And while I am on a rant.....can someone PLEASE explain to me how ROBs happen in the first place?

I mean, we've dicussed how these guys fail to do their research....but on top of that...I keep thinking, I haven't yet met a woman I would sleep with who would get away with my money against my still-alive-and-conscious-will.

And while I personally am the sort of guy who would only insist (as strongly as I needed to) that said woman return my funds and be on her way, I have known guys who wouldn't leave it at that. If "Claudia" tried to rip some of my ex teammates off, she'd catch an ass whopping AND also perhaps find that she had just signed up for a "freebie". Don't ROBs worry about that stuff? Or, is that when they decide to just go back to the car, when they comes across someone who clearly isn't going to take kindly to being cheated (or maybe that is why "Claudia" does indeed have a few FS reviews....she thought better of it, huh?).

I am just curious....and am fascinated by the depths of what people will do and risk to make money versus just acquiring the skills necessary for an honest 9 to 5....

on the lady's side, i think about half the ROB's are cynical bitches, and half are slowly drowning in their work (claudia looks like an example of that).

they start out sexy & sensual & loving the fantasy, but start to drown once the demands of the work wear them down and they get addicted to the cash flow. they let their looks go, they provide less and less emotionally and physically as a defense. as a result the quality of their clients goes down, and they eventually come to an abusive encounter or two or just completely burn out.

on the men's side ... i think easily half the men in "the hobby" have self confidence or self assertion issues. so they are barely able to swim: don't feel relaxed in the session, won't walk away at first look, won't end the session when it starts to go wrong, won't command the minx, won't demand cash back. most ladies can read this dynamic in the first 60 seconds of the encounter.

there is also that old mafia saying -- never shoot somebody in your own car -- and i think ROB's usually operate in the man's hotel room. any conflict or scene (much less physical assault) would be a public matter for the man, and most men won't go there. that, and mace in the purse, keeps the ROB pretty much in control.

and i don't "blame" men for hooking up without reading reviews -- the review sites require paid membership, and it's just not on the newbie's landscape that such sites exist. all part of the covert workings of the petting zoo.

What kind of power must a woman have to be able to have sex, virtually whenever they want it, and get paid for it.

I agree with you. I never walk into a place I don't know how to walk out of. I don't present any cash until I've made a pretty thorough assessment of the situation. I typically pay up front, but I wait just long enough to find out how insistent the lady is about getting that money up front. If she's a little too insistent, I might just remember a meeting that I'm late for.

All of this is made moot, of course, when visiting a reputable, well-established lady from the TER database.

But these ROB's are aware of their power. A beautiful woman is difficult for a man (and some women) to resist in any circumstance. Add to that the anxieties inherent in these activities, and a ROB has a great deal of power over the weak-minded.

We gentlemen need to have our own rules, which include:

1) Walking away when the pics don't match. (It's a rule that can't be debated with oneself - "I'm too horny to walk away" or "well, she's not that bad")

2) If there’s any indication on the initial phone interview, that you won't hit it off with the lady, don't even make the appointment.

3) If there's anything that makes you feel uneasy in the first few moments, walk away.

4) If she refuses the expected service, (after you've given up the cash - you probably haven't followed your other rules very well) demand your money back, and walk away.

5) Never, under any circumstances, give a girl more money than originally understood as the fee, even if it means walking away with some of your money in her hand. You're not going to be able to pay up to achieve a good experience.

Ladies have their rules to protect themselves. We gentlemen must protect ourselves with our own rules.

riker


-- Modified on 8/16/2002 2:19:03 PM

riker says it all ... i'd only add, if you have to break an appointment (you schedule your atf in the meantime), or intend to no show (2), be a gentleman and let the lady know. even if she sours you and it's her fault you're not there, it's bad karma to leave her waiting. everything else is consenting adults.

Rules are a given, but our rules have to agree or nothing ever gets accomplished and all your left with is two very unhappy and horny as all people-LOL!

#2 bothers me a great deal.  I can understand not keeping the appointment, after all, you are free to shop around and that is understood in my world anyway, but do expect the courtesy of a call or something to let me know on the contrary.  That is what you mean....nicht wahr?

As for gifts, they are paid up front in my world.  That is to say that the gift must be laid out in a common place that both of us see.  That way both of us are comfortable and hell, wrestling for it afterward could be fun enough in itself-LOL!  But seriously, both parties need to be comfortable.  Common ground, common respect and all should be okay with the situation-right?

Lauren

Yes, one thing that is accomplished by setting a clear set of rules is that you are able to be courteous in all cases. You are not rejecting the lady, you are simply following your rules.

Courtesy is utmost. A cancellation call should be required by either party.

As I said, I always lay down the donation up front. But I don't do it within the first few seconds. I evaluate the situation first: her demeanor, the condition of the room and other tell tale signs that will indicate whether she is determined to have a good time or take the money and run.

I think I expressed my rules better in an earlier post on the SF board. See: "Avoiding the Rip-Off"

Obviously you are not doing business in the politically correct state of California.  If your teamates pulled that stunt out here they would probably be looking at 20 years in the slammer if caught.  I think there are plenty of things you can do to avoid a rip-off in the first place.  When you demand your money back and she refuses what do you do next?  Do you forcibly extract a refund from her?  On more than a few occassions when that has occurred the woman and her driver have went to the police and the guy found his house surrounded by the local SWAT team.

I will give you an example of how the system works here.  A client of mine was tossed into jail for spousal abuse based upon a complaint filed by his wife.  There was no evidence of this abuse because it did not happen.  He was put in jail with bail set at $50,000.  In jail he was surrounded by crack dealers whose bail was set at between $500 to $5000.  Two weeks later at his arraignment the DA declined to press charges because there was no evidence.  The cost to him was the weekend in jail, $5000 for the bail bond plus attorney's fees.

I understand your emotional reaction to this and think it would be poetic justice if Claudia ran into a few of your ex teamates.
However I am not interested in physically extracting a refund.  The cost of getting that refund might be too high.

It was about the risk the ROB takes upon herself. From her point of view, she should expect that ripping people off could result in danger to herself.

Of course, no person should take physical action against another.

Part of his post is about the risk the ROB takes upon herself.  The other part seems to be a statement that he would never allow himself to be ripped off.

"And while I am on a rant....can someone PLEASE explain to me how ROB's happen in the first place?"

"I mean, we discussed how these guys fail to do their research....but on top of that....I keep thinking, I haven't yet met a woman I would sleep with who would get away with my money against my still-alive-and-conscious-will."

"And while I personally am the sort of guy who would only insist(as strongly as I needed to)that said woman return my funds and be on her way, I have known guys who wouldn't leave it at that"

The first question is easy.  If you don't identify her as a ROB prior to giving her your money you have a problem.  You have to decide how far you are willing to go to obtain a refund.  Maybe you can intimidate her into giving you your money back without any physical contact but don't count on it.

From his last two statements it appears that he will do whatever necessary including physical force to obtain his refund.  

That you would beat and rape a girl who tried to take your money????

I mean really, do you have the stomach for that? Do you have any idea how horrible a scene like that could be or how it could haunt you later on down the road?

For all the faults and foibles with our justice system (lord knows on MANY points I disagree with it entirely) I still don't think it's up to us to mete out justice... or what we perceive to be justice. It's easy enough to not put the money on the table until the end of the session, and that way once you find out she's a rip off you can leave with no harm done.

I understand how angry you'd be at something like that. I get angry when I HEAR about things like that. But beat and rape a girl??? Really??? Or did I misunderstand completely?

Hugs*
Nicole

You got that part right...I'd never allow myself to be ripped off...so long as I WAS in a position to do something about it.

What would that entail? I am not sure. But my bet is that "she" isn't any more interested in a physical confrontation than I am. At least not with me.

"on the men's side ... I think easily half the men in "the hobby" have self confidence or self assertion issues. so they are barely able to swim: don't feel relaxed in the session, won't walk away at first look, won't end the session when it starts to go wrong, won't command the minx, won't demand cash back. most ladies can read this dynamic in the first 60 seconds of the encounter. "

I think "drollere" hit the nail on the head. ROBs COUNT on the guy just sitting there looking and acting stupid. The point I'm making is that I am not in that half.

I am NOT familiar with the laws of California, but I cannot imagine that they allow one person to rob another without you having the right to defend yourself and retake your possessions. Do you mean to tell me if some guy asked you for change for a $100 on the street, then decided to keep his money and yours, the laws of California don't permit you to use whatever means necessary (including force) to get your money back?

So what WOULD I do? Again, I am not sure, but I ASSURE YOU and say so without shame or embarrassment that I would NEVER be the victim of a female - only ROB scenario. Does that mean a physical fight? I sure hope not...I loathe at the idea of striking a woman. Does that mean she'd have to strike me first, to get past me? Maybe. And what happens after that is anyone's guess...

Now...I pose the question to you. Which half of drollere's equation do YOU fall in? What would YOU do?

Ok, so I'm wrong. MyLifeAsMe would beat up a chick to get his money back. Color me confounded. Now, in California a robber would have the right to press criminal charges and file a civil case if you were to assault them while you were being robbed. Would they win? Who knows. Many criminals have won, but regardless; there you are in court with the person who robbed you, getting your ass sued.

I am also not in the "barely able to swim" class, and can be intimidating when I need to be. However, I stop short of physical confrontation with a lady. The bitch, however, is counting on that. So she must be absolutely convinced that I will not stop short. Now her male driver, on the other hand; I'll take the risk of a lawsuit with him.

it's often hard to say in advance what you'd do in a dispute you haven't already been in. especially when the situation is illicit or covert, and the "contract" won't be stated in advance by either side for obvious reasons.

i also think it's really hard to "negotiate" a fee adjustment after the lady has already spent 40 minutes in your company and only now lets you know that you're not going to get everything you expected.

your threat isn't credible unless she believes you really mean it, and if she believes that, you've already pushed her panic button. it's likely that a genuine ROB has male or chemical backup in case of a feisty client, and has used that backup before. so she's running a practiced drill, and you're making it up as you go along. with your pants down.

i think riker has the best available solution: ease into the hour with a little chat. if you read the reviews of the real ROBs, most of them come through the door with bad attitude and go down hill from there. her clients are not getting blindsided, they're just not using their instincts.

as soon as i meet the minx, my first goal is keeping my eye on the emotional tension between us. is she warm or cool? is she soft or brittle? is she relaxed or rushed? is she near or far? i even listen to the sounds her feet make as she walks. once the emotional connection with the lady has developed to my satisfaction, i get around to the donation. i consider it a sign of trust and an emotional dfk if the lady suggests it can wait until after.

once the intimacies start, i view the money as relinquished. i might tell her i feel ripped off and want some of it back. i might even block the door and insist angrily that she turn it over. but at that point, she's probably deserving of maybe half for the "companionship" anyway, and i'm not going to get in a hog tussle over the $ or $.5 difference. she needs it more than me, whatever her motives.

-- Modified on 8/17/2002 9:22:39 AM

I use TER to find quality providers. If I decide to take a chance on an unknown, and it turns out she is a ROB, I will try to get my money back, BUT I am not going to do anything stupid that could cause me real trouble. I know ego demands that you not let this bitch get away with ripping you off, but seriously, is $300 really worth the hassles?????  If so, you need a cheaper hobby.

I said that I KNEW people (in the past) who possibly would...and that I don't understand why ROBs take the chance of meeting up against someone.

Insofar as what I would do, I am not certain, beyond saying I would never rape anyone for any reason, including to save my life...I just know for certain she would NOT leave with my money.

What are you people suggesting...that a guy should just say "oh well...foolish me?"

Look...I am not saying I'd beat it out of her, I'm saying she wouldn't leave with it. Now, on the other hand, if she did  to try to force her way past me...if she tries to harm ME...well YES DAMMIT...she has an ass beating coming. Given a choice between giving me back my money and walking away or taking on a guy who out weighs her by 120 - 140 lbs and can bench press his body weight for 15 reps...she is a damn fool and I would be glad to show her the error of her ways. What should I do instead, let her kick MY ass?

I guess those ROBs are smarter than I gave them credit for...I didn't know so many people were so unwilling to stand up for themselves...

-- Modified on 8/17/2002 12:58:02 PM

I can't believe how many of you would just say "oh well...my loss". Again...as I posted under Sexy Curves post, I guess I can see now how / why ROBs make a profitable living....

I suppose I should clarify that what you are describing is not what I had in mind...I have posted here before that I personally don't think a failure to receive exactly what you imagined is a ROB...I think that it is DAMN disappointing...but not a ROB.

To me, a ROB is someone who has no intentions of doing anything OTHER than taking your money....someone who grabs the envelope, and never does get naked. I guess I might also include a failure to provide FS if FS was promised, but I can't EVEN imagine that happening to me, because I'd never see a provider who wasn't previously reviewed. And I am still not sure about that.

No...what I am imagining is someone who says "opps...I have to go back to the car to get condoms" or some other BS. My point is...remains...and will be going forward...said person would NEVER leave my pressence WITH my money. It wouldn't happen. And you guys are free to feel differently...

-- Modified on 8/18/2002 4:52:11 AM

"Now her male driver, on the other hand; I'll take the risk of a lawsuit with him."

Why him and not her? Since apparently the potential lawsuit isn't the deterent (yet ANOTHER reason why I don't and will never life in California I suppose...people being sued for defending themselves against crime?) then are you suggesting that the "gentleman" in you would prevent you from being able to engage in a "physical confrontation" with a female?

Well...I think of myself as a gentleman...and that I know how to treat a lady. And as I stated below...I wouldn't strike first...I just wouldn't allow her to pass (with my money). But...as I also state below, the moment she decides she is no longer a lady, and is "woman" enough to TRY to take me on, then I am no longer a gentleman and instead am "man" enough to spank her ass for being so stupid. Liek I said below...it is her chioce...hand me my money and be on her way, no harm done, and free to find another sucker, or she can be foolish enough to think that I am of the same mindset as the rest of you guys. her decision, her mistake.

I stand by my statement...she puts her hands on me, she gets an ass beating.

My reasoning is a little more pragmatic than you assume. The reason I'll take the chance with him, is that he is less likely to press charges and far less likely to win a case against me. Also, it would create in me, considerably higher temperament to have a lady bring a goon along.

In any case, I much prefer avoiding any conflict with careful screening and scoping before any money is relinquished. As drollere points out, these ROB's are practiced in what they do. And as practiced as I may be in defending against the situation, violence is rarely a necessity.

like you who won't accept that bullshit. I'm just saying, when you have serious assets, a great life, a wonderful wife, and think you are on top of the world, do YOU really think that I would risk all that over a lousy $300? Since I probably spend an average of $1000 a week "entertaining" myself, an occassional ROB will be hated, but tolerated. Sure the ROB counts on this, but as the saying in my day goes: "What goes around, comes around." Good karma to you all. BTW, with TER, I haven't had a ROB in over 4 years.

To my way of thinking, occasionally encountering a ROB and losing money is just another tax that we have to pay to participate in this hobby.* It's well to remember that other taxes include the higher prices due to the hobby's illegality. The much lower prices seen in Mexico or Canada might prevail here in the States, if it were legalized. However, I'm not referring to the phony legalization seen in some Nevada counties.

*Of course, this happens infrequently if we patronize TER (shameless uncompensated advertisement)

She doesn't assult you but will not give you your money back, would you then "strike" first?  How would you not let her pass?  Would you physically block her?

How can any man who says he would put his hands on a women who weighs 120-140 lbs less than him, call himself a gentleman?   By who's standards are you a gentleman?

In this "hobby"  the providers meet all types of men.  The absolute worst, worst than the police are the men who think that they can abuse physically because they have not been satisfied to their standards.

I am happy to see that even though you ridicule the men who do not agree with you, they are GENTLEMEN  and will not agree with your disgusting method of making sure you do not get ripped off.

You're asking for trouble if you get into a violent altercation, especially in a public place like a hotel. If cops arrive on the scene for that kind of thing and it is a man and a woman, what do you think will happen? They'll say "Ok, she tried to steal your money so you beat her up. No problem!"  I don't think so honey. I mean I honestly feel like it would cause more trouble than it is worth, to my mind.

And yes, that IS why they get away with it... because of that, because of the complications to a gentleman's life in the event that a police report is filed, etc, etc.

Of course, the BEST solution is to do enough research that you are never in this situation. There are other alternatives though... I had a client once who just couldn't wait to see me, called an agency, and the girl turned out to be a rip off. (Honey, I only do massage. Oy vey!) He wasn't able to get his money back from her but he did report her to the hotel management... sometimes what goes around comes around, but it doesn't need to come around with a fist.

Hugs*
Nicole

I have seen a number of your posts that seem to have an undercurrent that seem to say what a tough guy you are.  Maybe you are.  But it has been my experience that people who talk the talk seldom walk the walk.  In other words the quiet ones tend to be the brave guys and the talkers are just talk.

Based upon the provider websites and comments made on this board, I believe almost all of the providers want the money put on the table before the session starts.  I believe that would be especially true with first time customers.

First of all a ROB is not a lady.  She is a hardcore thief. They do not necessarily act as normal people because they are criminals.  As I said before if you do not know that she is a ROB until after you give her your money you have a problem.

Your analogy to being robbed on the street by a guy who asked you to change $100 is not very good.  Because that whole scenario will play differently in court and before LE than kicking the crap out of a ROB in your room.

Since TER has been around I have not encountered any problems with ROBS.

Frankly I don't think I fit into drollere's wimp category but you can draw your own conclusions after I tell you what I did.

These experiences all happened before TER and the internet were big items.  My ROB experiences were all of the nature of I only dance anything else is illegal.  I have been fortunate that it has only happened a few times.  The first time it happened I was just pissed and left.  After the first time I decided that if it ever occurred again I would demand a refund and display an attitude that I would do whatever it took to get that refund. I also decided that I would not actually commit any physical violence unless I was attacked.  I was brought up in the same school as most men in regards to hitting a woman.  The second time I got my refund.  The third time the lady threatened to start screaming rape.  I said go ahead.  Sure enough she started screaming at the top of her lungs and after a minute of this I decided discretion was the better part of valor.  The fourth and last time I found myself looking down the wrong end of what appeared to be about a 38 caliber S&W. Naturally I left.

Now I know based upon your previous statements that you probably would have walked straight through that 38 to claim your refund.  I mean really a 38 does not make that big of a hole.

I also know several legitimate providers listed on TER that keep guns at their incall location for self-defense purposes.  It does paint a pretty picture doesn't it.  A poor defenseless woman with only a handgun to keep the wolves away.

-- Modified on 8/18/2002 3:28:34 AM

-- Modified on 8/18/2002 3:38:59 AM

For what it is worth, I never claimed to be a tough guy. For example, I *DIDN'T* say that I would take on her driver / BF. Without knowing much about him, I'd agree with others that $300 isn't worth the price of me finding out.

I would also not call this "talk". I don't know you, you don't know me. We haven't met. Our identities are utter and complete unknowns to each other. I am expressing my opinion / POV. This is NOT the same as standing up in a crowded bar and saying that I could whip any man in the place. THAT would be foolish. If we were to meet, you'd wouldn't come to learn this POV of mine unless we were very good friends. Because, as you infer, real "tough guys" don't talk...becasue real tough guys know that there is always someone tougher.

Which leads to my last point...you don't know me. If you did, you'd know that I *CAN* handle myself. Just as if you were a very close friend (as mentioned above) you'd probably already know this about me without my ever having to had said it. If some one were to ask you "Would MLAM let some just take his money and stand idly by, out of fear of a lawsuit?", as a very close friend of mine, you's reply "That doesn't sound like the MLAM I know."

I suspect we are different people, and that is fine. For you, and your life up until this point, being the "strong silent Peter Parker type" was a sign of strength. That is great, if it works for you.

For me, and MY life...well at least the majority of it during my youth, that was a useless sentiment. People needed to KNOW where you stood...if you were prepared to stand up for yourself and those things you believed in, be they family, friends, teammates, etc. Or else you'd get tested. That comic book bullshit didn't cut it. "Strong silent type" was something from TV.

So...yeah, maybe I am more inclined to share my opinion anonomously on a discussion board than you are. That isn't the same as walking up to you, poking you in the chest, and claiming I can kick your ass.

But, having heard your opinion...here's mine...the toughest guys *I* ever knew...from my youth...from the football field...and as an adult (I used to do business with a guy who was a former Navy SEAL) didn't go looking for trouble (well, ok, sometimes they did on the field...intimidation is part of the game) but you KNEW that they could give you change for your $20 if you were looking for a scrap. They WEREN'T the "strong silent type"...

But THANK YOU SO MUCH for sharing...

-- Modified on 8/18/2002 4:29:39 PM

"Now I know based upon your previous statements that you probably would have walked straight through that 38 to claim your refund.  I mean really a 38 does not make that big of a hole."

Of course not. $300...$3000...$3 million dollars isn't worth getting shot over.

"After the first time I decided that if it ever occurred again I would demand a refund and display an attitude that I would do whatever it took to get that refund. I also decided that I would not actually commit any physical violence unless I was attacked. "

This is exactly how I feel...perhaps it wasn't plain initially, though I thought it was. I said that I knew people who would beat her until they got their money back, but I wasn't the type that would. I also thought I implied, and certainly tried to make clear in later posts, that I wouldn't get physical unless she did...that all *I* was going to do was be determined that she wasn't going to leave with my money. And lastly, I did say that all this only applied if I was conscious and alive to implement it. Meaning....though again I didn't say this...if my life were actually threatened, then I sure as hell don't give rats ass about $300.

All my point was..and remains...is that A) A am fascinated that ROBs do what they do knowing that these risks exist (but then again, I said that before I knew how many of you were "the strong silent type"...lol) B) That in a world of prey and predetors, I ain't prey. Now, maybe I know that because I have had life experiences that have already defined that choice for me. To each their own....

Regarding poor defenseless ladies with handguns...well, that is an example of how each guy has different circumstances. I wouldn't do incall...I've only done it once, and it was because I was out of town, and ONLY after reading many, many complimentary reviews about both the lady and her home. To me...again, this is rooted in your perspective, derived from both culture, environment, and one's on personal make up driven by DNA, I am not going to engage in something risky as like seeing an escort on HER "turf". I want as many things as possible in my favor, and that includes being in my own home, in my own surroundings.

Now, I don't doubt that many ladies on outcalls carry guns. But I *DO* doubt if many of them, even ROBs, are going to be so stupid as to shoot a guy in his own apartment. Not that I am going to TEST this mine you...if I saw a gun, again...another $300 is just as far away as the ATM machine, so I won't miss the 1st $300.

But really...do you think a person is going to shoot me, in my apartment, for $300? She carrys that gun for self defense, not for robberies, even if she IS a ROB. My guess is she'd size up the situation. Her...admitted criminal, with a tracable track record of prostitution. Me...moderately upstanding member of my community. She...no signs of rape or trama. No drugs in my apartment to claim we fought over. I don't live in a neighborhood that experiences crime...I live in Downtown Manhattan. My shooting wouldn't just be another "one of those things". After shooting me, she'd have to get on an elevator...go past people who'd see her...be captured on video cameras thruout the building...and go past the same doorman who had to let her up in the first place. Just as she secured my true identity to feel safe in seeing me, my phone records and PC logs (emails, etc) identify her to anyone who REALLY wants to find her.

If she shot me, she'd go to jail. If I were dead, she'd go to jail for a very, very, very long time. Any girl smart enough to know most of you guys are going hand over your money without a fight knows how to asess risk. She isn't going to shoot me. Not that I am looking to find out...I am just saying...admitting...that NO...I am not concerned about it.

You are definitely NOT having sex enough and you are typing wayyyyyyyyyyy too much! Good lord!!!!

Can we talk about sex now???  
My piercing is all healed!

Hugs*
Nicole

For myself, and maybe I've just been lucky, but I would never ask for it or mention it.  And I've only ever had a problem with that methodology one time in a year, and that guy was a psycho anyways. (Well, not a psycho. Just slimy, disgusting, sleazy.)  One time I even had a gentleman leave who completely forgot about the $$$. He drove for 20 minutes after he left (was almost home) before he realized. But... sweetie guy!!!! He came back and brought it to me.  (I would've been happy to wait until I saw him again. Or have him paypal me. I'm easy!)

But, as always, I ONLY speak for myself and do not presume to speak for any other ladies!

Hugs*
Nicole

i think mlam is right: if you define something as a crime, then it's a crime. and he has certainly defined his ROB scenario clearly enough so that we can all agree it's a crime, and not a damsel in distress.

our difference may be something like this: if a drunk ran into my car and then tried to flee on foot, a crime would have been committed. would i pursue? probably. would i wrassle the guy to the ground? maybe. would i administer an "ass beating" if he tried to fight back? no. by then i've crossed the line of "taking the law in my own hands." or imagine you own a drug store, and some woman tries to steal a sixer of beer. do you ass beat her too as she struggles to run away?

stumpy already pointed out that the ground we stand on is governed by law, even if what passes between our faces is not. once the facetime stuff hits the ground, it's a whole new game.

stumpy appears to have *actually been* in this the ROB situation before, and he has ended up pretty much where i am: you can object, you can insist, you can get stinkin pissed off and let it show and try to block the door, but once you get down to physical violence you lose control of the potential consequences of the situation. for *everybody* involved. you *failed* the test.

meanwhile, like mlam, i screen my minxes carefully, and also like him i hope i never get in a ROB kind of situation. like him, i've never been ripped off before.

-- Modified on 8/18/2002 9:58:25 AM

seeing the minx in a hotel room absolutely reduces your control of the situation. seeing her at your home almost guarantees she's packing defense of some kind.

but before we go there ... show me a review of an ROB that happened in the client's home. to my recollection they were all in hotel rooms (often with out of town clients), or in an agency or massage parlor.

the beauty of incall is that it puts many of the personal security cards in the lady's hands (home turf, home gun), but still leaves you with the ultimate defense if she tries to rip you off -- you know where she lives! (this is also why i distinguish between "incall" and "her call" or visiting her at her hotel room. "her call" is riskier for both minx and player.)

my puzzlement remains: why are we so involved in scenarios that seem extremely unlikely to play out? most ROBs are hotel/motel vermin, hit traveling victims, run a drill, and have back up. to your puzzlement: the are able to operate not because their victims are wimps, but because they're criminals and have prior knowledge and control of the situation. if you got held up on a manhattan street for your wallet, i wouldn't think you were stupid, or a wimp, for giving it over.

VERY nice pic....and I am very tempted....but no sex today I am afraid. GF already beat you to it last night and this morning. I'd be of no use to you....lol.

Look me up tommorrow though.....   :^)

Well...you know..you could try READING before you lash out.....

"men who think that they can abuse physically because they have not been satisfied to their standards."

I SAID...and HAVE said multiple times on this board...that I don't consider DISAPPOINTMENT to be the same as a ROB.

Insofar as answering your questions, no, I wouldn't strike first, and YES I would block her path.

Insofar as you agreeing with my methods, or what you think of me...you have no idea how much I don't care. I am not one of the guys on this board who seek to impress or kiss the ass of the ladies on this board. Those who HAVE seen me here know that I conduct myself as a gentleman, and have even commented as such right here in this forum. The women in my life away from this hobby know that I am a gentleman as well. You don't know me, and if you don't care to, that is fine as well. In a world with hundreds of clients and escorts, we only need to be true to ourselves. For me, that means among other things never willingly letting anyone take advantasge of me. EVER. It works for me...I like my life and the things I have accomplished, many of which would not have come about without that sort of determination. I presume the choices you have made in life have left you happy as well.

So...since you have plenty of lip, but no answers...lets hear one...what do YOU suggest I do if I met a ROB...someone who takes my money and then tries to leave without performing any service. What is YOUR suggestion...hmmm? That I be a "gentleman" and just let her past?

Agreed on all counts.....the thread started off as me not understanding why some women take the risk in the first place, and soon became be defending myself and my point of view.

You are right...as I tried to illustrate...I don't recall ever reading about a ROB during an visit to the clients home. Probably for a combination of reasons, some of which I covered, soem of which you covered.

And you are right as well regarding the manhattan hold up as well...except I am presuming in such a situation that A) The robber is male, and B) the robber is armed. If A) & B) are true, then they get my wallet without a discussion, and without hesitation. However, an UNARMED assilant would get a fight. Does that make me wrong / foolish / whatever? Maybe...but again, that is who I am. I am just not going to give up what is mine simply because someone asked for it, on the presumption that I'd give it to them.

You do have a point re: incall. I had never thought of that...I guess I just don't like the idea of being on less than solid ground AND unfamiliar territory. When I invite an escort (or anyone for that matter) into my home, I don't know them, but I DO know my surroundings. I know where any potential weapons are, I know places to hide, I know how to escape. In her apartment, I don't know her, nor do I know anything about the place I am in. I don;t know if there is someone else in the apartment...I don't know if she has any hidden weapons. I don't know where to run, other than out the way I came in. I don't know anything other than I am TRUSTING her that I will leave this place in pretty much the same condition I came in. When she comes to see ME...she has to trust ME that this will be the case. I prefer it that way....

But that is just me...

clearing up my feelings towards a hobbyist-provider situation.  Thanks.  Take care and have fun