Your logic is flawed?
As far as the “drug problem” in the US? Illegal drug use spans every demographic you can name. You seem to be suggesting that “drug addicted prostitutes” are such a significant part of the “drug problem” in the US, that legalizing prostitution might reduce illegal drug use?
I’m not sure how you make that connection.
For starters: PEOPLE (not "women") addicted to drugs MAY do whatever it takes to get the money they need to buy them. But, not everyone with a substance abuse problem is out hookin’ between highs. Nor is everyone engaged in sex work a drug user. And there are plenty of people who use illegal drugs recreationally, who are neither sex workers, nor addicted.
And, not sure how you came up with this: “when prostitution is legal, there will also be a lot of women earning money for stuff besides drugs. College, clothing, a nice car. Whatever”
WTF? You say that as if you think there are not already ‘a lot of women earning money for stuff other than drugs'.
Legalizing prostitution would remove the possibility of being arrested for solicitation. It does not automatically (or in any way, logically) follow that legalization of prostitution would stop anyone from continuing to use drugs if they chose to, or prevent anyone else from selling them (whether that’s a drug cartel or a pharmaceutical company).
I was thinking about some things mentioned in the 'Good old days...' thread below. Several people compared the illegality of prostitution to the illegality of drugs (esp. marijuana). It also struck me again how often sex worker issues in the U.S. are associated with drug use. I thought I'd hash out some thoughts here, see what feedback I get.
Would legalizing prostitution reduce drug problems?
Drug dependency among sex workers is NOT a major issue in European countries with legalized prostitution. At least not compared to the U.S.
It's not just the U.S. vs. Europe either. In Romania, for example, most sex workers are drug users (and addicts, since the most common drug is heroin). Prostitution is illegal and heavily stigmatized in Romania. Romania is a source of many migrant sex workers in other European countries. But other European countries with legal prostitution have much lower incidence of drug use among prostitutes.
What I'm not sure about, however, is the possibility that the incidence of drug-addicted prostitutes is about the same from country to country. In countries with legalized prostitution, the sex workers (mostly female) comprise around 1% of the population (up to 7% in some places, like latin America). But in countries where prostitution is illegal (c.f. USA), the incidence appears to be much lower (~0.05%).
Basically, women addicted to drugs will do whatever it takes to get the money they need to buy them.
But when prostitution is legal, there will also be a lot of women earning money for stuff besides drugs. College, clothing, a nice car. Whatever. It's mostly these people that are not around in the U.S. (TER girls, sorry to say, are not typical)
In which case, legalizing prostitution doesn't fight drugs at all. It just encourages prostitution.
Whaddya think?
I knew a lawyer who was addicted to cocaine.
I knew a real estate agent who was addicted to crack.
Prostitution is a victimless crime. In fact it should not be a crime at all.
...as an argument for legalizing prostitution.
I'm on your side.
Being serious (about drugs esp. weed) , however in your first paragraph you said "I thought I'd HASH out some thoughts".............dude you wanna rephrase that?
Thank you
2011 = 28
I don't think legalizing prostitution would reduce drug use among providers. I don't think providers use drugs because of their profession. More likely they become prostitutes to get money for an existing habit, or have been introduced to drugs by a pimp in order to be turned out.
As for legalizing drugs, I strongly believe all drugs should be legal. This is a pragmatic position, not a moral one. Most drugs do terrible things. Even weed can, for some people, be a "gateway drug." I believe in legalization because:
1) Drug use can never be eradicated; it's human nature.
2) Keeping drugs illegal drives up the price, creating huge profits for drug lords and terrorists.
3) Police resources are diverted from reducing other crimes such as murder, rape, assault and robbery.
4) Legal drugs could be taxed, creating a new revenue stream for municipalities. This is exactly why weed is being legalized in many places.
It's easy for politicians and sociologists to point out (and quantify) the economic damage that drugs cause. They do all the time. It's harder for people to point out any economic damage from prostitution. All they can do is take a moral stance or argue for some vague damage to family or something. The most effective arguments against prostitution have historically been made by linking prostitution to other crimes. If prostitutes and drugs go together then that is bad. If prostitutes and slavery go together, that is bad. Etc.
There is, unfortunately, no doubt that prostitution and slavery are linked. 'nuff said. It's a shame, but money makes people do shitty things to other people.
But drugs? That's the debate. I agree that prostitution and drugs don't necessarily have anything to do with each other. But they're nonetheless correlated, at least here in the U.S. Can an argument be made that legalizing prostitution would reduce drug problems? If so, then this is maybe powerful ammo against people who want to keep prostitution illegal and unregulated.
Seriously, guys. We can sit here and bullshit about how much to shave our balls and whether to use an envelope, or we can maybe help change the world.
I think you are laboring under a stereotype driven misconception about what most escorts do with their money. While it may be true that many common street walkers have drug dependency issues I think it's also pretty clear that the vast majority of "middle class" sex workers do not.
Obviously all any of us have to go on here are our opinions since there are no hard statistics available in regards to the breakdown of sex worker's income, lifestyle etc. I just go by what I see.
I'm not laboring under a misconception. The link between low-end prostitution and drugs in the U.S. (and elsewhere) is well documented. But regardless of whether it's true or not, it's still a common perception that is used frequently to stigmatize prostitution and prostitutes. I know very well what a lot of people spend their money on. I know what I've spent my money on. Yea, I was a starving art type once long ago. And everyone loves a crazy guy who likes to dance at their hen parties in mainland Europe.
The question is whether we can turn this 'misconception' around to argue for legalizing prostitution. Besides tax revenue, what will legal prostitution 'do' for society?
Obviously all any of us have to go on here are our opinions since there are no hard statistics available in regards to the breakdown of sex worker's income, lifestyle etc. I just go by what I see.
which I as both a "john" and ocassional drug user, I found offensive on many levels.
You are obviously a drug user as well, as no one not stoned out of his mind could possibly make such a weak leap of logic.
Yes, the link between low-end prostitution and drug abuse is clear but you didn't mention the words "low-end" or anything like that in your initial post.
My argument is that neither you, me or anyone else knows what the percentage of low-end vs. middle class vs. high priced providers is. Since the prevalence of drug abuse is lower among the higher end girls it's impossible to know how much significance legalization would have because we don't know how many prostitutes would be effected by it.
Ad to this the fact that lower end street walkers and BP girls will never submit to regular testing and regulations that would become a part of any legalized prostitution initiative. They will continue to work off the books and illegally because they always have.
To my way of thinking the segment of prostitutes that would benefit the most from legalization will actually not benefit at all because they will not succumb to the regulation process.
Your logic is flawed?
As far as the “drug problem” in the US? Illegal drug use spans every demographic you can name. You seem to be suggesting that “drug addicted prostitutes” are such a significant part of the “drug problem” in the US, that legalizing prostitution might reduce illegal drug use?
I’m not sure how you make that connection.
For starters: PEOPLE (not "women") addicted to drugs MAY do whatever it takes to get the money they need to buy them. But, not everyone with a substance abuse problem is out hookin’ between highs. Nor is everyone engaged in sex work a drug user. And there are plenty of people who use illegal drugs recreationally, who are neither sex workers, nor addicted.
And, not sure how you came up with this: “when prostitution is legal, there will also be a lot of women earning money for stuff besides drugs. College, clothing, a nice car. Whatever”
WTF? You say that as if you think there are not already ‘a lot of women earning money for stuff other than drugs'.
Legalizing prostitution would remove the possibility of being arrested for solicitation. It does not automatically (or in any way, logically) follow that legalization of prostitution would stop anyone from continuing to use drugs if they chose to, or prevent anyone else from selling them (whether that’s a drug cartel or a pharmaceutical company).
And, not sure how you came up with this: “when prostitution is legal, there will also be a lot of women earning money for stuff besides drugs. College, clothing, a nice car. Whatever”
WTF? You say that as if you think there are not already ‘a lot of women earning money for stuff other than drugs'.
In countries with legal prostitution, there is also a HUGE class of mid-range brothel workers, plus more street workers and part time higher enders. These 'extra' women, for the most part, don't have problems with drugs.
The question is: Assuming low-end prostitution provides a way to support a drug habit, would flooding the market with legal prostitutes reduce the incidence of drug use among this segment of the population? If so, then legalizing prostitution might be a tactic in the drug war.
OF COURSE I am not saying that all prostitutes are on drugs, or that most drug use is by prostitutes. I am merely toying with the idea that the badness of drugs could be used as an argument for legalizing prostitution. That's the goal, right? Doesn't everyone here want prostitution to be legal?
Doesn't everyone here want prostitution to be legal?
No. Many sex workers (and non-sex workers) advocate for decriminalization---not legalization.
And no. I do not believe that flooding the market with ‘legal’ sex workers is going to deter someone with a substance abuse problem from continuing to have a substance abuse problem.
If that person is engaged in prostitution specifically to buy drugs, s/he will simply continue to do that; only now s/he does not have to worry about getting tossed in jail for solicitation. I do think that access to professional drug counseling ‘might’ help; depending on how serious that person was about kicking the habit.
And, just to be devils advocate here for a minute: while I am in no way suggesting I think it’s a good (or, even sane) idea to expend resources to arrest people for prostitution, given the assbackwards, upsidedown way the system is set-up today regarding people with substance abuse problems---getting tossed into the system a few times for solicitation might be the only way an addict gets access to the help s/he needs.
The ‘ol: do you want to go to jail, or rehab?
Again: not suggesting that arresting anyone for prostitution is a reasonable substitute for responsibly addressing drug addiction issues at a social level. But there is a strange irony there.
is because most people take drugs initially to try something new. They like it so much and it makes them feel that their lives are better than they are. As use continues, they continue to hide from their lives. "flooding the market w/ legal prostitutes" won't begin to touch the deep reasons that people use drugs - which is to hide from whatever hurts them in their lives.
This is a gross oversimplification, but no, it wouldn't reduce the drug problem.
Prostitution, in general, produces no victim; drugs, on the other hands, are harmful to human health and harmful to human society.
Also, drugs are often related to other crimes: guns, murders, contrabands, fraud, corruptions ...
Prostitution has no credible links to anything bad. There are studies on possible links between prostitution and human traffickings, STDs, ... however, these studies produce inconclusive results whether there are more illegal immigrants in other fields vs in prostitution, whether prostitutes spread more STDs vs general female population does.
There are many potential benefits of prostitution though.
Well, not for you. More for me. But I'll certainly pass on your thoughts and that you would appreciate her insight!
Sorry. I'm a dick that way. I meet a beautiful, wonderful lady, and I kinda get my hooks in. Know what I'm sayin'?!
It's a curse I have to bare.
All together now.....
It sucks to be Mikey! lol!!!
were hookers we would not have a drug problem... unless you live under a rock you would see that most drug users are not hookers...drug is a huge business(hundreds of billions of dollars) that cannot be stopped no matter what we do..