Yes, believe it or not, the discussion about "What's wrong with the NY guys?" is STILL going on.  I can barely believe it myself.  After my last comment on that thread a few days ago, Amandita sent me a rather rude PM to my TER mailbox.  I replied with an equally rude letter.  She wrote back to me this morning, and some of the things she said about our little community (and New Yorkers) would probably ruin her business for life.  

Now, ordinarily, I wouldn't trouble the Board with such nonsense.  I would just respond with a loud "FU*K YOU" and put this nonsense to bed.  But then she blocked me.  That's right: after starting a conversation with me, she decided she'd block me.  So, should I just copy and paste the text of our PMs here on the National Board?  Would everybody like that?  Can I please get a ruling from the administrators on this?  My life has never been a popularity contest, so I don't exactly care if she dislikes me intensely for posting her hate-mail for all to see.  What does everyone think about this?  Of course, she can always post it herself if she has the balls.

Or try to get yourself "unblocked" by threatening to take it public. Even if you're not trying to do that, the results are the same.

The thread that I found on the NY board has apparently been well pruned, but maybe I got the gist. It was personal foul for her to post what she did.

It tells me that it's in her character that if she feels insulted, she'll come back with a bigger insult. There's no good way out of it if one of you doesn't block it or otherwise stop the messages.

I'm not part of the "let everything go" crowd.


I think that folk who start things, shouldn't just be let off the hook, nor do I think it's good for folk to just look the other way.


Now I know NOTHING about the whole situation, but that is MY take.


Oh and women are FAMOUS for bitching and running/hiding, so don't be surprised by that.

Trust me, many (if not all) of the women who are yellin about equal rights, can BY NO MEANS handle things on an even keel when it comes to fighting with men.

Things are out of hand these days, and the dudes who just lay back and let these women run wild, are not part of the solution.

IMHO.

You guys are both letting your egos get out of control.  I'm a New York hobbyist and I don't particularly care what she says about us.  She had some bad experiences and made some unfair remarks.  I can only presume that whatever fucked up things she said about NY hobbyists must apply to me too.  SFW?  There are a lot of great ladies in the city and I don't need to spend any brain power worrying about her opinion.

Now you want to escalate this because she gave you the hand?  Let it go.  It doesn't seem like she's coming back, and if she really has it out for hobbyists in general it'll show in her work and her clientel will notice.

The same exact thing happened to me. Here's the PM I received.

"Why don't all you sad guys give it a fucking rest and get off my case. The message was about the guys in NYC and NOT Atlanta so what is your fucking problem? Go away and don't PM me again you sad bastard."

As I said in my PM, :"You PM'd me, if you don't like it  GFY, and the horse you rode in on."

Really, all it would have taken is a phony apology and an offer to just let this argument go.  But she chose to insult me (all of us, really) and then block me.  It pisses me off.  It wasn't exactly a catastrophic incident, but still...

People shouldn't go through life being afraid of what everyone else will think.  I'll post the transcript.  If the board wants to cancel my account or delete the message, that's their prerogative.  After all, it's their board.  If she didn't want to start some shit, she shouldn't have PM'd me.

Here's how I see the basic timeline: she posted her opinion publicly, got shit about it [on the NY Board too], then she PM'd you with two nasty messages and blocked you preventing you from responding to her second PM.  Does that sound about right?

Admittedly, what she did was unprincipled and petty by not letting you respond, but what is publicly posting your PMs supposed to do?  Ruin her business?  Because she blocked you?  

Posting private correspondence is no better than what she did.  How is it supposed to help our "community" in any way?  Aren't you then making it ok for providers to post our private PM's?  She's already said her piece, we all know what she thinks.  I feel this is just about your bruised ego - you just can't let her have the last word.

You'll do whatever you want anyway, so post her PM.  Ding!  You win!

And no, her business won't be hurt because she blocked me.  She implied that New Yorkers deserve terrorist attacks because we're rude!  Are you f*cking kidding me?!?  She also said that she pities guys who have to pay for it.  Uh, that would be... us, her clients!  Did you get that?  This is too priceless!  I miss Kathy from 42nd St!

about is, what are you winning?   If the answer is money, or pussy, or something getting you any closer to either, or anything else tangible or useful, then the choice is obvious.

But if it's nothing more than the last word, I dunno, that sounds like a really slow Saturday afternoon to me.

People say outrageous shit [men and women in equal proportions] to get under each others' skins. But still, what's the point of revealing this?

people say all kinds of shit when they get mad.   There's almost always a flip side.   Just one is, wait until ya get older and the women are crawling all over ya begging for attention, and you just don't give a shit.  Ironic as hell, but that's life, innit?

but she pulled the same crap on me too. It's a free country, and she has the right to be a bitch if she wants to be, but this is a public information board and I have the right to let all of her potential clients what type of person they're dealing with.

I can't speak for Aug5, but I have a very thick skin, but she managed to get under it. and I don't even live in NY

You crossed a line for nothing more than to get the last word.

Sure, she was out of line. But this is a fucks for bucks board, not high tea with the queen (do I get bonus points for using the famous quote??)

My suggestion, go see a doc to get your nose fixed after it got bent out of shape, go see your ATF and relax, and then let it go.

You are dreaming if you really think what was said here is really going to ruin her business. The vast majority of TER users don't read the forums, they just come here to read and write reviews. Were I Amandita, I would be more concerned about the quality of reviews which are good, but could be better. THAT is what will ruin a lady's business, much more so than what is said on a discussion board.

But at the end of the day, the messages were PRIVATE messages. You crossed a line, and to be honest Aug, I thought better of you than that.

A moderator on a local board posted a PM that contained worse information than the pettiness of this episode.  So yes, if a moderator can cross a line, this here is nothing.

First of all, there is no rule that I found prohibiting the posting of PMs so it's perfectly "legal" - it's just tasteless.

Secondly, an argument from precedence is a legal one, it doesn't mean that the first instance was right, just that it was done first.


Thirdly, since when does moderator behavior become the standard for doing the right thing?  They fuck up too y'know.

The fact that a moderator did it doesn't make it right. I'm not speaking in terms of official rules here. I'm speaking in terms of respect. When you post something that was said in private -regardless of the forum, you've crossed a line.

Sure, the argument can be made that she crossed a line first with her message, but in that case, what are we doing here? Are we trying to see who can make themselves out to be the biggest A-hole? At some point, someone needs to say "You win, you can be the bigger son of a bitch here. I'm going to walk away"

This wasn't a private conversation. This was an attack she initiated, and not just to one person. I was just goin to ignore her until I found out that she was PMing other hobbyists with her bile.  A person that goes around attacking people  for disagreeing with her publicly has no reasonable expectation of confidentiality from the people she attacks.

If you don't have the balls to say it in public, then you better just STFU.

And hobbyists responded.  She didn't "get away with it" as one poster above suggested.

Anything extra she said to you in a PM is NOT public by definition no matter what the content.  Confidentiality should only be breached if there is a reasonable expectation that the material well-being of others will be affected by it.

If she had revealed the secret location of Osama, I can see how that would have larger interest but instead what we have is exactly what I suspected, inflammatory remarks intended to piss off a hobbyist.  No one is going to read Aug5's PM and have their minds changed.  Amandita's posts were already damaging to her image.

What you're missing and denying is the main issue now - ego.  Yours, hers, his, theirs.

Why does this scenerio remind us all of how things were, back in grade school on the school grounds

How sad that things got as far as this

How sad when this is supposed to be an "Adult Board", when there are those acting like 6/7 year olds?


Look~

Both Gent and Lady said too much to one another, as is. Let the matter drop. But, putting a private pm (NO MATTER WHO STARTED IT~ GET OVER IT), out in the open is just sad lol

Anyways, in a day or two, you both will get laid and hopefully, get over it. If not, then someone has some major issues, and that is why then a doctor for an analysis.. may just be in order. Don't you think?

Why does this scenerio remind us all of how things were, back in grade school on the school grounds

How sad that things got as far as this

How sad when this is supposed to be an "Adult Board", when there are those acting like 6/7 year olds?


Look~

Both Gent and Lady said too much to one another, as is. Let the matter drop. But, putting a private pm (NO MATTER WHO STARTED IT~ GET OVER IT), out in the open is just sad lol

Anyways, in a day or two, you both will get laid and hopefully, get over it. If not, then someone has some major issues, and that is why then a doctor for an analysis.. may just be in order. Don't you think?

In retrospect, it does seem a bit immature to bring this to the board.  And perhaps I did inflate the likely impact of my posts on her business.  Anyway, I said what I had to say, and I'm done with it.

I just have two questions:  1) Why did you think better of me? and 2) Who are all these aliases responding to my posts?  Use your real screen names once in a while, folks!  You need to let them out to breathe!

Aug5~

In this case, you were wrong.

She voiced her opinion both on the board, and in a PRIVATE MESSAGE. The difference? It's one thing to voice something privately, and still EXPECT it to be private. It's another thing to take that message, and post it for all to see, because it was just between you and her.

Apparently, the whole board knows of her opinion, for she had stated it so, in an earlier post. So, that is nothing new.

But, by adding more fuel to the fire, actually makes you look like someone who will not be able to  be trusted to back channel with, for the fear of having their conversation posted on an open forum.

Honestly, I think that your ego in this case, got bruised and you felt the need to overcompensate for it. But in the end, it back fired. You had let her get to you.

Sometimes, it's best to try to keep the "ego in check", no matter how much it may affect you.

Remember, you never want them to see you sweat

1. I thought better of you because in the past you have posted messages that I had alot of respect for. This thread, and the one above amount to an exercise in public humiliation in retaliation for pissing you off. I simply thought you would be a better man than that.

I accept though, that we all have our moments where we lose sight of taking the high road, and I appreciate what you said in your response.

2. Regarding aliases - I confess I ocassionally use an alias, though most often its because I have something to say that I expect others to scoff at if its coming from a provider under her real name. Sometimes I just don't want people thinking I'm looking for kudos or trying to find a backdoor way to advertise, so I roll out an alias. But yes, there are times when I want to tell it like it REALLY is, and don't need the public excoriation that at times accompanies a strong dose of reality. On this thread though, no alias required, I was able to say my piece rather amicably

I'm sure many frequent posters here have received or even written angry PMs to others.  Maybe we've even said things that we later regretted.  But we should all be able to feel that "what happens in Vegas stays in Vegas."

I actually think you are a pretty sharp dude, and you seem to be pretty reasonable for the most part, but YOUR way of seeing and dealing with things, you like to push onto others as though YOUR way is the best.

Where was it again, that you found the golden lamp, or the hidden rainbow, where a voice eminated and told you that your way was best again???


"Confidentiality should only be breached if there is a reasonable expectation that the material well-being of others will be affected by it."

Sounds like you're reading from a certain rule-book.

Are YOU the only one privy to these gems, or are us lower level beings allowed to peep it as well? lol


Again bro, I think you are a pretty sharp dude, and you DO preach maturity in a sense, so I give you that.....

but there are different ways to go about things, and what might be mature to you, might not be to another.


Just my .02

My post wasn't meant to be apologetic.  What I did was immature.  But I'm not sorry that I did it.  She was immature too.  So what?  It's an immature business, really: "Give me money and I'll touch your pee-pee."  That's life.  Let's move on.

maybe it isn't y'alls faults...........


I mean, that's the society we live in today -  where people cease to be human beings, and express their selves and have their own personalities, and instead try to have a contest on who handles things in the most politically correct way.


I also love how folk are so quick to tell a man -  "oh just forget it".


I wonder, if it's cool to tell a WOMAN to "just forget it", when she's screaming and yelling about sexual harassment in the workplace, but I digress....


There aren't any "rules", and if this woman took it upon herself to talk some shit and piss you off, then I personally have ZERO problems with you making the rest of us aware of it.

I think it's good for the community, and also good for her.

I have a motto, and that's always strive and fight and shine the light of truth.

Personally, I'm not into playing "secret squirrel" and trying to keep things hidden....  but of course, that's just me.


As for those who take it upon their selves to act as though they are fit to judge, well that just makes me crack up.

Dude asks for opinions, and folks (especially ladies - big surprise lol) say things like "I thought you were a better man than that".  ROFL

MY response to that would be -  "bitch, who gives a flying FUCK what you think of me on an anonymous message board?".

Talk about an episode of "Dynasty".............


Man please, SO much drama, and yet folk think that they are "the mature ones".....

and I'M a "know-it-all"?  By comparison, I guess so.

As for my ideas about confidentiality, look at this thread again, many others agree with me even if they didn't use my wording.  Since when does expressing an articulate, reasonable argument amount to arrogance?  Even if I was arrogant, it doesn't mean I'm wrong.  Please don't try to back away now by saying you never used the word "arrogant" that would just be cheap, and I don't want to have to cut and paste your posts endlessly to make the case.

I know there are different ways to go about things.  Mine is one of them.  Why is it that I'm preaching and not you, or anyone else YOU agree with?  How's this for "pushing" an idea: "Things are out of hand these days, and the dudes who just lay back and let these women run wild, are not part of the solution."  Where did you get access to this "solution" and what exactly is it?

A lot of people here are pretty opinionated, including you, and we all try to support our positions with some degree of rationality.  When you would single me out while you are constantly making generalities about women, I can only encourage you to check your own double-standards.

Sorry, but if someone, anyone sends me an unsolicited PM calling me out, attacking me, or whatever, I feel no obligation to treat that correspondence as confidential.

As I said before, I was going to let it drop, her opinion of New Yorkers, or of me for that matter means nothing to me. she has proven by her words what type of person she is. I still stand behind my and Aug5's right to share with the community her true nature.

In short, if your comments won't stand the light of day, then keep them to yourself.

I agree with everything you said, but after awhile it gets exhausting pointing out everyone's double standard.  Maybe, as Bill Maher once said, there's two standards because there's two genders.  I'm learning to live with it.  But I'll tell you this, if the tables were turned, no one would be calling Amanda immature or childish.  In our society, men have to grow up but women get to be children forever if they so choose.  It's sad, really.

First, "I think it's good for the community, and also good for her."

Then, "As for those who take it upon their selves to act as though they are fit to judge, well that just makes me crack up."

Luckily YOU'RE not an elitist, who feels fit to judge what is right for people and what is not.

I could write another post pointing out your various argumentative and logical fallacies but I'll stick to one: using buzzwords like "politically correct" or using "elitist" imprecisely have the effect of producing emotional responses rather than intelligent discussion.

I'm beginning to wonder if it's deliberate or whether I'm giving you too much credit.

ABSOLUTELY RIGHT     (EOM)

People are starving in India, so send them your leftovers. People are terrorizing other countries, so send over the weapons (just kidding, of course). People are anorexic because that's what they think men and women want. There's a quick answer to everything but it doesn't mean it's right. Shall I keep going? Hell, no!  That's my point.

Can we get layed now?

Hugs,
Ciara

Who do you think you are going over everybodys posts like your Perry Mason or Matlock investigating an unsolved crime.

You have a history of presenting your opinions as facts as stated by Nitscape. Nobody that participates in the discussion board takes your advice.    


Now you shall give me credit.

shaka700

"Dude asks for opinions, and folks (especially ladies - big surprise lol) say things like "I thought you were a better man than that".  ROFL

MY response to that would be -  "bitch, who gives a flying FUCK what you think of me on an anonymous message board?".

Intersting. First point, thus far, only three women have even responded to this thread, while there are more than a dozen respondents. Looks like we "especially" ladies are in the significant minority here.

Since I am the one in particular who wrote "I thought you were a better man than that", I will say I stand by that comment, but will add that I've clearly learned differently tonight.

To you Nitescape, I would never make such a statement. You've shown your colors before, so I would never have made the mistake of thinking you were much a man in the first place. Clearly, I was correct in my conclusion, because no real man would stoop to "bitch who gives a flying fuck what you think of me". The only kind of men who would be that crude and immature are the kind of men who would bitch slap their hos when she forgets to open his beer before handing it to him. Thank you for confirming tonight what I already suspected about you. But of course, you don't care what I think, so it doesn't really matter anways. But I'm sure a nasty response will soon be on its way, even though you don't give a "flying fuck" what I think. *sweet smile*

Signed,
The Cheeky Tart (from my view up here on the high road)

Nobody has a legal duty to keep something private solely because another person wants them to, or uses a forum back channel.

If you want to argue the moral issue, obviously, everybody has their own morals.  You could argue a moral duty not to use a private channel to annoy, bullyrag or harass another person out of public view or criticism.

Personally, I would make your choice to walk away, considering that there's nothing to win here.  But I would be the 1st to say YMMV.

If you ask me, he's in the same place he was before he posted it. And for this lesson of "Schmo Eye for the Elite Guy" I've learned that spinning your wheels in the mud is a real macho thing to do and gets boners from other schmos.

-- Modified on 10/6/2007 11:59:12 PM

have to turn to an argument? Amandita simply was attempting to engage in a conversation. That's all.

You can choose to reply with something playful,  witty, informational or be mean spirited. From an economic persceptive I can understand her frustrations. A hotel room the last time I was in New York was $300-400 a night at the Marriott. Your city is expensive and determining a functional expenditure/profit ratio is only wise.

I guess the way I see Amandita in her thread was that she was hurt and she responded accordingly.

-- Modified on 10/7/2007 12:08:42 AM

Dude (and I guess I need to use that word loosely), why so defensive?

What got your panties all in a bunch??


I made my point, and if it hit home, don't try to pretend that everyone is the same! haha


I think you agree, that you DO think that you know better than others.....

so if that bothers you, don't try to twist reality, into EVERYONE being like that.

It's a difference between being "opinionated" and ELITIST.

BIG difference there guy.


Put the debate book down, and stop trying to justify your arrogance.

If you're comfortable being arrogant, then don't be defensive about it.

If you're NOT comfortable being arrogant, then make a change and take some responsibility, instead of straining to find some tortured means to point your finger back at somebody else.


You're a good debater, but the problem is -  

NO ONE IS TRYING TO DEBATE YOU. lol


At least not lil ole me.  *wink*

What's worse though, is the elitist/metrosexual dudes, who are trying to boost themselves at the expense of you and me.


Smooching the rear-ends of women and being good little boys, while they join in the finger pointing and the brow-beating.

I'm sick of it, and these days I really appreciate men who have balls, rather than a vagina.

Again and again and AGAIN, you strain strain strain to point your finger back at somebody else, because they turned a mirror on you...........


What is deliberate, is me coming after you, for coming after others.

I get SICK of people who are always judging and finger pointing, and that's why I even took the time to address you.

I gave you respect and credit for your attributes though, but could you take it like a man and take responsibility for yourself????

No, you have to act like a little girl, and lash out into a tantrum.


Dude, you're straining so hard, you've lost your mind...

"I think it's good for the community, and also good for her."

That is called an opinion.

I stated what I think.


That is a BIG big difference, from what you do.


Again, I don't have any problem if your opinion doesn't agree with mine..............   but what I DO have a problem with, is when you speak down to people, as though you have an inherent right to.

Plainly?   You are arrogant/elitist.

"Buzz words"?

How so, because they shocked you? lol


No my brother, those are just words, and I used them because I believe them to be accurate ones.  

Humble pie is a dish best served cold.

"Since I am the one in particular who wrote "I thought you were a better man than that", I will say I stand by that comment, but will add that I've clearly learned differently tonight."


I won't speak for others, but will say this simple and plain -

don't give a FUCK

"To you Nitescape, I would never make such a statement. You've shown your colors before, so I would never have made the mistake of thinking you were much a man in the first place."

Judgment 1.............




" Clearly, I was correct in my conclusion, because no real man would stoop to "bitch who gives a flying fuck what you think of me"."

Judgment 2.................  

No real man would stoop.........?   lmao




" The only kind of men who would be that crude and immature are the kind of men who would bitch slap their hos when she forgets to open his beer before handing it to him."

Judgment 3, with a fantasy created presumption thrown in for good measure...........

Lady, you've really got some baggage.







" Thank you for confirming tonight what I already suspected about you."

Judgment 4...................









"But of course, you don't care what I think, so it doesn't really matter anways. But I'm sure a nasty response will soon be on its way, even though you don't give a "flying fuck" what I think. *sweet smile*"

Pathetic attempt to try to get inside my head and upset me. lmao

and no, I really DON'T give a fuck what you think!

You don't know me (never will).  

But don't think that you can try to use your judgments to control me, and what I might say or do. *wink*

You might be able to pull that off with some metrosexual mambie-pambie type dudes, but I'm too secure and real for that.


What I said OBVIOUSLY hit home, or you wouldn't have even taken the time to try to pull all this judgment tactics out of your ass.

Now if you have any opinions, by all means feel free to express them....    but if you're gonna try to judge and point your finger at others, don't get hurt if it comes back at ya!

Or in other words and simpler terms  -

DON'T DISH IT OUT IF YOU CAN'T TAKE IT.

I love it when you remind us at these dramatic junctures of what this board should really be about.

If we could only replace every squabble with creative foreplay and three orgasms.

I'm sorry, but this has to be one of the funniest posts I've read in a long time. I'll try to keep this brief if I can.

Lets see if I have this straight so far. Aug5 ASKED for opinions. Opinions being something everyone has, and something everyone is entitled to. I offered mine. No different from the dozen or more people who responded. Unlike a few, I was even bold enough to use my real handle.

Now, YOU Nitescape, felt compelled to mention my reply follwed with "Bitch, I don't give a fuck". Lets break this down, shall we? By saying you don't care about something, the implication is that since you don't care, the person should shut up. That is the next logical conclusion following "I don't give a fuck". After all, if you don't care, then it is clearly a waste of your time and mine for me to continue. So the first thing I'm curious about is why you feel the need to attempt to shut me down. Or anyone else for that matter, since I've seen posts very similar to this directed at others in the past. Furhtermore, you imply with your post that your opinion somehow DOES matter. After all, if your opinion didn't matter, would it not also be a waste of YOUR time to even bother posting about how stingy you are with your fucks, that you won't you give one? Of course it would. Since you were willing to take that time, one must assume that you actually think YOUR opinion matters more than others. So I'm curious what led you to that conclusion. Read this paragraph over a few times. It may take a while, but if you apply yourself, you will get the gist of it.

Now then, lets move on to other topics. Your latest post seemed to be focused on my "judgements" as you label them. Judgement 1, judgement 2, and so on. Why exactly is that wrong? We use judgement every day sweetheart. When I am standing in the grocery store, I use my judgement to decide between laundry detergent A and laundry detergent B. In your case, I assume your judgement helps you to decide which beer stained wife beater has the least obvious body odor when getting dressed in the morning. And yes, here again we have a judgement on my part, based upon the neanderthal-like tendencies you display on this board. If you don't like it, tough.

Now then lets see. Oh yes. I liked the response to Judgement #3 in which you refer to my "fantasy based on a presumption". You appear to be baffled as to where I could have come up with such a presumption. I'm happy to enlighten you. To put it simply, if you talk like a pimp, that is what others will assume you are. When your powers of communication are limited to "Bitch I don't give a flying fuck what you think", are you honestly shocked that others assume you to be the class equivalent of a common street thug who's vocabulary is limited to such trash? Sorry sweetie, you talk like trash so that is what I'm going to assume you are. You did make a half hearted attempt in this latest post to raise your IQ ever so slightly, but I'm afraid you still come up abysmally short.

I noted with interest though that not once, but twice you make referrences to attempts on my part to "get inside your head" and to "control you". Ironically, you also stated that I have issues. Perhaps you ought to consider the possibility of turning the mirror on yourself for a moment. Merely a suggestion mind you. But you might profit from considering why you would think that a post on a discussion board in which I merely expressed my own opinion of you in any way resembles an attempt to control you. You are perfectly free to present yourself as a woman hating, gutter mouthed, two bit thug if that is what you wish to do. I am also free to respond to you when you attack me, as I have done. Do recall sweetheart, that not only did I not direct a post at you until you directed a comment about me, but search these message boards carefully, you will find very few responses directed to you from me. I found one in the last 6 months. The reason is that your posts rarely contain anything worth responding to, and are often so laden with misogynistic angst, that they are best ignored anyways.

Now, last but not least, I realize that I clearly a hit nerve with my response to you, and that this time I have jumped up and down on that same nerve repeatedly. So you can feel free to respond since we both know you can't help yourself. And please do continue to protest that you don't care, as you did in your follow-up response, when we both know that obviously you do. If you really, honeslty, truly didn't care, you would not have felt compelled to say so in your initial post, and you certainly wouldn't have gone to the trouble of posting not one, but TWO responses to me, much less all the laborious cutting and pasting you did. Kudos on that by the way, you added a few IQ points for your knowledge of how to cut and paste.

But for my part, I'm done with this thread. I made my original post to Aug, my point was well taken, and we responded to one another amicably. I've had a bit of fun with you tonight, but now I've had my say and I'm done with it. You may now commence with your final round of chest thumping.

Signed,
The Cheeky Tart (still perched upon my high road)

I vote we send cierra to th next peace talks and when things get out of hand, she gets to spray them with whipped cream and then lick it off,
, shrugs, hey its worth a shot, right?

sez:  Everybody bend over!

I see your point, and realize that there are gender issues and double standards that abound on both sides. However, I don't think personally that this has to be a gender issue. I think both parties were clearly acting out of anger, but I agree that Amandita's actions were immature and unprofessional. That said, Aug5 said some pretty harsh things back. There are men and women both who make mistakes, and they all need to be called out on it. Just because I am a woman, I would hope to be held to the same standard as any man and called out on my shit when I am wrong. That said, I like to think I have the self control and the maturity not to degrade myself and others with senseless name calling and provocative messages. Let's all try that, shall we?

You can judge my behavior as a human being, and as a provider and a professional, but please don't play the gender card- I'll be judged by the same standards as anyone else and take full responsibility for it.

No hard feelings, just sharing my two cents worth.

XoXo,
Marea

calling people pansies and pussies and little girls every other sentence really does not lend any merit to your own credibility.

-- Modified on 10/7/2007 11:53:29 AM

Everyone could legally own water pistols, everyone could get a job (not based on their color but on their performance), we'd start feeding our own children in America and place toys in their meal bags that are better than McDonalds, all politicians must spike their hair with mouse. Those who part it on the side (like Donald Trump) would immediately be taken to a hairdresser for repair, anyone using slander against another person would be immediately tarred and feathered, anyone who talks about sex would immediately be whipped creamed and eaten.

Hugs,
Ciara

-- Modified on 10/7/2007 12:05:08 PM

At least he didn't call me a "poopyhead."  That would have really crushed me.

Chivalry is a practice that never goes out of favor. I'm old school I do not like women being beaten up verbally or physically. Do I agree with Amandita, of course not.

I just know that as human beings when we hurt we often lash out in anger and say things we regret later.

This whole "thinking" thing seems to be new to you.  The best you can do is keep working at it.  At some point you'll be able to shed lame argumentative techniques like: relying on stereotypes, challenging people's sexual orientation, regurgitating clichés, accusing others of behavior that you engage in, invoking emotional responses. You'll actually be able to deal with the substance of a position. One day, you might even lose your own insecurities and stop accusing people of "arrogance" because they can construct a proper argument.

So keep working at it.  Really.  That thinking thing will kick in at some point.  It's good to have goals.

I wish everyone would stop talking about this woman.

Things were said that shouldn't have been said

Amandita's old news. LEt's talk about something more pleasant.

I personally don't like to see others fighting and name-calling.

he is right, but unfortunately FEMINISM has landed...


Chivalry is not a one way street my friend.


You can't ask men to be gentleman, without asking women to be ladies.


Sorry, but it's not fair for women to have it both ways, and guys really need to get their heads around this.

That's exactly what I've been thinking.  If women want to get into the ring and mix it up with us, they have to understand that chivalry will not be part of the equation.  Otherwise what's the point?  They'd just win every argument by default!  Chivalry itself is a sexist concept, if you think about it.  In the modern era, chivalry is still practiced because we don't believe in "kicking someone when they're down," or "adding insult to injury."  The chivalrous man is just being a "good sport," because he views womanhood as an unfortunate circumstance for some reason.  He treats women with more respect than men, because he believes women to be weak and inferior.  Either that, or he's just trying to get laid.  And yet women always complain that chivalry is dead.  Please.

SHE doesn't respect peoples' privacy, so why should I?  She didn't respect Pajada's privacy when she said one of her friends told her he was lousy in bed, right?  Like I said, I'm not sorry, and I don't believe I was wrong!

both Ciaras at the same time.  Where is halfway between Phoenix and Buffalo?

Sometimes I wonder if Dragonfly is really a woman.


I have no problems with respect, but I can't stand when people let others get away with things, but then want to hold you accountable.

Double standards suck.

Women allow men to treat them like this.

See, it's all good to consider them "the weaker sex", if you are serving their purposes.

As soon as a person comes along who ISN'T serving their purpose?   Then it's all about "respect me as an equal".

That's a false notion in itself, because it's a misnomer.  There is no equality.  Men and women are not equals.  They are entirely different not only physically, but their entire natures are different.

Striving to make us "equals", is another gem of left-wing political correctness.

There can be love and respect, without equality.  


Anyways, what really drives me crazy are the dudes who perpetuate the double-standard, and strive to pose as "more-evolved", by pointing fingers and brow-beating other men like you and me.


Just trying to increase awareness......


Others will strive to hold men accountable and take responsibility for everything.  The women, and the weasel dudes who try to play the game and are little back-stabbers.

Here they come, I can hear them beneath the ground.

For civil discourse to begin it has to begin somewhere. Women are not weaker they are different. One difference is that men are physically superior. All the feminist attitudes and "Charlie Angel" films cannot change that fact of nature.

Women can be cruel as well I know but then that is when you can decide as a man to go down to their level or rise above it. Now it's credo I have I do not strike at women. If chivalry is a sexist concept then I am guilty.

In regards to your commentary your statement of chivalry does have merit. In my experience to receive the affection of a lovely lady generally requires charm.



-- Modified on 10/7/2007 10:21:15 PM

Personally, I still believe in old-school values, and treating a woman like a lady, and like it when a woman treats me like a man, but at least if a woman is fair, and doesn't expect a double-standard, I can respect her for that.

there are many women these days, who reject any form of chivalry, unless it's simply some servant level ish.

Like, if you want to lick their boots and blow their head up, or if you simply want to give give give, sure, they will gladly take take take..........

but to expect any REAL consideration or respect in return, is wishful thinking.

You may get some fake Hollywood level appreciation, but many many women these days, are simply "out for theirs" - period.

All the charm in the world, ain't gonna change that.

You don't have to trust me on this, but I've been down that road MANY many times, and I've been told I am extremely charming when I want to be......   it never changed anything with certain types.


I generally agree with your value and notion, but simply saying that in this day and age, it's a new landscape -   and frankly I personally think it sucks, but then again, I can see why it's come about, cause a lot of dudes in the past were really exploitive and abusive.

I don't think feminism is the answer at all, but I understand why it came about.

Still, I'm not going to cater to it, and cease being a man.

One think I KNOW, and that is being a new-age metrosexual is NOT what I want to be.

and rude behavior that is projected in today's society by both sexes.  As an aside if a clerk err customer representative says "thank you", after I patronize a retail establishment it is such a shock; I reply " your very welcome and have a pleasant day".

Believe me I have been hurt by women. It is the biggest hurt of them all and they can do it without a punch but with a pen. In the Army we put these girlfriend's pictures, letters etc. on the wall of shame. I will not tell you what we did with the wall of shame. Let's just say it's rated for mature audiences.

We found these actions to be exceedingly good therapy for us who had been emasculated. It was our own way to hold our heads up and fight another day. We knew when we got back to the civilian world being angry would not help us in the job market or win the favor of a lovely lady i.e. get laid.

-- Modified on 10/8/2007 11:12:50 PM

Thanks for sharing your wisdom.



I don't know what's going on with today's women and society.....    I mean I do, but I don't understand it.

Many (if not most or all) women today, don't appreciate or value a "good man".

Heck, if they did, I wouldn't even be a "hobbyist"!!

After breaking up with my ex, I figured this would be good when I needed some sex, and so I could just focus on my business goals....

I was very loyal to my ex, and would have done anything for her and to make things work.  

She however, felt too good for me, or too good to settle down with one man, because of all the attention she receives and desires/craves/enjoys.

This seems to be the mantra of today’s women (many/most of them).