Oh gosh no, I don't discriminate at all : ))
It just works out that way. Those are all of my clients. They are the ones who always contact me. I adore all of my gentlemen friends from every background, of course.
Mackenzi
I guess I have been a member of this forum for over 4 years.
I have traveled the cities and the boards alike.
I have posted my share of thoughts and read hundreds more.
My question to the Ladies is this.
If you knew from reading the boards that a hobbiest was a flaming bigot and racist would that change your mind about seeing him? Would you still be willing to be intimate with a B I G O T?
Recently on my Carolina board, a member gave a shout out for MLK day. Just after he posted it, several hobbiests posted racial comments. I guess I was taken aback by it. I was surprised that they had the balls to say such hateful things.
So I took a trip over to Politics and Religion. And there I saw the same bigotry.
I believe in free speech. And yes, this is a public forum. But I am wondering.
Would it bother you to get naked with a racist?
Or can you just take the $$$ and turn your cheek?
What concerns me is this. Until I read the bigotry and racial slurs..I never knew that they were like this(these posters). It is shocking.
Perhaps it is my age. 52
But I have the right to choose. I choose no bigots and racists under my covers.
Ladies, will you please give me your feelings on this, because I really need some feedback.
Thanks
Sexy Carolina
I am not a provider (or a girl), and maybe a little cynical, but my guess is that many will claim to agree with but in reality only care about the green. Money ain't racist.
I love what I do however, this is a business and like any business I have the right to refuse service for any reason.
no matter how much money he has. Racism and bigotry certainly are on that list.
If someone posted such things in advance, I would not see them, for sure. If I don't know about it beforehand and only find out in the room, I would try to roll with it as best I could...but if it was really bad I would give someone their money back and say that the chemistry isn't there and he should spend his money with someone that would click with him better.
I don't have a good poker face, and I'm no good at being a "yes" girl. It's also an integrity thing for me I guess...
xoM
hey there girl...
I am the same, If for what ever reason I do not like their additude on the boards they make many sexist comments belittling woman in this profession or what ever, I won't see them either. I see who I feel I am on the same wave lenghth with and other than that I will just pass. I know I pass on many who I probably would have been ok to see here but hell its my preference. See who you are comfortable with and otherwise don't see them. Theres not enough money out there for me to put my morals aside for a few bucks.
I thought about using an alias to post this. As I'm sure my comments will not be well recieved at all and I'll be slammed for them. Then I thought, well, who cares, if you want to slam me...have at it. These are just my thoughts on your question.
This is a business. Albeit, one based on fantasy and illusion. In my humble opinion, I don't have to like who I do business with. I'm not 'dating' the gent. Of course it would be wonderful if I did like him. But think about it...how many gents have we been with and what do we really know about them. A big fat not much. Not everyone expresses their beliefs and views. I'll bet that many gents we regularly see have some beliefs we would loathe.
One man's green is just as green as anothers. I don't have to agree with them. I don't have to like what they stand for. I'm not taking them home to mama.
This is a fantasy. For the length of the session, he is my prince charming and I am his ...whatever he wants me to be. We're both happy.
Would I have a flaming bigot as a friend? No. But this isn't match.com either. Just my .02 for what it's worth.
That being said, I have many gents that I have hit it off with and enjoy their company tremdously. But it doesn't cross over into civie life.
MEOW
I can't. I understand and value your opinion, and know you are not the only one to feel that way.
I personally need to at least *like* the people I'm spending time with in order to stay grounded and healthy, and not get burnt out. It's not about someone needing to be "date" worthy in civie life, but I do need to be able to connect with them.
To each their own...
My best to you on your path.
xoM
those Martians. Have you seen what they can do when they land down here? They bring those death rays and zap us with that shit.
Nope..no Martians for me. Martians go home.
One of my dreams is to have an orgy with a woman of every race on earth.
Boy, would they all be disappointed.
CG
LOL Channelguy!! Sometimes a little comic relief is in order.
Stay away from those martians, I here they like to experiment and conduct anal probes!! LOL
: ))
Mackenzi
...this just shows me once again how drastically different my approach to this hobby is, in comparison to most other providers.
i do not see any clients that i "don't know much about." before even discussing setting up a meeting, i take the time to speak with and truly get to know the men who are interested in spending time with me. i am not simply "screening" them, i am learning their personality, their values, their character. likewise, they are getting to know me...the real me, not some pretty facade. this is how i determine compatibility, and whether or not someone will be the type of man that could benefit from seeing me and that i likewise could benefit from having in my life. because it is my life...not some separate closed-off world. this is not and never has been about business for me.
so, it would certainly come out that a gent was a bigot or racist or jerk or whatever other undesireable quality, long before we actually met. and it would be easy to then make the decision to never see that person.
I disagree with that, Lilli.
Guys usually try to put their best face forward until they actually meet me. There's one fellow whom I had seen several times, who chose to, on what may have been my 10th visit with him, ask me to roleplay .... that I was his little daughter (now grown) and he was daddy climbing into bed to make her a woman. Gross? Hell yes. Did I have any friggin clue beforehand? No.
I still see him. I wonder if the roleplaying keeps him from kidnapping and raping a little kid. Or maybe not.
hi Jane...of course, people can always surprise you. but i think the chances of someone deceiving you or keeping hidden some deep, dark and scary part of themselves are greatly lessened by following the process that i described.
you say that you saw this particular gent maybe 10 times...but plenty of providers and hobbyists see one another dozens of times without ever truly getting to know each other. yes of course in an initial phone conversation, when you are still complete strangers, some will try to put on a facade and put their best face forward, as you say. but this shell can be easily removed by the way you steer the conversation. one way to remove this shell is to reveal a bit (just a bit at first) of yourself...the real you...to them first. engage in a relaxed, natural conversation that has absolutely NOTHING to do with escorting, meeting, etc. this is how you come to see and sense the real man. also one must remember that the unspoken is often even more powerful and telling than the spoken.
...your willingness to post such a topic, Sexy Carolina.
Rock on!
xoxo,
Giamarie
You only asked for the ladies but here is another view.
I too am a professional. Although my profession is very different I chose to advise those people that I like and enjoy spending time with. If they are dishonest, abusive or unreasonable they are gone. I don't have the advantage of knowing this upfront which you do in this case.
The answer to your question really comes down to your respect for your own personal beliefs. Are they more important than money?
Everyone conducts their business in a different way.
The fact that you are asking the question shows that you are more than "Green is Green no matter who puts the Green in the envelope".
Everyone should have the right and ability to draw a line in the sand and you should too!
If everyone chose to stay away (no matter their business) maybe we would have a better world.
i have a different opinion
i don't feel I have to have the same philosophy or beliefs as a client aI am doing business with
I am muslim and I have had appointments with christian, jewish, buddhist, atheist, agnostic, and other..
As long as the person treats ME respectfully and is not abusive (including verbally abusive in discussing topics we disagree on) I have no problem seeing him.
I am in client service business both in my day time occupation and as an escort.
During the day i work for other people (financial services) and their compensation is based on commission. They make the rules. And Rule #1 is no matter what client does or wants .. I have to do everything to make sure that client does not take his/her business elswhere. Even if it means fudging the facts or listening to the client curse and yell.
At my spare time I am indy. I get to choose the clients and I decide whether or not i want to take them on as regulars. And you bet i am not going to see someone who makes derogatory comments or is disrespectful.
Moral of the story - sometimes in mainstream business we tolerate more of bad behavior than in this illegal activity. Kind of ironic.
XoXo
Lina
For all of you alias bashers out there who consistently call alias users cowards and who unequivocally assert that there are no valid reasons for the use of an alias, please heed this thread.
These ladies are categorically stating that they will make hobby related decisions based on the posts on these boards. Not verification information. Not safety issues. Not monetary issues. On the words posted and the ideas behind them.
Don't get me wrong. I am not saying that they are wrong, nor that they don't or shouldn't have the freedom to choose who to see or not for whatever reasons they deem right for themselves. However, this thread is proof positive that every one of us should be able to use an alias to post an unpopular or disagreeable opinion so that our hobbying is not affected by the words we use.
If you are a bigot, racist, serial killer, or anything else that is "unpopular" then make sure you use an alias to say how you really feel.
b-
Yeah, if someone says something as stupid as some of the shit you alluded to, or that is regularly said on the P/R board (or on this board, depending on the poster), and if a woman says "I won't see that person because of what they said there"...
I would say "Fuckin A!", and compliment her integrity to her ideals.
If a lady decides she didn't want to see me because I am a bleeding heart liberal, I would say "Fuckin A!" and compliment her on her integrity.
There are some ladies that I will not see because of things they have said here. Is that a loss? Is that unfair? Maybe in your mind (or theirs), but I will almost never see someone who I haven't talked to enough to get an "idea" of their personality and their beliefs. I never call someone I am interested in...I e-mail them and we talk a bit before I consider booking. I may not know *that* much about them, but like Megan said earlier on this thread, I have to know that I at least "like" the person I am doing the most intimate thing we humans can do with each other.
While I know we are all here for specific temporary reasons, I cannot just be with someone just because they look good and have good reviews. That would dehumanize this to the point of making it undesirable to me.
true happiness in this hobby meeting with simpatico providers and have fantastic, like minded conversations about life, love, and politics between your sexual escapades.
However, please at least acknowledge that others within this hobby do not have the same approach as you and simply don't care what their session partner's politics, religion, or ethnocentric life views are. And, more importantly, don't want to have to pass some sort of litmus test before they are deemed worthy beyond the usual screening methods. Those hobby practitioners may very well want to exercise their privilege, as members of this site, to express themselves on these boards, under the rules established, without having to worry that they are going to offend the sensibilities of a provider (or potential client) that they are interested in (or whose business they want) just because they have an IDEA that they want to express.
My point in my post was that this thread demonstrates a valid reason for the use of an alias. If you go back and read it, you will see that I fully supported the ladies' right to make their decisions on whatever grounds they choose. Therefore, your response really has nothing to do with my post, yet it is couched in an argument because you have some sort of irrational need, based on your posting history, to police the messages on these boards until they conform to what you feel is appropriate and decent.
Your pathetic "personal attack" ending to your last post points out exactly why I feel the way I do. Anyone else can feel however the fuck they feel, but you have justified everything I have said in the way you have argued this. You think these issues are separate, I think they are tied in, and it is all relative to individual beliefs. Mine is in openness, and there are ladies here who agree with me. We like knowing who we are lying with, and you somehow separate all of this in your mind. The problem with this is that your way, we could sleep with someone repugnant to us. My way, everyone would make an educated choice.
I feel sorry for you.
I am done posting to this thread. Carry it on with yourself in you like.
choose by whatever criteria they set so as to brush aside my very valid point about the ability to use an alias so that your words are not used to reject you for a session. I said in my first post:
"Don't get me wrong. I am not saying that they are wrong, nor that they don't or shouldn't have the freedom to choose who to see or not for whatever reasons they deem right for themselves."
Obviously we agree on this point, yet you insist on arguing it with me. Then you go further by saying that you "feel sorry for me." It is that kind of condescending, holier than thou BS that those of us who use aliases properly (not to flame, but to make a point) are trying to avoid. This insistence that you and your ilk have of attacking alias posts simply for the employment of the alias rather than the words within the post just doesn't make any sense.
By the way, I have not taken off the gloves, nor have I personally attacked you. I simply used your previous words from other posts to make a judgment of your motives and intentions, which seems to have offended you - thereby proving my overall point rather nicely, so thank you. (if I have to spell it out for you, I did to you what I'm complaining that you do to alias posters, and you didn't like it)
You won't respond to this because you can't with any effectiveness, not because you've decided to take your perceived high road.
Have a nice night.
You say you agree with this point:
"Don't get me wrong. I am not saying that they are wrong, nor that they don't or shouldn't have the freedom to choose who to see or not for whatever reasons they deem right for themselves."
But then you want to take away that choice by allowing racists and sexists to not show who they are, thus not allowing the provider to make a choice on "...who to see or not for WHATEVER reasons they deem right...".
You are trying to say that the use of the alias to cover up who they really are (racist...etc) is ok because otherwise people won't want to be with them. The person making the disparaging remarks knows this, and that is why the alias comes out. They know that others will look at their words and judge them and they don't want to look bad.
Personally I don't care if someone uses an alias or not, but if the reasoning is so they can cover up their "TER" identity and make crude remarks about race or sex then the use of an alias is just a cop out.
b-
Now, ensure that you're particular definition of each is an exact match to the ladies who will exclude based on those issues. Now, clearly delineate what expression of thoughts within every possible post that could be made qualifies the poster to be defined under those definitions as a racist, bigot, or sexist. You can't.
Everyone's definition is different. The ladies are not generally identified, and have not given the standards they will use. Further, each of us are human. We are sensitive to different things, ideas, and words. We react differently to what we read. We perceive differently than you, I, or anyone else.
Just take this thread. Carolina starts by generally describing racism and bigotry, yet later expands her definition to include someone who admitted to laughing at a joke. Now we are bringing in the definition of satirical humor to the definition of racism, and excluding the hobbyist who admitted to laughing.
The alias is a shield to the hypersensitive, obtuse, and those who aggressively misunderstand.
The joke that started it all was clearly racist and designed to inflame not only the bigot, but the political extremist. But does recognizing the humor and laughing make you enough of a racist that you should be excluded from a session just for that?
I don't post often, though I do like to read through here when I get a chance.
I have to agree with the comments of the ladies here who would rather not see someone they are not comfortable. I would prefer to be with a provider that I am comfortable with, someone I can enjoy a nice conversation with as well as the physical pleasure. I dont feel a need to hide behind an alias to express an opinion. If a provider choses not to see me because of an opinion I have expressed then I probably will not have as good a time as I would prefer.
Just my opinion of what I am looking for in this hobby. That is one of the reasons I tend to repeat with providers that I have a chemistry with.
"serial killer" is not going to be indicated by the words a person posts. You are engaging in hyperbole to make an invalid point.
Second, bigotry and racism are significantly subjectively defined by the reader of the WORDS a person has written on an internet post. Do you want to be rejected because you referred to a Muslim terrorist as a "raghead?"
Do you really think it stops there? What about "sexism"? Do you want to be rejected because you are PERCEIVED to be a sexist based on a remark in a post. This is what Nicole said in this very thread:
"If for what ever reason I do not like their additude on the boards they make many sexist comments belittling woman in this profession or what ever, I won't see them either."
Not to mention that engaging in debate, particularly on the P&R board, does not necessarily reveal how the poster "really feels" but rather how the poster may be either responding to a point or verbally sparring with another.
Nice try, but your attempt to belittle the point does not change the fact that people on this board make hobby related decisions based on words on the page. Why would you seek to prevent someone from being able to express themselves without having to worry about whether or not they will be rejected based on that expression?
I threw in serial killer to go overboard on my point and probably made it seem less effective. That part of your reply is valid.
The point that I was making was "yes" if someone called another person a "raghead" then they are racist, end of story. No matter if it was meant at just a certain part of a group (radical terrorists) or not.
Perception is EVERYTHING. What other people perceive about you and the world around them is all that matters to them, so if you really want to be able to "fit in" or have others like you then you have to make the perception of yourself the best one you can.
Words (and the feeling behind them) are very strong indicators of how a person behaves and thinks. "Words on the page", as you put it, is used to determine if someone is liked or not, no argument there. That is why if you are a racist or sexist then you HAVE to use an alias in order to prevent people from disliking you.
As for remarks that belittle women? Well if you don't think that women need to be belittled then you won't make those kind of remarks. Otherwise if you do make that kind of statement, it is indicative of how you feel about women in general. And as such, should deserve to have some women avoid you.
Now as for the P&R board I can't really say too much as I avoid it like the plague. I love a good debate and sometimes like to pull a devil's advocate during one. But I never have sunk to a depth of degradation of sex or race in either instance. And when I am debating a side of an issue that I don't agree with (just to get people's responses and to get people thinking) I will say so, that way there is no mistake that it is only a debate and not my feelings.
Now if some woman somewhere on this planet decides that I am a bigot, racist, (serial killer), or sexist and doesn't want to see me, then that is her choice and I can't do anything about it.
b-
A Provider decides to exclude based on expression of certain thoughts she finds offensive;
She can only see these expressions of thoughts within posts on TER boards (or other similar sites) from TER members who actively participate on the boards;
TER members who actively participate on the boards are only a limited percentage of her client base;
Only TER members who actively participate on the boards are at risk of being excluded based on their perceived offensive expression of thoughts, which is a form of discrimination in itself as it is only applied to a limited percentage of the client base;
The only way these TER members who actively participate on the boards can mitigate this risk is to either censor their expression of thoughts or use an alias;
Censorship has a chilling effect on honest, open discourse;
Therefore, alias usage is a necessary outlet to avoid discriminatory screening based on the expression of thought.
Now, if the provider has a screening method designed to screen out ALL of her clients whose beliefs and thoughts were offensive to her, then there would be a defacto penalization of TER members. That, I'm afraid is not only unrealistic, but would destroy her business.
As I have said before, I fully support every Provider's right to choose who she sees for whatever criteria she wants. That's not my argument. However, the risk of exclusion can only be mitigated through censorship or alias usage, and I choose alias.
I am not going to change your mind or the angle you are coming at this debate, nor are you going to change my mind or my angle either. We are going at this from right angles and not head on.
Everyone censors themselves all the time. That is my point. No provider ever said they wanted censorship, but they can determine who they want to see from the feelings they get from someone. That feeling can come from an email, a forum board, a phone call, or even the chit chat at the beginning of an appointment.
As for mitigating the risk of being excluded by a provider? If you are a racist, then you should be excluded by providers that don't want to have anything to do with you. By using an alias to spout racist remarks you are removing that ability of the provider to determine who they want to see.
Anyway, like I said you are not going to agree with me and I am not going to agree with you, so this is my final point. You can have yours (or not) and this is done. (No I am not taking a high road, I am just going to move on since this is becoming pointless on both of our sides.)
b-
It was fun, though.
you two could post on that Board and try to change the culture, as opposed to leaving it in the hands of the clueless few who think that hurling racial epithets or making ad homimem attacks is
an exercise of the right of "free speech," and clothe themselves as champions of that principle.
Every now and then an intelligent respectful debate breaks out on that Board and continues until the troglodites take over.
"Only TER members who actively participate on the boards are at risk of being excluded based on their perceived offensive expression of thoughts, which is a form of discrimination in itself as it is only applied to a limited percentage of the client base..."
this is a false statement. believe it or not, some of us do take the time to get to know the men who wish to spend time with us, well BEFORE any meeting takes place. i do not need this message board in order to get to know a person...sure it would be nice if he happened to be a board member so i could review his posting history and learn his viewpoints on a wide variety of topics, but i would learn him just as well during the course of exchanging emails and lengthy phone conversations. if a man has beliefs that i find to be personally offensive, then those things will naturally come out one way or another.
It is one of the reasons why I feel that you are one of the best posters that I've read here on TER and why I have always loved your posts and approach to the hobby.
However, my statement was not false. Exceptions to the absolute are exceptions - not disproving factors. As you said in your post above:
"this just shows me once again how drastically different my approach to this hobby is, in comparison to most other providers."
My statement was directed at the "most other providers" that you refer to.
you're correct in that there are always exceptions to the rule, and i realize that when it comes to the escorting world i am a mighty big one. so i hear you, truly. but one annoying thing about me is that i'm a very literal-minded person, say exactly what i mean and tend to assume that others do as well. just one of those quirks i need to work on.
With the use of an alias, they can admit that no matter how much they despise a guy based on the shit he spews on these boards, they will still take his money. They might be afraid to admit that without an alias, and they shouldn't have to be afraid to tell the truth.
I think you meant well with your post but you kind of distorted what the OP said.
The Op said that she would not see gentleman who made “racist” posts. You replied that “every one of us should be able to use an alias to post an unpopular or disagreeable opinion.” That is a far broader proposition.
Now if the OP had said “I will not see any one who supports Obama” or "anyone who believes we should withdraw from Iraq,” your position would be entirely sensible. But, as Balthazar said, justifying the use of an alias to disguise a racist poster’s identity simply allows the use of an alias as a vehicle to spew racist hatred.
So I think you just picked the wrong post to make your point – you had a valid point as far as an unpopular or disagreeable opinion is concerned but not where a racist post is made.
Some of your critics failed to make this distinction.
The OP limited her exclusions to racism and bigotry, but as with all such exclusionary behavior based on ideas, was expanded within the thread:
"If for what ever reason I do not like their additude on the boards they make many sexist comments belittling woman in this profession or what ever, I won't see them either. I see who I feel I am on the same wave lenghth with and other than that I will just pass." Sweetnicole
It is easy to justify thought based exclusions on universally repugnant thoughts such as racism, bigotry, and religious extremism. However, once that road is opened, it is inevitably traveled no matter where it leads - as was this thread before I posted: what started out as revulsion for bigotry and racism quickly led to "attitude."
Therefore, I think this was the right thread to make my point. I didn't pick it, BTW, I just reacted to it.
If someone is worried about how their opinions will effect that the status of their handle...which is already an alias to begin with... then why even post.
And if they feel so strongly about something that they absolutely must be heard, why not stand behind their words? Seems a little chicken-shit to me. Use of the alias only discounts the credibility of posters who otherwise may have valid points.
Sometimes they are used for the sake of humor. Fine. Sometimes the poster wants to discuss an embarrassing personal situation, sure. And if someone is so weak that they feel they must use one to state unpopular opinions, that's pretty lame, but whatever, no biggie.
The only thing that really pisses me off is when the alias is used to flame someone else. That is BS. As if cyberspace wasn't already full of internet tough guys, here they get unlimited alias' to protect their other alias.
Someone made a blatantly political post praising Obama and how self-righteously liberal the poster is, and how horridly backward the state of SC is because not everyone agrees with him. And a total BS claim that voicing his support for Obama had put him at risk of being stabbed or shot.
Two of us immediately chimed in that such a post did not belong on the Carolinas board. I, in fact, specifically stated he should post to the P&R board, without making any comment on the (in)validity of the post itself.
He responded to both of us with even more stridently political views and immediately determined only racists could disagree with his positions. Eventually, some very negative posts did occur in reaction to his. Your post in that thread was less than stellar as well. The upshot is that the entire thread was political and the trainwreck it became is the very reason a P&R board exists to keep the other boards free from the crap he started.
I do not deny your claim that racism and bigotry sometimes runs rampant on P&R. I find it appalling, whether done by tallslim, Ben Dover, or any of the others. I've commented on it several times there to the specific posters. But your recent posts there are full of virile as well.
And this coming from someone who has been labeled several times as a White Knight.
I think you raise a legitimate question in general--do other providers care about bigotry and/or would they put their personal concerns about their business interests? But I strenuously object to your deliberate misrepresentation as to what happened on the Carolinas Board.
Every one claims to want free speech, except when that speech offends their delicate sensibilities. The OP is just another whiner, running away from the mean old racists on the P&R board. I am not going to debate the issue over here, nor am I going to inflict any more drama on the General board on a subject that clearly belongs on the P&R board.
If the OP thinks her post here is going to have the slightest effect on my postings on the P&R board she has another thing coming, and if she thinks that she is going to have the slighest effect on my hobbying, not only is she mistaken, but she is delusional. If anyone wants to discuss this issue further with me, I await on the P&R board. Please have the guts to flame me under your "real" fake name. You cowardly alias attackers can all go.....
Let's face it,,,,some whites will Never like black's and vise versa.
I read Balboa's joke,,,in the context that it was a Joke,,,i thought it was funny.
If we put M.Obama in Playboy and S. Palin in Nat Geo,,,,i could almost guarantee that not a thing would of been mentioned about racism.
Some of my best Life-Long friends are black,not sure i would tell them the joke?,,,But if i laugh in the privacy of my own home because i found it humorous,,,doesn't make me a racist!
That's what you and your cronies called me several times
In my life, my heart and soul lead my journey. 
You bigots and racists took me by surprise.
I really had no clue that you would share your hatred and contempt so willingly.
BTW
Here is a taste of your lack of taste
"Sarah Palin was offered 1 million to pose nude in Playboy......
and Michele Obama was offered the same for National Geographic"
Last night I offered your "Joke" to a Duke grad, my 21 yr old son, and my 50 yr old bf. I must mention that one of your cronies said when he read this that he laughed so hard, he had to look around his office to see if anyone noticed.
When I told your joke last night, no one laughed.
What you don't get is this.
We as a people are fed up with the racism and bigotry in this country. We proved this when we elected our 44th president.
You must be so consumed by this historical event that you bring your hatred to this forum. This forum to me is about intimacy.
When I have a date I don't put on an act. I give of myself. It comes from within. I don't just put on thigh-highs and garters and go down on you and look into your eyes. My eyes are wide open.
In my site I give you a look into who I am. Guys know me before they meet me. I know not everyone is like me. But I am me. And when guys book me...they know exactly what they are getting.
But...I don't get that luxury.
I get a few emails, a few phone calls maybe, perhaps a post or two. From this, I decide...to do or not to do. It isn't always about the mighty $$$
What you have done for me is open my eyes.
This wonderful forum that promotes intimacy with respect for our privacy and safety is abUSED by BIGOTS, RACISTS and SEXISTS.
That you take something great ...and turn it into something VILE without RESPECT for others, is shocking. I wanted to know if other Ladies could look past this. At first when I saw no response, to my post, I considered that they might be afraid to speak. Not wanting to have their business affected. I, myself didn't consider that.
But then I was pleasantly surprised. I realized that there ARE Women like me. WE look at individuals. We take into consideration, MORE than you think.
To the Ladies who posted in this thread, I salute you for your honesty and integrity.
Sexy Carolina
Sorry SC,,,,the more i think about it,if i can't tell it to my black friends,then it is not funny,but belittling!
The Hooker with White Guilt,,,,not at all!
The provider with a heart,,,yes!
If anyone thinks i'm kissing SC's ass,,,,I Am!
Because she's right and i am embarrassed!
GA this is not a political or religious issue so I'll post it here. To someone who has invested money, time, effort in, or sacrificed for justice and fairness to all people, no matter their sex, race, ethnicity or culture, a sexist, racist or bigoted remark is not an affront to their delicate sensibilities. It is an affront to who they are, as a person, and their personal values, and how they want the world to be for themselves and their loved ones. This playing the "delicate sensibilities," or being too thin skinned, is very disingenuous.
a clearly marked locker room, and then run screaming from the room after hearing some locker room humor, then yes you are too thin skinned.
It was locker room humor, yes a bit tasteless, but nothing close to deserving the outrage that it generated from SC. I didn't even make the joke, but as usual I am the one taking the heat for it for not condemning it hard enough.
Just because I am not falling all over myself to fawn praise on a man that has only been in office two days doesn't make me a bigot. The bigots are the ones that are going to judge him on the color of his skin not by his accomplishments as POTUS. and that goes both ways, some are going to condemn him even if he is successful, some are going to praise him even if he falls flat on his face. Those are the racists not me.
I support "EQUAL" rights not "SPECIAL" rights. If that makes me a racist, so be it.
Why are you so worried about your words. You even pm'd me so that you could ask how and why I am attacking you. You say you never said a darn thing wrong. I really don't think that in my post I labeled any particular C H A R A C T E R as being a racist or bigot. You can say what you want. That is the Freedom of Speech. I just need to know if bigotry and racism is as widely accepted in this forum as you perceive. And I have my answer.
I will meet you in the P&R room one day. Now that I know what you are about..I am up to the challenge of an intelligent conversation. But I am wondering if you can debate withour bigotry?
I will leave you with a sampling of your own words..........
"you ball less fucks?"
"Fuck you, and fuck her."
"I didn't even making the fucking joke. All you mother fuckers want freedom of speech, except when that speech offends you. You can't have it both ways, so go back your regional boards and cry to your fucking moderators, or think that I really give a fuck what a bunch of fat assed, over the hill bunch of cunts think about me. Can I be any fucking clearer."
It might of been racist, but at least it was funny. After all the shit you libs have been throwing at GW all these years, what do you expect?"
"Lighten up, tell some cracker or chinaman jokes if it makes you feel better.
I am sou sick of you PC, whiny ass bitches(both male and female). It was a fucking joke already. If you don't like the tone over hit, don't let the door hit you on your ass on the way out. If you don't get that now, you never will."
"and I will tell this one to my black friends, they unlike you have a sense of humor. They will probably tell some kind of little dick asian joke in return, and also unlike you, I'll probably laugh."
"Don't worry about taking my money, I don't
fuck old broads anyhow. Now go crawl back under your rock with your wussie, punk assed friend kiber."
"and the only thing that misfired were the weak little electric impulses that pass for a brain on the part of our hypersensitive provider from South Carolina."
"I didn't even post the fucking joke, but just like in the case of T&D I will support the right of Balboa to post it even if it was a bit of locker room type humor. If no one else has noticed this is an adult forum and occassionally people post things considered in bad taste. It's the price we pay for having an unmoderated board."
"A little food for thought, until black people(and white) get over this hyper sensitivity to racial humor directed at blacks, there never will be an end to racism. By your choice of aliases, you seem to understand that. It is perfectly acceptable to reference "a chinaman's chance in hell", but make the slightest racial remark towards black people and the PC police want string you up or in this case blackball me from fucking old washed up hookers. Many of you find my opinions racist, but I take as good as I give. Whether it be comments like "little dicked asian" or JackO's reference to "those commie chinks" you don't see me running home to mommy."
"It is ironic that while you loathe most of what I post, you have no problems making a more racist remark towards me than the original joke posted by Balboa, Nice double standard, not that I give a fuck about your choice of alias, or that it offends me personally, it doesn't. Just saying though, many thin skinned people would find your choice of alias extremely racist and in poor taste. Me, I don't give a fuck, as I said I can take it, apparently others can't."
While I consider your remarks tasteless...I am deeply offended by the remarks you made towards me.
I love to banter. To debate.
When you take the debate to the level that you and your cronies participate in you get lost. Instead of debating you degrade. It's a wonderful thing, freedom. And you abuse yours.
Amen
Just so it is clear...The last paragraph in the above post are my words.
Will we ever get to edit our posts again?
To see my typos ...yegads!!
This is a different locker-room the the P&R locker-room. Reminds me of a time playing high school football. We were the visiting team and as usual had to use there girls locker-room to change in. Being that the recruitment base for our team was so small, due to being a small Mid-western town, one of my friends had to change out of his football uniform into his band uniform to play for half-time. We had taken the field first, after half-time, and the coach wanted me to return to the locker-room to get something he forgot. On passing the boys locker-room I heard a big commotion, and had the thought that my friend might have gone to change there by mistake. I tried to find enough courage to go in, and sure enough, he had. I think the experience was quite similar to what I've heard a mosh pit (hope I got that right because I can't return to fix it) can be like. We still laugh about it all these years later.
In my post to GA, I'm only discussing his use of "delicate sensibilties" on the GD board. I hadn't even read to joke on the P&R until just before my latest post to him. He seemed to think I was referring to that, or lost track of where he was, which quite understandable given the number of boards this issue has traversed.
...First: Is this North or South Carolina? It will define if it's an SEC game, or the SEC vs the ACC, which affects the league standings
Second: Is this football or basketball
Third: Who's locker-room is it, the visitors or the home team, & who is the home team?
Forth: Is it halftime, or is the game over, & who won?
and I've got smoke coming out my ears. Sorry about Ga, it's short of GaGambler.
This is an ACC issue here. Unfortunately for Georgia they are last. But there are still three teams from the Carolinas that are playing strong. Take the North Carolina Tar Heels for example. They were able to come back and beat Clemson, A South Carolina stronghold, and remain ranked in the NCAA top ten. Now let;s move along to the #1 ranking team in the Nation. Well at least for now. Wake Forst suffered their first loss. On their heels are the Big Blue Devils from Durham North Carolina. They both will be meeting on Saturday. Be sure to tune in. Back to you in the studio
all the other men for seemingly not having any balls, or me because its so surprising to you as you think I normally don't have any balls LOL
But in seriousness, I disagree with your repeated "free speech" argument. You often state it, as its an absolute. I don't believe in free speech as an absolute on any board, including P&R, and quite frankly, I don't think you do either. Absolute free speech would have to mean the absence of any rules, as any rule is by definition a limitation of free speech. That is anarchy and anarchy would make the board unusable. Do you think constant spamming, clustered advertising, off-topic threads, libel, outings of providers and hobbyists, thread-shitting, copying of other username handles, etc. etc. SHOULD be allowed? Rules are needed, and therefore the free speech as an absolute is a false argument. The question is not should there be limits to what can be posted, but merely what the limitations should be. I suspect you might draw the line somewhere differently than I would, but I can't believe you would not draw a line at all.
And for the record, I would draw the line at allowing tallslim to make his Anti-semitic statements like Jews are "ugly white people" or money hoarding shysters etc and other racist statements like blacks and other minorities when they are unhappy just destroy everything in sight or blacks are incapable of building and maintaining a civilization etc etc. I understand you are more accepting of the ability to make posts such as these (without endorsing the ideas themselves) but unless you truly believe in anarchy you cannot legitimately claim you do so on the grounds of free speech.
You make some very valid points, but my point remains the P&R board already has rules, limited as they might be and easily offended visitors don't have the right to pick and choose what offends "THEM".
As the rules stand now, T&D "DOES" have the right to make these type of inflammory comments, and we have the right to either shout him down, agree with him (not likely), or ignore him. I don't believe that someone who has spent all of five minutes on the board has the right to dictate what we can and cannot say.
I do agree that we need rules. Xfean's constant spamming of the boards is one example. Complete anarchy is obviosly not the answer. The OP's supposed outrage over my not lack of condemnation of a reasonably innocuous joke and her seeking to have "me" and not the actual poster of the "joke" blackballed by the providers of TER is completely ridiculous IMO.
Do you see anything in my post here in it's entirety
"It might of been racist, but at least it was funny. After all the shit you libs have been throwing at GW all these years, what do you expect?
Lighten up, tell some cracker or chinaman jokes if it makes you feel better."
How does that deserve this?
http://www.theeroticreview.com/discussion_boards/viewmsg.asp?MessageID=85114&boardID=39&page=1
I now understand you to mean "free speech" as everything is acceptable within the already established guidelines set out by TER. I hadn't picked up on the last part before but I'll keep that in mind from here on out.
"It might of been racist, but at least it was funny. " We disagree on this. I didn't find it funny but that is a matter of taste. But even if it were, I don't see that as an excuse. Personally, to me, racism is ugly in any context. I agree with you that in the context of political arenas, some of it is to be expected and the question is how to respond to it, if at all. As I stated in my first post here, SC was out of line on P&R, and way off base on the Carolinas board. I am not attempting to defend her.
"Lighten up, tell some cracker or chinaman jokes if it makes you feel better."
C'mon now GG, that's not a real response. If someone is offended by something, they should do the offensive behavior back? Again, not defending SC here, but you usually offer a better logical response in your posts.
was to point out that blacks are not the only minorities out there. Whites(crackers) are always fair game by todays rules and chinaman was in reference to myself.(Most people on the P&R board know I am of Chinese descent) Simply put, I can take a little bit of tasteless humor directed my way.
Too be perfectly candid, I was never truly offended by Naomi's "little dicked asian" comments. What did offend me was her mean spiritness. Ethnic jokes per se don't offend me, what offends me is the mean spiritness that usually accompanies them. Even if you are successful in prohiting the speech, the hatred that underlies it still remains. I believe the hatred is the problem, not the symptom.
I disagree with your "cracker" comment as it denote class and not race. In fact the "white" trash description is a confirmation of white superiority in America. To mean everyone else is trash.
Some of the ladies who post in this forum get me more interested in them, and want to see them, due to their posts. Others I wouldn't touch with a 10 foot pole due to the hate, vitriol and venom they spew. Even if someone is a 10 in the looks and skills categories, but is a 1 on the inside, I move along. Too many fish in the sea, than to deal with that crap. And bottom line... I'm a consumer and I speak with my dollars. If a lady doesn't want to see me that's fine. That is their right and mine as well.
Congratulations on raising a son who is a 'Duke' Grad., I would be oh so proud. And you sound like a really grounded, nice woman.
Back to the topic, I am only a low volume, small time indy provider, I like to also get to know my clients somewhat prior to meeting them. That's the best approach for me personally. I can 99% of the time find something I really like about a person, and connect with them. It may just be an hour of our time together, but I want to have fun, and not feel like a 'quikie-fuck/hooker' to him, or myself.
O.k., go ahead and blast me for that statement you all, but I like to feel like I'm much more than a 'hooker',
I want to fullfill something for this person I'm with, whether it's flying from the chandelier, or fucking him senseless, or going to dinner with him. I don't want to feel insignificant to him I quess. And I would feel that way if I didn't know a thing about him, or vice versa. Of course, there have been a lot of men that it's just that way with, that's what they prefer, but it's not what I prefer. This is a business, so, yes, to a degree, I quess I do cave in under some circumstances as in that case, but NO, not if I know them to be a racist. I could 'put up' with a lot of crud, but that is fundamentally wrong.
No Blasts Here!,,,good post!
They seem to think that as long as they are laughing while making demeaning comments, it's OK. After all, it's just a joke, have a sense of humor.
They are the last ones to understand that hateful comments are unacceptable under any circumstances, and if they can tell their racist jokes to their friends, then their friends are racists too.
Here's a test - next time you tell a joke that demeans a minority, indeed any specific race or ethnic group, imagine you are telling it in a bar populated by about 50 members of that group all armed with baseball bats. Still gonna tell it?
I thought not.
Kudos to you for making the statement. Shine a light on bigots and they will scurry like cockroaches - or they will expose themselves for all to see.
In my four years here I have never seen you post. I have seen you in chat countless times.
Thanks for giving this discussion your opinion.
xoxo
Sexy
Your scenario about telling a racial joke in a bar where 50% of the patrons are armed with baseball bats will somehow get you serious assaulted or possibly killed. So what you are saying is that blacks, yes you were referring to blacks, are readily armed with weapons and are so thin skinned, so savage, so primitive that they cannot control their emotions and will resort to violence and savagely attach someone over a joke. A few words would justify a physical assault. How about the responsible black police officers, fire fighters, physicians, etc.? Would they fly into a rage and viciously attach someone who might have miss spoke? Do you think a black police officer would automatically assault someone who called him a demeaning name? It is that type of stereotypical image of blacks that is perpetuating the unjustified fear so many people have of blacks. You are the worst type of racist. You are of the liberal elite who somehow feel you are the stewards of the black race and it is your job to protect them because they are incapable of taking care of themselves. You need to be concerned about your narrow and distorted view of humanity and forget about “protecting” blacks. Blacks have made incredible strides in the 1960’s. Their accomplishments would have been unimaginable a little over fifty years ago.
I’ll give you a scenario. Someone tells a racial joke in a bar where 50% of the patrons are black. Maybe one percent would take such offense to the joke and would challenge the person telling the joke. Maybe ½ of a percent might resort to violence. The other 99% would feel the joke was either funny or in bad taste. Of those who felt the joke was in bad taste would just ignore the person who told the joke. Some would probably feel sorry for the joke teller.
Hopefully, now that we have a black president your type of distorted disguised racism will fade away. Your type is nothing but parasites using the distorted view of blacks to advance your own personal agenda. At least the typical racist doesn’t hide behind a façade.
Your reading comprehension skills are appalling. Go back and read again, perhaps there will be something you can use to ameliorate others' perception of your bigotry, but I wouldn't bet on it.
I never said 50%. I never mentioned a specific group. I never said violence would result on the part of one or all.
You're feeling quite spotlighted, aren't you?
Scurry, scurry, scurry.
I am amazed at your data you have compiled.
HA HA
In your last paragraph, you really had me there for a minute. Are you hiding behind a facade?
Go ahead Brother, and preach to the preacher. But do it on the P&R board. Stick to the topic.
In my disgust for the humor and hate remarks, I had to ask myself a hard question. When it comes down to the nitty gritty is the CHARACTER of a MAN something I take into consideration in this business?
For me the answer was yes.
Some of your humor was lost on me. Or maybe it was your buddy GAGambler. The one with the American flag? Can you explain that joke for me?
Why not post it here and explain that just like you explained this last scenario.
I really did not get that one.
But the vision you tried to share with me of our First Lady on the cover of National Geographic. I got it. But you try to force me to think that even if I could visualize that, I am as much to blame?
Hogwash
You are the
Last Comic Standing
and PS
I don't need any White Knights coming to my rescue
I can stand up for myself.
BTW
I have a four volume set by Carl Sandburg.
Abraham Lincoln
Mine were published in 1939. I cherish them. Abraham Lincoln is my hero. Next to Cal Ripken
I am sending them to President Obama. My gift to him. I hope he sends me a thank-you note. It will be for me another historical event!
I posted the original joke on the P&R Board. Was it a racially demeaning joke? That would depend of how the reader perceived the content of the joke. There were several responses, one of which was by GA who basically said he found joke humorous. Carolina zeroed in on GA by calling him a racist and bigot. No one else who thought the joke was funny or who did not condemn the joke was attacked by Carolina. In her parting shot from the P&R Board she said she was going to take her case to the GD Board because she had read GA’s posts on other boards and she wanted everyone to know that regardless of what he might have said on other boards he was a racist.
This was not an issue about GA being a racist; it is an issue between GA and Carolina. Something happened somewhere along the way between GA and Carolina that caused Carolina to start her diatribe. Most people are not racists and find racism repugnant. However, in this case Carolina became obsessive and the issue of racism took on a life of its own.
I don’t know anything Carolina other than what she has posted. Based on what she has authored in the way of responses, it is apparent she has issues of her own. It is normal to condemn racism, it is not normal to take it to the extent she has taken it. Racism happened to be the catalyst for her rage but I suspect it could have been sparked by another subject. She raved on and on about how she would never see a racist on a professional level. Do you think a black doctor would refuse to treat a racist especially if it was an emergency situation? She started a thread on this board to garner validation for her case. She needed someone to agree with her. To raise the confusion to a higher level the resident white knights and pathetic suck asses couldn’t wait to run to her defense.
What Carolina needs is to be told she got completely carried away with her attack on GA and she needs to think about her obsessive compulsive behavior. She needs honest advice, not words of comfort. Bolstering her argument is like giving a drink to an alcoholic. I sincerely hope that whatever it is that is driving her compulsion will be addressed by a professional and she makes a full recovery. Carolina seems like a very honest compassionate person who tries very hard to please her clients.
GA on the other hand is not the smoothest poster on the boards. However, in this case he really did nothing wrong. He could have rephrased his responses in a more civil manner but the fact is he is honest. I respect his opinions even though I disagree with his positions from time to time.
Please think this thread through starting from the original thread on the P&R Board through this response and you will understand what really happened. I enjoy reading opposing opinions. What I don’t like is name calling and personal attacks. Let this be a lesson for all of us.
You are defending an alias. I did insult an alias. Timbow is another alias I insulted. Aliases are a dime a dozen around here.
I felt the need to speak my mind. For me this week has been some kind of a miracle. I myself, never thought I would see a black President. And yes, I realize there are some Americans who are not fond of the idea. And yes, Kiber did not need to put down anyone else in his enthusiasm for MLK day in his post on the Carolinas board, and so the rest is history. Before that day, the only posts I had seen from Timbow and GAGambler were positive. But that changed. I followed them to the P&R board. and that is when I discovered another look into who these aliases are.
What do I owe to them?
Not only that.
Your humor is repugnant. I would have posted to you directly but your cronies seem to keep that board moving with their incredible sense of political and religious genius.
You seem to be making the case that since his real name isn't GaGambler, it's OK to attack him. True, that's not his real name any more than yours is "Sexy", but attacking you under that name could impact your ability to earn a living. Why is he entitled to less protection of his "identity"? He is known to the TER community by that name, as we all are. You made that point yourself when you first claimed that you'd ban him from your presence based upon what your opinion of him was, based upon that identity.
It seems that your ire should've been directed at Kiber for his original post, or even Balboa. I know GaGambler well enough to be certain that he'll survive your rage, but I'm curious why you feel that this is all about him.
So don't try to turn this into that. Oh yes I said those words to him. And yes he followed with some nasy caricatures of me. As did others. I am not whining about those. An alias under the general rules on here, have a gag order when it comes to flaming. Is one alias in higher standing than another? Does GAGambler get carte blanche? What about timbow? So it's okay for them to attack someone on a board using an alias, and I go out there with my reputation on the line and speak in defense for Kiber? And my reputation is on the line in every post.
There is not just one racist running around our boards. There are enough to keep you reading for days. And I wanted to know if we had a choice, would we as Ladies consider a racist or a bigot a DNS candidate. They flaunted themselves at my back door. The Carolinas board. I only followed them. And my disgust turned to anger and shame on them.
I also suspect she feels it is significantly about him because he attacks anyone who has a differing opinion like a rabid pit bull (he attacked her for her criticism of Balboa7's racist joke as if he were protecting his lover). Doubly so in this case because he and his cronies were subsequently called out for their bigoted statements. IMO, of course.
He should be all over me like a cheap suit in about 35 seconds. I'm so afraid.....
I thought they are aliases. I even stated that on the boards. They knew it.
Whether is or isn't? Does it change anything?
For me reviews attached to an alias offer credibility as a member.
I have several thousand posts on the varying boards "ALL" under the same handle. Dozens if not hundreds of people on TER know my "real" name, not my handle but my "real" name. I have hosted M&G's in the past, and I stand behind everything I have ever posted. (including the stupid ones)
I defy you to find a racist post I have ever made. Before you go out and try to "ruin" MY reputation on TER, I suggest you do a little research and quit just making assumptions based on your own preconceived predjudices.
not realizing that you are one. I mean an Asian. I can't vouch for the little dick, LOL.
trying to give her the BOD. alas she responded with more unrelated bullshit and never answered my very direct and very simple question.
The only conclusion I can draw is that she came on the P&R board, like her friend Kiber with the intentions of picking a fight. I have thousands of posts and I defy her or anyone else to prove me a racist. I have never made a single post under any other name than GaGambler, my record over the last four plus years stands for itself.
As far as the little dick goes. I am sure that is TMI as far as you are concerned. or at least I hope you don't really want to know. LOL
all men with little dicks. . .
Well at least the ones that are Asian.
all the way through.
Now I don't know about the joke or the banter on the other boards in reference to this post but for the most part it was interesting.
i don't care one way or the other. People learn to be racist, it's like religion people have to to learn both. I have met both religious and racist people. I once knew a racist who married a woman of color and I have met religious scientists. Human beings can choose to adapt to almost anything that they want to. I can be a bigot today,
a liberal tomorrow and say fuck it all the next day just because I feel like it and still be me. Most humans humans have this same ability, I urge you all to use it.
I don’t know why you are so bitter and defensive, but I hope whatever the causation is it’s transitory and not permanent. I think you over reacted in your initial response on the P&R Board and everything went downhill from that point on. The more aggressively defensive you became, the further you pushed yourself into the proverbial “corner.” I think we have all been in that position at one time or another. You don’t need to further justify your feelings about racism. Your view on racism is more the norm than the exception. Sometimes out of frustration we tend to use bizarre examples to get the point across. When we reflect on what we said we realize that the message we were trying to convey was terribly distorted and not what we wanted to say at all. I cannot speak for anyone on this board other than myself but I don’t believe anyone wanted to attack you as a person regardless how harsh the delivery might have been. I always welcome differing opinions and often feel enlightened by listening to opposing viewpoints. However, as a matter of policy I don’t respond to personal attacks.
At any rate, whatever it is that is bothering you I hope it’s temporary. I wish you only the best and now and in the future.
and there are STILL places in the DEEP south where black citizens still have to use the back door, ride in the back of the bus, and still not allowed in a bar with the good ole jackasses, ohhh i mean boys!! THATS whats amazing!!
You know what i found out by doing what I do for a living??? when i cut someone open, we all look the same inside, and we all bleed red blood!!
There is SHIT Garbage in every single race and i'm so fucking tired of all the lines that are drawn by pig headed closed minded morons!
Just my damn opinion
Jay
How is Obama supposed to ride on a bus?
Black half in the back, white half in the front?
I know, that's a pretty stupid joke.
Just like blacks still have to ride in the back of the bus, lol.
True, this Half black perspective baffles me, particulary from "mixed" blacks themselves. Tiger Woods rightfully expressed his mixed heritages but did it so that it sounded like he was denying the fact that he was not "black" in term of what other view him. It was not until someone told him bluntly, I did not matter how mixed he was, he still would not have been allowed in the Masters 30 years before he won it.
who cares
I actually don't think a bigot would see me if he is indeed a bigot.
But if a bigot would see me and espoused hateful remarks, well that's just a turn off in the general sense. I can't get aroused that way to say the least. That would be a very uncomfortable session.
While racisim is not dead as some people in the world belive it is (some not all), I'm not shocked that some people said hateful things. Actually they probably work with minorities and this is the only forum they are able to spew vitriolic utterences (other than their private surroundings) and feel confident behind a computer screen. I truly belive everyone is entitiled to their opinion and I'm so happy that I am a lucky enough provider to pick and choose who I see.
So the answer is no I would not want to spend time with a bigot. I prefer to spend time with positive upbeat gentlemen. And since 100% of my clients are caucasian and very good to me, I have no room for negative racist people of any race or ethnicity.
Mackenzi : ))
I agree and it good that you and the others stand up and say I will not tolerate being disrepected because of money. Remember blacks come in so many flavors because the white master had his way with the slave girl who he would then not recognize her or her children (hence Thomas Jefferson and Sally Hemmings)
another comment to the side, 100% of your clients are white? I know you do not discriminate against brothers but why is that?
Oh gosh no, I don't discriminate at all : ))
It just works out that way. Those are all of my clients. They are the ones who always contact me. I adore all of my gentlemen friends from every background, of course.
Mackenzi