and to many sex workers, sex with customers is just "work" nothing more and nothing less.
It all just depends.
I had no idea that we had a new GD Board moderator.
And just what gives you the right to close a "subthread", something more usually referred to as a "branch" that you aren't even part of?
I have no idea if anyone else wants to continue this conversation, but what I do know is that you have ZERO power to end the conversation. If you don't want to be part of this conversation, I have a novel idea for you. DON'T, but don't think you can simply end the conversation by decree. Unless of course Admin did make you moderator when the rest of us weren't looking.
I'm not closing anything GaG. Just adding my 2 cent on the discussion. Seriously, do you really think I was saying "CONVERSATION CLOSED"?
But great to know I can express an opinion.
When you said "in conclusion" considering you hadn't said ANYTHING in this branch up til then it sure sounded like you were attempting to "conclude" the conversation. Did they change the meaning of "conclude" when I wasn't looking as well? lol
If you would just like to say that perhaps "in conclusion" was perhaps a poor choice of words, I can go along with that.
Maybe you meant "in summation" or something similar, but I am not a mind reader, I can only comment on what you actually said and by saying "in conclusion of this subthread" any reasonable person would read that to mean the subthread as you are calling it would be "concluded" ie "ended" with your post.
Or perhaps that this was the conclusion I (or perhaps others or what I think other could) come to after reading it.
Is it day three for you or something?
However, I would point out that "in summation" is considered equivalent to "in conclusion" (http://www.wordhippo.com/what-is/another-word-for/in_summation.html) and given we are hardly in some highly specialized linguistic setting (e.g., a law court) I think you are being a bit, how should I say it in GaG terms...prissy maybe in splitting this hair. lol
Maybe I am just so used to parsing words with the likes of BPOS, that I am splitting hairs a bit.
Not to mention, this is my third day in a row without sex, I did drink an entire pot of coffee on an empty stomach and maybe I am just a bit grumpy. PLUS I was accused yesterday of being a "kinder and gentler" GaGambler and I do have a reputation to uphold you know.
Maybe a meal, a drink and some pussy and I'll be back to my usual jovial self again? lol
I was actually thinking about your reputation and comment to MasterZen about a return to form.
But yes, a good meal, drink and good sex will always put things right - even in a fucked up world
Male menopause is a bitch. LOL
Maybe I am just so used to parsing words with the likes of BPOS, that I am splitting hairs a bit.
Not to mention, this is my third day in a row without sex, I did drink an entire pot of coffee on an empty stomach and maybe I am just a bit grumpy. PLUS I was accused yesterday of being a "kinder and gentler" GaGambler and I do have a reputation to uphold you know.
Maybe a meal, a drink and some pussy and I'll be back to my usual jovial self again? lol
I love how you guys say you've fucked over 100 women or even a 1,000, numerous girlfriends and wives and ex-wvies. All that tells me is you don't have a fucking clue about women or you'd be with the same one and not fucking around - or you have your own baggage like the OP.
All I know is the best explanation of women I've heard is,'They are all bat shit crazy. Their level of crazy depends on how well the governor works".
I don't care if you've changed a 1,000 brakes, you still might be a shitty mechanic and not know what you're doing. I've known my share of trained certified mechanics who are crap mechanics. People think all doctors are the same they are not.
Anyway, an oldie but a goodie.
A young man was walking along one of Southern California's sandy beaches with his surfboard. He suddenly spots this bottle which has recently washed up on the beach. It's obvious it's been tossed around for a long time. He picks up the bottle and notices that it still has the cork intact. So, being curious as to what may be inside, he manages to get the cork out and out pops a Genie.
After expressing profound appreciation for having been let out of the bottle, the Genie grants his benefactor the classic, "one wish" and it will be yours. Being an avid surfer, it doesn't take him long to say,
"I've always wanted to surf Hawaii, but I get seasick on ships and I'm afraid to fly. Would you build me a bridge to Hawaii?"
The Genie replies:
"Do you know what you are asking for? Do you know how long the bridge would have to be? Think of the enormous challenges for that kind of undertaking. The supports required to reach the bottom of the Pacific! The concrete and steel it would take! It will nearly exhaust several natural resources. And the maintenance of that bridge! No, think of another wish."
The man said OK and tried to think of a really good wish. Finally, he said,
"I've been married and divorced four times. My wives always said that I don't care and that I'm insensitive. So, I wish that I could understand women ... know how they feel inside and what they're thinking when they give me the silent treatment ... know why they're crying, know what they really want when they say nothing ... know how to make them truly happy ... I really want to understand women and how they think!"
After a long sigh, the Genie responds:
"Would you like that bridge with two lanes or four?"
Ive heard several variations of this joke....but it never gets old.
...Or incorrect.
but that has to be the lamest Genie I've ever heard. What good is being magical if you're going to whine about resource constraints. You never heard that crap on I dream of Jeanie did you?
But not a bad joke.
Who was listening to anything, I wanted to bang Barbara Eden so bad as a 13 year old. She was hot.
TV censors wouldn't let her show her belly button.
every married couple on TV slept in twin beds, and no DFK on TV. Now they practically show them fucking.
Ginger and Mary Ann also couldn't show their belly buttons circa 1964. Star Trek had Uhura display hers in 1967 and Nancy Kovack also on Star Trek in 1968. And Cher regularly showed her navel in 1971 and beyond. But the first navel award goes to Yvette Mimieux in 1964 on Dr. Kildare. The code was eliminated in 1984 having been first established in 1951. Thanks for coming to my TED talk.
Charging admission.
In all reality; no person should be treating sex workers in a nasty way (Reguardless, if you are being sarcastic tone or saying actual nasty things in a degrading tone.). First of all, if it wasn't for people such as the "PROUD HOBBYISTS" who see us "THE PROVIDERS", Then the sex workers "PROVIDERS" wouldn't be doing what they are doing (If you understand what I am saying).
Kitty, Exactly.