Is contacting the providers family the 'ultimate line' never to be crossed? I am in love with Ky from SF and I called her evil stepdad to try to get her back photos of her mother who died when she was 16. Right after that she ran away from home and became a hooker. She told me she really wanted them back so I looked upo her step dad and got them back for her. But she found out and now she says she will never talk to me again because I crossed the 'ultimate line'. What can I do?

Dude, you need counseling.  I haven't spoken to a favorite friend of mine because her family is visiting, in spite of the fact that she mentioned she'd like me to meet her mother.  It's not that I'm avoiding her, but she's entitled to private time, in HER life.  You paid to see her, and YOU fell head over heels in love.  Don't expect that to mean that she wants you moving in, or anything other than your cash.  At this point, you're more likely to get a restraining order from her than a BJ.

You *have* crossed the line, though not the ultimate one which would be outing her.

I guess you could try anything, but now don't be surprised if she regards it as stalking.  

Never invite yourself "nicely" into a provider's personal life and do personal favors for her behind her back.  You're a client.  You wouldn't do this uninvited for your accountant, would you?  If you'd think about that, you'd see immediately how weird it was.    

There are many lines to cross, and you definitely crossed several of them. Leave her alone and continue your therap.  Learn from this mistake, congratulate yourself for having the courage to post, and move foreward.

-- Modified on 1/23/2007 5:21:00 PM

-- Modified on 1/24/2007 8:40:02 AM

I am relatively new to TER since mid last year. So I am not used to receiving high quality service and upscale providers.

After seeing a provider last year, I did some things I probably should not have. In retrospect I got carried away and "forgot it was a service." What I did was pretty stupid and I am beginning to think I "blew it" with my ATF.

My suggestion would be to apologize to her and wait several months before trying to see if she will see you again. At that time try to show that you have matured and would not do the same thing again. Worth a try, may or may not work.

took a shit on it. Anytime you want to get involved again remember this incident and think again, and then again if any white knight fantasies still rear their head.
rule 1 is the most important rule of all and just hurts everyone if you forget it.
for those who dont know...

RULE 1 NEVER LET YOURSELF GET PERSONALLY INVOLVED AT ANY LEVEL YOUR NOT THEIR BOYFRIEND, SO, OR DADDY SO ITS NOT YOUR PROBLEM. JUST PAY YOUR CASH AND DROP YOLUR PANTS. THEN GO HOME AND WATCH ADULT SWIM BLISSFULLY UNAWARE THAT ALL IS NOT RIGHT IN THE WORLD!

You fucked up, plain and simple. Be a man, learn your lesson and move on.

Never contact this girl again either. You've obviously forgotten rule #1 - this is a business, it's not love, friendship or anything other than a business transaction. You should take a break from the hobby and put things into perspective before you rejoin. Otherwise you are likely to do something stupid again with another provider.

Lastly, you should kick your own ass for being such a shithead. MYOB dude.

In helping a provider - don't do anything unless you are asked... don't do anything that would jeopardize her job (providing) and never ever, screw with her family - EVER!

Wow. This is a sobering line of talk. I really should have consulted the boards before doing this.
Believe me I feel like a super shithead as it is. But I'll say this one thing, she is the only provider I've ever seen, and I saw her maybe 30 times over the last year, and emailed and wrote her every day at least twice. She wrote me or spoke with me almost every day for a year also. I sent her gifts, and she and I confided in each other on a very intimate level. Last December 16 she told me she loved me, and then two days later that she wanted to leave the business and be monogamous with me. I told her I'd take care of her every need. Then she ran away for three weeks and wouldn't return my calls. I think I sort of went crazy and I was thinking what can I do to save her which I never did before, I always was content with her being a provider and she's a great one. But then I was obsessed with saving her and helping her to reclaim her past.
She told me I needed to 'get my head together'.
I'm thinking now that I've been living in a fantasy land, and have woken up to find I've not been a prince, but an asshole. Ouch.

Not only that, if you are interested in continuing to hobby, it seems that admitting to this behavior in front of the entire hobbying community is somewhat counterproductive...

I was smitten, maybe in lust and probably came across as being too attached.

She is more experienced..  Did she she give him too much info?   No excuse for him

but family life is very personal and one thing we hold on to as a sacred bit.  In this business we don't have to many things that are sacared so to speak and so family is one thing we try to keep seperate.  Honestly when it comes to my personay life, you are not my SO, boyfriend, or husband or family period!!!!  As harsh at it may sound this is a business and we have to keep it apart from "home life" in order to have something to look forward to or to know no one has a part of.  You don't need to send me pictures or recieve anymore than I post.  That's totally a line crosser IMHO.  I like guys and want to continue to but there are points where the lines are crossed and one is steping or trying to step into a family setting.  SO NOT COOL!!!!!  

Tasha

Are you married?  I hope so, because just picture a provider contacting your SO... WTF... you need to post this on the Erotic Highway board and get some help from Love Goddess.

Smoothdeepsub,

Sure, I agree with all those who have written before: generally, it's an absolute no no to contact a provider's parents.

But, in all frankness, I don't like the tone that we've been taking here in so roundly condemning you.

This provider obviously told you a lot about her life - that her mother died when she was 16, that she ran away from home, that her stepfather wouldn't give her her own pictures of her mother, that she was very upset about that.

Yes, though well intentioned, as I'm sure you now realize, it probably was *not* at all a good decision to contact her stepfather without her permission.

But, my point is, the provider herself initiated crossing the boundary by providing all this extremely personal information to you.  That's not at all the usual provider/client situtation.

So, to some extent, she herself is *also* responsible for what happened next. You probably made it clear you were not just a client but also very much in love with her.

To analyze the accountant analogy someone else brought up: yes, but this was as though your accountant told you about her mother and her childhood, and then maybe invited you to dinner.  At some point, with any profession, things can by mutual consent transmutate from being only business.

Smoothdeepsub, don't let any of our prior remarks get you down.  You obviously meant well.  You made a very understandable (albeit a bad) decision.

Despite sounding off here, perhaps a little facilely, everyone here really wishes you well, I'm sure. Any one of us (despite printed protests) could have made this mistake if our own feelings of love had been as overpowering as yours.

Good luck.  You will get over this...if not with Ky, than with another provider. Or maybe a civilian SO who may soon appear just when you least expect it.  You certainly deserve better luck next time.

Remember: "Far better to have loved and lost, than not to have loved at all."

I hope these thoughts are helpful to you.

-- Modified on 1/24/2007 4:50:15 AM

I don't know -- I think this guy is a crazy stalker.  *Love*?  Did you read his review -- perhaps as disturbing as the post itself.  If I were a provider I wouldn't come near this guy.  He needs therapy, and these women should not be required to act as licensed therapists.  My recommendation would not be to go out and try again with another provider.  My recommendation would be to go and get professional help.

I don't disagree with the strong sentiments expressed, but would only add that there can be nuances and complexities, based on different situations.  About a year ago, I had an ATF who gradually told me of the real fix she was in, not of her making.  She didn't ask my help, but I was moved, her story checked out, and I offered to help but only if she wanted me to.  I promised to clear everything I wanted to do beforehand.  Over the next few months, I talked to some top lawyers on her behalf, introduced her to an organization that would take her case pro bono, met her lovely young children, met some of her friends, visited her in her immaculate home (only to take her daughter to her her music lesson!).  Sadly none of the initiatives worked out and she said, in effect,  "Thanks, but I've got to go my own way," and that was the end of it.  I don't regret for a minute that I tried to help her, even involving one or two of my close friends in the effort -- she was a worthy person who needed a helping hand.  I kept my promise to bug out whenever she decided to go another way, and I'm only sorry in the end I couldn't help.  Looking back, it was a considerable risk for everyone involved, but sometimes a special case makes it worth taking.

Buy a book on boundaries and read it.

Regardless of her occupation, you need some serious lessons in appropriate behavior vs. inapproprate behavior and what lines cannot be crossed.

Good luck in your journey, I commend you that you made this post and hope you learn from your mistakes.

Why would you do that, even if you thought the girl wanted her photos...  I mean, if I were dating somebody, I wouldn't do that...  Anyway, just my two cents, and maybe things are different with the girls that work in this field, but Geez.....

Yes, SDS crossed a line he should never have crossed.  And I commend him for his response to the feedback he has gotten.  But I am dumbfounded by the negative comments about his review of Ky.  He met a FS provider who does SM, which is pretty unusual, and she delivered the goods.  What the hell is wrong with that?  It's OK for us to see providers for BJs, FS and Greek, but getting pegged with a strap-on makes the guy a pervert??  

Now back to Ky.  Let's read her reviews.  Very intense person, gets very involved in her sessions.  You can easily see her blurring boundaries with a client, falling in love, etc.  SDS was equally vulnerable to this type of behavior -- they were almost made for each other.  Then he made one HUGE mistake -- he interfered in her personal life without her consent.  That is, indeed, a firing offense in this business.  She is entitled never to speak to him again, and he needs to learn his lesson.

But as for the rest of it -- come on, everyone.  Give this guy a break.  Does he have emotional and psychological issues?  Yes he does.  So do I.  So do most of the participants on this board.

although I stand by my "Whoa Nelly" post below.

I'm reading this all very carefully, and I am trying to hear what everyone is saying. I actually started to see a therapist because I was so troubled by the powerful emotions I was feeling towards her. I felt overwhelmed. What my therapist told me that because I had this traumatic event that I chose to recreate after 36 years of keeping it a secret, I ran this great risk of all the release of emotion. The feeling of relief and acceptance was unbelievable. But yet also I think the provider was put into an incredibly tough position of having to deal with this person having this emotional reaction and what to do. I told her again and again that I wold do anything for her to thank her for what she did for me-her incredible kindness and gentility and forgiving nature. She did absolutely nothing wrong in this, and I don't want this posting to in any way be harmful to her. No one has ever been more helpful to me, and the money I gave her doesn't begin to cover the services she rendered. But more and more as I read this I see how delusional my thinking has been, and that has me really worried. I also see that I have to absolutely stay away from her for ever and a day. Thank you everyone  for your tough but honest advice...

I have a similar friendship with a provider.  At one time I was in danger of falling in love with her.  In some ways, I've kept it very formal.  I know her real name, but I never call her by it.  

Believe me, the "L" word is easy to slip in there.  Once it's in there, one of you is likely to panic, no matter who said it.  

Never take the word "love" at face value here.  There's only about a 30 percent chance it's really love. What it usually means is that one of you, or both of you fell too completely for the illusion.  Providers are susceptible to this, too.      

Once your feelings began to deepen, it would have helped to see other ladies and try to disrupt the "love" you were feeling.  That would have kept your mind clearer about this.  You needed more experience with the game outside of what you were experiencing with her.  

From what you've added now, she's more likely to forgive you eventually.  Still I would not count on it, and I would not count on anything being the same if she does.  

As it is you got too monogamous. Along with jealousy, that is poison in the hobby life.

I never get tired of these stories.  Did your conversation go something like this:
"Hello sir, my name is Bill.  I fuck your daughter because she's a hooker and that's the only way I can get laid.  On occasion she fucks me in the ass with a dildo while her friend holds me down.  There are some pictures she'd like to have from the days before she became a whore and I was wondering if you could give them to me, and then the next time I pay her for sex, I can give them to her."  I would love to be a fly on the wall for this conversation.

hockey mask:  $25
leather work gloves:  $15
Listening to the disturbing tales of semi-psychotic tricks who will soon be buying the first three items from this list:  Priceless.

You don't need therapy guy.  You need a straight jacket and some Thorazine.

Or not? I would think it was easy for her to find out you contacted her step father if you handed over pics.

Let Go - Move On, Mail her the Pics.

some of us might think that a guy who feels compelled to have paid sex with at least 70 different women in a single geographic area and then write descriptions of each of those  encounters -- leaving aside probably dozens more ineligible for written reviews -- has his own issues.  Glass houses, dude.

Reid she get the photo's? [Edited by mod]

[Edited by mod, leaving only the last line which answers the question asked]

I did contact the stepdad a couple days later to make sure he'd done it and he had.

-- Modified on 1/25/2007 4:17:22 AM

This is about respecting boundaries.  The issues I may have are commonplace around here.  I'm horny 24/7 and I like to fuck.  This guy on the other hand, didn't seem to think that most of the girls who do this don't want us probing about in their personal lives.

From what i read above your not the only wack job in this relationship.
I recommend a trip to Brazil for a couple of weeks. Forget the woman exists by drowning in a sea of pussy, its the best medicine of all.
If she calls you hang up man do yourself a favor.

Let me wish you the best in all of this.  Hopefully the therapist can help you unlock your demons get you on the road to right.  We've all had our day with the dunce cap on (OK, you might have kept it an extra day or two), but try to make it a learning experiance and get on with it.  When you're REALLY ready to get back in the game, you should seriously think about contacting the admin folks here about changing your TER name, because you will scare away lots of people.  Please do them a favor and be certain that you're better equipped to make a decision before you go there.

Good luck.

This was getting totally out of control, and he ought to be glad that it's ended here and not with something far worse.  

I also agree with your prescription, Dr. Moebius8.  (Weren't you a lead in a very bad SF movie?)

then I would have had no problem.  But your first post was way over the top and even vicious towards a guy who, despite a clear transgression, sounds like a decent and vulnerable person who deserves compassion as well as criticism.  To be clear, I absolutely agree with you and others in this thread about respecting boundaries.

then I would have had no problem.  But your first post was way over the top and even vicious towards a guy who, despite a clear transgression, sounds like a decent and vulnerable person who deserves compassion as well as criticism.  To be clear, I absolutely agree with you and others in this thread about respecting boundaries.

[Edited by mod, but no changes were made. Somehow, both of your posts are tied together, so I couldn't delete the duplicate.]

-- Modified on 1/25/2007 4:28:05 AM

-- Modified on 1/25/2007 4:29:36 AM

. . . I cannot help reacting to how inappropriate these posts are, and why no one comments on that.  Bad enough that you invaded this person's private life and acted like a stalker.  You have now also put multiple posts about her personal life on an internet site that everyone in the world can see.  Since this is an actual person we are talking about, not some fictional character in cyberspace, you have now grossly violated her privacy yet again, and in a way that is perhaps more violative than the first.  If a provider tells you something about her personal life, on what theory do you share that with the world?  Would you like it if she did that to you?

You couch your postings in unthreatening, guilt ridden prose.  But your conduct speaks louder than your words.  Every time you put another post on, you invade this poor woman's life further.  Why don't you stop and leave her alone?

As for my fellow hobbyists who want to give this guy some kind of shoulder to cry on, give me a break.  Whatever his problems are, he has no right to inflict them on another person.  This guy should not be comforted but shunned by the rest of the community.  People like this give the hobby a very bad name indeed.

I think the moderator of this board should consider seriously removing all of this man's posts, and certainly those aspects that reveal this provider's personal life.  She is trying to make a living and her privacy should be respected.  I am stupefied that everyone seems to think this is ok.

I gave SDS a lot of leeway and benefit of the doubt in earlier posts.  Now in his last post he volunteers an incredible amount of completely personal details about the provider.  My friend, you may have learned a little from recent therapy and recent input, but you aint learned enough.  You need to SHUT UP about this entire subject except for discussing it with your therapist and maybe your new buddies in Sex and Love Addicts Anonymous (SLAA), a fellowship which in this instance I highly recommend.  YOU ARE CONTINUING TO VIOLATE THIS WOMAN'S PRIVACY.  PLEASE STOP IT NOW.

i would love to be in a sfi flick so bad it became legend. like patrick swazye in "steel dawn"
or the 3 third summercamp movie lol

Given the fact that there is no doubt whatsoever about who he is referring to in all of this, since he has only the one review, I almost wonder if this entire thread isn't an extremely passive form of revenge. The slow unraveling of the tale over successive posts is not unlike the person who says "I don't want to talk about it" then proceeds to throw out nuggets of whatever it is they don't want to talk about, waiting for someone to take the bait so that they can talk about it.

You are right, this message thread has gotten entirely too personal and revealing of information that I am certain this provider would NOT want discussed in such an open forum. She has my deepest sympathy. I can only say I am profoundly grateful it isn't me.

Setting aside the rational evaluation of Smoothdeepsub's behavior and situation, it is nice to know what you think of the women in this profession. Good on you. Such elegant language has left me speechless.

...let alone some providers.

I agree the thread needs to be pulled. He gave out to much information about this provider. If we truly cared for this provider he wouldn't have aired out her dirty laundry to all these strangers. He wouldn't try to put her down or run her down. He would have never contacted her family. He would have never posted this thread.

My advice to SDS is never get personal with a provider. You have entered into a business agreement with her. You're her client. That's all. My regular provider i adore, she is beautiful and very sweet to me. That's what i'm paying her for. She provides a service to me, it's just business. When i leave her i go home and so does she. She has her personal life and i have mine.My provider i believe is the best provider in my state. I give her more money then her fee, i give her very nice gifts because i want too. However i would never ever want to get involved with her outside of our business relationship. I also would never ever do anything to lose the business relationship i have with her. When she retires or gets married to someone or just gives up the business for whatever reason, i don't sweat it because another beautiful woman will be more then happy to fill her spot, take my money and gifts.

According to SDS this provider told him she loved him and wanted to move in with him, if i read that correctly. I think the provider is nuts also, but who am i to judge. Even though she might be nuts also, he had no right to do this to her.

If you don't, ask the Mod. But you are oblivious to what's being said here by other.

Open your post then click the edit and remove all content - simple.

It's not been stated how her step dad knew she was an escort. It's not been said how you must have confessed to him that you were a client.

You should retire. The damages to this provider are unbelievable - too bad she couldn't sue you to be force to know your mistakes cost others.

-- Modified on 1/25/2007 1:52:21 AM

his noble gesture she will want marry him and raise children while turning tricks on the side.

we share our experience and information.

Thread starter wanted advice and he got it.

Try psychotic and delusional. There's nothing decent and vulnerable about tracking down some girl's relatives, friends, SO's, etc. and approaching them about anything. While the guy probably wouldn't be as direct as MBNewbie's post, the net result would be about the same, only take longer. If you want to give him a group hug, count me out of that group.

-- Modified on 1/25/2007 9:34:54 AM

There are some assumed basic rules for both sides(providers & clients) here.
1. always be as safe as possible.
2. do what you say you will and be courteous and considerate.
3. remember everyone has a personal life and we don't intrude when we aren't invited.
U broke three and she can't trust you in the future.

This is an example demonstrating that morality definitely comes into play. This is akin to outing a gay person to his/her family.  It sucks.