I understand what you’re saying and empathize to a certain extent, but can I ask why the tables shouldn’t be turned towards the providers? We’re the ones in business selling ourselves. We have to pay for ads, physical appearance upkeep, hotels, website hosting, travel, etc. and clients/money/steady business are STILL not guaranteed especially in this day and age of SW. All clients have to do is be thorough and respectful in the booking process and show up with the donation. Why should the tables be turned in favor of that group?
If you've been around for all the fun old-school years, do you enjoy the hobby life more now, or way back when?
Sorry for grammar, or errors. I just typed my thoughts quickly as I pack up to move. I'm reminded that I did this before in 2005. Some areas are not good to reside in if you enjoy this lifestyle.
Started about fifteen years ago and feel it is not what it once was.
There is inflation of rates beyond actual inflation
Seems like every FS provider I encountered was professional
There was more professional behavior on the client side also
Large increase in upgrade offerings when the GFE used to be GFE and the massage were massage and hopefully upgrade.
Lastly see less quality overall in the top tens and few new younger providers claiming those positions
Generally speaking, I’m enjoying the lifestyle now just as much as I ever have. The women I’ve met over the past year or two have been incredible as there seems to be an almost endless supply of attractive, warm, and talented providers. I feel genuinely fortunte to have had so many positive experiences, and I don’t take them for granted. But I also live in the provider paradise region, that is the NYC to DC corridor, so that is a big help.
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That said, there’s another side to it. The downsides feel more pronounced now than at any point outside of the COVID period of course. Prices have risen significantly, verification requirements have become more demanding, and since COVID & Sesta-Fosta, there’s been an influx of less experienced women who don’t always follow the traditions and norms established by more experiencd providers who proceeded them.
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So while I still thoroughly enjoy the dates themselves, the process leading up to them has become more challenging. Sorting through profiles, determining whether someone is genuinely available or just looking to increase their OF numbers, finding someone that ofers the type of experiences I’m looking for, who communicates professionally, and won’t require overly intrusive verification, etc it all makes the lifestyle noticeably more difficult to navigate these days.
Last sentence, first paragraph says it all. I live in another large city that doesn’t draw very good. I don’t know and can only guess. I’d be broke if I lived where you do!
I definitely feel it’s worse. There are two primary reasons for me. One is price. Other is cons.
Back when I started, finding a high end provider was reasonable for my wallet. Nowadays, I find I have to settle. Alternatively, I could see providers less often and spend more per session. Neither is as ideal as 15 years ago. And, just because I pay more, doesn’t mean she will be better. That’s a harder pill to swallow when I am cutting my frequency down. Now, if it’s a bad date, I need to wait longer before trying again.
And then there are the cons. There have always been some. But it seems these have increased significantly. I find I have to spend a lot more time researching to make sure I won’t be conned. I can’t even trust half the TER reviews these days.
If I am being completely honest, there are days where I consider quitting the hobby. But it hasn’t come to this yet. I love fucking too much.
I knew that this thread was going to be filled with a bunch of hobbyists complaining about rates increasing. I don’t even know why Queen Bia asked this question. The prices of EVERYTHING have increased over the past 10+ years so why wouldn’t providers’ rates? This job is risky, stigmatized, dangerous, and most of all ILLEGAL. No one is going to put their livelihood and reputation on the line for the same price for the entirety of their career in sex work. This may be a hobby for you, but it’s a BUSINESS for us. We are not here to make every client feel comfortable and fuzzy inside. This is WORK and we have bills to pay. Either rise to the occasion or fall off and make room for the men who get it.
You and your blank filling in, AGAIN. I answered the question that was asked honestly. In no way was that a COMPLAINT. But you are so jumpy anytime someone says anything but sunshine and flowers about rates, you just start running to the Department of Complaints. The wildest part about your attitude over rates is that YOUR rates are cheap AF. You, and any other provider, has the free will to charge what you want. And, I have the free will to have spending limits and feel the impact of increasing rates. Not everyone who hobbies has an endless supply of cash. Increasing rates has real impacts on some of us. My total spend is my total spend. I'm not going broke for this hobby. So, the market goes up, and I adjust. I'm not creating threads about it. But if someone asks a question that leads to it, I'm not going to hide under a rock and pretend it has not impacted my experience.
Queen asked a question and I answered. Her rates are what they are and most likely assume she as a professional provider in the hobby is as busy as she wants or needs to be . Her approach to customers/friends/clients though is different then yours as I feel that she feels that “it is her job to make every client feel warm and fuzzy i side and do enough screening in the process to enjoy herself at the same time”
As clients we are spending money to enjoy ourselves for a period of time
We worked to pay bills for years and make a value judgement of what to pay for whomever we see. So if Queen is happy and busy enough at 1000 and her clients are willing to pay —if you were offering at the same level at your rate should have lines like Walmart on Black Friday opening coming to see you.
You know exactly what I meant when I said that providers are not here to make all clients feel fuzzy inside. I’m not saying that we shouldn’t treat our clients with respect and make them feel appreciated, but rather that we’re not here to lower our standards and bend over backwards so clients feel like we’re “worthy” of our requirements and not asking for too much. As much as a provider may respect and adore her clients, if she decides that low rates no longer serve her, it’s not her business to accept less money and put herself through more trouble so they see her as the “cool provider” who’s not “difficult” like the others.
Where were you asked to accept less money? If you want to keep your dance card full rate needs to be based on a combination of level of services , looks, and chemistry.
Nowhere did I ask you to do anything not comfortable doing but sense you feel that you should be receiving g more then your rate . Well then raise it and see how many return vs one and done.
Your client is the customer and does not need to be demeaned by you as being cheap but at the same time is making a comparison as to the best return on his dollar.
Maybe as a prospective customer my choice would be to see you for three one hour sessions or Queen for one hour .
With you sense of entitlement and her stellar revues and attitude would swing me to the hour of bliss then three separate session of feeling unappreciated while getting my rocks off.
Maybe if if you are still around providing in a couple of years you ay understand what I am saying.
Prices are way up. I look at some of the ladies ans see rates of 5-6K for 2 Hours. And the providers don't look that hot and the reviews aren't that spectacular. I've found several providers that post regularly here (not you queen) that make it seem through their posts like they are GFE/PSE. They have good reviews. Prices are 800-1.2K per hr. When you get in the door, they don't look like their pictures, a couple have been drunk, and their idea of GFE is more like the "Wife Experience". There are a few "old favorites" that still provide great service but in general I think its more of a crapshoot. Why don't I "review" them properly then? Retaliation. They have our personal info and can doxx you or blacklist you with a totally fictional reason. Tryst is worthless, want to get scammed, book from Tryst. I don't believe most of the reviews. Three times now in the last eight months providers have listed anal available on their bio, on their website, and have been reviewed as providing that service. After the envelope is on the table, it doesn't happen. "Oh, sorry, I think you're too big. "Oh, I only do that after I've seen you five or six times". (meaning a 5-6K investment) are a couple of the excuses. The 1k per hour and up providers are competing for the group of men that literally can afford anything. One or two weekend fmty's a month with a shopping spree at some high end stores and they are set. But, that group of clients are very particular and can be very demanding. I'm not sure how big that client pool is, but presently it seems to be quite large. That's my take.
Is that where you put up with her obnoxious bougie friends at an overpriced dinner, get turned down for sex when you get home, and quietly rub one out while watching porn in the garage?
Great points ya'll. As a new guy with a good wallet I ran about to learn. So much to learn. Have had some of the same experiences as many for sure. So many scammers. I now have my rules for what I will and won't has served me best. Not the providers. Limits my picks but, seeing where it has been to where it is now, I know I am making better choices.
You know all they’re going to do is complain about rates with a sprinkle of lip service about “quality and professionalism” to make it seem like they’re upset about anything other than having to pay more. That’s the only issue they have. They want 10/10 big tittie blondes to fuck them for $300 an hour. Those days are over if they ever existed in the first place.
Money is an issue, no doubt, but there have been MANY other changes and new challenges in the last few years and none of them have gone the gents way, imho.
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In every issue I can think of, the benefit has gone the providers way. I am actually not complaing about those facts, as I still greatly enjoy the lifestyle. Through the benefit of hindsight, clients had the tables tilted in our direction from the day I started until about 2020-21 or so, and the pendulum has shifted.
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But lets not make this ONLY about money, bc I can tell you from my own personal opinion, and speaking to MANY gents behind the secenes, that just isnt the case.
I understand what you’re saying and empathize to a certain extent, but can I ask why the tables shouldn’t be turned towards the providers? We’re the ones in business selling ourselves. We have to pay for ads, physical appearance upkeep, hotels, website hosting, travel, etc. and clients/money/steady business are STILL not guaranteed especially in this day and age of SW. All clients have to do is be thorough and respectful in the booking process and show up with the donation. Why should the tables be turned in favor of that group?
And I also want to point out that the dynamic of SW was more beneficial for clients pre covid because clients were not on the bullshit that they are in 2026. Before covid, business was booming, money was flowing like water, there were far less time wasters and fantasy bookers, you could just throw up a simple ad on backpage and make thousands, the majority of clients were straight to the point, etc.
Today on the other hand… business is much slower because of the economy, every other inquiry is from a fantasy booker, clients are stingier, you have to build a following on social media to legitimize yourself, you have to have top tier ads and photos, and the general overhead costs of being a provider like incall hosting are higher than ever before. On no planet should we have to do all of these things to remain in business and not be in the one up position. If more clients were on the ball and not so finicky and if there were less time wasters, maybe things could go back to the way they were.
Two reasons for this: The most important is experience that I've gained over the last 50 years of doing this. No substitute for that.
The second is technology, especially cell phones and the internet. They make things so much easier. I'd have to give a nod to Viagra as well, given my age.
That is a major benefit. I can’t imagine starting out new now. So many more issues to navigate and more risk to assess.
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That said, QB said 10-20 years ago and girls had internet sites then and cell phones were widely owned. So in that context would you say it’s better now, all things considered? Curious to your thoughts with those parameters reset. Thanks in advance.
My problem is my mind considers 10 20 years as a blink of the eye rather than ages as you young-uns would presume. I became a sex purchaser back in the days of weekly trade papers and phone booths. How I made it work is still a puzzle to me.
Going back to the year 2006, I think it was easer to find good escorts as TER was in its prime, and alternatives that used social media sites were in their infancy. I have never been a social media fan, and in fact there was a dictum back then to stay off of social media as these sites were popular with children, and therefore should be taboo to our slice of the world.
Obviously, this advice did not hold, for better or worse.
I still find that using TER to find good escorts is possible, if not as convenient as before. I'm an old dog and don't intend to learn new tricks.
to find my first escorting job. Just opened them up to "Escort Agencies" and started calling. This was before I even owned a cell phone 🤭😅😂😮💨
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Either the escort or massage listings were a good place to find someone, but often an agency rather than an indy as was my preference.
Oft times some kill-joy ripped all the pages with the escort and massage ads out of the book. How would they have liked it if I ripped the Ten Commandments out of the Gideons' Bible?
No bid deal really, I just went down to the desk where they always had plenty of Yellow Books in store.
Yellow pages were like the hidden gems of escorts back in the day. We hired a stripper for my buddies 18th birthday. It was lap dances and sucking whipped cream off her titties for all. At the tail end, she asked if the birthday boy wanted to fuck her. He was overwhelmed and passed. Then she asked if any of us were interested, or even a few of us. I am sure a few of us secretly wanted to say yes, but no one wanted to be the first to say yes.
Honestly such a good question and one I think about more than I probably should. The honest answer is that everything changed: the market, the clients, and all of us. Nothing changes in a vacuum. The version of all of us when we started had different expectations, different reference points, and a different tolerance for friction. Nostalgia is real but it's mostly nostalgia for what is known as the "pristine beginning" of something you're just getting into. The past isn't always better.
I did enjoy Old Ranger's point about clients having more professional behavior. I find it interesting because I think what actually happened is the client base got bigger and more varied. And with more variance means more of everything. We get more great clients and more people who don't know how to act. It cuts both ways generationally too. Younger clients, I have found, need more hand holding on etiquette but are often more respectful once they have it. Older clients need less explaining but sometimes confuse their experience in this realm with entitlement/arrogance. Usually a polite but firm reframing resets the tone for both ends of the spectrum. Nobody has a monopoly on decorum.
Which is also why screening and verification are what they are now. We didn't build all of that because we enjoy paperwork. One bad actor poisons the well and the cons run in both directions. While clients are sorting through fake ads and who to trust, we're building intake systems because of what a handful of clients made necessary. Same mess, different side of it. The simpler era some of you are mourning was simpler because the industry was also smaller and way less visible. You can't have that back without the conditions that created it, and that means clients voting in provider interests when legislation comes up. Yet most don't. And since we can't put that back in the box, here we are.
With respect to rates, everything costs more including the actual cost of running this business. I won't get into the weeds because y'all have heard it all before (and I know you get it even if you don't like hearing it) but like any business, everything is built into the rate (re: what you're paying for isn't just the rate). And while I genuinely do feel bad that wages are not keeping pace with real world costs, that's not a problem providers created or can solve. That being said, this realm is a luxury, not a utility.
As a provider, something that has genuinely changed for the worse is that we're expected to basically be lifestyle influencers now. So much has to be out there for public consumption just to be taken seriously or seen as legitimate. The benefit is real: clients who find me through substack or twitter already understand how I think before they reach out, and that does make for better alignment. But maintaining all of those platforms is its own job, and if you're doing it solo because you value the personal touch, the burnout is quiet in a way that doesn't get talked about enough. And after all of that... the substack, the instagram, the twitter, 90+ reviews across multiple sites, someone will still be right at the edge of booking and ask "are you real" after following for three years. I don't have a response for that anymore. I just laugh and keep it moving.
The client base definitely grew a lot, especially once COVID stopped being seen as the major health threat it was at the beginning. After vaccines became widely available, and things started reopening, there was a big surge of activity in the lifestyle, certainly the biggest I have ever seen in almost 2 decades of experience.
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That growth wasn’t just older clients coming back to what they enjoyed. A lot of new people entered the lifestyle later because they simply couldn’t during the height of COVID due to obvious health concerns , which created a large amount of pent up demand.
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At the same time, some more experienced clients, myself included as an exmple, had more disposable income, as we didn’t spend any of it on this realm during COVID, so we/they ended up participating more than then we would normally once vaccines became widely available.
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On the supply side, COVID also pushed a number of women out of the demimonde. Some moved into more stable income, e.g. remote careers, and others shifted into things like camming or OF and never came back to P4P, or came back with much less time to invest in in-person dates. All of that together created a clear and massive imbalance i.e. all-time higher demand, but lower in-person supply.
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That said, a lot of the frustration about pricing isn’t just about COVID or general inflation caused by it. Many clients feel like prices didn’t just rise… they jumped way faster than inflation could possibly explain. In some cases, rates doubled in just a few years, which naturally creates pushback, even from people who fully understand that prices naturally go up over time.
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From a basic economic point of view, it makes sense that providers charge more if they can. Any person will raise prices when demand is strong, and sex work is no different. There’s nothing unusual about that. The guys who complain about rising prices would certainly do the same if the situation were reversed.
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At the same time, Paige, you are not just a SW, you are also a consumer of many different products and services, I’m sure. So I am certain you understand why people feel frustrated when something they were paying X for not too long ago now cost not just 10-20% more, but 100–150% more for essentially the same thing in just a few years.
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I agree that this is a luxury service for most, but not all. But some people feel like it’s become a luxury where prices have risen faster than other high end goods and services. For example, something like a new Lexus hasn’t come close to doubling in price for a similarly equipped model over just a few years. When I go on vacation, I like staying at the Ritz when I can, and I can certainly tell you their prices have risen, but not anywhere near the percentage equivalent of what many high-end providers have increased their rates to.
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At the end of the day, providers should charge what they feel their time is worth, and some base that purely on their own personal standards rather than market pressure. Some are financially independent, have other income, or just set a firm number and stick to it. Good for them, I say. Who wouldnt want to be in thier shoes?
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Mostly though, this is just clients talking through their frustration with other people in the same predicament. There’s something a bit therapeutic about that, the same way providers certainly vent about clients sometimes in their own circles, and even on these very same boards at times.
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I just think it works better when both sides try to understand where the other is coming from. It’s easy for these conversations to turn into “us vs. them,” but in realty, both sides depend on each other, so it’s more of a symbiotic relationship than a conflict, at least thats the way i envision it.
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I hope this comes across as me not disagreeing with you, but just more fully explaining what some are experiencing on the client side. In my experience, this realm used to be primerily a buyer’s market, and in my opinion, it has drastically shifted into a seller’s one. That change has happened in very short period of time, and people are just voicing their frustrations over such a shock to the sysstem.
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That’s totally human, as long as the frustration doesn’t turn into rage or unprofessionalism toward any individual provider, for like I said, that same client would do exactly the same thing with their pricing if they were selling a product or service, if they could.
I appreciate the thoughtfulness here and the Covid supply and demand breakdown is actually the most accurate economic explanation I've seen in any of these threads. So, you're not wrong about any of that and I want to be clear I'm not dismissing the frustration underneath it either. Prices moving faster than people's wallets can absorb is a real thing. Also the whiplash of that happening in a compressed timeframe is also real.
However, I will gently push back on the Lexus and the Ritz comparison because it's a false equivalence and doesn't hold and it matters why. A Lexus is a manufactured good with supply chains, raw materials, labor costs, and competitors producing near identical products at scale. A Ritz-Carlton hotel room is a standardized product that can be sold every night to a new person indefinitely with relatively predictable overhead. Neither involves the seller absorbing personal legal risk, physical risk, reputational risk, the standard operating costs in addition to the operating costs of being in an entirely unregulated and criminalized industry with no labor protections, no insurance, no recourse, and no ability to openly market via say... Google Ads. The rate isn't just the hour. It's the risk premium on top of everything else, and that doesn't have a clean comparison in the luxury goods market because nothing else in the luxury goods market carries that particular cost structure.
On the buyer's market versus seller's market framing, I'd also like to push back on that slightly. We do agree that there's been a shift but I would argue, as I have been for the last year, that the market has segmented. It has not flipped.
There is still a very real and VERY accessible "buyer's market". Again, we are in a K-shaped economy. And that means the providers who can are going to raise rates and go high-end ($1000+/hr) will, the providers who prefer volume and/or want to be spoiled for choice are going to stay in the "buyer's market" ($600/hr and under), and the mid-range ($700-$900/hr) is going to be squeezed. Conflating all of them is part of why the frustration lands where it does. People feel like the whole market moved when really the ceiling moved and the floor, for the most part, didn't. And it's worth noting these numbers can change depending on the market.
Truly, I believe, if we're being honest, a lot of the animosity isn't really about prices in general. It's about having access to a specific tier of provider that used to feel more within reach. And when a particular type of provider knows what she can command and prices her time accordingly, the frustration that follows is really about access but it sometimes comes out as a quality argument. So, the arguments we hear are "no one is worth x" or "they have GPS" or some variance of that. But the word "worth" is doing a lot of work in and I think most people know it. If the rate were lower, the quality argument would disappear pretty quickly.
What I find most interesting is what happens when we flip the question to clients. And you actually touched on this yourself. Most will say they would do exactly the same thing. Start accessible, build something, raise rates accordingly. That's just how any business works. And yet when providers do it, it reads as the market getting worse rather than a business maturing. I don't think that's malicious, I just think it's easier to see the logic clearly when you're the one setting the price.
One last reframe I'd like to give, and I say this with genuine warmth, is the framing around how providers set their rates. "What they feel their time is worth" and "financially independent so they can afford to" are both real, but they're not the whole picture and I think they undersell what's actually happening. Although this is anecdotal data, the vast majority of providers I know are making data driven decisions. We track conversion, we watch retention, we test rates, we adjust. We raise rates when the data supports it and we pull back rates when it doesn't. While I prefer to surround myself with colleagues who love this work because of how personal it is, we also recognize that on the backend this is a business and most of us are running it like one. The "good for them" framing is kind, but I think it assumes a little more "vibes" and a little less strategy and a "good head for business" than is actually going on behind the scenes.
And you're right that it's symbiotic. That part I agree with completely. And if it means anything, I read the discussion boards often to stay up to date on how some demographics of this world are feeling. But like anything, I don't speak for every provider and TER doesn't speak for every client. We are only a representation of some on respective sides. That said, both sides venting in their respective corners is just human, as long as it stays there and doesn't turn into something directed at individuals. Which, to your credit, this didn't.
One thing I'd like to bring up is agism. Since it was time, I moved myself up to the over 50 age group. I see contemporaries still sitting in the 46-50 age group who are 70+.
I see and feel the agism on the GDB and in my bookings. I am super low volume (yeh really) now, but my rates don't reflect that. I've been GFE since the get go, but a lot of gents want more of a PSE from GFE now, IMO.
Until you posted what you thought mid-range was and that was for more higher volume I realize I'm under selling myself. I've thought this before. Luckily, I get extended dates more often than not. I have friends (clients here) that would balk at an increase and honestly, I love spending time with them.
I done some small increases throughout the years but I'm thinking most here would see my rates as reasonable. I've enjoyed not having a 1 hr rate for years and I don't see that changing.
My reviews speak for themselves and have been consistent over the years.
Steph XO
-- Modified on 4/25/2026 10:27:55 AM
Steph, the ageism piece doesn't get talked about honestly enough and I'm glad you brought it up. The age bracket misrepresentation thing is a real problem because it skews the market for everyone who is actually being straight about where they sit. It's so frustrating.
The PSE observation is real too. I've watched it happen and I think it's a combination of the client base expanding, porn, providers feeling like they have to do more to stay competitive, and platforms just... blurring everything together until the categories don't mean what they used to. Again, I think this is another market drift problem. But it is worth deciding whether you want to absorb it or hold your own personal line.
I will say I clocked it and honestly it's what pushed me to build out separate experience tiers with rates that reflect each one. The idea actually came from another business I own, albeit catered toward women, where we had the exact same issue. Our clients were confused, and us and the clients felt put on the spot, and there was always this weird undercurrent of negotiation happening mid-appointment. Once we created clear service tiers it just went away. Clients self select, nobody's surprised, nobody's having an awkward conversation about what's included while we're supposed to be having a good time. I tested it in this business last year, it worked just as well, and I haven't looked back.
And finally, about our respective clients. I adore my clients too. I genuinely do. I text with them, I check in on them, I look forward to seeing them. That part is real and I'd never tell you to pretend it isn't. But I grandfathered a client in at my old rate for two years. When I raised my rates I went to him and said, "Look, you've been seeing me once a month, you've been loyal, I'm going to do $700 instead of $800 for you." That man acted like I was the antichrist. He pitched a fit over a hundred dollars after two years of being grandfathered. And that told me everything I needed to know about how he valued me and my time.
Loyalty goes both ways and a modest increase after years of consistency isn't betrayal. You own a business, you're allowed to let yours grow and they should want it to.
And oft times needed, so let me clarify a few previous points and address some of yours.
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Let me start by addressing the Lexus and Ritz analogies. You’re absolutely right in that they are fundamentally different from sex work and rates within. I only introduced those comparisons because you had framed P4P as a luxury (rightfully so, of course) and since we were discussing pricing, I reached for two brands often times associated with extravagance.
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My intent wasn’t to directly equate them with sex work economics, but simply to highlight that, to my knowldge, no other luxury category has experienced such percentage price increases at the same pace we have seen in this lifestyle, and that is where the frustration comes in for clients. IOW, this time it’s not your typical “she’s too damn much $” rant, but rather “her fees have exploded beyond anything I can relate to in my personal life.”
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Now, it doesn’t mean that those price hikes aren’t valid, as the provider decides what is, and what is not, valid, but still, the consumer is warranted in pointing this dramatic spike out, and even bemoaning the fact as that is the client’s right and again, it’s only human to do so. With greatly higher rates in any field, come greater expectations and closer scrutiny, I would argue. As long as someone is respectful in expressing those thoughts, that is.
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You’re also correct about market fragmentation, as I tend to speak from the perspective of the upper end of the market, which is where I usually play. That said, there are other segments within p4p where I occasionally partake where pricing has remained remarkably stable. Let’s look at New Jersey as an example, situated between New York City and Philadelphia. One might expect pricing to reflect those two adjacent markets.
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In reallity, that’s not what happened. There’s a long running website (that I am not allowed to mention here) that focuses almost exclusively on that very specific, statewide region. For well over a decade, rates for that market have remarkably stayed within a very narrow range i.e. roughly $350–$400/hr. The major external factors mentioned in my previous reply to you, i.e. COVID & Sesta/Fosta, in addition to other economic booms/downturns, have had little to no impact on the pricing consistency there. It’s genuinely remarkable actually, and your point about the K-shaped economy fits well in partially explaining that, among other local factors.
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On a separate note, I’ve been publicly consistent in my disdain of the “GPS” label. Beyond being overtly misogynistic, it’s also deeply hypocritical. I don’t know a single person who would voluntarily price their own goods or services below what the market will bear. That basic principle is a core feature of how free markets function, though that’s probably a broader discussion for another time.
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Finally, I want to clarify that I wasn’t speaking about the entire market when I made comments about how some providers set their rates based on what they feel their time is worth. I was referring specifically to a small subset at the high end, some of whom still engage in TER and accept reviews here, while many others have fled, obviously. In that narrow slice, trditional supply and demand rules don’t always apply in a conventionnal way.
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Many of these providers aren’t reliant on the income and may approach pricing from a completely different set of priorities. Now, I certainly dont believe, nor ever believed, that they are representative of the majority, or even plurality, as it’s a very tiny slice of the overall market, and I guess I should have made that more clear previously.
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Thanks for your time Paige. It is always enlightening to get your take as you are so thoughtful, clearly well informed and extremely intelligent.
The GPS label is first and foremost about attitude
You can have a provider with GPS whose services are very cheap compared to the mean. And you can have a provider who is very high priced with zero GPS.
GPS is really a combination of hubris and being patronizing/snobby.
I wont tell you otherwise. But MANY men use it as a way to tell us all she is overpriced, in their opinion. They mention it only, or almost only, with regards to her rate. I have literally seen it hundreds and hundreds of time on this specific board and many others.
How can that be the case when the clients who have a habit of accusing certain providers of having GPS have usually never even seen those providers and know nothing about their personalities? For the vast majority of clients, “GPS” is 100% about “high rates” and pretty much nothing else. Don’t gaslight Robert.
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Your attitude on the forum is an example of GPS, and it's not because of your rates.
1) easier to find ladies
2) the stigma of P2P has greatly decreased - thus fine women that would have done been available in the past are now open to meeting / arrangements
3) the explosion of Sugar Baby sites --- upside, those ladies tend to be less transactional and more passionate as its something they want to do for their own pleasure ... downside, it takes time and work to find someone appropriate
4) BBFS more common - you can argue that better and worse - enough said
5) wives - many are starting to get it and can separate sex is just sex ... but this is still a work in progress
6) but meeting on the internet can still be dangerous .. point in case that's how i met my wife! 
First I think the attitude towards sex workers have changed for the better. With onlyfans being normalized, a lot of escorting started to be considered normal. The young generation growing up sees these powerful influencers, sports stars and wealthy people they look up to, employ escort service.
And the "family values" propaganda machine has a hard time fighting it, especially with so many single males and less and less marriages happening.
Overall the attitude towards working women has shifted from looking down to almost acceptable (albeit illegal) in our society. That's a big W for the biz.
With guys who buy sex (us) it's not as rapid but I do see it changing. We're still looked down on as losers and creeps but again like I've said it's slowly changing. It's more and more difficult to create narratives that make regular people who buy sexual services into some freaks or monsters..
The new generation inability to get laid also plays into this. A lot of guys with money but not being able to get laid causes frustration with the system.
This explosion of escort type of modeling on IG (the term ig thot was coined for a reason) also introduced a wider audience that is less cynical than us who have been hobbying for years, know value and are able to contrast and compare with cons. That's also good for working girls but ALSO that inflated egos of so many providers who already had GPS.
This imo was the real start of the whole "slobbyist" nonsense.
When there are simp-filled echo chambers where any criticism is just suppressed and internet OF stuff can make these girls millions, many providers despise dealing with us - guys who rely and cherish acrual reviews, who "nitpick" but also are the ones whom they relied on making money when things were tough for them.
While it's not surprising that people would rather get flattery instead of real criticism and have simps worship them, it does kinda bring up a question of whether some provides even like or respect their clients as consumers and not just atm machines with legs.
Also the normalization of providers to shit on clients publicly, often exposing their identity without equivalent pushback, has led to many a GPS issue.
I make this judgment based on the 20 year arc. If you asked me about 30 years ago, there is NO comparison. 30 years ago it was like the Dark Ages. The fucking Dark Ages!
I'll leave to others the unending debate over rates. To me, this is a "nice to have", so when the median base rate in LA rises to 1k, adieu P4P.
As for the larger question, remember that 20 years ago the internet was still pretty new for a lot of people. There were scams and frauds. Mostly, there was a limited selection of ladies, even in the City of Angels. The websites were often shit (remember clicking on a provider ad and having loud, obnoxious music instantly blaring?) and TER was still unknown to many players. Don't get me wrong, there were a couple of bookers who repped some delightful ladies (anyone else remember "Break 4 Lunch"?), and some fabulous independents (I'm looking at you Kiwigirl). What made it a blast was that screening and scheduling were super, SUPER easy compared to today and that allowed me to see lots of girls (it was not unheard of for me to P4P 3x in a week and I once saw 3 in a day (2 were part of a duo)).
Having said that, I've seen more gorgeous ladies post-pandemic than I can count; there have been some truly stunning women under, above and engulfing me in the last 5 years. And--key for me--the number of hot women who do duos is exponentially greater than 20 years ago. Yes, screening and scheduling are MUCH more difficult, but OMG the women who play with women have made it a worthwhile tradeoff. It was rare to find a good (good = the women have real and real nasty sex with each other) duo 20 years ago; I've had outstanding good fortune with duos in the past 10 and especially in the last 5. That includes the 2 honies I watched ravish each other just a couple of days ago. I'm good with the present.
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Are we getting a review of this one?
Already reviewed them. This was yet another session (4th, 5th?) with them.
With the ability to go raw without it being complete rissian roulette is one of the best things to happen to the hobby.
Those complaining about pricing need to simply make more money. When you have to question whether you can afford this is when you have to question how much of a sex addict you really are.
No need to be negative. I consider myself a dinosaur in this industry. I've been around a long time & I just lowered my rates. I will probably do it again because I am bored. I have not been busy in years. If you look at my reviews 90 in over twenty years is low.
I used to really love this hobby lifestyle. For the past several years I have been extremely selective on whom I share my energy with. I believe everyone's lifestyles play a major part in this hobby. My life for the past few years has been the Matriarch & caregiver for my better half. Now that I am moving back to my hood I feel it will get better. ❤️🩹
I have never been jaded by this industry. I see many providers who get burned out. I have never because I don't cater to everyone who reaches out. I find having a same interest makes the experience better. I like to know we're compatible. Money is not everything. Yes it pays the bills. I have shared time with many people on this board who could not pay my regular rates at a discount because we share the same core values, so we're all not the same. I am here to make friends hopefully for life!
And opened up some really good conversation. Kudos Queen!
Steph XO
You are certainly a delightful woman to spend time with. The fact that you've been at it so long without being burned out is amazing.
This is a thought provoking thread! There are so many ways in which it's better. Being naive and impressionable in my 20s, I used to undervalue myself and offer cocktail / dinner dates for around how much I currently charge for an hour.
Beyond the financial aspects, I have a significantly more attuned sense of who I am and how I want to navigate the world than I did a decade ago. In ways that are subtle or even perceptible to those who're paying attention, I think that manifests while sharing space with me. I enjoy meeting new clients. Still, there is something so special about deepening bonds with a suitor who has met me over the span of time I've been a companion.
Of course there are the benefits of physical intimacy and gaining more understanding about each other's tastes and temperaments. There are so many delightful little things about knowing someone for years that are intensified (maybe because of the secrecy) within the context of a client companion dynamic. I recently saw a fave and he has a few photos of me stored from several years ago. It was such a fun time travel moment to be reminded of them and see them. My desire to nurture these genuine connections determines to some extent where I tour and return to.
All that said, the things that have gotten way worse in my opinion mostly have to do with the administrative aspects of this work. Tryst will never fully replace Backpage. The fatigue of constantly having to figure out new social media sites and platforms is something I personally find frustrating. I'm actually very introverted and I do not usually think in quippy 299 character long statements so I'm not looking forward to needing to post dozens of times daily and triple or quadruple my current Bluesky following before I finally find out how useful it might be for me.
I'm also still not over the pandemic era OF boom and the pressure to constantly churn out high production value porn from the latest iPhone / DSLR. I signed up to be a companion. I might have slutty exhibitionist moments when I want to make explicit videos, but that's only every once in a while. I have an immense amount of respect and admiration for companions who are also expert content creators and sellers. I vicariously wish them all the success! And also I'm still confused about the shift where producing a steady flow of clips is seen as almost a mandated part of in-person sex work. Lastly, the aggressive uptick in anti-sex work sentiment and the push for ID verification laws is worrisome.
With quite a few loaded shotguns firing off on it.
This is (as with so many other topics) a matter of perspective. Although the last almost decade has been so tumultuous, I can't imagine anyone having a very positive view of the hobby or any other aspect of our lives. The good ole days weren't always so good. What makes most people pine for the way things were is that the process was simpler. It's ironic that the more time passes, the more complicated life becomes. Not for a few. Not for some. But for all. Even with all of our brilliant technological advancements, there is so much more being asked of all of us on a daily basis. So much more being required of us. So many more responsibilities and so many more proverbial balls to juggle. Quite frankly it's exhausting.
I've talked about this a number of times here, so I won't drone on and on about it. But once upon a time, I would send an email, set a date and time, go to the incall, get laid, and leave. Done. And it wasn't all that long ago. Safety is important. I would never begrudge any person for wanting to create a more safe environment for themselves. And I was always surprised at how many women engaged in this line of work knowing the obvious risks involved. Even the higher end independent providers. And I made it a point to regularly voice my appreciation for them and the gift that they were giving me. Still do.
But I would be lying if I were to say that I don't miss the way things were even just 15 years ago. More variety in terms of the selection of women available. Stronger competition in terms of pricing (yes this is a service and price always comes into play). And speaking of price: for many years it was customary to provide multi-hour discounts, and sometimes even rate breaks for regulars. I used to experience this regularly. The ability to maintain a level of anonymity was always key in these transactions. Cash transaction ALWAYS. We live in a country where it is still an illegal practice, so why would I ever want my actions to be digitally traced?
Everything changes. Nothing stays the same. We typically refer to this as progress, but technically the word "progress" means to move forward, which means to advance. And advancing would make one assume that the forward progress was a positive one. I am not necessarily adverse to change, although I generally do not favor it because I (like many people) am a creature of habit who understands that change usually involves complicating what was once a simple or simpler procedure. And if I enjoyed and benefited from that simpler process, then it is understandable that I would grimace at a more complicated and heavy handed procedure. Not to mention a lack of variety and prices that were once reserved for professional porn stars. When you see ads for regular Jane Hooker requiring $700-800 per hour with CBJ and no GFE or we can tack that on a la carte like I'm dining at Morton's Steakhouse and ordering the creamed spinach for an extra $10. Oh and BTW she's gonna need a copy of my license, two notarized references, a photo of me in front of today's NY Times with the date in clear view, and a full body cavity search at the front door. Obviously I'm being a wise ass now, but ya get the point. This game has pretty much passed me by. I've found one who I can now play with from time to time when she is in my area. I'd like more, but I consider myself lucky that I even have her.
Is what it is. It aint gonna change for lil ole me, nor would I ever expect it to. And time will march on. I look back on my pinnacle with great pride. I have some really great memories of some pretty incredible women. When I think about it, I can't even believe I had the opportunity to meet some of them. I'm lucky right now to even have the opportunity I've had with the one I've been seeing for nearly 6 months now. So all in all I'm doin alright. But yeah. The "OLD DAYS" for me were better. Always will be.
About the passage of time! For those of us who started in our 40’s and are now in our 60’s, the fact that we are still banging hot new 20-30 year olds who welcome our money (and age ravaged bodies) is a minor miracle which far outweighs any increase in research, qualification, and price! Over 30 years I have had 100% turnover of providers I’ve seen, and I must say that the best of the best today compares favorably with the best from 20 years ago! Of course younger mongers may feel differently.
It is better. Bareback sex is much safer.
I thought about this a lot before replying. I’ve been in the game for about 15 years now, and these days I work primarily as a cam girl. Honestly, the online presence required today is exhausting. Every morning, I’m posting pictures across four or five social media platforms, updating OnlyFans, answering messages, creating content, and doing so much behind-the-scenes work just to maintain the visibility needed to say I’m one of the top 5-20 in North America.
Paige, I think you hit on something perfectly: the amount of social media presence required now is absolutely insane. It feels like everyone is in the sex work industry now. There are women from every background and every profession participating in some way, so the market is incredibly flooded. At the same time, I definitely feel like I’m getting paid very little compared to the amount of work that actually goes into it.
There are some things that are better. I do appreciate that I can make the same amount from home as I could touring. That part is a real benefit. But there are also challenges that come with that: keeping European hours, dealing with conversion rates, constantly proving you are real, and navigating the way everyone is always suspicious of AI or fake profiles now. Your comment about someone asking “Are you real?” after three years really stood out to me, because now it feels like people are asking that after three months.
I don’t want to say the hobby is worse, because I don’t want to sound overly negative. But I do miss the meet and greets. I miss TER from 15 or 20 years ago. I miss when things felt a little more personal and less like a constant digital performance. As a cam girl, people also tend to assume I’m under the radar. If that’s the assumption I’m receiving in emails, then I think it reflects the current mindset. It seems like a lot of people just assume every cam girl is also an under-the-radar sex worker.
Of course, prices have gone up. Of course, the market is more crowded. But one thing I will say is that aging has changed my perspective. I turned 40 on my birthday, even though my cam profile still says 35, and I actually appreciate that the hobbyists have gotten older too. When I was 25, I remember thinking women escorting in their 40s were old and wondering how they could possibly compete. Now I understand that youth really is wasted on the young.
So ultimately, I don’t think the hobby has gotten better or worse. I think it’s just different. There are things I miss, and there are things I appreciate now that I didn’t have before. But the biggest change is that the work has become much more digital, much more demanding, and much more constant than it used to be.
And this isn't TO anyone. But if you're not meeting your goal price bracket at this time, it doesn't mean that you won't OR there's something wrong with the hobbyists. You just haven't found your niche yet. Once you find YOUR gold, dig in!!! For me, it is GFE. I BOND with my clients. Like QB says, they're "friends". I know this is a business but... It's a business with benefits! I'm Black. No booty at all really. Flat chested. And now I'm 40!!! Plus I've had 3 pregnancies! But when my cam-regulars come into my room, I greet them because I REMEMBER THEM! Statistically I shouldn't be doing so well. But I CAN dance. And I do ENJOY my work... I dunno. I found my niche 15 years ago. You'll find yours too.
Kisses,
Katie
Great post. I loved reading your perspective.
By the way. I looked at your pictures and for what it's worth I think you have a very nice "booty".