Except at the extremes of high and low, we have all learned through both experience and in Econ 101 that what somethings "costs" really isn't the price, it is what you have to do to secure the funds to purchase it. Thus "the cost" varies from person to person.

For me, a typical session with an escort "costs" about 1/3 to 1/2 day of take home pay. 3 to 4 hours worth of work.

I consider this to be about as much as I am willing to pay. There are things I have paid more for (I own watches that have cost me a weeks pay) and there are things I would never pay that much for (I wouldn't pay more than an hour or so of my labor for a round of golf, and I *LIKE* golf...)

Some of this is of course driven by how much you HAVE to pay for something. It is also driven by your own personal sense of what is reasonable, and what is not.

So...what do you guys "pay" (in terms of your own labor) for a typical session with an escort for yourself?

as little as possible...LOL

Okay folks, we all know you get what you pay for. You can buy a Timex Watch for $$ or a Rolex Watch for $$$$$$$$...both are watches, and both will tell the time...but one is more valuable than the other...right?

Same goes for providers. You can get a Streetwalker for $$ or a Courtesan for $$$ to $$$$ (or even $$$$$)...both provide a service, do you like your bj's disease infested in the backseat of your car with crack whore or an amazing gfe with a real "lady".

Every city in the nation will have different prices for providers (Streetwalker to Courtesan). I'm sure providers in NY City earn more than providers in New Mexico (or other States that are not popular tourist destinations). I'm sure caucasian providers earn more than african american providers. I'm sure Model Material providers earn more than "rolly polly little bat faced girls". What you pay all depends on where you are.

Let me just say now that I'm seeking advice more than complaining (though I admit to "a little" complaining) but I made my bed and I'm prepared to lie in it.

That said...

I moved from Las Vegas to Northern California. In Las Vegas my rates were $300 (or $200 when I ran specials). That is extremely LOW for Vegas, but quite affordable for the locals I mostly catered to. Here in Northern California these gentlemen see little distinction between Streetwalkers and Internet Providers...in fact their most popular escort board here has a STREETWALKER Section (Email me and I'll give you the link - [email protected]). Model Material here goes for $200 to $250...everyone else (African American or Caucasian) has to settle for $175 to $100 (or less if her rates are negotiable).

A "DEAR FRIEND" was concerned that my new rates reflected that I was a "quantity" provider....PLEASE! I've had four appointments in 3 weeks...FOUR APPOINTMENTS! I get plenty of calls (about 8 to 12 per day - and plenty of Emails, about 6 to 8 per day), but my rates (which are ridiculously low) are STILL considered high here...AND I ABSOLUTELY REFUSE TO LOWER THEM ANY FURTHER. AAAAAAAAAAAAAAHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHGGGGGGGGGGGG!!!!!!!!!!!!

The fact that I am "Cute as hell", Never worked the streets, give the ultimate warm and affectionate gfe, have reviews, that I am alcohol/drug and disease free MEANS NOTHING TO THESE GENTLEMEN, none of that is even a factor.

So not only do I have to compete with other Internet providers (300+ at last count) but I have to compete with Streetwalkers too. Needless to say "I'm not amused"!  The Top, Drop Dead Gorgeous, Model Material Ladies who live here go on tour, that's the only way they can get a decent fee. I may have to start touring myself! :0)~

So, I'm REALLY interested to see what you gentlemen say. "MY" questions for you are:

1. Do "looks" really factor in in your decision to hire that provider (i.e: the better she looks the more you are willing to pay).

2. Unless she's a total dog, what ELSE is it that makes you unwilling to pay her fee? What is it that makes gentlemen want to haggle?

3. What qualities do you consider in a provider? (e.g: without using price as a factor, would you pick an "average" looking provider over a gorgeous provider and why?

Sable
xoxo

ps. Any providers and/or hobbyists have any advice? (other than move back to Vegas...that's not an option)

Depends if you are talking pretax or post tax.

To keep $1 I need to earn about $1.5 or more. So you would have to figure out your post tax hourly rate in order to tell how long you really have to work to pay for play.

sable, sweetie,
cut and paste this over on the provider board,  we can help you O so much better than here...
hugs,
Nicole

Okay, I'm going to be really really anal right now and make a quick correction.  The economic "cost" is actually opportunity cost, which is not what you do to earn the money, but rather what you forego.  In other terms, the cost is not the 3 hours you worked to make the money, but rather the watch or the round of golf you could have purchased with that money.

Despite this, I really like this thread because it brings up a point which i'm curious about.  I have never paid less than $300/hr for a provider, because I thought that I could not get a "quality" person for less.  Is this wrong?  Should I just take a leap of faith and go cheaper?

For me, the cost of the provider is significantly higher than MyLifeAsMe if you want to measure it in the number of hours worked.  It's almost half a weeks pay.  And before anybody calls me dumb, in my self-defense, I feel that for the most part the experiences I have had were well worth it.  In fact, I'm going to be putting down slightly less than a months pay for an all nighter, unless my bigger brain kicks in =)

(I hope not)

Regards

I'v payed up to $400/hr but that is rare. Most of the time I tap out at $300/hr. Latley I'v been using my little black book and paying a lot less.....

Ventana

Sable:

Move to the LA area! I wish that I could explain why a hot looking young woman like you is struggling at $175. That’s just ridiculous. I would think that your communication skills alone would land more business than that. Would your business really increase if you lowered the price?

That being said, here are my answers to your questions.

1.Good looks are not the only factor to paying more for an appointment. Good looks are important in making the decision too see anyone at any price. I will usually pay more if the girl has good reviews or we click on the phone.

2.Conversely, a bad phone attitude will terminate my decision to go forward. I don’t understand why anyone would “haggle” over your price. That can only lead to a session with an unhappy provider and that kind of defeats the purpose.

3.I hate to admit this, but I am a shallow bastard and the first quality on my list is what the girl looks like. An “average” looking provider would not be on my list (but what is average?) unless recommended by my fellow TER members.


Just my $.02

1)  Yes, looks to factor into my decision to hire a provider. I normally choose someone that if I saw them on the street, in a store, or whereever, I would be attracted to them. This, of course, doesn't mean I am only attracted to "model" looks, as sometimes the eyes or smile can be what does it for me. However, there are limits to what I will pay and appearances don't necessarily factor into this, but there is some flexibility.

2)  Attitude, either on the phone or in emails, can end my desire right there. I don't haggle fees, period.

3)  Again, attitude, either on the phone or in emails, can stimulate my desire to see someone as much as what I think of her appearances. Hand in hand with attitude, is the personality of the lady. I am much more willing to see someone average looking with a great personality, than a gorgeous one with none.

This actually may have been a good topic on its own. Hope this helps.

pt

Here's a general rule of thumb I use.  I would be hesistant to pay a provider more than what an above average attorney, doctor, or top executive charges an hour.  

Generally speaking, a FBSM is anywhere from $ 120 - $ 160/hour  (all inclusive).  

For FS/Escort I think a good range is $ 200 - $ 300 /hour.  Anything above that has to be for special favors or because the provider is a famous porn star or something.

Now these rates also vary from city to city.  On either coast these are a fair representation.  

Overseas, things are different.  Canada is more friendlier in their prices for hobbyists.  As is Amsterdam, Rio, Germany, France ...

If I want model material with a gfe feel to it,it's 400 and not one penny over. I don't do that 400 scene offten. In L.A. there's some hot Russians that you can have a good time with for 200. I'll go that route when I'm low. But my regular is 300 so as you can see there is a wide range from which I can choose from, depending on the mood. I don't negotiate, well once I did and that didn't go well. But in my "black book" I have a wide range($) to choose from. A dinner/date ran me 700 for about 5 hours. Now keep in mind that L.A. is different then say Jackson Miss.
Late

A typical 4 hour session
equals about 1-2
hour of work time for me,
which I think is pretty fair.

You guys missed the point…..

I wasn’t looking to get into a discussion about rates…that has been done, and besides, it doesn’t really shed any new light on the discussion.

The problem with a discussion of rates is that $300 to me might be A LOT more dear than $300 to a guy who clear a cool million a year. And, on the other end of the spectrum, $300 is probably less dear to me than it is to a fellow who earns an honest living as a hard working blue collar guy, clearing $60K or so a year.

What I was looking to get at is how much “effort” do you have to put in doing what YOU do for a living to afford that same hour of pleasure that I to work 3 or 4 hours to finance.  As I said, I just simply couldn’t justify more than that…4 hours…a half a day or so of work, for one hour with an escort. Hey…that is me. And it isn’t so much because I am cheap…as I mentioned, there are other things I spend A LOT more money on, because those things are important to me. Not even remotely more practical, though I will say the things I tend to spend large coin on are as a rule more enduring. But, as I am sure more than one of you thought when you read it, $3,000 for a watch in a world of $150 Seiko’s to some people is just plan stupid. It’s My Life. Now, I want to know how much YOU guys think the sessions are worth to YOU? Is it worth, as one guy commented, a week worth of labor for one hour of romance?

A typical nice GFE escort will cost me one day's GROSS pay for an hour of entertainment. You can see why I generally prefer the cheaper MP route, once I have found a good regular girl to make appointments with.

Now, that being said, if I could afford it I would be much happier to pay for higher priced escorts. I don't really have a problem with the higher dollar figures. I know you get what you pay for. Sadly, I just can't afford to pay for the lifestyle I'd like to live LOL!

If someone has to work a week for
an hour of pleasure = he can't afford
this hobby.  Go to a trailer park
and go hunt there instead.
Just my 2 cents.

Since you ask, here are all the factors that I consider, when deciding how much I am willing to pay:

1) Looks
2) Age
3) DFK
4) Other skills
5) Enthusiasm & Creativity
6) Conversation & Comfort level
7) The elusive 'GFE' factor (different for each guy).
8) Does she tell me what she likes, and helps me do whatever makes her feel good so we can both have a good time?
9) Role playing

These are the qualities, but they definately are not in order...and the order would be different for trying a new provider vs. seeing a girls a second time.

When deciding to visit an escort for the first time, looks definately play a big factor. For one thing, I am GENERALLY more attracted to Asian women, and Blondes. Now, that's not an exclusive fetish, and there are plenty of brunettes and redheads I find attractive, but blondes and Asian women will tend to catch my eye first. And, the "cuteness" of the woman's face plays a HUGE role, more so than her body i.e. I'll take a woman with a pretty face, a friendly smile, and small breasts over a woman with a swimsuit model body and a face that would stop a clock.

If I read a hundred great reviews of a girl, but her looks just didn't float my boat, then I wouldn't see her. Guys are visual creatures and I don't care how great your technique is, if I'm not entertained by watching you do it, I'm not going to think it is worthwhile paying a lot of money for it. I can get unattractive horney women free from chat rooms, if that was what I was looking for.

BUT, looks aren't the most important thing. The most important think is kissing. If a review says the woman gives DFK, well, she definately moves up the list and I am willing to pay more for that. For me, kissing is almost more fun than sex, because my wife doesn't like DKF. So I'd rather spend my time with a woman who gives excellent passionate kisses for half the session while we just "grope" each other, than a girl who doesn't kiss but spends an hour in athletic positions and multiple pops.

Now, when it comes to deciding whether to see a girl again, I am MUCH more concerned with how the first session went than her looks. Did she make me feel comfortable, did she seem to enjoy our time together and genuinly want to see me again, did she laugh at my jokes, did she take the lead and demonstrate some unusual bendy-ness or positions I don't get to do at home? Did she kiss me passionately, or try to avoid my kisses? Did the session end with a nice massage, some more kisses, and a request to come see her again, or did she tell me to shower and lead me out as fast as possible?

Now, on the rare occasion when I have met a girl who made me feel young again, who made me feel alive in the bedroom like I haven't for years, who gave me her cell phone so I can reach her direct any time...well, those are the girls I will see time and time again, even if it takes me a lot longer to save up to visit.

Whereas, I once saw a girl who was, without a doubt, the most beautiful creature I have ever seen. A true one in a billion goddess. And man, was she cold. She made it very obvious right at the door that she thought she was doing me a favor by spending time with me. Guess what. I walked out, and paid her for only the short amount of time I spent talking to her, pro-rated from her hourly fee. Sorry to waste your time, but no thanks.

As for haggling...well, I've never done that. If you think you are worth something, fine. I'll either agree and pay the price, or not. But that's only because I can't afford to see someone enough to be a "regular".

If I could afford to be a "regular", and do a few sessions a month, I might ask if I could negotiate a slightly lower volume rate. Hell, that's just good business. In my business, we charge our regular clients much less than people who only come to us sparingly. I figure if I charge a regular $225/hour for 20 hours of work, it's better than $300/hour for 4 hours of work. I prefer the consistent revenue over higher hourly fees, and there are certain clients I like to work with so I want to keep them. If I didn't do that, I'd be out of business, because my clients will find people who will work that way. I don't know if providers feel the same way, but it stands to reason that some would, so it certainly doesn't hurt to ask.

In fact, I don't know why so many providers here get so pissed off about people haggling. I'm not offended if my regular clients ask for a discount or the occasional freebie or favor. I'd consider them stupid businessmen if they didn't. So why don't providers feel the same way about their customers? Sure, get upset at the new guy who has never seen you and wants you to drop your fee. That's fine. But why get pissed at the regular who wants a volume discount, or who wants to stay an extra hour for free every once and a while? It doesn't make sense, unless you are just too busy and don't need the business. Those are the kind of perks that will keep customers coming back instead of going to see the flavor-of-the-month.

I could see myself spending up to two days worth of salary, but probably not more, for ANY service; this is irrespective of the monetary cost, speaking strictly in terms of how long I would have to toil in order to afford this service.  For example, if I made $1000 per day, I could easily part with $2000 for a provider who seems to be worth the money, although I wouldn't be able to maintain this extravagance on a regular basis (certainly not weekly).  I feel that in your case, $200 to $400 seems reasonable, based on what you seem to be earning, and provided that you not do this more than once or twice weekly.  
  I think in general, however, that it is seldom really worth it.  For the most part, these are fairly expensive services that we're discussing here, they clearly weren't designed to be "lasting experiences," and the providers generally want to conclude their business with you as soon as possible, thus compounding the brevity of the services.  Granted, $100 doesn't seem like a great deal of money to most, but the days of a "quality" $100 session with a provider are long gone (at least in my neck of the woods -- I'm a New Yorker).  So now we're talking about $200 as a minimum fee for a decent, pleasant, and attractive provider, and, even at that, you still have to figure in transportation costs for incall (I HATE going into Manhattan just for this).  Outcall might be cheaper, but if you are dealing with an agency, you always run the risk of not recieving an acceptable (or accurately described) girl; outcall is practically a non-issue for me because I don't live alone and its not really practical.  
  But I digress, lets assume you have found a real New York bargain -- an incall provider who charges $200; is caucasian and not foreign-born; seems clean, attractive, and respectful; lives in an accessible, pleasant location either in or close to the suburbs; who doesn't rush you (obviously within reason); and whom you are POSITIVE has never undergone a sex-change operation and is 100% naturally female (don't laugh)-- lets assume you found this...you'd probably be deluded, but lets say this is what you managed to find.  The point is that we still paid $200 for it, the experience is relatively brief (probably 30 to 70 minutes), and you will still want more tomorrow...maybe even later that night depending on your specifics such as age and health.  I suppose that it is possible to find a provider who is worth her weight in gold, just like its possible to find a hobbyist who doesn't engage in his hobby regularly, for whom the loss of $200 or $300 is infrequent enough to be inconsequential.  Thats the bottom line, really -- if you can find one or two "special" providers and see them with moderation, then, I suppose it'll be worth it, if only because you will have enjoyed yourself and won't be going broke by seeing a different (disappointing) girl every night.  Whether or not I've appropriately responded to your question, I feel as though this was truly cathartic, in dealing with my own problems

sad but true, I am in the same situation as channel. if money
were not such an issue then I too would go for the upscale but
being that money is an issue and I have to get what I pay for
and still afford  to live.

So, what you're saying is

A. You aren't quite sure what your clientele wants, and you'd like to ask us.
B. You know that you don't provide what your clientele THINKS they want.
C. You are failing to get the clientele that you'd like.
D. You think that lowering your prices is demeaning.

I think there are more emotional issues here, than economic ones. I won't psychoanalyze you, except to say that YOUR emotional wellbeing is very very very seldom in the mind of someone who is considering buying a bit of time with you. I don't know if it "should" or "should not" be in his mind.

To answer your questions.

1. How much of a part do looks play. 100%, as long as her service is reputed to be above about a 7. It is the ONLY thing, I think, that most men consider. The very careful consumers whom we have here on the TER boards may think differently. They represent 1/10th of 1% of the available market. Looks matter. Period. Stop being in denial.
2. I would not pay the fee of a very attractive woman if ...
a. She were reputed to give bad (below about 7) service.
b. She seemed to be hit-or-miss (some 10s, some 3s, in service).
c. She were hard to get ahold of and other women were available
d. Her price were too high for my budget.
3. Question 3 is just a rephrased version of question 1. Here's the answer again: looks matter. Period. Stop being in denial.

Interesting...just the sort of response I was looking for....

1/2 week for you, versus 1/2 day for me. You say that you are more than happy with that "cost" however, and that it has been well worth it.

I wonder what the differences (besides the obvious) are between you and I (and / or between all of us hobbyist as a whole) that creates this disparity. For me, I know that since I actually have a GF, and getting laid isn't a problem, it is pretty hard to justify spending money on booty. I do it for the "thrill", if you will, not really for the sex (or lack thereof).

I also wonder if there are cultural differences. I am pretty confident that African Americans are pretty strong patrons of street walkers when you are talking about working class guys. And I am not sure if there is any "stigma" associated with this. However, amongst middle class (whatever that means) guys, having to "pay for a piece of ass" would be considered tres faux pas. You just don't. It is like admitting defeat, admitting that you are just too much of a loser to get laid on your own merits. Do guys do it anyway? I guess I am living proof that it happens, and I know *I'M* not a "loser", thus dispeling the stereotype, but I also know I'd NEVER tell any of my friends.

Interesting....let the discussion continue!!

"Latley I'v been using my little black book and paying a lot less....."

I would agree with you. I have seen guys defend the money they spend in "the hobby" by saying it is cheaper than regular dating (one particularly fat ass loser comes to mind...he is a disk jockey apparently with an entire website devoted to worshipping escorts and the hobby) and I always think to myself "bull shit".

I have NEVER spent on a first date or second date (even combined) the sort of cash that I typically drop on an escort. I have spent that sort of money on dates, but not until I got to New York, and only on my GF.

In summary, my opinion (and I think you'd agree) is that "the hobby" is NOT cheaper than casual dating. It MIGHT be cheaper than a SERIOUS relationship if you are the sort of guy who limits your hobbying (two to four times a month) and normally is pretty generous with your SigO, but even then I think it is a stretch.

I'd agree, but I wanted to give guys a chance to explain / justify....I mean, I am sure some of the money I have spent on other things in my life is EQUALLY irrational, so...who am I to judge.

Mostly I am just trying to understand "the hobby" and my fellow hobbyist better....

Thanks for your two cents....

I think that I fall in much the same boat that you do.  I have had a steady girlfriend for the past couple of years and so I don't really believe that sex is the sole motivating factor.  Also, I am young enough I could just as easily go to most of the bars and nightclubs to hit on women, which I do, but its for a different reason.

What drives me to this hobby is the feelings I get while I'm trying to find the provider, both during the research phase and the actual meeting.  There is a definite rush which is very different than what I feel when I have or anticipate sex with my girlfriend.  I don't think that I'm quit intelligent enough to fully understand why this happens.  I'm guessing that much of it is due to this being illicit.  Furthermore, it may play on the fact that I grew up in a very high socio-economic class where this type of behavior is looked down up as "dirty".  In essesence, this is a form of rebellion and an assertion of individuality.  Of course, I could be completely wrong too.

What is really interesting to me is you say that you would never tell your friends.  In all my escapades, I have only told one friend and for very specific reasons.  I wonder why this occurs?  Is it the social stigma we fear or some form of internalized guilt?  I would greatly appreciate your thoughts on this one.

Regards

Ungh. Then I would have to look at 401K, cafe plan, employee stock plan, etc...

Easier to look at it as gross - taxes.

And in that sense I typically pay a couple of hours to a days take home. Somewhere in that range.

for an encounter with a $400 lady.  Since I ordinarily bill between 50 and 60 hrs per/wk, it's not too much of a hit on the wallet.  (Hypothetically speaking, of course!)  

-- Modified on 6/19/2002 9:37:58 AM

Thanks for the response...

I thought about guys like "us"...lawyers...consultants who charge for their time, etc. As you surely know...what you bill and what you make are two different numbers.

I "bill" at about what an inexpensive independent escort charges, at least here in NYC. However, I WISH that was the sort of scratch I actually made. I can't bill clients for commute time, I don't bill clients for my direct expenses (office supplies, telephone expense, etc) except travel. There is often 30 to 50 percent of overhead time in working their project (research, networking with others, schmoozing somebody to get answers or a legal permit, or whatever) that I don't bill them for because they are paying my for my expertise, not for me to ACQUIRE said expertise. When they hire me, they assume I can solve their problem...if I were to bill them for the additonal ten percent of hours it took for me to chat with all my professional contacts so that I could figure out how to solve their problem (on top what I DID bill them for), they might wonder what the hell they hired me for in the first place. Essentially, it is difficult in my business to charge clients for the time I spend working on their project that they can't actually see me siting in their offices, or that I can't very directly account for.

All that is to say, while an hour romp with an escort might be 7/10 your billable hourly rate (geez, what the hell do you do for a living anyway? That's more than Wall Street lawyers charge...), the question is, how much do you REALLY have to work to finance that hour of fun?

Thanks for you two cents...

I think you are making this a bit more complicated than I intended, though if you work for yourself (as I do), I *DO* understand that it is not the most simple question.

But really, all I was asking is you take your typical paycheck...the amount that you can actually cash the check for, and divide by 40. That is what you take home per hour (yes, yes, ovetime, yada yada....keep it simple). How many hours do you then have to work to finance an hour with your favorite hotie (or, if you are like me, and don't see gals more than once...finance your TYPICAL hottie at your TYPICAL price point).

Thanks for your feedback all the same...