I have a beautiful wife, who absolutely loves sex. I thinks he thinks about it more then the average guy. Yes, it is possible. She is great. Will do anything in bed, ask to try new things, loves for me to cum on her and then she wipes it all over her body! Will wear anything, has a couple of wigs, toys, loves to be kinky.
Why do I see providers? It would crush her. I know I have everything at home. Why do I risk my family life for a couple of hours of fun?

simple...someone has convinced you that you don't deserve to be happy ...a parent a jilted ex

Variety is the spice of life, lol.

My wife is very fat which limits the sex positions she can do. She was a model when I meet her. The pussy is pretty though compared to a lot of women I have been with on the side.

I wish I had such problems, I hobby because my wife has no interest in any physical contact with me or any oher man or woman for tha matter.
Several chronic medical conditions make sex uncomfortable and even painful. She has no libido. Add to that warped religous beliefs have convinced her that she is no longer ment to have a physical relationship any more. It is God's will for her to leave behind the ways of the flesh.  

I would be looking for a lawyer if it were not for my family situatiin (too complicated to go into). Give me a few more years and I will not be hangng around, but for now I have to pay to play.  I would do aything to have things back the way they were 10 years ago.

Count your blessings man. You never know what the future will bring. I would have never thought things woud have turned out this way. She was and still is a very hot MILF as when we met. Looks 15 to 20 years younger than her mid 50's age. She was also much more sexually active than I ever was at a younger age and we did it every day all night long for the first 5 years.

that is what my therapist said and i have to pay her

Re: I don't have the answer, but what is your home phone #? (eom)

yeah, not funny.

Sure she has gained some weight after two kids, but she is not fat. i think she is a size 4 or 6. keeps herself nice, takes good care of herself.

Just kidding.

Men are biologically programmed to want a variety of partners no matter how gorgeous, hot, and kinky their SO is.

The question you should be asking isn't why you want to see providers but why you can't keep from seeing them if you do indeed wish to stop.

Try posting this on The Erotic Highway. I'm betting that LG will recommend that you look into therapy but she may have some insight, as well.

sorry that medical issues caused your marriage to die out. As for the religious part, my wife told me that God gave her a body to F***. She also has people that thinks she is 10 years younger then she is.
I have started to count my blessings and feeling really guilty about what I am doing

You can't keep your dick in your pants.

You want your cake, ice cream, and the damn brownie dessert after all that. Served on a silver platter with milk I might add.

to be a bad pap smear!

Actually I see this as nothing more than another troll post by some sad ass douche nozzle looking for attention, whose wife is actually his right hand, and the toys are for his own ass!
Have a great night!

first, i didn't mean to post here. i met for this to go on the erotic highway.

second, who the hell are you to judge how anyone thinks or what they post.

Just wait till some other guy gets ahold of your wife. SHAZAMMM!!!

and you think with your dick instead of your brain.

I hobby because I married in name only don't even sleep in the same bed. I can assure you, if I had your problem, I would never venture out and hobby. Instead, I would be wining and dining her and taking her on vacations with the money I spent on the hobby.


Get some will power, quit and don't screw up and if you do, you will regret it rest of life. You think you feel guilty now, it will be horrendous once you screw it up.

And that's straight talk my friend.

I think you fall into a depression category. Either that or you are a moron. You have what most men would mame for. Sorry; you asked. Be glad my missus didn't answer this question. She would have ripped you a new one.

Find a way to re-invent your appreciation of your wife.

Every man, no matter how wonderful what he has, wants more.

The problem here is that an evolved psychology of this sort that may have been adaptive when it was developed can be seriously maladaptive when applied in the modern context.

The key lies in disciplining one's behavior.

You do it because you CAN and because you do not fear being caught. (Or because your drive is greater than your fear of adverse consequences.)

Whether you SHOULD do it or not is a matter only you can decide in terms of honest cost/benefit analysis rather than hedonistic whim worship.

As for me, if my wife could do the sex thing, I wouldn't see providers for same. But I tend toward the monogamous end of male sexual proclivities anyway so I realize my own inclinations don't reflect general inclinations.

If she is that hot and that sexual...what's her number? If you are playing around, at least give her the same opportunity and I'm sure she'd welcome the change too.

Re: I don't have the answer, but what is your home phone #? (eom)

You are playing around...why not her...shit I offered a few posts down. At least give the guys a chance too. What, you can but she can't? Guys like you are pathetic..she probably wants change in dick as much as you want a change in pussy. Don't be a selfish rectal orifice.

Re: I don't have the answer, but what is your home phone #? (eom)

I'd fuck her too. He's one lucky if true and he shouldn't be hobbying with that set up. I am with you in what's good for the goose, goes  for the gander. Trouble is, he came here looking for advice and he's not getting the lines he wants to hear. Stay home and fuck your wife as often as she wants it. If you don't someone else will.

sums it up Rae.

OSP,
thank you. i know i will regret all of this if she finds out. i have doing it for over two years.
i do have PTSD (post trauma stress disorder, so it is interesting that you brought up the depression.
i love the hobby but i have been thinking about how good things are at home and what this would do to my family.

The thing is she would like to be with a female. She has explored a little with women. She also wants to have a threesome.
We were going out of town a few weeks ago and I looked into have a provider join us, but I thought it might lead to questions later so I decided not to.

I don't know what f---ing book your wife is reading but the one i'm aware of declares that each and every married,and capable,person is OBLIGATED to comply with the spouses sexual wishes. Tell that woman to stop rationalizing her non-compliance.

MG people who mangle 'principle and precept' just piss me the hell off.

I think narcissistic personality disorder may be a better match.

http://www.halcyon.com/jmashmun/npd/dsm-iv.html

Besides her medical conditions etc. she just might not be attracted to you anymore and is using every excuse in the book to get out of it.

I've been cheated on too and i'm a lot like her stone cold freak and I think i'm pretty awesome but people will do what they do because well I think eh "what's wrong" is you like variety. Variety, variety, variety.

I don't find narcissism to be any thing other than a choice. Not a disorder. You're probably correct that depression might not be operative here. It is a loss of all things once interesting. This clown selects what is uninteresting. Can we just concede him a MORON???

Of course you'd have to be very careful how you'd word it....test the waters...IF you think it would be "safe" to do so.


Good luck. OR...


Maybe you should work on your marriage, do other things besides just sex. Get to know her on another intimate level. We women are very deep and love to be more than just bed mates!


There are SO many other great things to do and have sex too!  

Once again, Ms. Monroe shows that her brain and intellect is every bit as good as her looks and libido.

The OP just can't keep it in his pants. I do agree that guys are programmed for variety. But when you choose to MARRY, you're promising to be faithful. Since your wife is still attractive and willing, be a real MAN and keep your marriage vows. If you don't want to, get a divorce. It IS as simple as that. Getting your d-ck wet in some new p-ssy means more to you than your family. You've chosen. Now either get a divorce or do an about-face and be a faithful husband.

You asked for advice; that's mine.

but tell her sex will keep her young longer. Her body will be supple, her eyes and skin fresh and bright.

It's unreal, her SO is not interested in sex. This lady looks great, brunette, petite, about 120#. I felt bad initially, but I got over it real fast. She just can't get enough sex. We used to meet at a hotel close to her house, but she now would rather we meet at her in the early AM, while her SO is at work. Folks, it's very important you do all you can to keep your SO happy in her life, bedroom etc.

Moron issues aside, narcissism is an illness. Thinking highly of one's self is not. Narcissism can be devastating to the subject and anyone near him.

PTSD can have myriad symptoms, and each case is different in its manifestation.

Among these is an inability to attach and empathize. PTSD can lead a person to prefer behaviors destructive to his own happiness; and not understand that preference.

That having been said, you DO have the power to control your choices.

I remember having an argument with a lady once who blamed the fact she was treating me poorly on PMS.

I told her she was full of shit, because even if PMS is real, she still had control of her behavior. She insisted that she did not.

So I asked if she treated her boss and coworkers as nastily as she was treating me when she had PMS. She admitted that she did not.

The difference, you see, is that she foresaw adverse consequences to mistreating her boss and coworkers, but not me. Once she understood that treating me poorly would also have adverse consequences, her behavior changed positively -- PMS or not.

Believe me, I can appreciate PTSD. And I can appreciate how its effects can be so subtle as to be misunderstood as being natural behavior.

But you still have the power of choice.

If someone were standing in front of you with a weapon and credibly threatening to shoot you if you were to call a provider; you would find plenty of self control in a hurry.

IMO, your behavior is maladaptive and contrary to your best interests. It should be changed and therapy should be sought as needed.

Yeah but I'd want her all to myself...

Penis Thinking-Stupid Decisions!  But hey, use it!  It's the latest fad in mental illness! It's taken over depression, anxiety, you name it!
Everyones got it.  Hell, I got it just from reading this thread!

even in the most primal and biological sense, females are designed for serial monogamy at best.

on a cultural note, i've always wondered why it is so easy for most men to understand that it is not man's nature to be monogamous, but impossible for them to understand that the same is the case for women, just for slightly different reasons.

saluting, you must ask some hard questions of yourself. the first one being, why exactly do you see providers? if it's nothing more than a need for variety in sex partners, then (with your wife being so sexually vivacious and open-minded) perhaps that is something you could explore within your marriage. there are many very happily married couples who are in sexually open or polygamous relationships, my Husband and i being among them. try broaching the subject with your wife, perhaps along the lines of swinging.

but maybe there is more behind your hobbying than variety? perhaps it's the thrill of doing something immoral in the eyes of society, or of risking your happy home. if that is what is behind this, then having a sexually open relationship with your wife will change nothing. those would be issues best addressed by a qualified psycho-therapist.

THAT IS HILARIOUS!!!!!


Everybody's got sumpin.lol

is amazing.

"I'd never do what YOU are doing!" being shouted at a guy from members of this board???

While, we're engaging in armchair analysis, projection anyone?

Folks, monogamy has never been the norm- no matter how hot the wife or, less frequently, the husband. Holding up 'faithfulness' in marriage as some sanctified state is just puritanical bullshit and those of you seeking to lay the guilt trip on the OP are actually kind of funny.

We all can find excuses for our involvement in the hobby. "Poor me. My wife is sick/fat/menopausal/bad at sex, etc". Well guys, guess what. You won't die if you don't have sex and I'm guessing that the same guys who are throwing stones made the same "For better or for worse" vows that the OP probably did. Now that things are worse, you want a free pass, though. In my world, I call that hypocrisy.

Me? I have a very lovely wife who takes very good care of me and I'm grateful for that. I also take tremendous pleasure from my forays in the hobby and that makes life better. No guilt- no apologies. Yeah, I break my vows a few times a year but I was a naive, idealistic, idiot when I made them. Now, I'm grown up, more practical, AND happier!

lilli, I think it's pure and simple fear...that we may find someone other than them attractive/better mate/better father material/better in bed.

Or most men who think like that are just hypocrites and live by the double standard rule.

You may, unfortunately, (or perhaps fortunately, depending on perspective) have a sexual addiction, which is controlling your behavior. You can Google Sexaholics Anonymous or Sex Addicts Anonymous for that web site, if interested in exploring that possibility.  We all have addictions, in my opinion, that seem to control us--including, but not limited to alcohol, gambling, cell phones, our computers--and it takes more than just will power to deal with it.  Some deny there is such a thing as sexual addiction, but I certainly believe it is a reality.  Good luck.  I do envy you.  Just wish I had a wife with an interest in sex.

...."Yeah, I break my vows a few times a year but I was a naive, idealistic, idiot when I made them"....

How is that different from..."My wife is sick/fat/menopausal/bad at sex, etc"...

The only difference is some guys blame the wife, and you blamed your own idiocy for ever making those vows...

Some guys are smacking their foreheads because if they had a wife who was interested and attracted to them, they wouldn't even be here. Yes some are hypocrites...but monogamy is a choice..you either are or you're not. Don't get married if you can't do the time...we live in this society and like it or lump it, there are societal rules we either closely or loosely follow..again a choice.

And you have your free pass, why not the ones you are poking at ...they can have theirs too, whether they agree or disagree with the OP.

For example, just google "sperm competition." It is clear that women are non-monogamous, just as are men; though there is reason to believe that the non-monogamous impulses in each case have a different evolutionary motivation.

I merely responded from the male perspective because the original poster is male.

However, the fact that a person has a drive or impulse based upon our ancestral hunter-gatherer past does not mean it is useful for a person to act on those impulses in the present.

For example, the desire to choke the life out of one's boss is no doubt an evolved impulse; but the rational mind overrides that in order to avoid adverse consequences such as the electric chair.

The fact that a person may have non-monogamous impulses does not necessarily mean that exercising them is adaptive in the same sense they were adaptive 100,000 years ago.

For example, whereas in the past these far-flung matings would have resulted in offspring; within the hobby all females can essentially be considered sterile from the perspective of the hobbyists. So resources are expended with no genetic pay-off.

is not something that often they "have the power of choice".

One first needs to understand the triggers of PTSD and how to avoid those triggers and adjust one's lifestyle to also avoid those triggers.

It is not as simple as one might think.

if she doesn't put out. lmao

Honestly, what a fucking bunch of hypocrites we have on this board.

I expect this kind of shit from the Mangina's of the board, but the rest of you should look in the fucking mirror before criticizing someone for doing the exact fucking thing as you.

Not only can this question not be answered by a bunch of people on an internet board---this particular board is largely populated with men who have a very specific bias, and an endless list of reasons/rationalizations as to why they P4P.

With very, very few exceptions, every man here will say: “I “only” P4P because….[fill in the blank] and if THAT wasn’t the case, I would not do this”.  But, reality is, choosing to engage in P4P is a choice just like any other. Everyone has free will, so we all get to choose and live then consequences of those choices.

Why are you making the choices YOU are making? Why do you risk your family life for a couple of hours of fun? Again, only you can say. But if your wife/family is important enough to you that you do not want to risk losing them, and you “know” your wife would be crushed if she found out and you don’t want that to happen, then do not make personal choices that lead you directly down that path.

If you don’t understand your own motivations enough to understand why you still P4P when you have a sexually vibrant wife at home, seeking help from a counselor might be a good option.

Another option would be to actually *talk to* your wife about your feelings.  Who knows---if she is as frisky as you say, maybe she would be open to the idea of expanding the sexual boundaries within your marriage. Hell…she might even be thinking along the same lines, but is afraid to *talk to* you about it…..

I'm a fucking horndog!!! Duh. lmao

I would give the OP a serious answer, but I think you summed it up quite nicely.

Fucking around is one thing, fucking around and feeling remorse about it is quite another. I think the OP needs to have an honest conversation with himself, or I guess having that conversation with a professional listener (therapist) isn't such a bad idea either.

As men we are never satisfied with fucking one women. This is the main reason that most guys see providers.

You do know that this site is primarily devoted to married guys discussing how best to cheat on their wives without getting caught, don't you?

Yep. Gotta taste all the cupcakes

First, thank you all for the input. I am pretty clear on the fact that I am fucked up, a moron, stupid, along with blessed and lucky.
I was diagnosed with PTSD about a year ago, after a couple of tours overseas and loosing a child.
The night I posted this I met to post it to LG on the Erotic Highway. My guilt came from my wife wanting to have phone sex and I didn't. She then reminded me of all the nights that I turn her down and she cries about it (after I have already seen a provider that day). The arguement then proceded into me be a detached asshole who never returned from the war.
Anyway, thank you for allowing me to vent and showing myself what an asshole I am.

I provider care for a person daily who, due to serious PTSD complications, is incapable of basic self-care.

But I truly find hard to believe the "I have PTSD therefore I can't control myself, I MUST have sex with providers." Really? What would he do if he were broke? Would he rape them? Of course not!

Power of choice is operative here.

I'm not trying to say what his choice should be, only stating that he has that power.

After reading a smattering of answers to the OP (mainly from the people I find interesting), I can only say, "WOW!"

Since when did judgement and moral rectitude become our national pastime?  I know, I know, I see numerous examples of it every single day in real life and in the media.  But seriously aren't we all, in some way, living in glass houses as we toss these stones loaded with hypocrisy and venom?

Some people jump out of airplanes for fun.  Others drive really fast on motorcycles.  Each of these activities can easily get you killed and cause subsequent devastation to your loved ones.  Why is it that these actions are deemed morally acceptable and the OP's actions are not?

It is so easy for us to sit back, cozy in our own little worlds of rationalization and delusion and say, "I would NEVER to that!"  But how do we really know?  None of us are the OP.  None of us know what is life and inner mind are really like.

Perhaps he is an incredibly loving husband.  Maybe his wife is happy in her life and with their marriage.  Is he morally more reprehensible simply because he seeks out some NSA sex on the side?  Aren't we all simply the last minute manifestations of a line of animals that have been evolving over millions of years?  Is this guy that much more wrong than a faithful husband that invests nothing in his marriage and subtly demeans and disrespects his wife, breaking her down and making her feel unloved?

Yeah, we can all say that lying and cheating are wrong.  Have any of us ever done either of those things?  Have we not had our own, personal reasons for doing so at the time?

The OP may come to the conclusion that P4P is not worth it and quit.  He may eventually be caught and have to deal with the aftermath and his culpability.  As long as he realizes that he is responsible for his decisions and their consequences, who are we to judge?

*off my tiny little soapbox*

Basically, same sentiments expressed.  And even some of the same phrases and word choices.  I fear for you - LOL!

Only difference, I am not married.  One of the reasons?  I am pretty sure that it would be very difficult for me to remain monogamous.

I did not say that. Your quote it wrong. I just said that I thought it was interesting when someone brought up depression. I never thought that the PTSD could have led to all of this. I am in therapy for it and have not even shared with the therapist that I see providers.

I realize I have the power to not spend the money, not sleep around. I don't understand why I am choosing to do it.

You turned down your wife after having seen a provider. Are you outta your fricken mind???? You have the audacity to come here and complain to us that there MAY be something wrong with you??? GET HELP!!!!!

This is one time i wish stanva was here to kick your ass around.

Perhaps that would be a very productive forum in which to explore such an issue.

"what's wrong with me" in that I cheat on my wife by seeing providers to, what are my motives for doing so, and taking the chance of her finding out, and losing her. It's easy to say that men and women are not meant to be monogamous, but it is more helpful to determine what are your motives for taking a chance and losing something most other men envy. And, we seldom have just one motive, but they are usually combined in a certain feedback loop that's very difficult to discern, separate and break apart, which lead one to no longer care about how our behavior would be experienced by the people we care about. It's like our caring has a threshold, and certain things come together that push us past that threshold. In my case, I was faithful through two marriages, and 28 years of married life. But, then the appearance of a possibly life threatening disease made me realize that I wasn't going to live forever, so I got out of a bad marriage, and started in the hobby. Even now, if I feel that big metal door to my new wife's heart slamming shut, I'm prepared to take matters into my own hands, because life is just too fucking short to stay unhappy for very long.

So, you need to talk to someone in-depth, and look at your hobby habit in detail before you're really going to get the answers you're looking for.

John, i have noticed that on these topics you tend to focus on the procreative drive, which is a great place to start but a poor one with which to build an entire argument or theory.

i have no interest in boring the tar out of everyone, so i will keep my thoughts brief: there are other benefits to non-monogamy, as useful (heck i'd say "critical") to our species today as they were 100,000 years ago. specifically, the effects on our emotional and psychological development and maturity. sexual monogamy has, imho, been the cause of untold distress and outright dysfunction for "modern" humankind, leaving most of us lost and severely emotionally stunted. but of course significant change cannot come until we re-evaluate our values and mores as a society...which is not likely to happen in my lifetime.

especially in its most powerful form: insecurity.

But I agree. What a fucking dumbass. I'm not married, but *I* know that's asking for fucking trouble.

Shit. Goddam good thing I went and stocked up today. Fucking idiots like this make it soooo much better when I have a fucking drink inhand.

If she's as beautiful as you say, and loves sex, I think I can keep her occupied while you're out fucking around on her.

Come on! It's only fair! And besides, I'll guarantee you will have extra time for your 'extra-curricular activities'....

not the case, she has no interest in doing it or anything like it with any one on the planet male or female, or doing it alone for that matter, trust me on this, she is done with fun.

First off, you wouldn't bore the tar outa me. LOL

But next ... your advocacy of non-monogamy seems to stand in contrast with your attitude about clients.

Specifically, if I understand it correctly, you see a client's verification request (i.e. that he will be having sex with someone else) as marking the end of your sexual relationship with that client.

If I further recall correctly (and feel free to correct me if I haven't!), you see the client's exploration of sex elsewhere as an indication that his needs are not being met with you.

This seems to stand in contrast, at least to some degree, with your advocacy of non-monogamy. Wouldn't clients who were also seeing a couple of other providers be ... less emotionally stunted ... than those hide-bound traditionalists locked into monogamous mindsets?

I know men are wired for sex with mutiple partners, but I would have been content with one woman for the rest of my life, the ssx was great, it wasn't just the sex, it was having someone to share your life with,the sex just made the relationship even better.

I'm looking for an ATF who can fill the sex void, I would be very happy with one ATF who I could rely on. Still searching, I did find one, she was getting ready to retire when we met and she has since retired. I found another and she flaked out and has not been seen in months.

Yes, no doubt, just as many women feel insecure -- so do many men.

But I don't see men's failure to emphasize the polygamous (or, rather, hypergamous) orientation of women as necessarily evidence of this insecurity.

Let me put some additional factors out there.

Even though modern studies indicate that wives cheat every bit as much as husbands, and genetic studies indicate that roughly 10% of kids born to married couples are the result of the wife cheating (and in an era of easily-available birth control that means a LOT of cheating is going on by wives), to a large degree our mindsets and beliefs are formed by our windows on the larger world.

And our windows onto the larger world are, pretty much, media -- usually visual media.

And these media go way out of their way to stress and point out male infidelity; but rarely mention female infidelity even though it is just as prevalent. According to the mediated reality that most people absorb, men are cheaters with a high sex drive and women are not.

So to a large degree, our opinions and views are affected by the worldview we absorb via mediated (i.e. false) reality.

In addition, we hear infinitely about the much-hallowed single mother. Single motherhood has been elevated to sainthood even when (or even especially when) by choice. It is seen as *good* when women actively choose to exclude male influence from the lives of their children.

And in this regard, we hear a great deal about so-called "deadbeat dads" with damned little balance.

Speaking of which, because men are societally "on the hook" to provide (at least materially) for their offspring; female infidelity can cause men to become obligated (even legally) to provide for the offspring of their wife's infidelity.

Maybe our mediated reality would come closer to actual reality if ardent feminists, seeking balance and fairness of course, advocated that stories of men being forced to pay for the offspring of their wife's infidelity be aired regularly. Or movies in which it is the woman who is being the low-down no-good cheater, etc.

This, I think, would be quite helpful in putting men's heads right.

Meanwhile, let's not forget that women file for divorce twice as often as men. Accepting for the moment that men and women are moral equals and that TRUE fault would lie no more with one sex than the other; this differential in filings would reflect a different motivation.

Specifically, in roughly 90% of cases in which child custody (and hence in absentia access to the other partner's resources) is disputed; females win.

This sort of situation; where the woman is twice as likely to end a relationship and 9 times as likely to prevail in certain disputes regarding it ... will most definitely make men feel insecure.

In order to ameliorate this insecurity, based on sex-bias, I propose that all child custody always be joint physical and that ZERO child support be rendered. While with mommy, the children live as she can provide. While with daddy, the children live as he can provide. (With women outnumbering men in colleges and as law school graduates, this is NOT consigning anyone to poverty.)

This would disincentivize divorce differentials and ameliorate insecurities.

In addition, as I've mentioned in another thread; authority without responsibility has to go.

This idea that partners would have a legally enforceable monopoly on each other's sex supply while NOT being penalized for failure to meet their responsibility to meet each other's sexual needs is crazy. In practice, it results in legally enforced chastity in too many cases. Nobody should have a right to legally enforce chastity on someone else.

I would like to see "inadequate sex" added as a "fault" ground for divorce; with anything less than 50x/year (by either partner) being seen as psychological/emotional abuse. (Except in cases of physical or psychological incapacity; but such incapacity would automatically allow the non-incapacitated partner to get it elsewhere.)

This would also lessen insecurities.

but it won't help this guy.

i hate to say it OSP but sometimes your posts read like they come from a self righteous overzealous ponce.

is being married to a young hottie doing something evil to your ego?

have a tea and chill a little......

in order to change things you have to accept reality as it is first. beating yourself up (or letting others beat you up) for being wrong is just going to dig your current rut deeper.

the sense of guilt and being wrong is simply wasted energy. the brain does not work well with negatives.

accept your reality and frame how you want to change it in terms of positive affirmative goals.

you need to talk to someone who is trained to help and not set yourself up as a target for some of the more aggressive posters here. repost to the LG on TEH and/or find some professional therapy elsewhere.

i can understand and empathize with the PTSD issues. take it easy on yourself.

you are where you are. where do you want to go?

He has a hot-ass wife at home that loves to fuck and he's out there fucking around? WTF?!

I fuck around cuz I can. I'm single and have a few bucks to hobby with. Shit, sometimes I don't even need that.

But this fucking guy is complaining? Like I said in my post below. Hook a brother up. I'll TOFTT while he's out fucking around. Shit!

you can give yourself. Talk to your therapist about your hobby life. If you feel that s/he is disapproving of it, or judgmental, find one who is not. Be upfront, and ask their opinion. Please, please don't waste your money on therapy if you can't discuss this issue.

Not really angry, just want to get your attention, and have you take what I've said seriously. You are wasting your money in therapy when you refuse to discuss this issue. I've had several therapist over the years, and I would never be able to discuss the hobby, because I know how judgmental they were regarding extra-marital sex; both men and women. The last guy came highly recommended, and when I told him of my plans to see a provider, he was interested in why I felt the need to do so, and when he felt he had a good understand, all he said was, "Well, be careful!" You need someone like that.

and i've never cheated on anyone in my life. i try not to be judgemental but when someone like this OP comes into play,coupled with his initial claims,i just lose my mind.

We're all hypocritical to some extent yes....ie..Prostitution is not legal yet we have engaged there-in.

I don't usually respond to alias, but I challenge you to go down to your nearest VA, and tell some of you Vets all about your theory. Or, go tell some of the victims of violent crime your theory. We're not talking ADD, or Chronic Fatigue Syndrome, etc.

otherwise I would have jumped his shit. Having a military family has given me perspective on validity of symptoms.




(still not an MD)

Salute when he says he's been diagnosed with PTSD after having served two tours of duty overseas, and losing a child. You may not like how he's presented himself, but I don't abide by people disparaging our Vets when it comes to flippant regarding PTSD.

what symptoms would you like to know. yes, I could not drive a car when I came back because I wanted to drive in the middle of the road (IED's are on the sides),I also wanted to ram into the back of any car in my way,  I have reached for a weapon when my wife got back in bed because she startled me while I was sleeping, I couldn't (and sometimes still can't) go to loud places. I associate everything with my daughter dying, even good things. I have dreams of her talking to me from her coffin to tell me that I missed her life.
That I should have been there with her.

I am not complaining and I won't complain when I go again. I did not associate the hobby with PTSD. It just made me think that the depression that comes with it helped me make some bad choices.

if you recall any of the long, boring (lol) posts i have made on the subject in the past, you know my primary purpose in this hobby falls quite far outside the norm. i wish to serve my clients beyond the physical, to address and tend to certain emotional needs above all else. i am there to empathize...to listen, understand and accept them without judgment. my hope is that with me they find a safe place where they can just BE. no facades, no kowtowing and catering to the whims and wishes of someone else, no inhibitions, no shame, and hopefully no guilt. unlike the other women in their life, present or past, i embrace and validate their masculinity and innate needs and desires, of which sex is always only a small part.

so in a very real sense i see what i do in this hobby as a form of intensive therapy. a therapy which hopefully results in greater self-awareness and acceptance, and just overall balance and peace. but not every man needs this kind of therapy...perhaps they are among the fortunate to be living in accordance with their nature and truth, or perhaps they are just not at the point in their life journey where they have the patience, desire or ability to undergo this kind of "work." those men probably represent the majority of the "hobby" world, and those are the men i reject as clients.

and now you are probably thinking, i have not answered your question at all! lol. but bear with me here...it comes down to this: if a man has chosen to specifically see me as a provider, and i have chosen to see him as a client, then this decision has been made with the understanding that we will undergo the therapeutic process described above. it is with the understanding that our relationship will not be about anonymous, meaningless casual sex. and although i am a strong proponent of anonymous, meaningless casual sex, that is not my purpose in this hobby.

if a man is seeing me and a couple of other providers, then i take that to mean he does not need "me" specifically, he does not need or is not ready for this kind of therapy. however if a man is seeing me and developing a more fulfilling intimate and sexual life with his wife, or seeing me and developing the confidence and knowledge to date the right women...or (as is the case with one old friend) even developing the courage to make a radical life change and pursue polyamory...then these are all wonderful things and what i am hoping to achieve in the first place.

when a client requested a reference from me, that told me that i had erred in my judgment. he was obviously not quite prepared to take that journey. and of course there is nothing wrong with that...we must all get there in our own time. but if he is not ready for it, then i really would serve no purpose to him. hence, no reason to continue the sexual relationship.

do i wish for my clients to be sexually monogamous to me (excluding their mates of course)? no. my wish is to represent a growth and learning period in the life of my clients...that point where they learn who they truly are, accept and embrace who they truly are, and get the courage to share their lives with people who will do the same. so i actually want my clients to "graduate" me...to not need me any longer because those needs are being addressed and fulfilled by the other women in their lives.

also remember that my Husband and i have NEVER been sexually monogamous, so most of my sexual relationships with other men is outside the hobby. and with most of those men i am having very casual, very non-intimate sex. but for those men i am merely a toy (which i love btw)...for my clients i wish to be much more.

did any of that help? lol.

That is so sad...but what is almost criminal is the bible cult bullshit that might have helped...I say might have because you did mention some fucked up christian crap involved.

Sometimes something seems contradictory at a superficial level; but at a deeper level is complementary instead.

What you've described makes perfect sense as complementary without contradiction, and your clients, methinks, are lucky to have you and you are, at a certain level, likewise lucky to have them.

You're a beautiful person -- and I mean that in a complimentary way.

Dear Saluting:
I was wondering how strong is your libidinal proclivity? How often do you think about sex? Would you be an extremely impulsive person? Please describe your personality. That would give more insight with respect to your imprudent choices. What are the thoughts that would enter your mind when you see a picture of an attractive woman? At this point would your impulses take over and would you go with what you want at the moment over what you would be risking if you did do this?

Learning more about PTSD may be a good thing for your wife.  Perhaps your therapist has already done this. If not, it could be done with you also present, or with just your wife and your therapist meeting, without you also being present.

Your feelings of emotional numbness are symptoms of PTSD, and your therapist can help your wife to understand this.

It can be very challenging to be in a relationship with someone with PTSD, and your therapist can be supportive to your wife as she works on these challenges.    

You are not an asshole. You have been traumatized, and are experiencing very human and understandable reactions to the trauma.

saluting 6/18/2010 4:33:29 PM
"I have a beautiful wife, who absolutely loves sex. I thinks he thinks about it more then the average guy


Going only on the limited information supplied.

You had a mother that you loved dearly and she was very pretty when you were in your youth.
Your Dad cheated on her for years without your Mom finding out.
Subconsiously you are following your Dads footsteps.
 
From a different angle... You  referred to your wife as "he".. You  might  be forcing yourself to experience hordes of women, to combat your hidden attraction to men.
Similar to a Gay guy who decides to hide from his gayness by becoming a priest.
PM me if you would like to further discuss your issues.
My online rates are reasonable.

We are looking for a few beautiful minds to join our team of online help sites.
PM me for more details..
lilli I will be contacting you in person.
No offense johngaltnh, lilli is beautiful  with  more than just her mind.

Looks like this side of the barn is more lively..
The Good the Bad and The Ugly..

that I'm taking complete responsibility for my behavior. It's completely my own choice to engage in the hobby and it makes me much happier.

Using someone else's illness or disinterest in sex to excuse one's own choices about behavior is cowardly. As I said before, no one has ever died from not getting any.

Free pass? I don't give a shit about a pass because I don't give a shit about what anyone here thinks about my involvement in the hobby. The self-righteous, Puritanical jerks here can condemn me all they want for 'cheating' on my SO. Makes no difference to me.

The difference is salutin asked whats wrong with him?
Did anyone else have ask? Not that I saw.
I hobby because I like hobbying.
I'm agree with you wormwood ..I don't care what they think.but when they ask I amswer

I simply mistyped. The s at then end of think belongs to with he....making it "she". I am not gay and have desire of being with a man

saluting, 6/20/2010 5:52:05 AM
I simply mistyped.  I am not gay and have desire of being with a man.

"Have a desire of being with a man"?

Desires are impossible to overcome the subconscious mind.

If you are uncomfortable with your therapist meeting your wife, perhaps your therapist can suggest a colleague who can provide the psychoeducation and support to your wife.

that high a frequency of Freudian slips might also be interpretable as deliberate. anyway it's got me suspecting the thread might be a joke.