Ok provider and client decide to do an overnight. They meet at designated restaurant. After dinner they head for the club. At the club provider drinks a number of drinks. When they are leaving the club provider excuses herself to the restroom where the alcohol hits her. she is taken to the hospital via ambulance. Client is not allowed in hospital room because he is not related. Provider wakes up to a $3,500 hospital bill. Client has not had a chance to speak to or see provider since she was carried away on stretcher. what would you do if you were the client? What would you do if you were the provider?
Wow. I am not an attorney so my opinion is based on what would an honorable hobbyist do? I base my response on the question "Did I do anything to cause the alcohol poisoning and should I have taken steps to safeguard my date but did not?" If the answer to either of those questions is "Yes" then I think you do have an obligation if not legal then at least ethical. If you contract with a provider would you do anything less for her than you would have for a "non-professional" date? I would hope that you were not one of those hoping to get her drunk and take advantage of the provider.
Yes, she has an obligation to take care of herself. Short answer is I would cover half of the bill.
That there is more to the story? Simply having "a number of drinks" isn't normally cause to be carted off on a stretcher. The possibility exists that the alcohol didn't mix well with some sort of prescription (or non-prescription) drugs. I would certainly want to make sure that the lady was alright, and possibly call her in a day or two, but as for the $3500 hospital bill, I would feel no monetary responsibilty for that. (If that's why you mentioned it)
I am asking what you would givin the scenario described I did not ask about feeling a financial responsibility for hospital bill or speculating as to whether or not the provider was taking prescription drugs. I was asking about whether client should feel responsible for the 4-5 hours spent with provider prior to her departing via ambulance. Or because overnight was what was expected and was not fulfilled should provider not expect to be compensated for her time.
if the scenario is precisely as you describe the provider is due compensation for the 4-5 hours. the fact that she was incapable of fulfilling the overnight does not negate the 4-5 hours. you owe her for time spent.
now whether that 4-5 hours of compensation is more or less than the agreed overnight rate.... complications ensue.
the only basis for NOT compensating for her time spent prior to hospitalization would have to be extremely exotic and unlikely circumstances not mentioned in your account. i won't exercise my imagination to enumerate possibilities.....
4-5 hours compensation might be less than or greater than the overnight....
you might consider the lesser amount (whether the 4-5 hours or full overnight) as your minimum obligation and the higher as a nice gesture.
I would pay for the whole date even though it was cut short. It likely was not her fault things ended the way they did. Life happens, and she will need the money. She did her best to fulfill her obligations of the night with you. At the very minimum you should pay her for the time spent, say the 3rd to 1/2 of the agreed amount as she spent that much time with you. You should also call to check on her to make sure everything turned out OK. It is the lest you can do. I am fairly certain you had a better time than she did and your evening was likely ruined.
You should pay for the time that she actually spent with you, or pay for the whole date. That's your call, but she is due at least for her hourly rate until things went south.
loss of funds for the overnight and no dessert. But I think Hungry is right, there is much more to this story. Whether it be drugs, a medical condition or bad food. Obviously we all hope the lady is OK and by no means is the hospital bill your responsibility. Hopefully the lady is fine and you both can continue your evening in the near future.
granted you may not have had all you wanted in this date but 4 hours plus her time to get ready is worth something. Just how much is up to you but I am shocked you feel you owe her nothing. Dinner and a club is part of your plans and after all isn't that what you pay for in an overnight is time and companionship ? Otherwise a few hours of erotic fun is more than most can handle without being taken away in a stretcher.
I do hope you follow through and check up on how this lady is doing. Open the conversation about her time and what would she feel comfortable doing about her donation. To your surprise she may want to see you for another night of wild fun minus drinking and the club instead of making good for some of the time you spent together.
I think there's more to this story as well. Could someone have slipped something in her drink ?
Kisses Haley
Definitely more to this than meets the eye, which may be part of the OPs issue.
Hospital bill and illness are not your issue unless you specifically did something to cause it.
Time spent together is on your tab. I would work with her, after she is better about that rate (pre-hospital) and pay THAT. I would say that (see next point) this time might be heavily discounted if you'll be repeating. If not, do your best no to get into a pissing contest over the rates.
I would suggest (if parties are willing) a follow-up overnight date for the same time/price). However, I would negotiate a reduced rate for the dinner time since you never got to desert. If she is out of town that could be tougher.
Some of this could vary based on what happened to make her sick, but we have little information, so...
It's been a mangina rampage up til now!!
Can't wait til the real heavy hitters weigh in on this.
Pay her for a couple hours, and only if you want to.
If she can't handle her shit as a professional it's got nothing to do with you.
Were this to be a real scenario, there's lot's of info missing.
Of course the mangina will want to pay her for the entire evening, pick up the hospital bill AND leave her a big tip. lol
I have had overnights where the provider pulled an MP67 on me and I ended up listening to her snore all night and still paid for the overnight. I have also had dates where the provider has overindulged and not compensated her a single red cent.
There is a lot more to this story, and somehow I don't think this is just idle speculation on the part of the OP.
One thing is for certain, unless there was no doubt that my actions caused her "illness", that $3,500 bill in on her. No one in the world could guilt me into picking up that tab.
and there's no sense ripping open an old wound.
There is probably more to this story than we know about, so I won't comment on it specifically, but I was in a somewhat similar situation where I arranged an overnight with a long time favorite provider.
At dinner she drank more than what I'd like to see and when we got back to her place, she continued on drinking until she passed out and the prospect of having any fun time was well on nigh.
In addition I had paid for the session in advance and I considered this a non-session at this point (I left.), so I called the next day to ask about a makeup session and she was of a mind that she didn't owe me one.
From there our relationship never really recovered which was too bad.
I like to have a drink or two now and then, but I think that alcohol and sex (and hobbying in particular) are for the most part a bad mix.
Time is time, discuss it with the provider to come up with a fair figure both of you can live with. What happened could have been helped by restricting her drinking, drunk sloppy sex is never a good thing so you the drink buyer ARE partly responsible.
... I have a bit of a different spin on the situation.
The lady was contracted for 'an overnight' that included dinner, drinks at a club, and the logical conclusion for the remainder of the night. This was a package deal and the lady was unable to complete it. Personally, I don't hire a lady to just have dinner and go have a few drinks with me. Her illness spoiled the whole thing. One school of thought certainly would be that you owe her nothing. Is that a good idea? Not really if you ever want to see her again.
In short, I personally don't think you owe her anything. But you need to decide what is right for you based on the value of possible future dates with her vs. your wallet.
An analogy keeps coming to mind. Situation One: You jump in a taxi for a trip to the airport. Half way there, the taxi breaks down. The driver calls another taxi for you. You pay the first driver what is on the meter and complete your trip and settle with the second driver.
Situation Two: You hire a limo to take you to the airport. Half way there the limo breaks down and you have to get out and catch a cab. I don't think you owe the limo company anything.
So is this lady a limo or a taxi? I come to TER class ladies for limosine service!
I'm sure I'm about to get flamed, but that IS the way I see it.
MVR
to get out of a "bad date" i wouldn't want to pay either.
Sorry, that's the first thing that came to mind when I read it. Am I cynical or what?
I could just picture it - you having the time of your life, and her looking at you all night, stomach turning, like 'OMG, I need another drink.'
Then you're on your way out the door and the booze has all but erased the pretense of her expected level of professionalism, it's getting too real for her, client this ass - just a replusive troll that's making her skin crawl, now she has to go give you your money's worth and...nuh uh, no fuckin way...
"I have to go the bathroom."
*Panic, panic* how do I get rid of this creep...
I know, far fetched, right? It's not a length that any rational person would go to, to escape an inevitably gut wrenching experience. But then again, if she was that drunk... and it's not even close to the most outlandish thing I've ever heard of someone doing to escape a bad date.
But it doesn't matter, this is just a BS story anyway. Afterall, the "client has not had a chance to speak to or see provider since she was carried away on stretcher." - yet the client somehow knows she awoke to a $3,500 hospital bill?
That's just bad fiction writing. You can't jump from 1st person perspective to 3rd person omniscient. Trust me on that one.
... to simply have a pre-planned incoming phone call which is either 'nothing' or 'oh my gawd they just took my mother/father/son/daughter to the ER I have to go now!'
I have seen civie women who had a friend call them one hour into a first date for EXACTLY that reason: to give them a way OUT NOW.
MVR
Yeah, but then taking his money is out of the question. She'd effectively be cancelling the date of her own volition. Hell, he might want to drive her there, or share a cab or something. Besides, she was drunk, common sense takes a backseat. For all we know she's batshit crazy to begin with - who drinks themselves into a fucking hospital in one night?
But like I said, it was just my mind playing devils advocate, as always. I'm sure she really did drink herself into a coma...cause that always happens. Yep.
But it doesn't matter, this is just a BS story anyway. Afterall, the "client has not had a chance to speak to or see provider since she was carried away on stretcher." - yet the client somehow knows she awoke to a $3,500 hospital bill?
That's just bad fiction writing. You can't jump from 1st person perspective to 3rd person omniscient. Trust me on that one.
Many of the other replies ran with the assumption it was a client reflecting on an experiece with a provider and I ran with that as well before rereading the OP. Indeed, you did not state which you were. My bad.
Still, the whole drinking till waking up in a hospital sounds far fetched without other circumstances involved.
But what do I know, I'm Irish, we puke and rally.
She's in the hospital and you're trying to stiff her on for the 4-5 hours you spent with her. Cold.
it could be a post from the provider.
Would you tip the waitress if she never brought your food?
Any decent restaurant will offer a free meal in the future if their food is spoiled and the stove is broken.
She did not deliver her end of the contract
You owe her nothing.
At the least, she should make it up to you with a substantial discount next time.
The hotel bill is a definite no, no; and the initial few hours is a grey area. Yes, you are paying for the provider's time, but the client is also paying for a package which is now not available through no fault of his own. A cynical argument would be that the client should be compensated for having his evening ruined having made an arrangement for a certain experience. In fact, I think this is what would happen in most service businesses if an arrangement was made and then withdrawn through no fault of the client.
More pragmatically... reschedule the same thing at the same time. The provider shouldn't lose the Give her the chance to earn the money, and if - as is suggested by some - she simply wanted a way out, then it doesn't happen.
One thing: it doesn't say in the scenario whether it was pre-paid or not, which I assume it would be. It also says "what would you do if you were the provider" (which most of us are missing). My answer would be to reschedule with the client at no additional cost to the one agreed the first night.
I would learn my limits on drinking. Some ladies seriously do not realize the danger they put themselves in by getting wasted. As far as what you should do...I would suggest emailing her and explaining your side...then asking for your money back or ask for another date (an alcohol-less one). It is not your fault she cannot hold her liquor.
I understand that having fun is at the top of the list on an overnight, but a true professional would have the state of mind to keep from getting super trashed. I can say this as I have had to learn my lesson the hard way as well.
First, let's be honest -- the "time and companionship" and "this is not for sex" disclaimer is simply to avoid LE liability; and frankly I doubt it is good even for that.
How much would you pay a provider for her "time and companionship" per hour if you KNEW that there would never be ANY sex with her?
The simple fact is that it is the SEX thrown into the mix that is the crucial motivating element in most cases that makes the man willing to pay *anything at all*. That's why they call themselves "professional SEX workers" and not "social workers."
Now, in the interests of full disclosure, I have offered to pay women a pretty substantial (to me) amount of money for dates that did not include sex; but I am a strange guy and atypical. You can't make hobby judgments based on my particular behavior or choices. The simple fact is that if all sexual contact were taken off the table, most hobby transactions would not happen at any price because most (though not all) hobbyists would not view "time and companionship" as having sufficient value to even justify their time, much less the money.
So my first answer is you actually owe her nothing because she didn't deliver on a crucial part of the contract.
But my second answer contradicts that.
While it is hard to put a price on a no-sex date with a provider of sexual services; it is not impossible.
I am aware of one provider who assesses a fee for dates that do not include sex. Her usual minimum fee for an appointment that includes sex is $1000; but her fee for up to 4 hours of public no-sex time is $250. (By the way, I like this idea and wish more women offered it. )
Using the mechanism of deriving value by comparison to comparable services; I would say that you owe her $250.
But my third answer contradicts that.
What kind of idiocy is it to allow a woman you are with to drink "a number of drinks?" A drunk woman cannot give informed consent; so having sex with her after "a number of drinks" would be rape. You should count yourself lucky that she got hauled away on a stretcher so you couldn't complete the deed; and let her keep the funds as fair compensation.
But my fourth answer contradicts that.
One consequence of a woman being anonymous to a man is that, in exchange for the benefits she derives in terms of absolute control of communication, she assumes FULL and COMPLETE personal responsibility for her actions.
It is not at all reasonable to expect a man to second-guess an unknown woman who is charging very professional rates in terms of her personal choices regarding drinking or anything else that does not immediately pertain to his safety. It is not AT ALL your fault that a PROFESSIONAL SEX WORKER ON THE CLOCK decided to drink herself into a damned stupor.
Providers cannot have their cake and eat it too. They can't expect to be miss "I am in control" and have you know zilch about them on one hand; and then on the other expect YOU to take responsibility for their wellbeing beyond your direct actions or how you would deal with any other unknown person.
The simple fact is that by acting in an incredibly unprofessional fashion she showed herself to be unworthy of her incredibly professional rate. You owe her nothing.
Finally -- there is the compassionate route. This is a person whose company you clearly enjoyed enough to book an extended date costing a considerable amount of money. No doubt you are very concerned about her wellbeing and would enjoy seeing her at a later time.
That being the case, you should give her the opportunity for a make-up appointment. But fair is fair -- she should credit you with the pro-rated portion of the time that was unavailable to you due to her incapacity.
As you can see, no easy answers. Sorry.