In another thread a discussion about the sincerity of compliments came up:

(Misconceptions, Lies and more:http://www.theeroticreview.com/discussion_boards/viewmsg.asp?MessageID=386364&boardID=12&page=1)

The suspension of disbelief in a P4P scenario can be important, and an empty compliment can be deflating as some pointed out.  Even if it's sincere, it makes sense that guys would have a natural sense of doubt considering the nature of the interaction.

So my question is, you can doubt the words that tumble from her soft lips, but can you doubt the look in her eyes?

In your experiences, when you've looked into the windows of the soul, what have you seen? Eye contact is so important during sexual play, during flirting, when you're silent and panting and just looking at each other.

Can you see the empty far away look?

Do you ever see more? Can you tell when you getting turned on makes her hot? Do you see affection, warmth, desire?   When you do see more, do you think she can fake that?



-- Modified on 5/18/2010 10:55:45 AM

Lauren,
As a small part of this business is a little acting sometimes and I truly believe, that if a lady is that good, she can convince a gentleman for the time that he is with her, that she is totally enraptured by him and is thoroughly enjoying his company. And by that I mean the way she looks at him, touches him, whispers in his ear, etc. etc.

Actresses on TV have been so convincing with co-stars they hardly know, so why not in this biz? It takes great skill to come across as genuine if the real feelings are not there, but I don't think it's out of a very good escort's reach.

But I sometimes think we have a tough crowd in relation to being believed for the absolute reality or the absolute illusion some of us create for these wonderful guys we see.

on more than one occasion. I am an "eye guy". I think they are one of the most magnetic parts of a woman. I've been with ladies who first got my attention with a picture showing me those beautiful eyes, and I haven't been disappointed. Whether they were acting or not is irrelevant to me. When they were with me, I was the only thing that mattered, and they were madly in love with me. That's just the way things work in my little fantasy world. Is it bullshit? Of course it is, but it's MY bullshit, and I think I'll just let it keep working its magic for me.

The empty, far away look? Oh, yes, I can spot that one quite easily.

... then other women (providers or not) can fake it too.

But such faking is merely superficial.

A woman's lips and (superficially) eyes can lie.

But beyond the superficial, she might TRY to fake it with me, and I might let her think she has been successful. But the reality is that she can't.

Why not? Because I have been trained in the fine art of interrogation without torture. The limbic mind; unless under control of a Yogi, will yield its secrets to me without the person ever knowing what I have learned.

I am only fooled because I actively participate in allowing it.

I'd love the opportunity to meet you John.If you can really do that I'd love to hear what you have to say about what you might learn about me in a meeting.

Very interesting..I guess I can say I that I am who I am in this biz because I allow myself to be but when outside the biz, have vastly different views and am quite a different person. I compartmentalize very well....may be a good thing, may be not.

At least we might have a really good chat portion of the meeting...you strike me as having a lot to say.

but why would I want to?

8o)

There are a lot of things that add up to me being convinced that the lady's head is in it with me as well as her vagina and mouth. Eye contact, conversation, noises, activities. It's a combined vibe, not just one thing. I'm really not looking to get into her soul, I just want to have a good time for a few hours with a fun lady. We don't have to be soul mates to do that. Just two adults having a good time together.

Yes, I have seen the empty far away look...but never from the same lady twice.

I'd been with a few girls since starting the hobby last year, and like most guys, I've wondered if some of their "O's" were real or fake.  Until I met my ATF.

Right from the start I could tell she was a much more giving provider...but as we were, how do I say, reaching the peak of our combined coupling, I looked at her as I thought she was starting to cum. Well, her eyes were rolled back under her eyelids...and stayed there while she continued to shake.

So while the thought "if they're shakin' they ain't fakin' " was going thru my mind, I was also thinking:  if that wasn't real, then this must be an Oscar worthy performance.

So, ladies, do you practice rolling your eyes back like that?

With that said, it's not so tough to fake the "look" in her eyes.  If her cheeks are flushed when she has that certain "look," then I chalk it up to being genuine and not that she's relying on some sensory memory she learned to project while working at the actor's studio.

(kidding)

is having a reasonably good time? That's all I really look for. I must say the eye contact is significantly different from seeing a lady for the first time, vs. one I've seen for multiple return visits. Longer gazes mean less need to break eye contact in order to control any negative feelings (boredom, anxiety, anger, frustration, etc., that may be arising.

John, you and Dwight ("The Office") seem to have much in common.

A good provider will give amazing session but courtesan or "part time girlfriend" will make her date believe he is the only one for her and that she is genuinely interested in him.

That can be accomplished either by acting or by having ability to find something special in every one and walk away without getting too attached.

Good actress will sound convincing, but eyes probably would be a give away.

I don't think it can be faked.  It takes very specific personality and skills to be 100 percent into someone who you may not be in love with.

An excellent point.

However, there are thousands upon thousands of actors in the entertainment world I think there are few that can pull it off emotion in their eyes successfully - even out of the famous ones. That's why they become big names and earn impressive incomes.

I like what you said here a lot:

"But I sometimes think we have a tough crowd in relation to being believed for the absolute reality or the absolute illusion some of us create for these wonderful guys we see."

So true, it doesn't really matter how real it is. It matters that you walk away feeling like you're walking on air.

It isn't "Your bullshit", it's your moment.

Glad you let the magic do it's work.

I'd like to think that the lady I see, is into me...But I do know the name of the game...After all, it is p4p...As long as the gent goes into the meeting clean and respects the lady...I'm sure both sides will enjoy themselves..Therefore, the lady will appreciate you and give you her best performance, attitude and time...

He's notorious for "Pay-for-Say" activity. LOL

I don't think many of us look for it, or really wan't to know that it's not there 99% of the time.

That said, I think it is a rare woman that can fake that look.

Count me in with the majority of the guys that don't even look for it. I doesn't concern in the P$P world. The only time I look for it is on the rare ocassions that P4P leads to something more serious.

-- Modified on 5/18/2010 1:59:04 PM

that the over to top oohs and aahs and its so big are my P4P friends attempts to make me feel good, and don't question if they are real or not. i do not impugn a negative motive, nor do i assume that i am the worlds greatest and best hung lover based on them. oh, and aren't we supposed to keep our eyes closed during sex...don't tell me that you actually peek!! (LOL) sail

While we all speculate about whether or not a provider can successfully convince (through acting) the genuineness some seek from GFE encounters (e.g. that look in one’s eyes), we can only answer the question for ourselves. I hear a few providers and hobbyists on this thread say "the" eye contact cannot be faked. Perhaps this is true for them, but I happen to think it’s not so black and white for all.

To be honest, there are some really great actors out there who learn at a young age how to manipulate other’s in order to get their needs and wants met (e.g. material goods, relationship, housing, employment – job interview, etc). We see these people in all walks of life, shapes and sizes, social and economic backgrounds, etc. They are not Oscar winning actors, but just people who have successfully learned how to make the unreal believable. Some of these creatures walk among the provider population. Yes, there are SOME providers who have such great acting skills that they are able to make every man feel that “once in a lifetime” experience even if it is an illusion. And this has nothing to do with the “status” level (provider vs. courtesan vs. girlfriend escort...) of a provider; it simply has to do with her desire to do whatever needed (even acting) to ensure ALL of her guests have that unbelievable experience, even if she isn’t truly into them all.

Admitting that some providers are able to achieve an element of illusion that can’t be detected shouldn’t really take away from the experience. Frankly, it shouldn’t matter as long as the gent has a fabulous time. Now if we were on match.com, then the fact that she is acting would be a problem, but we are on an escort board, in which providers are paid for their time ($$P4P$$). And to successfully maintain clientele, a provider should be able to either see something in EVERY SINGLE client that makes her feel that mushy gushy feeling inside or be able to act like she has that feeling, because after all, he’s paying for an extraordinary time.

This is my personal opinion on the matter from witnessing actors and hustlers in the act. I have even been fooled and made to believe the unreal. Some people just have amazing acting skills, even if they are not the people on this thread (including me).

And I have responded to topic before, because I think it’s important to not equate acting in order to provide a P4P job well done as something negative or inferior. An experience that feels incredible but is achieved through acting should be celebrated. LOL. We should reward those ladies who are able to go above and beyond (and act if need be even when they are not into the gent) to offer a stellar experience and that “connection” their gentlemen friends desire. Kudos provider actresses! My hat is off to you!!!

My .02

Good one..touche....

I absolutely concur. A job done so well should be celebrated and not torn apart if it wasn't the rest of the worlds idea of real.

"As a small part of this business is a little acting sometimes and I truly believe, that if a lady is that good, she can convince a gentleman for the time that he is with her, that she is totally enraptured by him and is thoroughly enjoying his company. And by that I mean the way she looks at him, touches him, whispers in his ear, etc. etc."

EOM

but it can take all the fun out of a helluvagood time

really feeling the emotions, so that in a sense it is not acting, at least for that temporary time period.

I have an aunt who acts, and who I saw give a knockout performance as Willy Loman's wife in Death of a Salesman. It took her half an hour to "come down" after the emotion of the final scene. In real life, she is one of the most genuine people I know.

But if you are into the "acting" GFE experience, guys, remember to come back to reality when the performance ends.

because I can give very good BFE in return for pleasing GFE.

It's a fantasy.

If the chemistry is really excellent, if perhaps you come to genuinely like one another, you may even *FEEL* it for a time. Have if flow into you and through you and possess your very soul, for a time.

It feels wonderful.

BUT - It's a fantasy.

Even if it were "real", it's a fantasy, because the hobby is not a real place - it's a nice place to visit, but NOBODY gets to live there.....

Actually, sometimes folks pay to either hear me speak or to chat with me.

Alas, so far none of them are providers. LOL

But I assure you I have good social skills and common sense; but wouldn't like a job selling paper products.

Hand back the envelope.

-tessen

If I'm watching your every nuance like a human lie-detector, I'm not going to enjoy myself very much; am I?

What happens when I determine (for example) why you are able to compartmentalize so well? I ask you at what age you first noticed the ability, and then watch carefully as I have you speculate as to its origin ...

Unfortunately, that sort of thing is simply incompatible with a session enjoyable for both parties; and I'd never subject a provider to that live. I just notice what I notice.

Because I pre-screen for character in advance; I can kick back and relax.

The fact that a person *can* deconstruct the crap out of something doesn't mean that s/he should do so.

The simple fact is that deception and manipulation are parts of everyday life. Ever see a truck commercial with the Western imagery and deep, manly voice?

I do not expect that some woman I don't know from adam that I am paying X is really madly in love with me. If she is, there's something seriously wrong.

The only things I am alert for are signs that she might somehow be coerced or that I might hurt her in some way.

Beyond that, I simply appreciate what a master of the craft can do.

Just don't fake poorly.

A good example. The way a ladies (or mans) thighs twitch and quiver as a good orgasm is approaching. I assume that it would take a lot of practice to fake, and is easy to fake badly.

A lady I saw had continual contractions of her cervix (resulting in lots of rushing air). I believe this would be hard to fake as well.

We all have to pretend a bit and pretend to believe a bit. And if it feels good and we're having fun. GREAT!

Manginas answering this thread that continually fake a desire to touch a woman!  Some go as far as to say they have actually had sex with one!(and no the fact that you continue to breast feed does not count!)
Basically I figure the looks I get are of relief that I am not a 5"2" potbellied troll with a large, hair filled wart on my nose.  It's all gravy from there!

Well said John and to answer the question you posed to me in an earlier post, the compartmentalization began when I started this. Why? Because in the real world I have my own set of preferences and if a client comes along that does not meet these (and why would he)as I have not chosen him, I am obliged to do a job that I have willingly chosen to give him the best time I can and if that means slipping into my role so I can do that ..so be it. It does not cause me harm, or moral turmoil or anything that I find destructive...it is a way to perform and do well at something I have chosen to do and do very well.

If he is happy and satisfied then mission accomplished. No harm, no foul.

These are just for general interest, not anything in particular.

http://changingminds.org/explanations/behaviors/coping/compartmentalization.htm
http://www.healthyplace.com/sex/articles/psychology-of-compartmentalizing-sex/menu-id-66/
http://psp.sagepub.com/cgi/content/abstract/33/2/143
http://ezinearticles.com/?Psychology:-PTSD-and-Dissociation&id=130796

We all compartmentalize to a degree. This is necessary when, for example, one role in our life demands a different set of values from another. In business I may ruthlessly destroy competitors while at home I am loving. Same person, different compartments.

The same might be said for someone like John Edwards who was a model loving husband while simultaneously having a torrid affair. He wasn't so much a hypocrite as someone whose life was compartmentalized.

There is a lot of debate about compartmentalization among the psycho-types. Most often, they view it as a pathology.

Personally, I believe it to be a highly useful tool. We live in an era of universal deceit; and so compartmentalization becomes necessary to preserve positive value in any part of life.

As for myself, I have been able to compartmentalize at will since I was about 7. Just as compartmentalization enables you to do things that would otherwise be difficult and maybe even harmful otherwise; I have used it advantageously as well.

Most psychologists would howl and spit at me for being a proponent of compartmentalization; of course. But, then again, most would declare my hobbying to be a very very very bad thing. (*grin*)

Thanks John..I will read these. I too feel that compartmentalization is a form of pathology but not all pathology is detrimental...not saying you said this, just commenting from my own experience.

And since I am not using to cause anyone any harm but to my gain...don't see an issue there at all, although some psycho types would...