What are they?

What are theit motives?

How does one become one?

Are they a benefit or a bane to other hobbyists?

A WK posts in defense of every provider, no matter what the subject, right or wrong. They do it to say, "hey ladies, look at me". They do it to make themselves more attractive to the providers.
I find them to be more like one of the girls, then like one of the guys. Don't get me wrong, I know a few WK's, and they are nice guys, but I don't entrust them with certain information knowing they can't keep quiet.
I have no problem defending a provider, and have done so in the past, but I will not do it blindly.
This is like a right wing and left wing issue, so there is normally a balance. I will say, the boards would be a little more boring without them. I have nothing against them, personally, but I sure do like their peacock dance.
This reply is not meant to be a flame, I am just
voicing my own opinion.
Peace everyone.

When they stick up for an escort, some men dont like..

Hell, if one doesnt like them.. dont see them. ignore them, move on..

Instead there are some men, that find pure pleasure in not only downing providers, but their own peers as well..

First I take strong issue that WK are branded by men for protecting providers that some do not like. There is a perfect word for men who protect women who are WRONGLY harassed, accused, or endangered. That word is gentleman.

 WKs are branded because they behave as if one or more of the following assumptions are always true:

 1: No provider would ever treat a hobbyist badly unless he deserved it.

 2: In a case of he said she said, she is always not only right, but has presented her side with the most generous possible evaluation of the hobbyist's position.

 3: No provider would ever be influenced by monetary concerns in a dispute, she is obviously a better woman than that.

 4: If confronted with near overwhelming evidence that the provider might be wrong, insulting the man's honor, truthfulness, base intentions and motivations is appropriate and necessary.

 5: If there is no way to alibi the providers behavior, post as conspicuously as possible the fact that they KNOW that she is far to wonderful to have ever even considered the behavior under discussion. In this circumstance expressing a desire to book time the provider in the immediate future is considered good form if not mandatory.

There are more of course. Perhaps others will add to this list.

----------

 My point is simple. We are all human beings. Mo matter our plumbing, in any given situation we may be wrong. The notion that ANY of us are above criticism is absurd (myself included). It the WKs presumption that the lady is ALWAYS right that makes them equally absurd.

-J


-- Modified on 12/16/2007 11:40:37 AM

Justanoldman

everyone knows it was started by men..
Im sorry it bothers you- but it is so -

WhiteKnights are a good thing - Its all good- there wasnt any disrespect intended due to your plumbing LMAO

The above post by ego-check states the same -

So..

Carry on mate and have a great rest of the weekend !



-- Modified on 12/16/2007 12:01:10 PM

This topic is something that is frequently discussed on Ter.

I think Dragonfly2006 defined it best:

A "white knight" is seen as someone who will always defend a provider right or wrong.

But how many times do you ever see a provider defend a hobbyist.

I have defended providers too in the past but I never do it blindly.

They are sometimes a friend or an ATF of the provider.  

I once told a white knight,"You have no objectivity."

He told me, "You are right."  

Although "white knights" occasionally go overboard, at times they provide stability to the boards.

-- Modified on 12/16/2007 3:36:49 PM

sort of like "politically correct" or "liberal" or "conservative".

It tends to mean whatever the user wants it to mean instead of arguing the merits of any particular issue.

I for one would gladly see it wither away.

of either a provider or Hobbyist gets branded as White Night-ish. And many times the He-men doing the branding hide behind aliases. They are so brave and virtuous.

and was never labeled a WK. A WK exhibits this behavior over and over, and a pattern is easily seen by anyone who follows the boards on a regular basis.

who had seen a particular provider and they both had a good time, and she found him to be courteous, kind and respectful... well , she has the opportunity to "brand" him as a white knight on a list maintained by TER....  Guess I was way off....

As to guys sucking up to providers... yup, that also occurs.  But I thought that was just a suck up.

You've certainly put it on a hair trigger; why don't you just say it's an insult that men give to a man who will defend a provider against other men?

You say that one "assumption" is always true for a White Knight. Unless somebody says it right out, you can't know from a few posts that any of them are always true, or even true most the time. It seems to me you have to make a rush to judgment about that, and a similar but negative one that you think the "white knights" make about providers.    

I emailed a provider who never answered me.  When she posted an ad on the discussion board, I asked her why she didn’t answer her email.  Bozo #1 jumps in to say that he has had only good experiences with this particular provider and attacks me for asking the question.  I never attacked her credibility in anyway except for a factual question as to why she didn’t answer my email.  I pointed out to Bozo #1 that he was a fool and then Bozo #2 chimes in with a personal attack on me as well.  What do these morons think TER is all about?  TER was created for hobbyists to exchange meaningful information about providers. Somehow these suck ass wimps got it turned around.  They must feel they are scoring points with the provider who is most likely laughing at them.

White Knights are guys who jump to the defense of a provider, whether the provider is right or if anyone with half a mind knows the provider is wrong.  

Motives?  Probably thinking they are getting on a providers good side.  

Wanna become one?  Find a provider and everytime she posts, regardless of content, agree with her.  And if she's attacked, defend her whether you agree with her or not.  

Personally, I believe they serve no purpose.  If you want to come to a ladies defense fine.  But don't expect to be taken seriously if you are always defending her.

A good example in my mind is a provider in NYC who posted a while ago an ad for a line of books and music.  One person posted it constituted spam, which it really was since it had nothing to do with hobbying and TER isn't a retail outlet.  A number of posters came to her defense.  But when a hobbyist made a similar post a week or two later, the same ones bitched at him that his ad had no business on TER.

That is a good example.  And it's really pathetic to see the WK in action.

Definately well stated. When defense is warranted due to a smear & if I have personal knowledge of a slighted provider, I will always don my armor  

A guy who lends friendly help to a provider, especially in a  dispute against guys, and with no regard for any monetary or sexual favor.

Motives: I'm motivated by beliefs about fairness and ethics between the sexes based on biology, or at least informed by biology. I think the sexes are quite different and that they react very differently to the same words and behaviors.  

Therefore, I'll help providers in threads when I think they're treated crudely or unfairly, and because I've noticed that men will tend to support a man on most issues against a provider, often for no rational reason except they identify far too closely with other guys. True, providers may support each other against guys as well, but they aren't nearly as aggressive and direct about it. Also, some guys are also driven by dominance and power over women. This is a testosterone-based fact, and it effects arguments and disputes. Some guys consider providers to be easy targets. Guys will get behind somebody like this only because he has a dick.

Is my behavior a benefit to hobbyists? I hope it  promotes fairness and mutual respect between clients and providers. It might be a business relationship, but for most guys the sex available for the buck gets worse in direct proportion to the disrespect providers have for clients. Even if he's paying for sex, a guy gets the best sex from a woman who totally wants to give that to him.  

Furthermore, we can't expect the public to begin to respect providers if even their clients don't show them respect. Nor can the public have any respect for guys who pay to have sex with women they don't respect. So, White Kightism is good for broader acceptance in general.

Finally, consensual sex is a very friendly act. Emotionally I'm just motivated to be friendly toward providers and to want to help them. I find no harm to just wanting to be friends and then paying her when I need something more. I try to keep it reasonable, but you might call this the "seduction factor."

It's not true in the least that I always support all providers, though. I could name times this wasn't true. (I used the statement: "Where's my cellphone!" a few times.) It's also not true that I do it to gain sexual or monetary favor. I've never taken a freebee or personal discount in my life.

Also: I don't shill for them.

-- Modified on 12/16/2007 3:51:48 PM

Is when they start discretly placing ads for the providers or schilling the provider.

Thats when I have to say time out, stop this.  

That is creating an uncompetitive advangtage against the providers who don't have the same network of white knights or hobbyists they have influence over.

I haven't heard the word "gentlemen" used among guys in the hobby, except when a guy refers to himself.

The fact that "gentlemen" isn't used as a compliment among guys but "white knight" is used as an insult, says something.

The one thing I noticed about the NY Board is that when the guys are right, the insults far outweigh the crime. The guys start a contest to try to come up with the most comical one, often with a tin ear to how bad it sounds to women-- in general.

I could become a white knight there for saying, "Hey, just cool it."  

-- Modified on 12/16/2007 3:54:44 PM

It is a label used to dismiss another person's opinion.

It is intellectually less demanding to call someone a White Knight without arguing the merits of the issue at hand than to present your case.

They're the flipside of the coin.  For them, providers can never be right.  Even when they are right, hobbyists are always MORE right.  Aren't they suck-ups too?

"I Hate" writes "A number of posters came to her defense But when a hobbyist made a similar post a week or two later, the same ones bitched at him that his ad had no business on TER" I didn't remember it that way so I just read both threads and this statement is a complete fabrication. Not one (unless they are cowards like "I Hate" and always hide behind aliases) person who defended the Provider also attacked the Hobbyist. Moreover, the Hobbyist got many more defenders than attackers. The fact is that both provider & hobbyist alike posted stuff unsuited to the board but from the reaction of the attackers you'd think they were cutting off the heads of small children. Some of what was written was really to just stop the name-calling and chill.

Now for some name calling: the problem with people like you labeling others "white knights" is that you assume a motive when you're a lying ignorant dumb-ass who has no evidence whatever that the defender is doing anything other simply stating what he believes. As Freud would say "Sometimes a cigar is just a cigar".

"TER was created for hobbyists to exchange meaningful information about providers. Somehow these suck ass wimps got it turned around."

Couldn't have said it better myself. That statement isn't exclusive to WK's either, it sums up the overall state of the hobby these days.

Even to the point where they don't match facts. It's the reason why they disdain guys standing up for women.

I can't find "white knight" insulting, even knowing that it's meant to be ironic.

It's good Mrt actually brought the label up for examination. It has been a good thread.