Hi everyone.  Thanks for your help.  I'm a newbie and just have a some misgivings about giving out my full name, phone number, etc.  I totally understand why a provider would insist on this but am still wary of the possible misuses.  Is it legitimate for me to be worried about being blackmailed, LE later finding my name, or otherwise harassed?  

I really really want to meet a beautiful lady but I'm a little nervous!  If only it could be completely confidential!

The topic of giving out sensitive issue has been discussed quite a few times.  

The bottom line is that it comes down to your level of comfort.  In my humble opinion, sharing of sensitive information is a two way street.  

If the provider expect you to provide your life's history, is she willing to do the same?

Granted the ad provides a visual, and some other pertinent information about the advertiser.  However, it does not reveal her true identity. Sometimes, there is the involvement of the "bait and switch" element.  

Generally speaking, most advertisers use aliases, and other means to safeguard their identity.

Under the present circumstances, discretion is the better part of valour  I think providing a verifiable phone number, and references should be enough.  

Personally, that's where I would draw the line.  If some is visiting and wants to see my driver's license that's okay.  But under NO circumstances will I provide it to a stranger. If there is reciprocation -- it's another matter.

There are too many identity thefts, and other issues that worry me.

[PS:  This topic has been discussed a few times already.  Attached is a weblink to one of the more recent threads.]


-- Modified on 7/20/2002 3:23:53 PM

I'm extremely careful in my dealings with people. I take steps to ensure that I don't get taken for an unpleasant ride, and I don't walk into a situation where I would be in any danger from either LE or the unscrupulous. But my opinion about personal information seems to be much more liberal than most.

What can anyone do with your real name? The fact that a provider knows your name and your work number? So what? Is she going to blackmail you? With what? If the provider gets busted and LE finds your number in her computer, so what? What are LE going to do with that information. Nothing. It proves nothing, not even enough to establish probable cause (probable cause of what?) Think about the worst thing that could happen if another person were to know your real name and where you work. A lot of people, from all walks of life know my name and where I work. The information is fairly common knowledge, other than here, where anonymity is an adventure.

Now, I don’t give out drivers license number, though I’ve shown the drivers license to ladies and I don’t give my social security number to anyone, even the government. I’ve never been asked for those things, and I would suspect something fishy if someone did ask for them. But beyond that, these ladies take a big risk with every appointment they make. I think the risk of their screening is negligible by comparison.

Nobody ever seems to have a problem with Outcall, and these are guys inviting un-reviewed girls with agencies, drivers, pimps and security, to their f**king house. And their worried about a respectable lady knowing their work number?

I make sure I see ladies who are well reviewed on TER and they can have whatever information about me they want. Most of the time, when I’ve been asked for any information, the provider has forgotten my name by the time I make the appointment. They’re not writing anything down, or calling your work.  They just want to know you’re willing to give it.

http://theeroticreview.com/MsgBoard/ViewMsgBody.asp?BoardID=12&Messageid=24011

http://theeroticreview.com/MsgBoard/ViewMsgBody.asp?BoardID=12&Messageid=24069

http://theeroticreview.com/msgBoard/ViewMsgBody.asp?BoardID=33&Page=1&Messageid=1082

http://theeroticreview.com/msgBoard/ViewMsgBody.asp?BoardID=33&Page=1&Messageid=1024

-- Modified on 7/20/2002 6:07:50 PM

If LE finds your name and/or number on the little black book of a provider they have arrested, congratulations, that DOES qualify as probable cause to search both your phone records and bank records. See the Heidi Fleiss trial if you doubt it.

If I know your work number and your name, I can have all kinds of fun wrecking your life. What is your boss going to say when he gets the phone call from the woman with the sexy voice saying she is your whore. She then tells how you take off time from work to see her. You drive to her in the company car and pay for her meals and lingerie on the company credit card. None of it is true? Still the suspicion has been planted. Do you think that this news will not make it home to your wife? Think again. Her attorney will love that in the divorce proceedings.

That was a high profile, celebrity case. It's not fair to compare anything to do with that case to your run-of-the-mill visit to a local independent.

If your job and your life are so fragile that it could be ruined or even upset by some random anonymous phone calls that will likely never happen in the first place, for why would they?, then you have other far more serious problems than worrying about a well-respected provider, with a reputation to protect, knowing your real name.

The people I work for never communicate with my SO, or even know whether I have one. What kind of people do you work for, anyway, who would give half a damn what you do on your off time, or pay any attention to some crazy from your personal life calling the office? I can just see human resources getting the call: "I'm sorry, you're who's whore? Please hold, while I look up his employee number. Now, which whore am I speaking to?"

-- Modified on 7/21/2002 3:31:04 AM

I've never understood the paranoia surrounding the screening process and personal information. Yes...there are SOME THINGS you should not share casually (and certainly not with someone who is apparently comfortable being on the "edgy" side of the law). I can't imagine what reason an escort would need my driver license number (though if they wanted to see it to verify my identity in person, that would be fine) or my social security number.

But my name? My name, as you point out, is common knowledge. There are literally THOUSANDS of people who know my name. My address? Ditto. Both? No secret...if you have EVER received an unsolicted peice of mail, your name and address are as common knowledge as that of George W. Bush.

No one in my life would believe any BS story that any escort could cook up to blackmail me, because they know me, and because edvindence of such actvitity doesn't exist (because it isn't true). No reputable company would ever terminate an employee on undocumented hersay from a total stranger...and if a person WERE terminated by a less than reputable company for these reasosn, then guess what? They wanted to get rid of your ass anyway, and just wanted an excuse.

The only LEGITIMATE fears in my mind are two fold

1) If you are a person in the public eye (elected offical, celebrity, etc.) whose reputation would be harmed by specualtion (versus even truth) regarding your activites with an escort

2) You are married, and the state of affairs in your home is such that your wife wouldn't believe a denial on your part. (Perhaps becaue you have been stupid enough to spend what should have been the morgatage money on an escort?)

In either case, frankly, I have never understood why such guys hobbied anyway. If *I* had geniune and justified concerns of losing something significant that I cared about do to elective actions on my part, I would elect to not go through with those actions. But that is just me...I am not judging.

Back to the central point though...I agree with you. There is too much paranoia surrounding this issue. Most escorts want nothing more than to simply know that you are who you say you are, and that you are not LE. Anything she could find out by just looking at your mailbox (not even opening your mail..) and / or from a phone book, there is no reason to be so secretive about. And insofar as where you work and what you do for a living, she just wants to know that it isn't for local law enforcement as an officer of the law or of the courts. Guess what? It ain't a national secret (unless it is, in which case you ALSO shouldn't be seeing an escort....lol)

-- Modified on 7/21/2002 2:20:49 PM

Hey Chill,

As an independent that does do this type of screening for gents without provider references a couple of points.

First off DO YOUR HOMEWORK...  This goes for anyone looking to visit any type of biz for the first time.  But it never ceases to amaze me how few gents actually do it.  *shrug* Maybe just because they are new or whatever but... You want references on a house builder or the guy that sells you your car... surely the same can be expected of THIS big ticket item.

After you done said homework... be aware that most independents are indeed just watching for LE as earlier stated.  Or for whoever the local stalker/freaks may be.  Sad to say there are some out there... and they tend to be smart enough to try and cover their tracks by using alias' (aliai?LOL)  

Now I do check references... so when you give me your work # I ask for one that goes to a receptionist.  I then call and ask to be transfered to you.  Or if you are in that day.  That is about the extent of contact...

Once you have done this with a lady ASK HER TO BE A REF FOR YOU!!

If you do this right.. you should only have to do it once...

Just my .02 but there you are.

Be safe, be happy and be INFORMED!
Rebecca

I'll take issue with only one minor point. If you're a person in the public eye, the provider is likely going to know your name anyway, and a whole lot of other stuff about you besides.

A provider has to have a motive for trying to ruin your life. One motive might be blackmail, if she senses that you're paranoid about anyone finding out about your interactions with her, and therefore willing to give her money to keep the secret.

The operative word is "paranoid." This falls into the category of self-fulfilling prophecy. It can only happen if you're afraid it will happen.

A provider has to expose herself in order to do you any real damage. They’re not at all likely to do that. The key is not trying to hide your identity, but in making sure the lady your seeing has a strong sense of discretion. Most providers do, it’s their stock-in-trade.

Come on ladies, help me out here. I don’t want to defend you by myself.

Worst case scenario:

“Oh, she’s this crazy client that was upset with me for some reason, I never really figured out why. I can’t believe she’s trying to cause me trouble.”

“It’s this woman who got fired, she thinks I had something to do with it and she’s trying get back at me.”

“That’s the most bizarre crank call I’ve ever heard.”

“I have no idea who that is, but I’m damn sure going to find out!”

that's exactly it, you should only have to do it once. After that you can use the gal you've seen as a reference, through an anonymous email box, or by phone, without disclosing anything.

It protects both the client and the provider. Is it full-proof? No, but that doesn't keep you from screwing.

Ladies who carefully screen are cautious people. They are less likely to have LE entanglements that will put you at risk, whether they know your name or not.

By the way, NOSC, I wish you would stop calling and harassing my wife. My story about you being an ex-girlfriend, come back to haunt me, is starting to break-down. (Do you see how ridiculous that sounds.)

so often out of concern for a client or  by request, I've disposed of and shredded info on a client, so then 2 years later, when he asks, I cannot possily serve as an accurate reference. How do you gents propose we do give accurate references over a period of time without keeping any records? Also, information and circumstances change, a good egg can also become rotten.  I've seen it happen. So old information becomes useless, perhaps even endangering the provider who asks.  I personally dont want to give references without a refresher (repeat visit) from the client anytime over 1 year.  

Also: It is EXTREMELY important that the provider is ABSOLUTELY sure that she really KNOWS who that client is, or she has taken another provider's safety into her hands who has relied on her misinformation.

At this point I'm taking it on an individual basis rather than having a rigid policy ... oh  life can be so messy, messy, messy.


xoxo

FF




-- Modified on 7/21/2002 6:11:11 PM

You're absolutely right. I don't think you can give or accept a reference that is more than a couple of months old, within mental recollection.

Use the hand-off method. Your first reference is given to a provider and the latest provider you've seen becomes your new reference and so on, verified by an email address or phone number. The first provider who offered a reference is the only one who had your personal information, which is now long forgotten.

And thank you ladies, for being open to providing references.
But, guys, remember to ask the provider if she will give you a reference. They don't want to be getting calls from strange women they don't know, and they may not remember you off the top of their head, unless you've let them know they'll be getting a call from a specific girl.

-- Modified on 7/21/2002 7:05:42 PM

I have never understood the concept of provider giving references.  It might make sense for an agency.

1. Shouldn't she be discreet about her clients?
2. Can she remember the person at all?  After all, a provider usually has lots of clients.
3. Where can she find time to answer all these questions?
4. Isn't it awkward to know that the client choose to see someone else's other than having repeat visits?
5. How does she know that the caller is not the SO of a client?  How much trouble does she have to do to verify the concern of the caller is legit?


-- Modified on 7/21/2002 10:22:35 PM

Reoesn't she have enough to deal with in her life than providing references? ...

While those are valid questions...

I will ALWAYS act as a reference if a lady calls me... And do so to the best of my ability...

Yes we are discrete about our clients but here is a point... The main info exchange tends to go like this..."Hi Blue this is Rebecca.. have you seen a client by the name of _____. He says he saw you last a week or so ago.  He says you would remember him because he gave you a lift after the appt"  "Oh yeah I saw him he was fine." "Thanks"

Ok here we have several things that point directly to your concerns.  I always ask a client... "How will Blue remember you John?  Not to be indelicate but it is a common name. And how long ago did you see her."  Usually they will have some little thing that stood out for them.  He was late... He fell over... She inadvertantly kicked him in the head during a particularly exciting moment... whatever.  We also have a date to pin down.

As for discretion... The gent gave me the key for her memory... she and I trade no other info than he is ok or not... Altho I have been known to pass on a particular thing he likes or dislikes.  The call ends.  Short and too the point (unlike this response... LOL)

It isn't awkward that a client sees someone else... Some days I like Mexican, somedays I like Thai... I love to see the reviews a client has written about the other ladies he has seen.... even better when I see them before we meet.  No offense to any of you gents... but if you were one women men... well we would be out of a job...

As for it being an SO on the other end of the line... if I am contacting a provider I have never talked to... I at least will say "This is Rebecca of Seattle.. You can see my info at ____" and insert a link.  I am pretty vocal on my local boards... (Poor folks) so I am pretty visable... I am not above doing a little leg work if I don't recognize the lady on the other end of my phone.  "Hey I am not near my info... can I call you back?  And your name again?  Where do you advert?"

Indies need references even more than agencies... EVERY appt counts for us... and we are flying without a net... my co-workers ...my  "sisters" are my best and safest resource...

Hope that helps!
Rebecca

-- Modified on 7/21/2002 11:07:18 PM

"but if you were one women men... well we would be out of a job... "

"but if you were one women men... well we would be out of a job... "

Very frank...very true...something every hobbyist should remember before he gets tramatized offer seeing someone besides his ATF...lol.

A very informative and intelligent post. I am making a mental note for next time I am in Seattle...I get there often (and MAN do, I like an intelligent woman...)   :^)

I was more concerned with the fact that you were giving a false impression of what the legal possibilities are regarding search warrants and LE. You were leading people to believe that LE could not use a ladies black book as cause for a warrant and that is not true.

All the ladies should screen and I would suugest that no one see a lady that doesn't screen. To be much safer you are better off only seeing well reviewed providers.

There are a number of very wacked individuals running around and some of them are in this business. Just try a reading the posts by the ladie of some of the truly disturbed people that try to see them. There have also been a number of ladies that have tried to blackmail clients, steal their identities and just cause a general nuisance to the clients and their families. 99% of the ladies are great people and not hassle. The reviews help weed out the true wack jobs but someone has to take a chance and be the first to see a lady and there in lies the hassle.

If you feel so confident that your life can not be harmed by giving out your personal information, then post it right here for all to see! Leave your full name, home address and phone number. I will gladly post that information to a number of different hack and phreak boards on the net. By the end of the week you will have signed up for more credit cards, purchased more items, have made more long distance calls and become the member of untold strange groups/affilitations than you can believe. It will take you at least a year to clear your credit and you will defintiely have to change for phone number by Monday. With a little effort, I could really ruin your life.

Most people are NOT trying to harm you and the ladies NEED to screen. Just be aware of the danger you are putting yourself in.

-- Modified on 7/23/2002 12:14:27 AM

First of all providers have a right to screen for their protection and clients have a right not to give out information they consider to be a problem.  Just move on to the next provider if you can't agree.  I am not trying to debate screening vs non screening but just want some of the risks to be clear that some would dismiss out of hand.  

The real problem is usually not the lady attempting to blackmail you but LE ending up with her black book or computer records.  Although a few providers may not keep records most do.  Otherwise you would never get the follow up e-mails, etc. from providers you have seen.

A few years back I had scheduled an appointment with a provider I had known for a long time.  When I drove over to her house I noticed a car in the driveway and just continued past.  I went to a local telephone booth and called her several times without an answer.  I just blew off the appointment.  It turns out the car was an LE undercover car.  She was busted and they waited a few minutes hoping I would show up.  They confiscated her black book with names, phone numbers dollar amounts, etc.  

As usual the cops had done a sloppy job and screwed up the bust but they did want to nail her even though she was only an independent working alone.  Apparently a neighbor had complained and for some reason vice was all hot and bothered about this case.  

Later that night I had a message on my home answering machine asking me to call Detective XXXX at this phone number.  The next day I got a call from Detective XXXX at my office and I pretended that I was just an employee and asked if there was any message.  The message he left was to have me "call Detective XXX as soon as possible because they had arrested Jane Doe for prostitution and my name and phone number was found in her black book.  I did eventually call him back and essentially told him to kiss off.  The last step would have to send me a subpeona for the trial.  Apparently vice called a number of her clients and if possible tried to pressure(blackmail) them into testifying against her.  If they could not find a way to pressure you into becoming a witness, they just tried to harass you.  I was fortunate because I work alone and have no SO at home.

Now let's assume that I am either married or have a SO and work for a company with a number of employee.  Let's assume I directly supervise 10 women and 5 men and worked with 7 other department heads of which 3 are women and 4 are men.  The phone call on the answering machine at home is picked up by my SO.  I have to come up with an explanation of what the police want.  The message I described at work is left with the receptionist.  You can bet that this news will travel fast.  Not even counting any men the 10 women that work for me will think I am some sort of pervert.  Ditto for the 3 women managers.  Especially if they think if they know my SO.  "Look at that bastard cheating on his wife with a cheap prostitute".  Of course my boss will hear about it.  More importantly the way these people view me will change and tend to make me less effective in the organization.  Some will not want to work with me or stay late working on projects.  Even if they will work late my boss will wonder if I am a sexual harrassment suit waiting to happen.  Eventually with my loss of effectiveness my boss will look for a reason to get rid of me.  After all it is easier to replace me than the rest of the people in the organization.  Depending upon how clubby the business, I may not be able to find a job anywhere in that field.

Now back to my SO.  The crap hits the fan all over again when she sees a subpeona for me to testify in court.  If I am a marketing expert maybe I can tell her that I was just practicing to be better for her.  Or maybe I can say she just gave be BJ's and those are not really sex.  HaHa!

I am not saying this sort of crap happens in every case.  I am just saying that it does not have to be Heidi Fleiss for it to happen.  Also if Charlie Sheen could not avoid getting sucked into Heidi's case with all the money he has for hiring legal talent where does that leave the rest of us.  

I am not using my usual handle for this post.  But the story is true.


-- Modified on 7/23/2002 4:08:54 AM

this is a non issue. riker is right on: in most cases, who the hell cares if some woman has your name and phone number? what, is she going to go to the police?

your phone number is already a giveaway in states that have caller id or with phones that have callback features. calling from a payphone gets old really fast.

i am in an awkward situation: i'm retired. providers who ask for my work number can't have one. i give out my cell number, but not my home phone number. so in my case, provider references are worth a lot.

the main thing that hasn't been mentioned is that most providers are pretty shrewd about human nature. a five minute conversation is usually enough for them to get a feel for you. if you're nervous and feel awkward, just say so.

finally, you can always just say no. i went to an appointment a few days ago and the woman was lovely and all, but she didn't hug me or touch me and didn't seem at ease. so i hugged her. she offered me a shower and i suggested she help me dry off afterwards. this totally flustered her. she brought me a glass of water and was still acting nervous. i drank the water and said thanks, but i think i will pass. i explained that i didn't understand her reaction, and she explained that she never got the toweling request and didn't know how to respond, and i said that's fine, no problem, i want to leave you this tip to say thanks for the water and arranging the time and all, and i left.

And I'm sorry for the mess you had to go through. Getting busted is always a risk, and LE are vicious and unscrupulous. They will do what they can to mess up your life for no reason other than spite.

Of course, your story includes one thing I wouldn't do, which is see a lady who works out of a house in a neighborhood. A complaint is the single thing that will set LE after an independent.

Thank you for sharing your story. I’ll rethink the firmness of my position. But I still think we are all safer with screening than without it.

-- Modified on 7/23/2002 9:17:26 PM

I am not suggesting that we are safer with screening than without it.  I was just trying to illustrate by example not to casually dismiss how your information can be used against you.  If I had an SO or was not self-employed I would have had big problems.  I am sure there are many worse horror stories out there.

Also LE will respond to complaints made against providers working in apartment complexes.