My situation is a bit different, but...Yes, the way I feel about myself is what keeps me from writing emails or picking up the phone to contact a lady.
As stated in this thread, and all over the boards repeatedly, the ladies like courteous, kind, clean, generous men....and beautiful, sexy hot women. Well, I am not beautiful, sexy or hot, which could be overlooked if I were a gentleman...not so much it seems being a gentlewoman. (I have actually had ladies explain that they wouldn't see me as a client because I would be too gentle...WTF?!?)
I can see the "doubles" reviews and friends pages and know for an absolute fact the women any given lady has been or can be with is far better than I...at least where it seems to count.
Now, many ladies that claim to be "bi" or have other ladies they work with can always say that they don't see women, which may be true but also feeds my personal insecurities. It's kind of like when I was at a strip club with some friends one time, one of my buddies tried to get a lady to give me a lap dance, she assured him that she did not give women lap dances...less that 15 minutes later she was at the table right behind ours giving, of all things, a woman a lap dance. So, maybe the ladies don't see women as clients or maybe they just don't want to see me.
Now, it hasn't really helped me any that I have made friends with a number of ladies in this business, as they tend to inform me that I am not allowed to be a client....and that friends is not with benefits. As a matter of fact in more than a few cases it seems I am a lady's only platonic friend.
It always hurt when people would treat me like I was asexual...but when ladies that specifically state how sexual they are, how easily they are turned on, how they can find something arousing in anyone, etc. tells you that there is nothing sexual when you are in her company...that hurts a lot more.
Then there are the ladies at M&Gs that will flirt, hug, kiss, etc. me....and if I say anything about getting together sometime to actually continue that line of activity, they act like a deer caught in headlights, stutter and explain how they can't or won't or again there is nothing sexual when they are with me. So, any amount of feeling good I might have had from the flirting etc. is taken away and I realise that it was really just advertising, and not even to get me to be a customer but to get the others there to be customers...maybe they figure it will work in their favor if the guys think, "damn, if she can even kiss some 'thing' like Webbie she will be great with me."...I don't know but that's how I end up feeling.
The few abbreviated encounters I have had are nothing like the reviews for the ladies involved...and I never blame them...I just figure I am so disgusting they aren't even able to fake it.
I came to this world of the "hobby" with pretty low self-esteem....it is much, much lower now...
So, yes, I refrain from contacting ladies because of my physical condition....I can't have an appointment with a lady and know in my heart she would rather be with anyone but me.
and it's one I've been meaning to ask for a while.
Has any hobbyist wanted to meet a specific provider, but refrained from doing so because he thought that his physical condition might be a turn off to her? This can be anything from overweight to balding to a need for csmetic/reconstructive denistry, excessive perspiration, surgical scars, male stretch marks, etc...
In my case there are several providers, some of which look close to physical perfction if their pics are legit, i'm dying to meet, but cannot even consider doing so because of my less than imprsssive body type.
Anyone else, as the legal types say, "similarly situated"?
This thread keeps coming up.
The consistnt message from the providers is that as long as you are a clean, polite, gentleman, your physical condition will not be an issue. It sounds like they will go out of their way to accomodate overweight guys, and they know various positions that will work with any body type. Some even advertise that they will help handicapped guys.
Bottom line -- the attributes that are the most important to providers are cleanliness and respect.
that our society is so hung up on looks.
It's a pity, but I guess I have to give Vermontster some credit for being honest about his feelings.
I do have some pity on him and others who are so hung up on looks that it lets them color their judgement regarding an individual. The good news is that you can get over it.
Many years ago when I worked in construction, a new man joined my crew. To say that the man was hideous would be an understatement. He had been in a fire (Started during a house renovation, he tripped as he ran out and fell and knocked himself out. He woke up from a coma weeks later with third degree burns over his entire body.)
When I saw him, I can honestly say that I was majorly freaked out, but out of politeness I held my emotions in check and accepted the person to the crew. In a short time I came to realize that this man was one of the nicest and most sincere as well as truly entertaining (He was Irish, afterall.) individuals I have ever met. In time his appearance had no affect on me at all, even though I could detect it in others that came upon us.
The moral is simple: It's what's inside that counts, and to those who master that, a much better world awaits, whether in this hobby or in any other aspect of your life.
When you find someone like that, look at them in their eyes, you will find a real human being that has known incredible sorrow. When I was 17 I was in a car accident that left my face looking like a pound of hamburger.(the car rolled 16 times)My face eventually healed, but I could never forget the repulsed look on peoples' faces when they saw me at a grocery store. Mothers' draw their curious children closer to them. I have always been the sort that does not judge books by their cover, sometimes I get my feelings hurt but mostly I find terrific humans.
I don't know much about weight gain, or how a person gets there, so I can't comment on that.
Vermonster is a blind man, hope he enjoys his young handsome good looks while he still has them, because then where will he be...
Mrfisher, I think you forget that the hobby itself is predicated on looks.
I have made this point in several posts myself and will make it again. If ugly to average-looking men were able to get laid with as much ease as a "hottie" the hobby would not exist. Many providers have already remarked on our great personalities, so that's not the issue here. The issue is that women in civvie life will not get past our looks if they don't have to. Not to be hypocritical, men are like that too. Look at your own story as an example.
While I think it's great you appreciate the man's inner qualities, it is important to acknowledge that many of his social interactions will initially be defined by his looks, especially if he wants to be with women. Subsequently, your story does not really address the point since there was no possibility of any kind of sexual or romantic attraction, just work, and at most friendship.
You were able to overcome your initial reaction to his appearance because you had prolonged contact with him. You saw him on a regular basis so you HAD to interact with him. I'm sure there are many instances where we've all seen couples in which one partner is ridiculously hot, while the other is unattractive. I have found this to occur in instances where the two people see each other on a regular basis [workplace, community group, etc.,] and get to know each other. However, in more casual settings where contact can be avoided, the better looking one would never consider going near the unattractive one.
You say "It's what's inside that counts". Yes, in terms of being a good person, but it sounds hollow when one has to deal with indifference and rejection due to one's looks. In order to know what's "inside" us, a woman has to be willing to talk to us and that's a struggle if one's is not considered good looking. Unattractive men have to work several times as hard to get a woman's interest and even then it might not lead anywhere. It has nothing to do with self-esteem but a recognition of facts. That many of us keep trying anyway is a measure of self-esteem but it can be wearying. I feel I am a mature, intelligent individual, well-versed in many subjects, with a good sense of humor and awesome musical taste. When trying to be with a woman, none of those qualities means anything, if she won't get past my looks. I can tell myself that it's what's inside that counts when I have to go home and jerk off.
When providers talk about how personality is the main virtue of their clients, I think they are being sincere. But focusing on personality is also a result of business necessity. After all, it providers restricted their clientele to hotties, they wouldn't have as much business as they do.
I once posted a thread asking providers how many of their clients would they have found attractive if they had met them in civvie life. If I recall properly, one responded flippantly, but otherwise, no providers responded with a serious answer.
With one exception [she's my ATF now], I have declined to see providers who are taller than 5'5" because I am a short man and have been discriminated against by women on that basis. I am sure that taller providers will see me anyway, but I can't have a good time wondering if they feel repulsed by me even if they don't show it. And what would be the point of asking? Even if I'm wrong about particular providers I don't have the funds to keep finding out.
-- Modified on 7/14/2007 6:12:47 PM
The reason you didn't get a serious answer, maybe, is this: I am ashamed to say that yes, many of them I wouldn't have looked at twice in civvie life. I have learned quite alot since I started this. One in particular, real middle of the road looks, knocked my socks off with his prowess in the bedroom.
Life is such a learning process, wish I were better at the learning part.
well i'm tall 230, 49, never felt attractive my whole life, and certainly didn't get the vibe from a civie...one session a provider is on me cg and she says "you have a beautiful body"...i didn't even know what to say, i almost laughed, and whether she meant it or not, i ride a new wave of confidence, along with a new skillset, which unfortunately still can't be used on civies, but oh well, i felt like a king for a day..er hour.....
many of them, I would never give them the time of day, and now that I am in my civilian life, I still don't lol 
Just a joking
Seriously, it's all about the personality that really ends up being the turn on, and then you find yourself really looking forward to another session with him again. But again, I would never take it off the clock, nor invite them inside my private life. Something about never taking taking work home, has always stuck with me.
As for personality being the big turn on, here's what I said in my original post: "When providers talk about how personality is the main virtue of their clients, I think they are being sincere. But focusing on personality is also a result of business necessity. After all, it providers restricted their clientele to hotties, they wouldn't have as much business as they do."
-- Modified on 7/14/2007 7:41:12 PM
-- Modified on 7/14/2007 7:50:05 PM
If I may be so bold, the humorist is not asking whether or not a provider will see you if you are "ugly", or how she will feel about you if she does - he's asking US whether our own body image comes into play when we see a provider.
I'm an average looking guy late forties. When I was young, I was in great shape but now I have this gut and it definitely affects my self image. I probably would not choose a young "perfect" looking escort today, not because I hate myself or think I am not "good" enough, but because the sight of my belly against her perfect skin makes me laugh and I lose my mood. But also, although I like looking at a young hottie, these days I prefer the company of someone more seasoned, experienced, worldy, intelligent, etc. If she also happens to be beautiful, well what can I do? but that's not my main focus any more.
As for the fellow who posted below about being disgusted by another hobbyist, why don't you have a few vertebrae removed so you can stay at home and blow yourself? then your partner will always be gorgeous.
- Ever wondered why some reviews say "YMMV" ?
a) Hobbyists’' answer: She was not in the mood, I think she was on drugs,....etc
b) Providers' answer: I was on PMS, I was having a bad day, or "He was just gross!"
Reality: The last answer applies to 80% of cases!
2- Ever wondered why, a provider with a stellar 9-10 review from let's say "Vermonster" all of a sudden gets a 9-6 review from the same guy who made "Vermonster" feel sick?
a) She did not deliver as promised, No DFK, CBJ instead of BBBJ, No touching inside ...etc... Both reviews are legit according to her performance ... You know better why!
But our beloved Drama kings and queens, who usually don't even, read the reviews, do not agree and post a foot long thread bashing the reviewer and TER insisting that one of those reviews has to be fake!
The truth is:
1-Some of us are not appealing to ladies, (Isn’t that why we are here?)
2- Providers are not a Soda machine and have feelings, they try their best to put a smile on our face, if they don't give us a DFK it's because of that garlic bread we had for lunch, or our disgusting mustache!.... Sorry but we have to live with it,...
And yes, YMMV is for real weather we like it or not. That being said, I've had the "he was just gross" discussion with many a favorite lady and it is not related to being overweight, bald, pigeon toed or any other physical characteristic. It IS generally related to poor hygiene, overly aggressive behavior or just plain rudeness.
I'm far from a perfect physical specimen and I admit that, when I first started hobbying, I was always a bit apprehensive about how my (then) almost 400lb frame was going to be received by the ladies. What I have learned over time is that a good provider will treat you with respect if you treat her the same way-no matter what you look like. She will find a way to make you feel welcome and yes, sexy, even if she needs to move your big old belly out of the way to get to mr. happy. She will find a position that works and be patient with the fact that it sometimes takes old fat guys a while to "finish". She will be grateful for your business and will be happy to see you again should you choose to return. Providers are not in business to meet a GQ model. They are working to earn a living in a difficult and sometimes dangerous occupation and a gentleman with a good attitude and a donation envelope is there "dream date".
-- Modified on 7/14/2007 6:46:11 AM
I'm 5'8" and about 280 pounds. I've seen 5 different providers here in Las Vegas and none of them gave me less than what I considered stellar performance. only 1 of them gave a CBJ versus BBBJ, but that was her M.O. anyway.
I'm so....ashamed?? of my weight / appearance that I make sure to tell them about it and send them photos of myself first. And I'm not even THAT big I don't think. It's my lack of self esteem that probably got me started in this hobby to begin with. I never had a girlfriend growing up until I got married and though I love her, she is not the physically attractive type either. Providers are the only way I have been able to live the fantasy I'd had growing up...To be intimate with an "Attractive Girl". I must admit that I too am pretty much only attracted to what society has programmed us to believe is attractive, so I must give the providers I've seen a lot of credit for being so accomodating.
This is specifically why I tell them in advance what I look like. It gives them an out in case they are likewise preferring a "good looking client". I can't blame them for that because I'm the same way. I also do the same with providers looking for "...upscale, generous gentelmen". I tell them I'm a paycheck to paycheck type.
My reccommendation would be to do the same. Tell the provider about yourself and send her photos!! Wouldn't you rather find out before she walks in the door if she's turned off by your size , looks, or pocketbook??
By the way, I do not remember ever being turned down by any provider by giving them this information up-front. They've always said that cleanliness and attitude are paramount.
--Kreyzy
You sound like a sweetheart. I think it's nice that you tell them upfront but I have never heard of that myself nor would I base my decision on that.
The personality is sooo important IMHO.
Sara
After the many witty and humorous comments of yours that I have enjoyed, I cannot imagine that spending an hour or two with you would be anything less than delightful. To hell with physical attributes that are less than perfect. I love your humor, and that is what would undoubtedly make spending time with you such a delight :o )
Well, when i'm down to 200 pounds, you're on.
I expect it to be quite an experience myself. We'r both going to remember it fpr quite a while.
BTW, the humor thing has had frightfully little payoff in civie life with the fairer sex. What could be the problem?
TY very much for the kind thoughts.
duh, what kind of provider would use a silly name like 'plmokn'.
But, I'm inclined to think a provider would prefer a gentleman who carries a few(or a lot of)extra pounds, is folicly challenged and may be a bit 'greasey', who is courteous, respectful, witty and of course, generous, as opposed to a young, attractive and successful jerk who is rude, arrogant, obnoxious and disrestectful.
And just for the record, I am courteous, respectful, witty and generous and I look great. But, as always, YMMV
Who says i'm a jerk who is rude, arrogant, obnoxious and disrespectful? I just happen to be honest and now I'm categorized as an asshole? Trust me, deep down inside you all agree with me...no matter how you look or feel.
gee, I wasn't talking about anyone in particular. I was just saying, I would think a provider would prefer an older, overweight gentleman to a younger, arrogant dickhead.
-- Modified on 7/15/2007 7:46:22 AM
My situation is a bit different, but...Yes, the way I feel about myself is what keeps me from writing emails or picking up the phone to contact a lady.
As stated in this thread, and all over the boards repeatedly, the ladies like courteous, kind, clean, generous men....and beautiful, sexy hot women. Well, I am not beautiful, sexy or hot, which could be overlooked if I were a gentleman...not so much it seems being a gentlewoman. (I have actually had ladies explain that they wouldn't see me as a client because I would be too gentle...WTF?!?)
I can see the "doubles" reviews and friends pages and know for an absolute fact the women any given lady has been or can be with is far better than I...at least where it seems to count.
Now, many ladies that claim to be "bi" or have other ladies they work with can always say that they don't see women, which may be true but also feeds my personal insecurities. It's kind of like when I was at a strip club with some friends one time, one of my buddies tried to get a lady to give me a lap dance, she assured him that she did not give women lap dances...less that 15 minutes later she was at the table right behind ours giving, of all things, a woman a lap dance. So, maybe the ladies don't see women as clients or maybe they just don't want to see me.
Now, it hasn't really helped me any that I have made friends with a number of ladies in this business, as they tend to inform me that I am not allowed to be a client....and that friends is not with benefits. As a matter of fact in more than a few cases it seems I am a lady's only platonic friend.
It always hurt when people would treat me like I was asexual...but when ladies that specifically state how sexual they are, how easily they are turned on, how they can find something arousing in anyone, etc. tells you that there is nothing sexual when you are in her company...that hurts a lot more.
Then there are the ladies at M&Gs that will flirt, hug, kiss, etc. me....and if I say anything about getting together sometime to actually continue that line of activity, they act like a deer caught in headlights, stutter and explain how they can't or won't or again there is nothing sexual when they are with me. So, any amount of feeling good I might have had from the flirting etc. is taken away and I realise that it was really just advertising, and not even to get me to be a customer but to get the others there to be customers...maybe they figure it will work in their favor if the guys think, "damn, if she can even kiss some 'thing' like Webbie she will be great with me."...I don't know but that's how I end up feeling.
The few abbreviated encounters I have had are nothing like the reviews for the ladies involved...and I never blame them...I just figure I am so disgusting they aren't even able to fake it.
I came to this world of the "hobby" with pretty low self-esteem....it is much, much lower now...
So, yes, I refrain from contacting ladies because of my physical condition....I can't have an appointment with a lady and know in my heart she would rather be with anyone but me.
but I agree, that is not enough. I find myself, strangely in the same place as you. I've befriended a group of young ladies... all are beautiful, and all I have helped... and all consider me a friend. But when I ask them out, the conversation goes strangely silent... They know what I am asking, and they are unwilling to go down that path, at least - with me... and in my case, it is "age discrimination!" But to be honest, I have never felt "attractive" or handsome - rather average in looks.
I sincerely hope - that I have never slighted you or disrespeted you in any way. "The beautiful" are (in my opinion) often unaware of the feelings that they engender in others... everything from love to loathing and all with the flick of their hair, or the turn of the calf of their leg....
Lets face if, we all "make fun" of Paris Hilton, but who, in this hobby, would turn down an evening of hot sex with her - really... not many. The "making fun of" is really a defense mechanism, because we know that she would never give most of us any scrap from her table of beauty.
I wish that I could tell you, that one of my lovelies would "bed me" for the sex... and I wish that I could assure you that there will be one special lady in this hobby who would tell you and make you belive that you have great physical beauty, but alas, I can do neither.
And maybe that is our lot in life. But there is the recognition, that there is an inner beauty to you- which I know that all on this board see, recognize, love and cherish. Personally, sometimes I go on Chat, and if you are there, I will stay... but if not - I exit. Why? you are someone worth talking with.
Hope... I only offer that... for us both... and faith? faith in ourselves that we do have worth and value. PM me, if you ever want to talk.
What? You think you are turned down because of your looks??? The reason why the providers turn you down is because they are straight. They have no gay or bi tendencies, so they could not possibly service a woman like yourself. It's not you..... it's them!!!
but too many of them, have told me of past girlfriends, flings, women that currently "hook up" with, Hell a number of them have been with each other and will even tell me how good the other is.
So, maybe they are all lying to the simple end of what? hurting me? Leading me on somehow? Or maybe it is me...and not them.
Self confidence when it comes to dealing with the opposite sex has likely been an issue since the beginning. I can just imagine UG " the short cave man " feeling insecure before approaching WOW "the tall good hide tanning cave woman" for some much needed relaxation after the great Mammoth hunt.
Thank goodness they overcame that hurdle or we wouldn't be here.
Beauty and sex appeal are relative to the day and the fad of our times. What is attractive today may well be the repulsive of tomorrow.
One really has only so much control over their looks, hygene and manner being the two that matter most here. The rest is mostly genetic.
Why that blossoms into self conscious doubt is environmetal. We are taught that average isn't good enough.
Perhaps we could help prove to those that harbor this self doubt that average is the norm and we outnumber the beauties of the world by the millions by entering data about ourselves in the reviews. Nothing much more than an brief overall description of how average most of us are and what a wonderful time we had.
It might even change the perception from "am I attractive" to "I'm as good a date as that fellow and look at the fun he had"
I guess I should end up stating the obvious, be clean, be courtious, be generous and above all else, give your self a break and enjoy life as you are. Your among the normal majority of us average folks.
never wanted to be.
I am 6', 180 lbs.
Some would call me trim.
Many ladies have said I was handsome, good looking, a hunk.
I never thought so. All my life I have been introverted, shy. I never felt I was "attractive" enough to have the "hot" ladies interested in me.
This hobby has allowed me to blossum as a person and realize that there is more to a person than looks.
Whether you think you are not "perfect" or even tolerable, being a gentleman and being respectful of the ladies makes "studs" of us all.
I still don't consider myself anything beyond average, but I'm ok with that because the ladies I know like me for who I am, not what I am.
Just my opinion...
B
-- Modified on 7/14/2007 12:29:04 PM
and the reason is that I just do not feel that I could ever live up to the performance of that night.... it was memorable. at least to me.
But to your point! Would I rather be thinner, have more hair, be a better lover... yea... who would not!
when I started this hobby I was late 30's with no spare tire and the 20's providers gave full service. now I am over 40 with a spare tire and the 20's providers hurry the sessions. I now see more mature providers.