An established TER provider gave mine to one of her best friends, a guy who knows she's a provider, so he could FedEx a deposit refund to me for her. Now she could've sent it herself using her business name, but according to her, she chose to not provide the documentation because it was too much of a huge headache for her to do.
She says “she really did nothing wrong”. I say her actions were shady, reckless, and complete abuse of the trust I gave her when I provided my real info to her. In the process, she also exposed two guy's real info to each other and their association with a provider.and careless in not protecting your and his information.
Does anyone take business cards and exchange them at a meet-up? Or an orgy?
Deposit?
Real home info?
Since when does FedEx check the sender's ID? I've never been asked. Same with USPS Express.
Add the dude to your xmas card list so he never forgets.
On the bright side, you got your deposit back.
As to why one should never give out their real info, including addresses
And to answer the question, it's a big and resounding "hell no" from me. It's never acceptable,obviously. If you had trusted her before, you shouldnt now.
come up awhile back with someone else?
I remember reading it maybe over a year ago...??
When I read this OP I thought I was reading an old thread because I know I have read the exact same thing before, and old threads always get revived here. When I realized it was a new thread, I started to search for the previous one but can’t find it, (and I’m usually pretty good at finding those old threads).
In any case, yes this exact scenario was talked about on TER before.
It did come up a while back, but not with someone else. It was the same guy! See my link in a reply below.
-- Modified on 9/21/2020 2:55:47 PM
YOU are the source of your own problem. True, she should never have given it to anyone else but....
Or are you just rehashing an old problem.
No, same problem. Just very recently received more clearer info which is what was posted.
Unfortunately you don't have the excuse of being new to this, so if you are going to blame anyone, I think you need to start by looking in the mirror.
I also see you have chosen not to "name names" so you aren't providing any kind of public service announcement, pretty much all you are doing is WHINING about it. If you really wanted to do some good around here, you'd name her, but of course since she has all your blackmail information, you can't even do that. Game, set and match to HER.
I guess some people are just slow learners.
I do regret trusting a provider, whose been in/out of the business for at least 20 years, with my info. That's on me. But I don't blame myself for her reckless actions which I had no control over considering I stressed that I wanted the most discreet way possible to return the deposit cash refund to me.
I haven't “named names” yet because I wanted unbiased comments to be provided. I have publicly made comments on 2 other sites naming her doing this which she's seen.
I'm sure she's seen this by now, so she does have an opportunity to defend her actions.
And lesson learned about providing real info and deposits. Two things which I won't be doing again.
Nick and GaG. How did she have your address in the first place in order to give it to anyone? Anytime I have a provider tell me she needs my address, I draw a line through her name and contact the next one on the list. I don't want to see ANYONE bad enough to give out my personal info. I have a dedicated email address for P4P, a burner phone number, and 2 provider references to give them. If that's not enough, have a nice day.
Well technically, whenever you provide your real full name and city/state from your ID, she'll have your address because her assistant performs an extensive background report on you which was not openly mentioned in 2016. She's more transparent now in her FAQs about both of those things. I was new back then, nervous about giving it, and would've never provided it if I knew that now.
"provide your real full name and city/state from your ID"
Yeah this. Don't do this if you have something to lose. If you have to, use p411. In this day and age when you provide your real name, all your info will be available for provider to check. Do you know her real name? Exactly. She's got a leg up on you already.
name only. No one can track me down from the limited info I described. Like I said, if that's not enough, I move on. First name and burner cell phone, that's all any provider or agency gets out of me. The dedicated email is only used if that is the only way to make first contact.
Are you saying that you have known her since 2016 and you are STILL sending her deposits to book appointments???
I can "almost" understand sending a deposit to "prove yourself" as a newbie, "almost" being the operative word. Personally I would NEVER do so, but I digress. Why in the fuck is she still demanding and you still complying with her demands to send her a deposit in order to book an appointment. This is just as much on her as it is on you. If you have been seeing her for four years, AND you call her your ATF, the two of you should have developed enough trust by now that deposits should be way in the past, UNLESS of course there is something you are leaving out here.
The deposits were for 6hr and 8hr extended dates only which seemed fair.
If I've known and seen a girl for three or four years and even for a long visit she is asking for a deposit I am thinking something is wrong. Does she think YOU are that unreliable or is SHE just that . . . I'm not even sure what adjective to use.
Now, if she lives elsewhere and I'm just really interested in her being here I can see buying the plane ticket but some additional deposit probably not (as in this case I suspect I am inviting her to my house and expecting her to stay so a hotel is not needed).
that you keep adding details that you already knew to try to justify your stupidity that were intentionally left out of your OP. This is your third go-around on this topic. Why didn't you ever mention these details before? You're starting to make yourself look like a troll. If you're the timewaster with her that you are with us, no wonder she wants to see you only with a deposit. If you want help from the board, how about giving all of the details up front so we can give you our BEST answers? Is there anything else relevant that you have not disclosed yet?
I have to agree with both Court and CDL here. You obviously haven't been telling us the full story, you keep giving it to us piecemeal as we call bullshit on the parts you have given us.
Is she returning your deposits because she no longer wants to see you? I can't wait to hear HER side of the story. Something tells me she has a VERY different story to tell.
I'm not piecemealing anything. I provided clarification to people's questions which appears to be misinterpreted.
There's some miscommunication concerning my response to your deposit question. I was responding WHY I would ever pay a deposit which is what I thought you were asking.
She required a deposit for extended dates, which I'm sure most other providers do, so I always paid it since she's blocking out that much time for me. Under those circumstances, paying one shouldn't matter if you're a new client or a regular. Otherwise, I don't pay deposits for shorter dates.
It was only ONE deposit.
We aren't mind readers, if you meant ONE "deposit" you shouldn't have not only used the plural form of the word, you also should not have said "6 hr AND 8 hr dates" (CAPS added for emphasis)
We can't comment on what you meant if what you meant is NOT what you actually said.
and yes, you are piecemealing your story. Everytime someone calls you out on your inconsistencies you add just a little bit more to the story.
As for her "crime" of having someone else send the deposit back to you, my personal feelings about deposits aside. I don't see a big issue of having someone else send it, especially if she just asked her friend to "please send this package to this address" without being specific about who you are and what was in the package. If one of my hooker buddies were to ask me to drop off a package for them at FedEx, it wouldn't even occur to me to press her about what I was sending, unless I thought she was using me as a drug mule. lol
BTW I do understand why she would ask and you would agree to send a deposit for an extended date. It's about the only time I believe that deposits are warranted. I still would NEVER send one personally, but I concede that a deposit can be appropriate if she is coming to your town and blocking out that much time for you.
As for her "crime" of having someone else send the deposit back to you, my personal feelings about deposits aside. I don't see a big issue of having someone else send it, especially if she just asked her friend to "please send this package to this address" without being specific about who you are and what was in the package. If one of my hooker buddies were to ask me to drop off a package for them at FedEx, it wouldn't even occur to me to press her about what I was sending, unless I thought she was using me as a drug mule. lol
My friend did not know who/what it was really for at that time, but I did recently disclose all of the nitty-gritty details to him.
On a personal note, GaGambler, you do realize you're outing yourself for being a nice guy who would do a favor for a "hooker buddy", yes?
My god, you're really ruining your own rep now lmao!!!
That said, at least if you happen to "disappear" in the near future, your BFF will have the name of the person the cops need to talk to first. lol
and NO, I am not a "nice guy" who would do a favor for a hooker buddy, I am still an ASSHOLE, but an asshole who wouldn't mind doing a favor for a hooker buddy. lol If that makes me a "nice guy" please don't tell anyone
You bring up an interesting point.
He's been posting about this for months now, on multiple message boards. Although he didn't name me in this thread, he has called me out on other sites.
In response to this, many ladies would have already publicly outed him on Twitter, Switter and any other platform.
OP is clearly not overly concerned about that happening.
Why? Because he knows me and is therefore smugly certain I would never do that.
So he feels safe giving dribs and drabs of information which, on the surface, make it sound as though I had indeed done something nefarious.
What I actually did was return a deposit in the manner demanded to someone who has stalked myself and my friends as well as threatened both me and my assistant. Oh what a horribly indiscreet, BSC provider I am.
(and I still say you're a nice guy!)
Not about being indiscreet, or about being BSC, or even about the fact that most other hookers would have blasted him all over social media.
You KNOW what you lied about,
I am NOT a "nice guy" even if I do nice things every once in a while. lol
You are a crude, foul-mouthed, man-whoring asshole..... who is generally fair-minded and has been ever-so-slightly-yet-very-publicly NICE to me.
Better? 
As far as I'm concerned, this is an unforgivable breach of trust. This lady should be named so that others can be warned not to provide their info to her. Not only does she damage you, but she also damages every other lady out there who demands real info for their safety because incidents like this make it less likely guys will be willing to provide it.
I use P411 under an alias and if that's not enough for a lady, I move on. I have noticed on Twitter a trend towards ladies stating that P411 is advertising site not a verification site and that they still insist that guys fill out their website for or provide additional screening to their liking. I'm not a fan of this trend and have no intention of giving out my real info to ANY escort.
Given what you've said this wasn't cool. The "how" you got your deposit back should have been agreed upon by both parties. I have real full names before I meet with a new gentleman. I would have never gotten a third party involved unless you okayed it.
Steph XO
-- Modified on 9/21/2020 11:17:47 AM
No communication or agreement about using 3rd party. 1st email was “I tried on Sunday, but FedEx gave me a hard time. I should get it done tomorrow.” Now I know what the “hard time" was. 2nd email 3 days later was “I had someone else send it for me. Here's the tracking number.” Now I know who the “someone else” was.
And you already named her then, and now you’re holding back?
Seems he likes to keep reliving the experience and never learns from it. Or perhaps it is all just BS.
You have one from 9 months ago and I give another link from about 3 months ago. Odd.
Time for him to move past this for sure.
Steph XO
Maybe it did happen once every three months and he's hoping for a different outcome?
Time for him to move past this for sure.
Steph XO
and is exploding on twitter about this.
This guy is unreal, he won't let this go.
You're a real funny fuck. Another chicken shit simp using an alias. Seems like you can't let it go which is why YOU'RE resurrecting this thread, not me. Do I have a stalker now?
You failed to mention that Deb took it to Twitter 4 days beforehand, posting about her bs claims of harassing and stalking. But she failed to mention her giving out my real info. Guess she needed to paint herself in a good light. It amazes me that Deb can do no wrong. Seems like she can't let it go.
I was going to let it go until her simps kept up their harassing. I wasn’t going to sit back and let these idiots, who don't have a fucking clue of what they're talking about, bash me.
In addition, someone has been giving out my p411 client ID, thus allowing providers unauthorized access to my profile. Hmmm, who has admitted to giving out my info?
For not “letting it go” and stalking.
I can’t link your twitter here but you haven’t let up on this saga since it happened, 9+ months ago.
Give it a rest, lunatic.
But please let's hope he doesn't get banned from TER, I know Deb might disagree, but I enjoy laughing at this dweeb.
Correct me if I'm wrong, but I don't think you can banned from p411 for complaining on Twitter about a situation where the provider admitted her wrongdoing.
Tagging this provider, when even after (as you mentioned) she admitted her part. This happened 9 MONTHS AGO!
And yes, p411 has banned members for a lot less. So eastside70 should dig his heals in and let’s see if p411 lets him stick around.
Well, I stand corrected if it's enough grounds to ban. Thanks for clarification.
First mention was Jan 2020. When this particular thread came out, it was already 9 months old. And this thread is now 3 months old. He should have let it go a looong time ago!
But I am willing to bet that if Gina was still running things he'd be toast by now.
I have never met Deb and I will NEVER send any provider a deposit, but I think Eastside himself has proved Deb's claims of him being a stalker, AND I have no qualms about her having someone else, someone NOT involved in the hobby who couldn't care less about Eastside personal info, sending the refund for her. Furthermore I think EVERY woman who attracts a stalker needs to tell "someone" who he is, just in case they get found stuffed in a trunk someday. Stalkers are serious business and a hookers worst nightmare.
And they're real (well, probably not) and they're spectacular.
A second that observation. A premium rack.
Can we put this damn thing to rest?
to gain from this from taking it to Twitter? Don’t you think enough time has passed? Not a good look, but if you’re intentionally harassing her, you should stop now.
As I stated in another reply, I just very recently received greater clarification concerning those 2 items which I posted about. The January post WASN'T a public one.
I might be incorrect since I don't post much, but isn't publicly mentioning that a post from a private area even exists, let alone any specifics about it, a violation of the site rules.
We’ll see what they think.
Personally I don’t think I have violated the rules because all I did was pointed out that a post existed, AFTER you made it public. I gave no specifics of the thread and even though I posted a link, only people with access to that private board can read it.
the sender of the PM posted the contents of his PM to me on the board in order to get a broader feedback from the membership. After that, I was free to discuss it. No harm, no foul. If he posted my reply, that would be a violation IF I reported it, which I probably wouldn't have.
-- Modified on 9/24/2020 6:09:10 AM
If the date went through would the guy be in the room? wtf Why would she have a 3rd party involved. Bad business. She sounds, like a poor provider. Lack of professional courtesy. I had to refund a deposit & I did it on my own because I run my own business. 100% independent over here, and I do not share personal information with anyone. No respect.
Regardless of the reason, she had NO business giving his personal info to a third party. I have no doubt most of he ladies will disagree and the buttsucker men will say it was ok.
you are scaring her in some way and she is trying to hint to you that someone else knows you exist.
Are you doing anything that is making her feel uncomfortable, like getting terretorial or picking up stalker habits/giving her stalker vibes?
Why is she mailing you your deposit back?
I want the back story on this one, something isn't adding up.
-- Modified on 9/22/2020 4:21:05 PM
Yes, he was.
Yep, definitely being stalker-ish.
Because that was the method he demanded.
The ladies just know. I could literally feel him getting turned on while reading the OP. Yuck.
Yes, he was.
Yep, definitely being stalker-ish.
Because that was the method he demanded.
So let's do this, shall we?
(get your popcorn ready, everyone)
He knows I cannot prove it but he was cyberstalking me. He also did several other things which crossed my personal boundaries and I even warned him twice. I CAN prove some of those things.
After he yet again sent me a text message which I found inappropriate and alarming, I canceled our upcoming dates.
I was visiting his city at the time and I was so rattled by his text that I left town early and my assistant emailed him to cancel only AFTER I was safely on the road.
We told him I'd return his deposit for the future date but he argued and demanded I also refund his airfare since he had decided to fly to visit me in one of my upcoming destinations. He went back and forth with both myself and my assistant about this but I flatly refuse to compensate him for that.
He'd paid the deposit via gift card but refused to accept the refund that way. Alternatives were offered and the only method he would accept was cash via FedEx.
I used to be able to send via FedEx with my business name on the return info but they've changed their requirements for that since I last shipped that way. I did not (and still do not) have what they require.
I would have had to show my ID and my real name & home address would then have been on the return info. At that point, I didn't know if he'd already found that information on his own but in case he hadn't, I wasn't about to hand it over to someone who'd truly frightened me.
I was trying to decide what to do, how to send it anonymously, when he wrote and informed me I was past his deadline.
I panicked. I knew he'd been all over my personal social media and I was afraid of what he might do.
So I asked my best friend to help. I sent him the money via PayPal, created (and paid for) a shipping label online through my FedEx account. My friend took the cash and followed my instructions for packing it up, then took it to his nearest FedEx Office store. I'd already called that location to be sure they could print out the label for him, to which they said yes, and they did so. I did NOT give OP's name to my BFF; it wasn't necessary.
Now, there was a slight hiccup at this point because my BFF mistakenly thought I wanted it sent overnight rather than via Ground as OP had specified. So the FedEx clerk cancelled the original shipping label, printed a new one and my friend paid for it himself.
To sum up: I never "gave" OP's info to my BFF. Could my BFF have looked at it? Yes, of course but he had no reason to do so. He has no interest. I gave him an excuse (cover story) as to what/who it was for so he didn't know OP was a client.
Also, it was only OP's name on the shipping label, not his home address, as he'd instructed it be sent to a Walgreens FedEx Pickup location.
And.... OP doesn't have an uncommon name so even IF my BFF wanted to look him up?? OP could be one of many people by the same name in his state alone.
Some additional things I'd like to mention: a few weeks AFTER these events, OP sent me a new date request. I ignored it and he asked again shortly thereafter. He was quite argumentative when I refused. So I had to block him.
I've had to block him on multiple sites, including Ignoring him here. I've also blocked his various, multiple, social media identities. It's interesting to note that he posted this shortly after I blocked another of those on Twitter.
OP looked up my BFF's info and wasn't shy about telling me the details he'd found.
Several months ago, he sent a legal-babble filled email to me and my assistant, demanding we delete all his personal information, emails, etc.
OP has also posted about this on multiple websites, replying to reviews and positive comments about me by saying merely that I shared his personal information.
Apparently it's just killing him that other people are still seeing me when he cannot.
His information was never truly compromised and honestly..... at this point, I wish I would have just kept the damn deposit and blocked him completely, then blacklisted him to hell and gone for his cyberstalking and boundary-crossing behaviors.
-- Modified on 9/23/2020 7:35:00 AM
In the interests of full disclosure I need to preface this with stating that I had attempted to book with Debra Hollander a few years back when she was visiting my city.
I liked the reviews, found her ads and pictures appealing, but we ran into a conflict when she insisted I give her my real contact info. I will never do this, nor will I send a deposit. I understand about her need to protect herself, and I have no qualms with her having that attitude, but I need to protect myself as well.
I have nothing to hide, my friends and family know what I do, but it's a matter of principle.
That's my rules for this lifestyle, not hers, so we cordially agreed that this was not going to work and we went our separate ways,
Debra, you fucked up in two major ways.
You should have insisted he take repayment in like manner, AKA, the way he sent you the deposit. Anything else should be a red flag for you that whoever this clown is, he is seeking personal information. He says that is not good enough, no refund for him.
Whether or not it was your intent, you comprised a real world friend. Come on woman! How many years have you been doing this? How well do you know your friend? How well do you understand men?
You don't do that because you put your friend in a position where he thought he was doing something to help you by expediting your deposit return , which he knew nothing about, but was trying to make things better for you as he saw it.
Been there, done that, and as I said I have nothing to hide, but I sure didn't appreciate it.
You were worried about your personal info getting leaked... but were seemingly OK with entrusting third parties with other people's personal info that is supposed to be confidential ? And it's apparently OK because he does not have a common name? What if he had a real uncommon name? There are classes out there that teach about pii practices, I think every provider should take some.
If what you say is true about him stalking you, that sucks and I do sympathize. But it does not excuse your sloppy handling of personal info.
Yet another reason as to never give a provider your real info. Double standards between you caring about your info and you caring about his info are quite obvious here.
I guess I am old fashioned, but it blows my mind this is being tried in the court of public TER opinion. Somethings just are not for public discussion with folks who do not know all the facts. IMHO this is a private matter.
I get the concern regarding sharing private information with a provider one does not know, and I normally do not do it.
In Deb's case I did my homework, shared the information, and have never been given a reason to regret doing so. I had a good vibe and it paid off, many times I might add. It is a personal choice for sure, and one must weigh the risks.
You found my personal Twitter. It was discussed during a date. How can I look at your personal Twitter when you deleted it 1yr ago because another client found it (not 1st client to do so) and spooked you with one of his comments? Your personal Twitter NEVER revealed any of your real info.
I haven't been on my personal Twitter which you already know, so I wouldn’t know if you blocked me the other day. Funny that you immediately blocked my SW Twitter, but waited so long for my personal. Seems like stalking to me.
I had a moment of unclarity and sent a few texts (not vulgar, degrading, or the like) after I had to cancel one of our dates due to my 15lb dog being viciously attacked by 2 pit bulls which almost killed her. You voiced your concerns and I apologized. We had a great date a few weeks later.
I sent playful text 2 days before our next date asking you not to wear any panties and have some of your favorite toys available (you forget to charge them), both things occurred on several past dates so I didn't think it was an issue. As a 3yr regular client of yours, I never expected the reaction I received or else I wouldn't have sent it. I apologized.
I used cash to pay for $550 Amazon GCs as instructed. It's only fair to provide my refund in a method (cash) which didn't dictate my usage. I had no use for $550 in Amazon GCs let alone explain it. I had a $1k emergency sewer bill which cash would've helped. You didn't care.
I wanted most discreet way possible. You WANTED to use your friend’s personal PayPal or Giftrocket accounts which would be linked to my personal bank account to get cash. Not very discreet. Plus, I never even used either one before. You complained a week before that you had issues with both so why use them. You suggested using FedEx which, according to you, you've done before.
I politely asked 72 hrs after I sent the address. Considering your posted deadline for cancellation fee is 72 hrs, I didn't see an issue. Your email said nothing of issues at FedEx other than they gave you hard time. You said you should get it done tomorrow like it was no big deal. No panicky tone. You NEVER communicated about the true issues. I never asked again. Your next email 3 days later said someone sent it for you. Surprise.
How would I know your real info? Frightened of me? Really? I always respected you. Come on.
You gave your BFF your FedEx account info which put my real info in his possession, along with printed label, because he could have obtained it that way too. You can't prove that FedEx printed the label; that he didn't do it himself there; and/or that he didn't look at the label, write it down, take a pic, etc.
It's hard to believe he didn't know what was going on when you tell him to put $565 in an envelope, place it inside of his magazine, and use his name to FedEx it for you to a guy in another state considering he knows you're an escort.
I wasn't going to send it to my home address. Good thing I didn't or else he'd have that info too. You were SEVERELY pressuring me to send it to my work or trusted friend. I DEFINITELY wasn't giving more real info and I ABSOLUTELY wasn't giving a friend’s real info. When I didn't provide you either, you threatened to force me to use Giftrocket, so I scrambled and found the Walgreens way.
You're incorrect about my last name. It's NOT common. A search of my name and city/state on label shows me as top 3 results. So yes, he could've easily found me with info in his possession.
I only sent 1 p411 date request. I knew you wouldn't accept it. I thought I would get truthful answers from you on that site since your assistant was reading every email. We've done this before. I wasn't argumentative when you refused. Like I said, I already knew it was a no. You blocked me because you didn't want to tell me who the guy was when I asked for the 3rd time.
I did quick search to see if the guy on the label was real or not before I FREAKED out about my info being given out. I think anyone in my position would do the same. But please do tell about all of the details I supposedly found out about your BFF.
On another review site, you said you kept all of your clients info on your SafeOffice database until they request you to delete it. So that's what I did which, of course, you refused to do.
Making that statement on other sites FINALLY got you to clarify the info stated in my OP because you refused to do so otherwise up to that point. And your post here still says something different about the FedEx issue than what you previously told me.
From my perspective, my real info was COMPROMISED the moment you involved your BFF. You DON'T know what happened after it was in his possession. You DON'T have the right to tell me who to trust with MY info. Your lack of communication and shadiness concerning the FedEx issue was the culprit here.
The bottom line is you’re bringing up an old accusation. Write all the excuses and explanations and denials you want, and you still come out of this situation as the creepy stalker with anger issues.
I have since shared the real details of this situation with my BFF. He is OK with it.
That’s all I have to say about that.
May I ask a question then?
Is there any "Lessons learned" from this?
I now have it on my website that any deposits will be returned only in the way they are received. I will no longer make any exceptions to that, no matter how frightened I am, or how nice I am trying to be.
way to make sure this doesn't happen again with someone else. Who knows, it might even happen with this guy AGAIN . . . . not!!!
Glad something constructive came out of this experience.
Great post. And thanks to Debra for the step-by-step illustration of why a client should never give real world info. to a provider. If a provider "demands" it, walk away whether you perceive her as the once in a life time opportunity or just someone like Debra. It isn't worth it.
Eastsider always wants to be right, huh? Such a whiner, like on the old SNL.
Maybe the always right syndrome leads to his propensity for scoring his reviews as almost all 9's.
LOL.
You both make this way too complicated. Your explanations seem a little flaky, internally inconsistent, and too complicated. Of course the lady is going to say that the guy displayed stalker behaviors and attempt to engender sympathy. Who knows. Seems like a loop of retaliation and all that both parties have done here is made it clear that they should both be avoided.
-- Modified on 9/23/2020 10:30:24 AM
Yes seems way too complicated! Sounds like both had a hand in how cards were dealt.
Debra if this guy was showing signs of stalkerish behavior or over stepping boundaries which is absolutely not ok under any circumstances especially if straight out gave warnings (again only you & OP know)... I totally understand your need for safety & completely sympathize! Cancelling with him was the right call but should of never brought a third party (especially another guy into it especially if personal info was potentially compromised)...
Having dealt with a couple bad apples recently myself on the provider end of the spectrum (not knowing BF's aka pimps/bookers/security we're in our business) is very creepy unsettling. Again knowing your need for safety & risks you ladies take I understand.. But the end result on your end doesn't look good just like OP's.
This is a perfect example why most clients are leary giving out much personal info, deposits etc. Not saying your true intentions were to compromise anyone's info but way things were handled make a lot of others leary...
This whole gift card deposit situation mess also deserves its own topic in my honest opinion so I digress...
Op if were being a creep that's your own screw up.. If there's solid proof & she gave you warnings she has every right to blacklist you if she chooses to do so. ... But doesn't give the right IF your info was compromised.
Op if were being a creep that's your own screw up.. If there's solid proof & she gave you warnings she has every right to blacklist you if she chooses to do so. ... But doesn't give the right IF your info was compromised.
I visited Debra a while back when I was driving cross country and transiting through Chicago. I also had booked her a few weeks ago for her Minnesota tour that was unfortunately cancelled due to her dental medical emergency. I can attest to her professionalism at all stages of our interactions.
If she passed out personal info. hard to think she wouldn't do it again if she determined it was "justified." I would (and do) stay away from anyone who is looking for real world info. It simply isn't worth the risk.
This is exactly how I look at it.
Yes, OP's information COULD have been seen by someone else but my BFF has zero interest and did not look at it.
This will never happen again because, as I stated above, I won't cave to anyone else who wants his refund returned that way.
If OP had been even halfway reasonable in accepting the deposit-refund, this would not have happened.
I will now ONLY return payments via the way they are sent. Much easier, and more private, for everyone.
I have nothing further to say on this topic.
of cyberstalking. She has NEVER EVER accused me of such in all of our past correspondence which ended a couple of weeks ago.
If I was allegedly cyberstalking her around the time of the cancelled date, why did she see me for a date a week earlier? Did she suddenly have an epiphany within a weeks time that I was doing this to her personal Twitter which she deleted 2 months PRIOR to the cancelled date and which she made 1st contact to me on? How can one cyberstalk something that doesn't exist? Something to think about.
This accusation along with the “frightened of him” verbiage are elaborate fabrications to gain sympathy and be used as a smokescreen to cover up the fact that she did provide my info to her BFF as I stated in my OP.
And since her BFF paid FedEx with a credit card, which is printed as such on the shipping label, isn't it very possible that a printed receipt with my info on it was provided to him?
So before I'm vilified and labeled me as a cyberstalker, one might want to verify that the source it's coming from is truly reliable.
Anyway, I digress. All comments were appreciated. It's been quite the learning experience.
Debra is allowed 1 final rebuttal (she appears to have waived that right) and you are allowed 24 hours to provide any supporting exhibits, expert testimony, and/or character witnesses before the TER jury begins deliberations. A verdict will be reached shortly thereafter.
It won’t take long to deliberate. The OP loses in a landslide. Not much he could say to change my mind.
I mean come one here. Your vilification email lacks addressing why you wouldn't accept the more simple first solution that she proposed.
If you post anything else on this subject, here or anywhere else you will need to include your full name and physical mailing address so that we can send you a large bottle of MIDOL.
As far I see the picture is clear
He is blaming her
She is blaming him
The irrelevant vouches start piling on. "I've known person X all my life. He/she was a great father/mother and took care of his/her pet fish. He/she would never do that! I swear!"
Fuck all that. Let's discuss the actual question.
Regardless of what the monger did, sharing his information with a third party is irresponsible, dangerous and will cause many others to not see the provider in question. Don't do this.
Alternately: Provider attempted to accommodate a request for returning funds in a manner differently than how it was rendered. Thus proving no good deed goes unpunished.
.
Also proving once again that provider engagement on TER is counter-productive.
Many of the ladies have gotten to see the OP's true colors, I suspect he is on many more DNS lists today than he was just a few days ago, AND it's a reminder to the guys that your personal information is not guarded as zealously as many of you expect it is even among the best and most reputable of providers, and that if your life can be ruined if if were to be made public that you patronize prostitutes, you might want to rethink caving into provider demands that you provide them with blackmail information against you.
So let me ask you again, just WHY is this counter productive?
Anybody who has looked at this particular provider's website knows she has an assistant. If they still think only the provider has the client info, they need to improve their reading comprehension.
It's a well known fact that a LOT of people have the reading comprehension of a five year old, a five year old houseplant that is.
So once again I will ask you, Just what was so counterproductive about this thread? From everyone's but the OP's POV that is.
Eastside70, when will you let this go? It's been 10 months since this happened.
I did not read your emails or step in until Debra asked me too. She and I offered
you countless anonymous ways to return your deposit. It is not her fault that
you had an unexpected expense and needed cash. You refused all efforts.
Personally, if it was me, I would have offered one and only one way for you to
get your deposit back. If that was not good enough, too bad, so sad.
You have a way of twisting the truth to fit your side of the story. Debra talked to
you a number of times of overstepping boundaries and getting too attached.
She only saw you for as long as she did because of my bad advice. I told her,
"oh, he's probably harmless and just trying to show how much he appreciates you".
Debra would call me and talk to me about how uncomfortable she was becoming.
She'd discover what she thought were your fake Twitter accounts stalking her RL
social media. Were they REALLY you? I don't know. But she thought they were you.
Whether its true or not is a mute point. HER feelings are what mattered at that point.
It was little things really but all the little things became too much and at a point,
she was truly frightened. So much so, that she snuck out of YOUR town in stealth
mode. So much so, that she, to this day, 10 months later, will not visit certain cities
or stay in certain hotels.
So, here you are, 10 months later. Still being a cyber-bully. Following her hobby
life. Posting under her reviews. Dragging her and her reputation through the
mud. Making snide comments about her MS TER status. Do you really think
TER doesn't know her opinions of reviews? Guess what? They know and they
don't care.
Debra is doing just fine without you, Eastside70. You have told your side of the
story. She has told her side. She's not hidden from this as some would. She's
been forthright, accepted responsibility. It's time you do the same. YOU did not
handle this right. Had you just accepted the refund in one of the many ways we
had offered, we would not be here now. It makes me wonder, what is your
real purpose in doing this?
In the end, you do not get to judge her and decide what she was feeling.
That is HER truth. She was frightened of you. You have proven why since
you are still holding on to this all these months later and constant rehashing
on the boards.
Let it go. Let HER go.
Jean, Debra's assistant
eastside70 is now given the opportunity to cross-examine the witness testimony and present closing arguments.
TER Sentencing Guidelines while not available to the public provide considerable flexibility. Previous decisions may be made available on a case by case basis. The outcome of the most recent case, Young Twitter Hotties v. MasterZen was recently published. That hearing was also open to the public.
Very funny! LOL
I won't be cross-examined by anyone. Eastside70 can think what he wants to. I don't care.
Debra told her side as she saw it. Eastside70 told his side as he saw it. I told my side as I
saw it. Personally, I believe he is a needy, pathetic psycho nut job. But, hey, I could be wrong!
Did Debra handle it perfectly? Probably not. Did Eastside70 handle it perfectly? Definately not. Did I handle it perfectly? No. I will NEVER make the mistake of discounting Debra's
feelings and concerns ever again. That was a big mistake and I apologize to Debra for that.
We all have our own beliefs on providing RL info during screening. Just as in everything else, you have to weigh the pros and cons and decide accordingly. I highly doubt that anything said here by any parties involved will change the opinions of the readers.
So, I think it's time to let it go. Yes?
I do recall "BSC Twitter OTHFBs" vs "henpecked Z" but there was hardly a "ruling" on that case. it was more of a case of public flogging of a BSU who "dared" to act like he had an intact nut sack, even if it was only for a moment. He quickly realized the error of his ways and came back to grovel for forgiveness from the OTHFBC that he had offended so deeply, but to no avail. They made an example of what happens to anyone who dares have an independent thought.
As for this case, I think the results are pretty much already in and while Debra was not exactly vindicated (yeah she fucked up too) the OP has most likely ruined his reputation beyond repair. I can't imagine that any of the guys here respect him nor will any of the girls reading this thread ever want to have anything to do with him. So while there really weren't any "winners" (Except for those of us who enjoy a good train wreck) there was most definitely a LOSER and that was the OP.
I don't need no cross examination. I am siding wit Debra on this.
As few others have stated. Who knows what the truth is to the situation? Both have mentioned their cases & just from life experience in this I'm guessing the truth is somewhere in the middle??
Op messed up in the 1st place with the whole complicated gift card deposit deal.. This is why so many of us hesitate wanting to give out much personal info because information can be preached so easily... Well also because a lot of us learn at some point the hard way at one point or another unfortunately.
If OP is truly a creep that's something he has to deal with & the conscquences seriously!! But Debra messed up just as much as a professional provider bringing in a 3rd party w/o consent & she will unfortunately feel the effects of this just as much.
I don't get it. Someone explain it to me. Is it because of bunch of he saids or she saids?
There are two sides going at each other without concrete evidence. The only thing the two sides did agree on was, that, in fact, the customer's privacy was breached.
The circumstances around the privacy breach are largely irrelevant, especially they can't prove it.
Things like hippocraric oath are a big deal. So are privacy info you share with working girls. All I get from this topic is a great reminder of why personal info should never be shared.
As far as Debra's assistant, to be able to post off alias you need either to write reviews or pay for account and then write off an alias. I'm a little bit skeptical there. But I won't make any conclusions.
I've actually been outed before, ok more than once, but the last time I was outed, and I don't mean an innocent or careless handling of my personal information, but a full fledged (failed) attempt to ruin my fucking life by a BSC hooker right here on TER as many people here will remember.
If the OP was ONLY upset about the mishandling of his personal info he would have a LOT of people in his corner, but that is hardly the case here, he nullifies his point here by his stalking of the provider in question. TEN FUCKING MONTHS he has been hounding her on the boards. When I was outed I made ONE OP on the subject, it was a topic of conversation for a few weeks, I made my point and I moved on. The OP has no intention of moving on because this isn't about his personal info, his deposit, or anything else of the kind. The OP is a STALKER and he gets off on staying involved with her life and THAT is why almost everyone, (but you it seems) has lost any respect they might have once had for the OP.
And yes, it is possible to call out the provider for her culpability in this matter while still calling a stalker a stalker. It doesn't have to be either/or. As I said in my earlier post, there are no "winners" here, only varying degrees of losers with the OP being "The Biggest Loser"
OK, I see your point.
Well, if I was outed, I probably wouldn't let it go for years. Idk. Hard for me to say. Likely it would impact my job, and I could be salty for years losing a high paying job over a hooker. So maybe that's why I'm not losing too much respect for him.
By the way, GaG, if you have been outed multiple times, did you stop giving hookers your info?
I know you don't have much to lose, but like you say, isn't there a lesson to learn here my dude?
and the first time I was outed it was NOT by a hooker, it was by a fellow monger who didn't like what I had to say on the discussion boards. Truth be told I have NEVER been outed by a hooker that I have had a session with.
As for providing personal info to hookers, I NEVER jump through hoops in order to see a hooker, I don't mind so much her having useless "blackmail information" that she "thinks" she can use against me someday, I simply have a mantra that I live by where it comes to seeing providers.
"I will beg for pussy, I will pay for pussy, but I will NEVER beg to pay for pussy"
I have said this so many times here that many TER members think I invented the saying while the truth is I "borrowed" it from my former co-moderator on this very board who most likely borrowed it from somebody else
Two other things, the OP was not damaged in any way due to the actions of Debra or her assistant, and number two, he is not doing this in order to "warn" the community, he is stalking this provider because he is a fucking creepy, deranged STALKER. Any one who has the least bit of respect for him needs to seriously reread this thread and the backstory behind this thread again.
Not siding with anyone on this as it sounds like a total train wreck. But you have to admit the hypocritical double standard IF a client did this with a provider what this would stir up & rightfully so. Goes both ways. It's beyond messed up ALL around & further illustrates why alot of others refuse to jump through hoops to these levels around for any of this.
But at this point OP should just drop this IMHO as it's been mentioned how long ago this happened, he's already brought this up on another TER board & mentioned everything in detail... Maybe other monger boards/fourms as well?? Idk... Which is his right just as much as it is Debra's to do the same tell her side but let's not beat a dead horse as others have mentioned! Obsessive for sure... But anything else beyond to what all parties have admitted to is truly any ones guess.
Let's move on guys & gals... But thank you to all for further proving certain things I will NOT do ever again to see a provider!
OP as wrong as any provider is no question about that for handing out your or anyone's info to a 3rd party.. you have to admit your hand in this for dragging it out as long as you have & this not coming off good on your end of things the longer you keep rehashing it!
Try asking any hooker you don't know REALLY well for the slightest bit of HER personal information and see where it gets you, so yes I agree about the "hypocritical double standard" Of course, come to think of it I do know the real names of quite a few hookers I know, but I am sure I am the exception not the rule. Hookers tend to trust me with this kind of information much more than most tricks in large part, not that I am so trustworthy, but because I care so little about what I call them I am likely to forget anything they tell me "in confidence" by the next morning. lol
As for beating a dead horse, the horse doesn't care about being beaten, he's already dead, but some of the rest of us who remember the train wrecks of the "good old days" are thoroughly enjoying this, I know I am.
even when I would have preferred not to have it. It strikes me that some gals are perhaps so lonely, that they love to share every intimate detail of their lives with a stranger, which I am sure often ends up being problematic for them at some point. In most cases, these were gals who worked right from their home, so you knew their address and their real name was right there on the mailbox/buzzer.
Then there was a gal who had every one of her dozen or so prescription psychoactive drugs arrayed on her kitchen counter and proceeded to give me the low down on why she took each one. I had not known her for more than 2 minutes at that point. We ended up getting very close, in any event.
As one (also crazy) gal once told me: It's a crazy business.
Oddly I had a "M&G" with a couple of girls from a new (and higher priced) agency in Atlanta several years ago that turned into an OTC overnight session with one of the girls. She had an entire duffle filled with every psychoactive, psychotropic and antipsychotic drug under the sun, and yeah her and I ended up getting very close too. You know what they say about the crazy ones. I later found out that she had been "involuntarily committed" several times, she ended up being too crazy even for me, but she was one of the hottest women I have ever been with, especially when she was "on" She was way past being manic, but she was similar to someone manic depressive, only on steroids, when she was "ON" she was a star that you could take anywhere, but when that switch would flip... I will put it this way, it took her three hours to find her way out of the airport one day after her plane landed.
I know that rule that is supposed to apply here is "never sleep with anyone crazier than yourself" but rules are made to be broken, right? lol
You are right it is a maze and if you have less than 45 minutes between connecting domestic and international flights you can be in big trouble trying to get across that maze.
No, this was at Bush Airport in Houston, which unlike Houston itself is rather easy to get around.
Chit chat is going to center around whatever is going on in people's lives. It's going to be the same as any civie interaction. People talk about what they are thinking about.
Like GaG, I have lots of providers names because I primarily do outcall, and I live in a high security community and building here in Vegas. So if a provider wants my money she has to give me her real name so I can give her name to the guard gate and building concierge who will check her ID. The downside is that I have to give them my real name and address as well. Since I’m not married and retired that’s not a major concern for me.
I couldve sworn you called some hooker a bitch for outing you. Maybe I misread your post. Or maybe you did not have a session with her.
Also, outcome-driven evaluation of guilt (whether or not he was damaged in any way due to actions) are shitty vehicles
It should not matter whether or not you killed anyone, to conclude drunk driving is bad behavior that should be punished.
I give leeway to both sides here. What both sides agree on is that mishandling client info. If I was interested in seeing Ms TER, this definitely would impact my decision in a negative way, if I was on the fence.
I think it was more along the lines of calling her a CUNT. lol
and yes, a hooker outed me a couple of years ago, and NO I have never met her in person.
As for Ms TER we have already had MANY discussions about personal information, and somehow we are still friends, but don't tell anyone, I would hate to ruin her reputation by letting it get out that she was friends with the likes of me. lol
I don't really see what you being friends with her has to do with anything, really.
I know that if an escort or an org ever did as much as expose my info to anyone, even if it didnt affect anything, Id likely go to every website she advertises, and warn others about it; as well as write a review on every review platform.
Just like I would with a doctor who would disclose my personal info, even if he was just shooting shit drinking beers with his buddies.
But that's just me. Some things are sacred to me, I guess.
Normally giving out any personal information to ANYONE would be a first degree felony IMO> But in this case, I think there is a lot of blame to go around and I would call her transgression more of a misdemeanor than a felony.
That is just one more difference between you and me, to you EVERYTHING is black and white with no room for shades of grey. In my world I am a bit more nuanced and nowhere near as rigid in my thinking. That is not a slam against you, just an observation that I am sure that everyone who knows you would agree with.
I notice you had no comment about the hooker who outed me was NOT a hooker that I had ever seen or was screened by. Again, just an observation...
What comment did you want ? I'm not really sure how it happened, because I'd think it'd be tough for someone to out a person without any info, but it hardly seems implausible.
I'm curious, yes, but curiosity killed a kitty.
And I get, the nuance here is that you kinda know her and believe her.
I don't believe him nor her, so I don't see any mitigating factors here.
I am a provider and Assistant. I don't need the OP stalking me too. So instead of posting under my real handle I used the Asst Alias.
Yeah man, you should probably just let it go at this point. If it's been 10 months, and no strangers have come knocking on your door, and no one is trying to extort or blackmail you....its done. Youre just making yourself look bad, and it can't help your case with any future providers by going on and on about it.
So, she made an error in judgment on how to get your deposit back to you. If you were in a rush to get it back, then its not like she had all the time in the world to figure every angle. Shit happens....
She owned it, and all the bitching in the world isn't going to reset the clock. Its done...
Im not trying to crucify anyone, but at this point...it all came out in the wash, and now ....its just beating a dead horse.
After much deliberation, the jury has reached a decision. These sorts of cases usually follow the following pattern/precedence:
1) John wants to meet escort;
2) Escort initially agrees and then changes her mind;
3) John claims that he was misunderstood and he is really a nice guy [despite unknowingly/knowingly having multiple "bad boy" and/or blacklists];
4) Escort claims that guy is a creeper, made her feel uncomfortable, and acted inappropriately.
Here, however, the escort and John have known each other for several years. As a result, there is only one logical conclusion: the John has become too attached. There is not enough evidence to conclude that the John is a stalker. Although he has held on to this way too long, it seems likely that recent posts about this topic triggered and exacerbated underlying feelings, causing them to resurface. Similarly, recent posts by the escort also point to potential contributing factors. For example, said escort previously posted something to the effect that she dated a previous client. At face value that may seem immaterial and irrelevant; however, upon closer examination it is clear that such statements have the potential to blur the line between fantasy and reality. This reminds me of a quote from Tommy Boy where a lady makes a statement in jest which was interpreted by Tommy Boy as "you are telling me that I have a chance." Accordingly, findings:
1) To avoid getting too attached said John must refrain from scheduling an appointment longer than 2 hours and is prohibited from seeing any lady more that 2 times in a given year.
2) To avoid complications said escort shall make it clear that money will be returned in the manner it was received. P411 points should be the preferred method of deposits.
3) It is completely unacceptable to ever give out personal information. Given that mitigating factors exist this is downgraded to a misdemeanor offense which means 2 years of probation.
Appeals must be filed within 90 days.
It is so ORDERED.
-- Modified on 9/27/2020 9:38:24 PM
that you were not nominated for The Supreme Court yesterday or this string would continue endlessly.
Come to think of it, this string has continued endlessly.
Its time to move on.
I have to disagree with your "finding #1". I have seen plenty of guys become attached to a particular provider after just two hours, either together or as two one-hour sessions. For those men that confuse feel-good endorphins from sex with love, this is a continuing problem for them, usually with whoever the girl du jour is. Oftentimes, they will be BL'd by one girl only to "fall in love" with the next girl they see. Cold-turkey is the way to get them out of it, not tapering off or limiting the number of sessions.
but that said, you are much more right than wrong on this. Especially the part you "borrowed" from me about the "mitigating factors that reduce this from a felony down to a misdemeanor"
Here is where I disagree, I think a guy going on about this for almost a year more than proves he is a stalker" or at least "stalkerish", and I don't know if you were serious about P 411 points, or if that was your way of saying not to give deposits in the first place, in which case I am not in disagreement with the position, I have never and will NEVER give a deposit to any hooker, no matter how reputable. Any woman I know well enough to trust with a deposit would in turn know me well enough to not need one.
Here is where I agree. Pretty much everything else. lol
A great precedent to set for Debra to continue giving out real info at her leisure. I guess being Ms TER, a title she should be stripped of, has its advantages.
Debra knew beforehand that I didn't want to involve a 3rd party, but she did it anyway because she's ARROGANT.
Debra has PROVED herself to be a reckless provider who shouldn't be trusted with real info.
Debra bragged to me about spooking her clients by telling them she knows every time they visit her website along with what they viewed and for how long. She thought it was hilarious. It was fucking creepy. Her SafeOffice client database is one huge blackmail source.
I was done posting on this thread until I was attacked again and again.
Hmm, I step away and come back to a stranger, a nobody, judging me based on lies from a delusional provider and her assistant. GTFOH. LMFAO. Remove your head from Debra's ass, you'll see the truth.
I exposed a provider's reckless behavior of her giving out my real info. I DON'T GIVE A FUCK if I lost some stranger's respect, damaged reputation, or is on any provider's DNS list for doing so. I knew I'd get backlash because of who she was. It needed to be known.
Harassed her for 10 months? Fucking lies. Shouldn't get “facts" from a liar. I called her out on 2 other sites less than 2 MONTHS ago. This FINALLY made her tell me who the guy was. Why did it take 10 MONTHS to tell me? Was I supposed to NEVER find out who had my info? Bullshit. I had my kid's safety to think about of which I expressed my concern to her with no response but to be blocked. She knew giving it to her best friend was reckless and thought I'd just let it go. She was wrong. She thought she'd get away with it.
Interesting to now know Debra's assistant is a provider too. Makes sense why she doesn't fully trust her. She might want to let clients know when they give her their real info they're actually giving it to 2 providers instead. Pretty shady IMO, so no surprise coming from her.
Typical MO. Debra has her assistant, and now someone else too, fighting her battles for her by spewing unfounded lies. The new lies with each one of their new replies is fucking comical. Their “other” methods required more real info (work & friend's address) or exposing my bank info to her friend to get refund in a usable means. I wasn't giving her any more info. Her DEMAND for real info NEVER stops.
Know why this thread isn't on Twitter YET? Because a supposedly “reputable” provider gave out client's real info during the return of a deposit. The very 2 things Twitter providers require from their clients. This thread and its bad apple (Debra) isn't good for their business. It just might make clients think twice about providing either one.
In my book, there isn't a statute of limitations for a provider ABUSING her client's TRUST by giving out their real info. Her reckless actions cannot be undone.
I, for once, never condoned what she did. Regardless of your and her bickering, she put a persons info in the hands of a third party, and there are no excuses for that.
You should leave a review for her on every site possible ,explaining your situation, for more people to see. Whether or not they believe is another question. However, I think most mongers abide by the "better safe than sorry", so even if they don't really believe you they probably would think twice before seeing her. That's about as much as you can do right now.
C’mon dude. Let it go. Most agree that she shouldn’t have shared your name. I STRONGLY agree with that.
But that point has been made. You can’t make that case any stronger.
However, the case against you as someone who is a little unhinged... the evidence for that is honestly growing with each post IMO. Just chalk this all up as a learning experience and move on. And the lesson itself is just that - move on. Life is too short to get hung up on things like this.
Agreed....let it goooo!!!
You need some Midol, or switch your tampons buddy. Nobody here is interested in your continued rants and machinations. Nor are we sorry that you are smitten and sulking.
Here's the bottom line: She didn't bend to your aggressive ways. She made the best of a bad situation that YOU had a hand in creating with your poor decisions.
She will not see you any longer. Its time to pack this string in because by furthering it only causes you to lose EVEN MORE credibility, and possibly the chance to see other providers. Your passive aggressive behavior is being noted.
The choice is your's. If you take the dumb option you will be relegated to backpage.com.
Its time to man up and leave her alone.
As an FYI, I do not even know this provider, having never seen her nor even communicated with her. Like many hobbyists I'm growing tired of these Eastsider weenie rants.
Drake did the right thing an reached out via back channels to apologize. All good!
-- Modified on 10/8/2020 7:51:04 PM
She would post your personal info on twitter
because as they say once you give it out you have no control over it. Cut your loss and never look back! Consider the deposit as the price of your privacy!
A lot of people started suggesting just what personal information was given out. What seems to be the case, if we take Deb at face value, is that a name was used and the location of some FexEx pick-up point that presumably is not too inconvenient for the OP.
That is a lot different than the claims about real name and address.
I suppose if the guy lives in some really small town and has an unusual name just the name might be an issue. But really, while the situation is hardly one where either gets to claim much high ground, THIS really doesn't merit all this noise not repeated posts about it over the course of the year.
Enough knee-jerk reactions to "personal information", let this thread die unless you're actually going to read it all.
I agree and I should have checked! Why are so many posts? Just a waste of time ...
But unfortunately it is a hot-button item and people do tend to react rather than pause and consider just with is being said. PI is a legitimate concern and how it is treated by those who are trusted with it does matter.
But I think for both those reasons it is very advisable to check one's knee as it starts to jerk and check to see if those assumptions pulling on the knee are in fact supported by the assumptions.
It really does not matter whether or not his name is common and whether or not he's from a small town.
It's a matter of trust being breached. This result-oriented thinking is a fallacy...it doesn't matter much whether a drunk driver injured someone or escaped unscathed, the point is you probably don't ever want to ride with such a drunk driver. Ever.
Similarly, it does not matter whether a guy's name is John Smith or LeBron Okunkwu, if the doctor going for drinks with his buddies tells a funny story of this guy with a large object up his ass and uses his real name... that's a hippocraric oath breach and a HIPAA lawsuit waiting to happen. It really does not matter whether or not someone can easily identify them. What matters is never disclosing sensitive information.
I would send a dollar so you could buy a fucking clue but then you'd have to give me information I would prefer living my entire live without ever hearing.
TRUST? Have you been reading? Apparently the OP has been stalking the girl. She tried to send the refund the same way it was sent to her but the guy refused that. Once trust if broken between the two all bets are pretty much off -- suggesting that one side needs to remain 100% rocket-approved ethical when the other side has violated trust is just bull shit.
At the end of the day this is a situation that went bad and no one won but suggesting that the failing in only on the provider is myopic at best.
That is the last I have to say as this thread should be buried at this point.
I have been reading the thread just fine, Jensen. I've read all the he said and she said stuff. I trust neither.
The part about him stalking the girl is part of "he said she said".
The personal information identifying a client (or provider, for that matter) should never be shared with anyone under any circumstance. This is not "rocket-approved" ethical stuff, this is a very simple and widely accepted concept. Both in the provider world (although many providers seem to enjoy breaking this in their public outings, I believe this thread has a sample link) and other areas which demand confidentiality.
I don't really see what him wanting a refund sent a certain way had to do with anything. He didn't ask her to disclose info to her friend, did he? That was purely her decision.
And the whole thing about trust broken between two sides,even if true (which is very questionable to say the least) is compete bullshit, on your part. Does a patient lying to his doctor means the latter can expose his info? No, it does not. You can't just go ahead and break confidentiality whenever you see fit. And honestly, if you feel that you do, what does a common name have to do with anything?
Saying "but he didn't even have a common name" is a badly put together excuse for a fuck up. It's like saying, I put your sensitive info out to a unprotected website, but since no one seemingly visited it, we're all good. No, it's not good. Why would I share my info with someone who puts my info out without proper security procedures in place? Exactly.
If you don't cool your Jets Rocketman, everyone will know that you are on the Bennie's.
Pull back from your attorney head and re-read the posts for the OP. Its clear that he's crossed the line with emotion for the provider and is angry that he's been cut off. If she asked to refund in the same way that she was paid, then that should be the beginning and end of the discussion.
Instead, Mr. Little Man played bully customer and that may be where the provider went wrong because it became a source of power or control for the limp dick.
Stop litigating and drop the pro bono crap. It keeps giving oxygen to something that is DEAD. Its as DEAD as Mr. Little Man's chances of seeing this provider along with many providers again. Your cooperation is counter productive, Let's move on to topics that further the entire community.
I will give oxygen to whatever the fuck I want on this board. Got it?
When I see bullshit reasoning of "bu bu but his name wasn't even common", I will comment on it and will call it out. It has nothing to do with the discussion on hand, its a weak attempt to justify a bad move. Get this weak shit out of here. If you want to say she had the right to disclose the info, I disagree too, but don't use this bs to justify it.
The bottom line here is that personal info was leaked,something that was acknowledged. End of story. I'm not interested in he said she said. This is why my advice is if the op felt he was slighted, to write his experience on every public review site or public forum. Which this forum is, as well.
now you are an accountant drawing bottom lines.
nobody cares about your opinions...especially since you are posting as an alias...
try manning up and for a few cents throw in a few reviews to have some credibility.
Otherwise it will like you face at home when people just shrug their shoulders when you mouth off.
I have several reviews, but apparently you don't know how to view them. Shame.
Here, Ill help you out:
http://www.theeroticreview.com/reviews/searchbyreviewerResults.asp?MemberName=team_rocket_qwerty
But yes, feel free to throw ad hominem attacks my way because I disagree with whatever you're saying.
Not really an ad hominen as he was describing what you do and letting you know how a lot of people view those who use an alias all the time.
Interestingly I'm finding it difficult to see where your use of an alias fall into any of the 9 VERY acceptable reasons TER lists. True, TER doesn't say those are the only legitimate justifications, but, in general, I think people on TER consider using an alias as a default poor etiquette.
TER has many tools to stop this wasteful exercise... I wrote to the mods who didn't think that this diseased post had run its course.
Of course they are desperate for traffic and controversy brings traffic. So they don't care about the members who are slugging through boards filled with pathetic nonsense.
So when the renewals come due in the winter and spring we should abstain. Cut them off from their cheap date allowance because they did not earn their keep. Support baseless whiners and your revenue stream hits the breaks should be the new reality.
This is an absolutely, 100% textbook ad hominem attack. LOL at you saying otherwise.
He attacked my character and profile because he did not like the content of my post. Ironically, it turned out it is he who is not well-versed in TER to actually check my reviews.
There is no link between the number of reviews I have, or whether I have any at all, and what we were discussing. Zero. None.
And in fact, if I posted what most people posted in this thread, I bet anything that he'd never question my credibility. Again, this is a textbook definition of ad hominem attack.
He questioned my credibility because of my content, not because I was posting behind an alias. He also called me some names and other shit. All because I refused to stop posting in this thread. I wasn't even paying attention to him, he barged in and DEMANDED I stopped voicing my opinion. I told him I'm gonna do what I want where I want, nothing I did was against the rules.
A great example of bullying and peer pressure. Ironically, he then apparently ran and cried to the mods. The thread is about disclosing private info, and the provider in this thread admitted to disclosing info. Why the fuck would this thread be censored or deleted ? LOL
As far as alias etiquette on here, I don't know about your statement. I see aliases posting normally on this board with little issues.
Only when aliases post something that the majority doesn't agree with, it starts being an issue. Which is hypocrisy at its finest. Questioning credibility only when convenient is pretty dishonest tactics.
Plus, I don't really see what is the downsides of posting under alias...the only I can think of is people can't ignore you if they don't know your non-alias handle.
Many providers have an assistant or a booker or even a BFF (either male or female) who might end up seeing your info.
There is only one way to be absolutely sure no one gets to see your info and that is NOT to send it in the first place. As for her BFF, I can see myself in his position, I wouldn't give it a second thought if one of my hooker buddies asked me to do the exact same thing for one of them, and just like I imagine Debra's friend, I most likely would forget the guys name 30 seconds after I sent the envelope, I simply don't fucking care about the personal info of some guy halfway across the country who I will never meet, UNLESS of course my hooker buddy ends up missing someday and I remember some guy who was stalking her for the last year or so.
Hence why it's a double standard - imagine what would happen if I got a hooker's real info and shared it with MY BFF or assistant.
Doctors also have assistants who listen in on the stuff. And patients are aware that the assistants know what's up. I agree, it would be unreasonable for the OP or me to think the provider's assistant didn't know the info.
The person mailing the fedex, however, was not her assistant and he was not aware of him knowing. At the very least, the provider could've asked confirmation from the client about this move. If the client agrees to it, none of this trainwreck happens. If he disagrees, she would have to find another way and again, this trainwreck probably never happens.
I'd expect my information to be treated with utmost confidentiality and not passed around like a cheap.... well, maybe this is the wrong board to make this comparison...
This only reinforces my opinion in that if you have something, ANYTHING to lose...never send any of your real info to anyone in the biz.
and just like if one of my hooker friends had ask me to do the very same thing, I wouldn't have glanced twice at the name on the label except to make sure it matched the name and address I had been given.
Your "double standard" is much more of a "false equivalency" as the hooker in question didn't just happen "to get" his personal info, he gave it freely to her as part of his "jumping through her hoops" which brings us to the part of this discussion where we actually AGREE. and that is if you have ANYTHING to lose if it were to get out that you are seeing hookers than NEVER give out your personal info, but once it's given, what Debra did was hardly the crime many of you are making it out to be. The idiot stalker is just pissed off that she has cut him out of her life and now he's lashing out, trying to stay relevant. The only thing he has really accomplished IMO is to get himself on a LOT of DNS lists.
Idk GaGa....the way he's going on and on about it makes me want to see Debra....
That must be some magical stuff!🤣
Agreed, totally worthless and unproductive thread. Isn't the hobby supposed to avoid this sort of drama? If I was Deborah I would have done a face-to-face visit and handed the asshole his money in a box with a dead rat.
Eastsider and Rocketman are two losers...Argumentative bullies.
They make quite the couple.
Didn't we establish, as they say in the law, failure to demonstrate willful intent?
WE may have...
However the spineless mods want to keep the sauce mixing at high temperatures, regardless of the VIP experience.
Unfortunately it still is... If anything this train wreck should be a sticky as a learning lesson for both clients and providers alike. IMO
I find it hilarious everyone is getting so worked up over this. Not saying either side is in the right ...
Facts are Debra a provider gave out OP's personal identifying info to a 3rd party, unless OP knew about this 3rd party or not we don't know or will EVER know the truth! If roles were reversed and OP did the same thing Debra has done there would be hell to pay for sure as a client.
Facts are OP is being accused of being an online stalker. Do any of us have proof to call him one?? No so we will never know if there is truth to any of that either! Though OP has been going on about this for almost a better part of a year which doesnt make his case look good!
Let's call a spade a spade. Op just needs to drop it as nothing he can do at this point further than he already has... Anything is counter productive & boardline obsessive repeating himself.
Debra from now on all I can recommend is be completely upfront with your clients about having an assistant/Booker or whatever the case maybe IF arent already. Clients might be iffy on giving personal identifying after this rightfully so IMHO
Lesson to be learned, a designated hobby number, email a long with references or P411 is all identifying info a smart monger/hobbyist should be giving out. Also after hearing this cluster will never jump through hopes on a deposit unless its an overnight
Pretty good assessment Mr rockon !
Better communication would've avoided this wreck. Absolutely, no question.
You should look yourself in the mirror first then blame others