I was just watching opening remarks on the 9-11 FBI debacle by Senate intelligence chair, Patrick Leahy, a Vermont democrat. Senator Leahy took a swipe at Attorney General Ashcroft by questioning the amount of time and resources that the FBI was investing in busting a prostitution ring (post 9-11) in New Orleans when they could be better engaged elsewhere, protecting the safety of the American public. Leahy sarcastically opined that the public would probably be shocked to know that there were prostitutes in the big easy and that this and similar cases could best be handled by local LE.

Interestingly, local LE told the FBI that they were not interested in the 90+ wire tap conversations that had been accumulated on this one escort service. Apparently LE in the big easy isn't too terribly concerned with another cat house/outcall service being run within the city limits.

I can see Ashcroft now patting himself on the back for putting this one escort service out of business while a boat load of terrorists drive a dirty bomb up the Mississippi and destroy the super dome and the French Quarter. Ashcroft would probably consider this a fittingly biblical end to the place. MfSD.

In a previous thread, someone stated the laws in this country are antiquated.  That is SO true.

It seems that certain laws have not been changed/modified to keep up with present times.  Take for instance, the numerous laws on morality/ethics.  There is NOTHING wrong with adult entertainment.  So, why keep it taboo?

Many European countries, focus their LE activities on issues that are much more critical in keeping their communities safe, and crime free.   Amsterdam is a great example.  They have a red light district, and it like going to a shopping mall.  Things are organized, rates are affordable, the provider is STD free, and the environment is clean and safe.  The providers pay taxes, and that really fuels Amsterdam's economic growth.

Singapore, and Bangkok are other cities that despite having stern laws (illegal to chew gum) look the other way when it comes to strip clubs, massage palours, and providers.  The only time LE gets involved there is when there are numerous complaints.  

I echo senator Leahy's sentiments.  There is too much commotion going on in the US post the 9-11 tragedy.   US and its citizens would be better served if the LE concentrated on making our borders more secure, and serving as a catalyst to bring about racial/ethnic harmony.  

US spends billions of hard earned US Tax payer's dollar frivilously.  Take for instance the amount of money being spend to support, the FBI, CIA, Secret Service, National Security Agency, and now Homeland Security.   Count them that's 5 agency to do similar things, and without accountability!  

Another issue I have is this so called war on drugs.  Hey!  I DON'T use them (never have, never will).  Yes!  I want them of the street.  But, it seems to be a losing battle.  After spending billions of dollars, the net gain in terms of stopping drug trafficing is minimum.  If they legalized it, like in Europe, the government can control the spread of diseases and use LE for more productive endeavors.  

In closing, if all of the Congressmen/Senators were saints there obsolete laws would make a huge difference. We all know they are not.  

Several years ago, street walking on 14th street in Washington DC was a okay.  A senator got caught soliciting, got press, and then passed a law banning it.  The law went to the extreme were if the John was caught soliciting, his car would be confiscated -- needless to say, there was  alot of bruhaha over it.  

Take the ex-President, and his exploits, the list goes on and on.  

Enough said!  It's election year, and let make a deligent effort in getting more liberal and progressive thinking political candidates into the White House .

"It's election year, and let make a deligent effort in getting more liberal and progressive thinking political candidates into the White House ."

You mean into congress, don't you?  I am not going to engage in a political debate, BUT (1) I'm with you on YOUR main issue, but (2) MY main issue is getting the liberals and progressives out of my pocket.  And, if someone is going to get in my pocket, it better be for another stealth bomber, not for welfare and social experiments.

we don't need religous zealots like Ashcroft blinded by his personal views making bad policy decisions(with my and your hard earned tax dollars). That's assuming one considers(as I do) the eradication of essentially victimless "crimes" such as prostitution bad policy.

Events like 9-11 have a focusing effect on what is and is not truly important. I certainly don't want to see criminals run amuck with the FBI engaged totally on anti-terrorism efforts, but I also expect prudent policy decisions based on the exisiting threat and the available resources.

I do find it ironic that you state you want the liberals and progressives out of your pocket, but in the very next sentence say you don't mind having your pocket picked for a stealth bomber(I hope you mean the B 2, because the B 1 is a piece of shit). That is a different debate for a different forum, but I do find it interesting that three folks with such obviously different political philosophies can agree so completely on this one issue. The power of pussy perhaps? (: MfSD.

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-- Modified on 6/6/2002 11:15:21 AM

I am in total agreement with Kama Sutra, and MfSD.  

People like Ashcroft have no business being in the White House, Congress or any other political forum.  There were strong allegations that he is a racist ... and that to me is upsetting.  I respect that he has strong religious view -- however, I DESPISE his attempts in forcing his views on others.  After all, we live in a free country... I say, no more RELIGIOUS zealots in Congress.  Enough is enough already!

Now, about building additional B 2's.  I am against that.  The B 1's and B 2's have cost tax dollars nearly one billion US dollars / plane.  These planes are more hype than anything else.  The folks who have profited the most from this are the plane manufacturers, and members of Congress who have stock in these companies.  

The amount of money we waste on building these planes is ridiculous.  We all would be better served if the US government provided us some tax relief, focused on healthcare/research (AIDS vaccines, cancer cures, etc), and in tough times providing better unemployment benefits.

Put the pedal to the metal this election year!

I would rather prostitution be illegal than tolerate living either in Europe or Southeast Asia.  Europe is a society that is in slow decline.  Their economies would not do all that well if we pulled out our troops and let them support their own defense and get off milking our teat.  Look what happened to the Philippines economically when we pulled out of Subic Bay. We only need maintain relationships with Britain and Turkey. European countries also watch their people a lot closer, even with the recent changes in our laws.  Oh, and maybe after paying their income and value added taxes you might not have any money left for sex anyway.

As for Singapore, Bangkok, please...  they have draconian laws like the chewing gum law because their citizens are filthy. They have no problems whipping it out and pissing right on the street. Those laws are the only things stopping them and maintaining clean cities. Oh, and their governments are soooo progessive when it comes to human rights!  I don't think there are too many independents working out that way, either.

Now there is the good ol' USA.  Prostitution is a misdemeanor but, I can speak out about it and not get jailed.  I can complain about the mistreatment of women at a brothel and not get whacked by mobsters, police or both.

Oh, prostitution is not always a victimless crime.  Sure, in the U.S. we see many independents and they are simply in the business of selling a certain level of intimacy. Not everyone is an independent though.  How about the Russian Agencies?  Russian Mob is a better term.  They're not hurting anyone, right? Yeah, in the San Fernando Valley they have kindnapped people for ransom and dumped the bodies in a lake up North.  Then there was that jewelry store robbery when the man and woman were shot. Yes, that's right!  It was a Russian Mob hit over $150K, not a robbery.  Like Bartles & Jaymes used to say, "thanks for your support!"

I'll put up with a little right wing diatribe any day and simply go about my business and speak in opposition. The USA is still the greatest country on the earth.  Don't belittle this country in comparison to others that exist only because they benefit from our generousity and good will.

Consider what has been done about the Bush Administration's failure to "connect the dots" leading up to the 9/11 massacre. NOTHING!  In fact, they suggest that you are not patriotic if you don't support the President fully.

However, get a Blow Job in the White House and you'll get impeached.

So, is it any surprise that the focus is on busting escorts and not Terrorists????

You're pretty much all over the map with this post, so I'll focus one a few key points. If you read my post carefully, you'll find that I use the phrase "essentially victimless crimes" when I refer to prostitution. Certainly there are tremendous injustices committed around the world in the subjagation of women, but it's a given that this web site is mainly focused on independent providers and some agencies in this country. By and large these ladies are working as escorts of their own free will.

I don't see anything wrong with comparing this country to others, particularly in areas where the US is backward or unenlightened. Having said that, I have lived overseas and traveled to different places around the world and I certainly consider the US the greatest place to live. Our freedoms and form of government are admired and envied around the globe not to mention our lower rate of taxation.

I don't have to love America or leave it. It isn't an either or proposition. As you somewhat eloquently stated, you can complain about something in this country without being jailed or whacked. MfSD.




-- Modified on 6/7/2002 7:39:25 AM

Dear Good, a lot of those 'dots' showed up when your boy Bill was  in office. And escorting is a local issue. One more thing - Bill was impeached for LYING, not getting a helmet shine from a chubby intern.

Clinton was impeached to the mass yawns of the American public and never convicted. The GOP is still smarting over not being able to ever get to Clinton. Was he a liar and a devious snake, sure, but show me one politician that doesn't posess some of those charecteristics.

Oh, by the way, he did preside over the longest peace time economic expansion in the history of this country. MfSD.

He lied UNDER OATH - completely different than BSing during an election.

As far as Clinton and the economy, he had nothing to do with the expansion.

You still didn't address my main point. Prostitution enforcement is a local issue. So stop the cheesy bashing. Ashcroft is an idiot but he's not calling the the police chiefs of every major city and demanding that they crack down. The locals are looking for people to get cash out of - providers and their customers are easy game.

Typical GOP response. Deny Clinton any credit for his stewardship of the greatest peace time economic expansion in our country.

Read my original post at the top of this thread. Senator Leahy's point was that the FBI WAS wasting time and resources cracking down on an escort service (post 911) when their time and resources could have been better spent elsewhere.

I don't think Ashcroft is an idiot, far from it. And I don't think he's calling any local LE chiefs. I think he's an overzealous, religious man who needs to get his priorities straight vis a vis what is really threatening our nation. MfSD.

-- Modified on 6/10/2002 7:27:27 AM

Erotic Explorer,

Boy!  You sure are strong opinions that bounce all over the wall

Let me start off by saying, you are wrong when you state that European society is on the decline.   Just because a country has liberal views on adult entertainment doesn't make them the scum of the earth.  

Europe has a rich culture, and strong history. Perhaps, the taxes are a tad high -- but, they do NOT exploit the working class as much as we do here in capitalistic America.  In Europe, there are strong labor laws that protects white/blue collar folks.  Is that true in USA? Are you kidding?  The laws enacted during the Regan administration strip up any protection non-unionized labor had.  With the passage of the "employment at will" law, a company is no longer obligated to provide you with a reason for your termination.  Yeah!  THAT IS GREAT JOB SECURITY ;-(!

Among all the developed nations in the world, USA ranked dead last when it came to providing good benefits for it's human capital/resources.  Canada was on TOP of that list...

Some of the benefits our European counterparts enjoy are:

-  Minimum 4 - 6 weeks paid vacation
-  15 plus paid vacation days
-  A workweek is 35 hours/week (the company has to provide two 15-minute breaks, and 1/2 hour for lunch)
-  The employee cannot be terminated at will.  Just cause has to be demonstrated inn an arbitration hearing
-  If laid-off, you get a substantial portion of your income as your unemployment benefit (In California, if you qualify it's a maximum of $ 230/week for 26 weeks.  That is less than $ 6000 for 6 months -- try and justify that.  You would be luck to survive 2 months maybe 3 on that dollar amount)
-  Overtime is paid for.  Unlike here, where the corporation fully exploits you into putting well over 40 hours.
-  Medical benefits free of cost to all citizens


In terms of privacy -- don't fool yourself.  The NSA monitors over 2 million communications every hour.  With the new laws enacted by Congress, wire-tapping does not require a Judge's approval, or Court order.


There is something to be said for world economy.  Perhaps we are self-sufficient.  Nevertheless, let's not fool ourselves that we don't need diplomatic/economic ties with other countries.  There is good reason why we have strong ties with the Arab nations -- can you spell OIL!

We have ties with European countries that result in mutually beneficial economic growth.  Guess what?!  Where do you think the most advances are made in wireless technologies?  Hmmm ...let me think Europe.  The wireless phones we use Nokia, Erickson (I not sure of the spelling) are HQ'ed in Europe.  

Let's talk high-tech technology.  The first enterprise software was developed in Germany, SAP. IT still is the front-runner.  Most of the high-tech stuff is now done in India, and other SE Asian countries.  Who and where was CD technology invented?  Sony, and in Japan!

The military support we provide other countries is primarily to protect our interests.  Personally, I think that money would be better spent helping the middle-class American in realizing their dreams -- owning a house, having saving to send kids to colleges, and abolishing homelessness, etc.  

Let's take our latest war on terrorism.  We all denounce it.  We make Pakistan our ally in our fight against terrorism, and give them over a billion dollars to help us in our crusade to capture Al-Queda.  Have we gotten the desired results?  On the other hand, Pakistan is sponsoring cross-border terrorism into India.  What have we done to stop it?  The answer is NO.  We have our hands tied -- we aligned ourselves with a country that is adept in double-talk.  Pakistan has done nothing to stop cross-border terrorism.   Politician in the White House keep making blunders...

Let us examine our own backyard when it comes to human rights and other things.  

- What are your thoughts about a women’s right to choose?  
- Do you think its okay for a pro-life doctor to be murdered?  
- Alternatively, their clinics to be bombed?  
- What are your thoughts on the "glass ceiling"?  
- Is it okay for corporate America to exploit its employees?  
- Why is there an inequality in pay based on gender and race/ethnicity?
- No medical care if your uninsured – do you think that’s okay?

I think I have said enough.  In closing, I would like to state I am proud American.  I like living here, and what this great nation has to offer.  However, I am also open-minded to seeing things are a broader sense.  Being patriotic doesn't mean that you accept everything the way it is.  

Much to the contrary, being patriotic means asking the tough questions, challenging existing pre-conceived notions, and making a difference by thinking outside the box for new ideas, keeping the politicians honest, being a good humanitarian, being law abidding ...

The beauty of a true democracy is that people have rights.  One of them is the right to free expression.  Just because you don't agree with someone's opinions or ideals you don't have to leave the country.    

Enough said ...

- x man


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-- Modified on 6/9/2002 9:37:14 AM