I've been a provider off and on for several years now. When I was younger, I never once thought of the wives and children of the men who were visiting me. Unfortunately, that's all changed for me. I don't exactly know what triggered the change. I don't know why. I took about six months off. Then I transitioned to massage only, and honestly thought that it would alleviate some of the heaviness that falls upon my heart lately.

Ok, so let me say that this guilt really stems of one particular client. He is married with children, mid forties, cute but not handsome, quite self important, a little arrogant, and charming as a mother fucker. He's also very wealthy; the kind of wealth about which I've only read.  He has wanted to see me for about four months. (Don't ask me why. I'm neither glamorous nor thin.) He was outrageous when providing screening information so I added him to my phone as Screened Jerk. I would never answer when Screened Jerk would call daily. Finally, I emailed him explaining to him that I didn't appreciate  his narcissistic attitude and how he isn't more important than any other of my dozens of clients. Since that email, everything changed. He began texting me. I would text him back. The messages were never sexual. They were playful and lighthearted. We finally met, had fun and have been carrying on this ridiculousness via phone calls, emails and text messages for several weeks now. Don't ya love modern technology?

I suppose why I'm feeling majorly guilty and just horrible is because this isn't just a wham bam thank you ma'am type thing. We carry on like friends. In reality, I know we aren't. I know he's not in love or like with me or anything like that. I am simply someone to feed his ego and fill his stressful days with the occassional smile. And, most of all, I am finding it hard to see him as a genuinely nice person when I know he's a horrible husband and father. Sure, he's a great provider. I'm sure his kids have everything they could ever want and need and that his wife doesn't lift a pretty little finger. But we all know dollars and cents don't make one a good father.  He's at the Four Seasons or Peninsula bar almost *every single night* until at least 10 or 11. He's away from home at least 16-17 hours per day. I feel terrible when he even mentions spending time with me, because I think he should be spending time with his wife and children. If he's not at the FS or Peninsula, he's at dinner with colleagues or traveling for  business. He's *never* home. When he is, he sits in his chaffuered car in his driveway talking to me before he goes in the for the night. On weekends, he'll text me and when he lands from a trip away, he's on the phone with me immediately.

I know his life is none of my business. I never, ever ask questions. I also know that relationships are incredibly difficult and that marriage itself is probably one of the most trying circumstances in life. What I do know is that we morally and ethically shouldn't be having this kind of "friendship". I use that term loosely. Again, we haven't slept together and seriously doubt we ever will. I don't have it in me to be intimate with anyone at this time in my life. But still.

The strange part is I probably wouldn't have any of this guilt had he seen me, left and only called for an appointment. Isn't that fucked up? We aren't sleeping together and I feel like he's cheating? But when I have slept with clients during my escort days, I never felt like it was cheating.

I think your feelings are normal.  You're probably a sensitive person.  Perhaps you're imagining how you might feel if you were his wife.  You also might be wondering how this man "got thru your defenses."  

Providers may not always be providing the conventional thing.  Some men yearn for the unconventional.  Maybe what he needs from you is not what you want to provide and makes you uncomfortable.  Why not discuss it with him?

Hi, Interesting Woman:

That's an interesting situation.  From what I can tell, I think that what this guy finds irresistible is the fact that you posed him a "challenge."  How often does a man like him get put in his place?  When he does, he sees it as a challenge to redeem himself in your eyes.  You become the mirror for his self-esteem.  You said yourself that "everything changed" after you spoke your feelings about his attitude.

I agree with your intuition that he is crossing inappropriate boundaries.  It's bad enough that he is dishonest to his wife and chronically absent to his children.  At the same time, I think that he is also acting unprofessionally toward you.  He is creating a fantasy that he is more special to you than "just another client."  Is that what you are looking for?  

The way he contacts you constantly is not normal in this sphere.  I guess I consider some of my favorite escorts as "friends," but only in the sense that I will email and say hi every few months, and I'd come to their help if they ever needed it.  But I can't imagine an endless stream of messages.  That's not what you do with an erotic professional; it's what you do when you are trying to make a relationship grow.  So that's what he is trying to create with you.  If you don't want to cross that line, then you need to be resolute, and I think that the best way to do it is to just simply ignore his calls.

So, that's just my opinion, but I sense that your intuitions agree.

Sounds like you're wtestling with some feelings. I think I'm wrestling with feelings with my ATF as well. It's an awkward position to be in... not sure I know how to proceed, but so far it sounds like a little harmless flirting on your part. You're not sleeping with him, so I'd say you're not technically doing anything wrong. What's wrong with making a "friend" smile once in a while?

That's a classic!  Way too funny!



-- Modified on 5/20/2006 7:53:14 PM

but we all know that it doesn't matter.

Emotions don't answer to logic.

If seeing him makes you feel bad, you should stop and tell him why.  You owe it to yourself.

The biggest problem is that this guy's ego won't allow him to accept that.  You may need some help with that.

I think he likes you because you don't give in so easy.  If you give in then he might lose interest or respect.  He probably has others he talks to as well.  But guys with a lot of money can live that life.

This makes as much sense as your guilt.  What do you wish "this community" to tell you?  We are neither priests nor rabbis (or at least I would hope not).

Your description of this "man" could be the description of my ex-wife.  But instead of the massage therapist-phone sex gal, we could substitute the chiropractor, podiatrist, therapist, nutritionist, personal trainer and fortune teller.  There was always someone to see other than me, the spouse, if she were not at work.... and when she did finally come home - in her mind - the kids came before either me or the marriage...  and even the kids felt shortchanged.

So you see, I was that wife and I do not find fault with you as there were many, many others.  I hope that you are not deluding yourself into thinking that just because he is not "texting you" or using your services that he is with his family or working... cause you know what, he isn't.

Do providers hurt others?  Yea, they do.  But probably less so than civies do.  I wish that my ex had seen a provider (male escort that is, or female - you pick).  Maybe that would have saved our marriage - or maybe not.  Either way, at least the provider would not have moved in before the bed was cold as happened.  Even my kids were stunned about that!

And yes, $ does not make a good parent.  I know, as I have to "be the parent."   Most that know me, even providers that know me well, know that to me, my kids come first.  If I have time to squeeze in a provider - I will - heck, recently I was late to be with a provider simply because my ex could not attend to the kids - and I had to.  It also meant that I drove over 100 miles in one afternoon - to make sure that my kids were ok, and that I kept my word to a provider.  

What does all this mean?  Simply this, the guy is a jerk, and being a jerk is not confined to the world of johns, nor is it only a male thing.  Jerks are everywhere but just as jecks are everywhere, good and decent people are also everywhere in all walks of life.  

This guy is obsessed with you.  And as all of us over the age of two know, any of us can become obsessed with anyone.  “Hobbiests” are no exception.  The trick is to know why!  In this instance - YOU are someone he cannot have at this point in time.  If he is in a business - it is like the deal that he cannot close.  Therefore, the more he cannot have you, the more obsessed with you he becomes.

Another question comes to mind - are you obsessed with him?  If you were not, I think that you would not have posted this here and you would know how to get rid of him.

A moth to a flame.  As I stated in previous posts, I have quit reading the TER reviews when I book.  I really should read them.  That way I can know what is real, and what is the illusion; I can also remind myself of the fantasy that is provided as I tend to forget – especially if with someone who I find attractive.  In this instance - there is no review for you to read... and you are going in much as I do, not knowing the script (fiction) from the truth (honest emotion).  I cannot advise you, but know that from what you say, this is well scripted and he has done this before - no matter what he says.  

When any provider tells me something that comes off as personal (you’re great, etc.) - I always have to remind myself of the situation - and every now and then I slip - and for whatever reason - don't put the personal shields up… and in comes a flood of emotion, that creates serious, real feelings for a person – when they were just reciting lines as part of the performance.  (With shields up, I have standard questions to ask to determine if the emotion on the part of the provider is genuine- and in some instances – they are.)

In every single instance where I do not remind myself of the reality of the situation - I am hurt.  Did you forget to remind yourself of the situation?  If so, I would suggest that you rethink the encounters, the answers are there.  Do the words sound rehearsed?  Have you used some of the phrases yourself?  It is funny, when I first started hobbying, I was with a really neat woman.  I fell in love with her.  She said all the right things – she was charming, witty, and highly intelligent and even was in the same social circles as was I.  Who would not fall in love?  I booked with her several times… and then on a night when I went to explore “our relationship” she said nothing out of the ordinary…. But it was the way that she said it, perhaps it was late, perhaps she was tired or whatever, but that it was a line, was apparent the moment it was said… examine the conversations you have had with this gent, the clues are all in there.

Odd, isn't it that providers can be hurt by the transaction part of this business as easily as can the hobbiests.

Now, can I make you feel better!  Sure, take two aspirin and call me in the morning. Lol!  Seriously, many men use this hobby – for reasons that are legit.  In my instance, I do not wish to date right now, although I am vulnerable and could be hurt, just due to “things.”  I hobby to find those parts of male/female relationships which I do not seek in the civie world.  Many who are married, hobby due to the distance between themselves and their spouses (and the guy is not ALWAYS at fault).  There are others, but I suspect that these cover the majority of reasons.  For those, providers can offer a reasonable alternative to the dating – serious relationship concept.  For them, you offer a service of value.  One which our society would do well to recognize – or alternatively make other changes to reflect the fact that marriage – is a contract between two people – and the dissolution of that contract is rarely fair to either party.

I really do wish you well.  In this and other human endeavor, there can be a drain on the soul.  If you need, I suggest that you distance yourself from this dude.  He, for you, is very bad news because you are no longer in control.  I would also suggest that you remove yourself from the “hobby” for a bit.  Why?  You can never make objective decisions while still immersed in an activity.  You probably need to take some steps away from the hobby, and reexamine your reasons for being a part of it… are they still valid?  Do you still “fit in?” and does the lifestyle still serve your needs, as opposed to only the needs of the customer.  

As in all things, you do need balance.  

One of the things about my ATF that should be bottled, branded and sold at a premium is that - at least with me  - she seems to have a sixth sense that permits her to know when my "emotions" emerge... and she will say some subtle phrase, that stops the "emotion monster" from chewing at the big green superdude.  for the other parts, smiles are sometimes few and far between! lol!  Great take on this an easy subject to examine, but hard to take the best advice.

Singlewhitemale hit the jackpot with "That's not what you do with an erotic professional; it's what you do when you are trying to make a relationship grow."  that is the differentiating factor that makes me suggest to you below, to distance yourself.  You are not now in control.

Parts of you always seem to be self-absorbed by one thing or another. Whether escort or "massage therapist" what you do is ethically or morally wrong in the eyes of most people. First, admit that something about this guy gets to you. Maybe you are looking through a glass darkly and seeing yourself. It takes very little couch time to discern that your guilt stems from your own narcissistic nature.

Human emotions are what they are.  It is not all about love hate. there are soooo many emotions.  I cannot watch a silly sob story without bawling my eyes out, but on the other hand, can deal with real life problems with relatively lower emotional wattage... except when it is ABOUT ME!  and it is mostly ABOUT ME!?   lol....

Seiously, this is really bothering you - from your post... and from the responses, I would gather that you are not alone in the fact that it does affect you and your every day world...  me too.

You know, for people who are out there buying it and selling it, there is a lot of moralizing a.w.a. guilt going on.  You all need to step back and take in the big picture.  These are personal decisions.  If it goes against your mores or ethics, then don't do it, and if it's a bad business decision, well you have to decide.  It would be a matter of personal interpretation whether someone be more offended by "actual cheating" vs "virtual cheating" . Rmember our former president who was unfaithful and lusted "only in his heart" and was quite troubled by it.  
Now it may be unprofessional and certainly not on task for providers to stop pretending and actually start caring about a paying, or in this case non-paying, customer.  But the human heart is a complicated thing; sometimes two people connect despite best intentions. In this case, our provider is intrigued by and engaged with a non-customer who by her own description is a "mother fucker".  Everything is about filling voids and everyone  fills their different voids in different ways.  Is our interesting woman troubled by the apparent situation or more by the fact that she's intrigued by someone who in any circumstance (at least for her) wouldn't be right, which is now being projected on all married clients w or w/o kids.
But this thread struck a chord with me.  I'm not a hobbyist.  I am a married, with children, professional, not young but not old, not rich beyond all belief, but comfortable who doesn't have everyting that he wants in a relationship under one "roof". I do spend time with my family and probably wouldn't be classified as an MF by anyone other than my ex-wife.  My wife is young and attractive, and despite broaching the subject with her a number of times, can't seem to get her on the same page sexually. She accomodates, but doesn't react. I have no interest in ending my marriage, so I fill my void in ways that work toward that end.  But alas, I find sex in the abstract less than completely fulfilling.  I don't knock your hobby; I need a connection, lowering of barriers, some surrender, real human interaction on more than a skin level.  Call it what you will.  I have recently visited a local SP more than a couple of times in a relatively short period of time, and she's A girl of my dreams, and I'm involved; not delusional, but could have a parallel "relationdhip" with this incredible woman indefinitely, but not if it's just about a donation and a service.  It's going to take the very thing that "interesting woman" is loathe to accept.  And I'm working on it.  Diligently.

Why hobby?  Why provide?  I hold that at the high end of the hobby, and most who use the modern e-form of the hobby are high end, there are similar reasons for providing and hobbying.  

I like your post because it starts the dialogue towards that direction.  I hobby, and would not wish, by a provider to vere from that path... but what if I - out of the blue - get struck by a provider in an unexpected way, much as our "interesting woman troubled?" Do I have the right to moralize?  or monopolize? or even for that matter, discuss my feelings with the lady?  

And that is the question.  What do you do or say, under those conditions?  And there I have no clue - did not seek it, nor did I expect it... and a friend of mine has provided an explanation for it... and while partially correct, in my opinion, his explanation does not satisfy all of the issues.  

Yea, one man's acceptable behavior is another man's sin.  One man's true love, is another man's version of prostitute.  

As we all work through this stuff, ever wonder what it was like before the internet?  No one to speak with?  or share with?  at least here, we have each other to either keep us on the straight and narrow, or sane - depending on your frame of reference...

wow, makes me downright philosophical....  hummmm.

There is nothing in your post to substantiate this accusation, unless I missed someting (it is a long post!). Just because he sees you and pays you doesn't make him a horrible husband or bad father. There are many (happily) married men in this hobby. You're not ruining our, or our family's, lives by seeing us.

I think she may be basing it on these statements:

"He's at the Four Seasons or Peninsula bar almost *every single night* until at least 10 or 11. He's away from home at least 16-17 hours per day. I feel terrible when he even mentions spending time with me, because I think he should be spending time with his wife and children. If he's not at the FS or Peninsula, he's at dinner with colleagues or traveling for  business. He's *never* home. When he is, he sits in his chaffuered car in his driveway talking to me before he goes in the for the night. On weekends, he'll text me and when he lands from a trip away, he's on the phone with me immediately."

Spending time in bar until 10-11pm, gone for 16-18 hours a day, when he goes home, sits in the driveway on the phone with her until he is ready to go in, instead of bing in his house with his wife and kids, calling her first when he lands after a trip instead of his family....granted I guess in some ways he could still be a "good" father..maybe...in some really remote way...but I doubt it.

This guy is an arrogant, annoying, little boy.  You yourself recognized him for the Jerk tht he is.  Yet you keep corresponding with him.  Don't think he sees something special in you just because he continues to email/text you.  He is giving you all this attention because you are probably the only one who puts up with him.  All the other providers blew him off or worse.

I disagree that he is trying to make a relationship grow.  Everything he is doing is just to feed his ego by getting your attention.  I don't know why you can even think that you two "carry on like friends."  I'll bet if you go back and look at the email/text he has sent you, it is all flirting or all about him - nothing serious or personal that you would talk about with real friends.  If you try to make this into something special, you are just setting yourself up to get hurt when he gets finally tired of you (just like he probably got tired of his wife and kids) and decides to find another challenge.

I'm not saying that you should stop seeing him.  Hell, once you see this for what it really is, you can limit this to the business relationship it should be.  You are just providing him the attention that he is paying for.  Just be careful.  If this guy is as attention-starved as he seems, he may "demand" your attention exclusively.  Although he may be willing to pay for it (with more appointments or even gifts), you may have to choose between him or other clients.  Just don't expect your other clients to be waiting around for you once he bails out on you.  Remember this is all just a challenge to him.  Once you realize this, you can stay in control of the situation.

-- Modified on 5/22/2006 8:53:27 AM

Well hobbyist or not, you've done more than most married men in your state of being. The truth is, she is getting it or will get it from someone. It's no crime that you are your wife may not be sexually compatible; no shame in that either. Less we forget, there are probably dozens of reasons you married her and her you, least of which was some sort of guarantee that things would work out in every imaginable way; they most often don't.

As for your SP relationship, that's not going anywhere and if you believe the connection is more than a regular roll in the hay, ask her to give you it for free. She might even do that once or twice and she'd even let you stay pass your hour or three. Now get this. She does this for a living and depsite the affection she may shower on you, you are only as good as or as welcomed as the last paying customer. You may better off seeing other women (not afairs of course, that would be stupid), but other SPs who will likely rock your world too. Emotionally, you are headed for a lot worse if you don't. The good ones are addictive and not for the faint of heart. I hope I don't read on these boards, how she stole your heart and stomped that sucker flat.

Well from the sound of it he's an irresponsible jerk.  Anyone who cheats on their spouse is by definition a liar and anyone who doesn't spend time with his kids when he could is irresponsible and shouldn't have been a dad in the first place.

You seem to recognize this but even still have an attraction, otherwise you could just blow him off because he doesn't meet your standards.  So why do you abuse yourself by seeing someone who you have low regard for?  Perhaps in actuality subliminally you are enjoying deluding yourself into being able to save him?  (Won't happen) Perhaps there is the subliminal desire for a fairy tale ending where he chooses you over his wife. (Nope.)

Most women who stay with a guy like this inherently *know* what their husband is doing and they have a low regard for him but go along with it because of the money and lifestyle as well as poor self-esteem.  

Then the question is whether he stays out all night by force or by choice?  His wife could be a rotten vile bitch who treats him like shit.  Or he could be self centered and have little regard for anyone's feelings but his own.  

Only he has the answer to that question.  Besides, if this girl weren't in the picture, someone else would be.  No point in feeling guilty.

a heartflet thank you

A provider whom I would pursue in all the traditional ways if I were able to do so