...It was really surprising to find out how ladies that weren't providers viewed providers in a such rude and condescending way.

Not that I asked them straight forward, but if you talk for a long time, it was bound somewhere down the road, the topic leads to sex and eventually me or her brush upon the topic "escort services" or they would just all say it, "prostitution".

I always tried to get them to talk and get her opinion as much as possible, just out of curiosity of what they actually think.

It was a little bit funny though, because what they told me was just like a person spitting while laying down.

Almost every one of them were still stereo-typical about the whole "escort service" thing.  And marriage wasn't even a concern.

After what they said, I replied that I would feel much safer with a provider than a random lady that I would meet in a bar.

They were surprised, and I was surprised by them being surprised.

I just gave the reasons..which I think are totally true...
-providers have an incentive to take care of their    body
-providers always required to wear protection,

and most of all(which I didn't say it to any of them), if through TER, mostly the providers are more trustworthy than them.  

They were in just strong denial.  

Why all the negativity and denial, when the risk is almost the same or less?

Three major challenges in this biz - physical safety, legal risks, and social image.  I think social is the one we get affected by the most, on a day to day basis.

your both not drunk when you go back to her place.  Pretty much a requirement for protection to be properly employed.
skb

on a day to day basis.  Women who are in control of and aware of their sexuality are often branded.  It is no surprise that in a country that constantly shows escorts as "druggies" victims of abuse or pimped out that most look down on us.

In fact, the old Starbucks logo which is coming back has been attacked by a Christian group in California as " looking like a prostitute."  I wish I looked that etheral!

Women are socialized to bash other women as a way to separate themselves as being "better" or more virtuous.  This is done, in part, because there are a limited number of eligible men to the higher ratio of women in our culture...  You have to separate yourself as being better *somehow*, right??  :-/  Especially when talking to a man...

Factor in as well that most civilian women that suppress their sexuality are probably intimidated by the idea of a woman that can embrace her sexuality...let alone have control of it enough to make money at it and have men line up to want it, etc.  There is usually a tinge of jealousy in there also fueling that bashing...for secretly, we all want to be desired like that, don't we??  Even if one doesn't want to be an escort or sex worker...

Ultimately though, when there are precious few stories other then the sensationalized tales of abuse and exploitation that are seen in the media, there is no other information for them to go by...

And don't plan on that changing any time soon...

Men in our society do also perpetuate this problem of women being able to embrace their sexuality too.  The Madonna/Whore complex is more pervasive then people want to admit I think...

xoM

*edits for the Typo Queen
-- Modified on 5/16/2008 7:28:03 AM

-- Modified on 5/16/2008 7:32:14 AM

But you better not make it while operating outside the societally browbeaten, brainwashed “Box”.

A recent study puts marriage in a demonstrable decline, yet with few practical benefits to be had with a legal/religious monogamist union the pressure is still omnipresent to marry.

I guess it is more socially polite to marry someone, and then several years later employ lawyers at great expense to utilize the family law courts so you can walk away with half of your spouse’s accrued riches rather than take a known, historically high demand commodity/service and make oneself entrepreneurially self sufficient. And "a pox" upon any pragmatic male who opts for a no strings attached business rental agreement to satisfy his instinctual libido needs.      

who do not hobby also think poorly of both the guys and ladies that play in this biz.

On a whole the US is not that mature in terms of an open mindedness and acceptance of sex outside of traditional relationships.  As such stereotypical insights get coupled with misinformation and biased perception to create a 'better than thou' POV...  

-- Modified on 5/16/2008 9:18:32 AM

I've had guy friends broach this subject and rather than out myself, I mimic this stereotypical b.s. so as to avoid suspicion. Hey, I'd rather they think I'm a normal civvie girl who thinks ill of it all than find out and possibly tell my family or friends that I am doing this. I find the more horrified you look, the more believable it is. Good trick ladies for those of you also trying to avoid suspicion.

However, in reality, I wish the 2 sides were closer together, but what do you expect? We are with their men. They can't like it too much. When I had a bf cheat on me once, I didn't like it so much either. You have to share for it not to count!

Katie

I think we providers perpetuate it even further by not admitting that we are doing this as a business, and we are normal, nice people.  We arn't drug addicts, or street walking women with a needle in our arm, with a pimp behind the door.
But I to would never want my parents, or god forbid, my son to ever know what I am doing.  And that pisses me off that I feel this way.  Because really, I am making more of a living than I have in a long time.  I don't rip people off or short them on their time, I am not buying drugs with my money, I'm supporting a child through Law School.
I think that most of us see 'escort services' as a seedy, shady operation.  Why not, it was for the most part up until TER's invention.  I met a woman that ran an agency down in San Diego a few years ago, she was shady, and wow, the crap that went on around her, it was like a stereotypical scene of what the public views it to be.  
But I don't think I am anything like she and her agency and pimp driver's etc. were.  I don't add costs on when I show up, I don't inject a needle in my arm before they arrive, or after, and I am clean, educated, a past professional make up artist and hairdresser, I've been around the world a few times, I read a book everyday, go to the dentist, get check ups, and have a savings acct..  That's not the typical escort/prostitute profile.  I think the majority of the women here on TEr are the same as myself.  We've come along way since TER started, it changed this into a real business in my eyes.  I would have never walked the 'streets', with a pimp.  That is not me.  So, I hate to be like I am, still hiding what I do.

With this duplicitous existence we lead from both sides of the hobby, it's really hard to bite my tongue when the topic is discussed. I too find myself having to repeat the "socially expected" horror and misconceptions. Although I do sometimes find myself getting close to crossing the line when I do try to interject even a hint that maybe they aren't really seeing the whole picture. But it's hard to change any ingrained societal viewpoints when the other party is just not willing to listen - unless you are willing to pay the price for espousing a differing viewpoint on this subject. And since my SO is one of these people - and I'm not quite ready to be locked out of the house, I shut my yap!!

C_K

-- Modified on 5/16/2008 11:15:57 AM

via emails and vmails from escorts.  she found out i "dated" ladies of service.  she was not happy.  typical scenario.  we made it thru the fighting.  and almost divorce.  i am just much more careful now.  she thinks all escorts are filthy whores.  and i love them because they are filthy whores.  (no disrespect intended to escorts on my description of escorts as filthy whores.  i just like to think of you gals like that in my fantasies.)

Even if change occurs, there will always be puritanical hypocrisy for what we do, especially with Americans. This reason -- alone -- is why I choose my friends very carefully if they're in this business and why I have been hurt by a few of them.

More than once I have been put on the spot by a provider friend. That is why I don't usually hang out with providers. They just cannot keep their mouths zipped. It never fails, when we're out, they cannot keep the fact that they're "providers" hidden. Even if they only say that "they" escort and "not me", guess what: guilt by association. Sorry, but I don't want to be put in that type of uncomfortable situation.

No matter what these friends may think, this occupation is looked down upon (especially in America). So please be respectful of others' point of view and keep your business to yourself, unless you're not with me. They promise me in the beginning that they won't even mention they're a provider when we're out. Of course it's unavoidable if we see a client, but then they tell other civie people and get mad at me because I don't agree with their behavior. Then they try to make me feel bad that I don't accept them for who they are. Give me a break! That is silly. I specifically (in the beginning of these friendships) have asked them not to mention what they -- or I -- do for a living when we're out partying because most people don't accept it. They agree to my "only condition" about going out together and then wonder why I talk to them about slipups afterward. They're obviously frustrated with themselves and cannot admit they screwed up and then get mad at me. An apology would be nice but at least admit your wrong and try to be more careful the next time. Hey, none of us are perfect, and I know that I'm forgiving and also don't have a problem admitting when I'm wrong!

I swear the minute civie men learn what a friend of mine does and I'm out with her, they treat me differently and then just want to jump in the sack with you and treat you like a total slut. Hey! That's fine when I'm working but not in public. Suddenly, there's a whole entire flirting factor that's different than the respectfully "I want to get to know you."  That's a fact. I guess because some women need to always feel sexy, they don't have a problem with this. However, I'm a strong, independent woman too but it's not my choice to privy guys to my other occupation. So . . . if there's an agreement upfront then why the arguments after the fact. It's rude, childish, thoughtless and not smart on their part to voice their occupation in public to someone they've just met. But I'm getting too old for such pettiness anymore.

I feel that escorting should be Legal, but no matter what the outcome, people are still judgmental. And I -- for one -- do not appreciate being singled out when I have a high-profile business/artistic face in the community. Some ladies (and guys) just don't get it. This is not a full-time job for some of us. I also blur my face. Hint: I don't want civie people to know what I do on the side. It could hurt my career! Is it petty to be this way? Maybe to some but it's not my fault others are so negative about this profession. Let's face it:  Someone who works with little kids, or is a political leader, or is an actress, or in law enforcement, or is worried about her family, then that is why it needs to be a secret. If I were doing this full time and not interested in another career, or the fact that it is illegal, then I would not worry about hiding my face or having people know about it. But the truth is that I do have two other businesses to attend to and hopefully a future career in the arts industry. I also hope that I can handle being outed if I were ever famous and stick up for this profession, but I hope others have the decency not to out me.

I do like sex and enjoy my friends when we're alone but this is not my only lifestyle. So, given the reasons above, why in the world would I want civie people (even guys) to know I do this on the side when I'm out partying and not working? I don't. Sorry to say, but true. Most men won't even talk to other friends about their hobbying experiences for fear of repercussions.

Hugs,
Ciara




-- Modified on 5/16/2008 6:45:22 PM

women are just jealous of other women period...doesn't make a difference if one is a provider or not

I found out the hard way after my divorce several years back...I was the single mom in the neighborhood and felt like i was the black sheep

I do find some women in this business that are kind and of not the jealeous type and that's very refreshing to know them!!!!!

You should have added that if they are in a happy marriage now that it may be because of some lovely provider her husband has seen....LOL

But there are some of "us" that are not the jeolous type one ioda. I simply cannot tolerate jeolousy in women. However, my biggest complaint with women is trusting them and finding those that won't gossip.

I know I'm very content with who I am, albeit I'd like to lose a few pounds and get my chin back.  Other than that, I thank God that I don't have to shave my armpits (just no hair), am blonde so I don't have to shave my legs unless I have a date,  and I can usually tolerate myself on a bad day.

Hugs,
Ciara

-- Modified on 5/16/2008 4:03:34 PM

I do feel like I'm helping a hell of a lot of marriages, I don't want to take their husbands away from them, I would never do that.
My grandmother told me that men were always going to be more sexual than women, and never be intimidated by their looking at other women?  Well, I've got a surprize for her, I'm way more sexual than my bf, or maybe it's just he's getting older or something.
And Terri, I to raised my son in a beach area of L.A., and I was the only single mother at his school.  I had to go on the Boy Scout campouts alone, and Little League, and all the activities usually have a high percentage of the men coaching the kids, so I was not welcomed with open arms.  I was so intimadated also.  But, it worked out o.k., I ended up loving it there, and my son ended up a good kid, and I'm still friends with a couple of the mom's out there, but for the most part, women are jealous of other women.  I'm like Terri, I like women who can be friends and not try to take your'e man, or be jealous you'll take hers.  I like confident women. Kristi

yeah they are.

   HOT !!!

i get better guys when i charge than when i dont.

The fundamentals apply here.

While it is "normal" for males to literally compete for the "ownership" of a female, meaning for HER monogamous attention, it is fair more common in modern times for all women to constantly compete for the attention and desire of males.

Women hate each other. They will find any woman a threat, and will use anything - even imaginary things - as a defensive way to put other females down!

Have you ever met a woman who didn't find any way to put down another woman? Even their friends? I never have!

in a marriage is work, real work. most guys who like us working ladies and love to visit us have women at home who they love and don't want to lose her and the family.

They want a little variety, which is so normal because humans are not really built to be monogamious (not sure spelling) female or male no matter what we have been taught or made to believe tha it is "truly the way of the world".

So instead of having an affair. that costs so much more money and so much more personal time, which ends up hurting 10 x's worse to so and rest of family, than a slip with a "prostitute" instead of married neighbor lady down the street or from same office, where u or the other wont be able to go back to, then the job is over.
it is harder to get over a real affair than an hour tryst with someone who u dont even remember her name.

being a woman i know of such things. lol it is still jmo.

she is as negative about escorts as any woman I've met. Since it is only in recent decades that gays and lesbians have been been accepted (and that acceptance is far less than universal even today) I expected a bit more empathy for another group ostracized by society over the issue of sex.

I think my stepdaughter would say that sex workers of any type (not just escorts) are being exploited (even if they don't agree) and it demeans and objectifies all women. At which point I shut up. There are arguments you aren't going to win.

-- Modified on 5/17/2008 1:09:53 AM

Physicians, ministers, psychiatrists and some providers with whom I've discussed this issue have told me that they know of married couples in their 50's and 60's where the wife is no longer interested in sex and allows the husband to have the occassional visit with a provider.

These wives view that their main concern is emotional fidelity of their husbands. Their fear is that their husband will have an affair and become emotionally attached to a younger woman, resulting in a divorce. These wives give their husbands permission to see proivders so that their husbands sexual needs are met while asuring that the husbands remain emotionally committed and faithful to their wives.

It is the arrangement I have with my wife. It works for us. She views that providers should have full legal protections and should be treated wth respect. Those who are addicted to drugs or alcohol or are being abused by pimps or have been trafficked should be offered rehabilitation and education and their abusers prosecuted.

It is the criminalization of sex work that creates the greatest problems for providers, not the sex work itself, IMHO.

I have never told anyone else about my hobby - except for my wife, who gave me permission to do this. One of my fears is being exposed as a hobbyist - as it would harm my work.

No one should be outed either as a provider or a hobbyist. There are far too many rigid, controlling people who have a very narrow definition of what is right and wrong. They want to impose their moral judgements on others, rather than being tolerant of different forms of sexual expression. It is my experience that the people who attack providers and hobbyists often have little tolerance for gay, lesbian, and transgender people. These individuals are simply intolerant and hostile to diversity and unconventionality.

We all need to protect our identities in this world.

I think that I might be able to provide a bit more insight on this subject from a different perspective.  

When I was younger, I used to spend quite a bit of time simply hanging out at a very upscale strip club in which some "extras" were offerred.  Though not everything.  Since I spent SO much time there, I got to know many of the ladies on a fairly friendly basis.  

It was TRULY mind-boggling the extent to which they took notice of, and judged, their co-workers on EVERY little thing.  

I would have conversations with stripper A) who would happily grind against a fully dressed man using her butt and thought that acceptable, but would call stripper B) who would do the same thing with a fully dressed man, but also use her hand at times, very, very mean names for "going so far".  

And this might happen with many girls over many "big differences" like that.  

What I eventually figured out is that most of these ladies were looking for some sort of reason to be able to take a moral high ground.  Why they felt they needed to justify to themselves how they were "better" or whatnot, I won't go into.  But almost all of them spoke about how they were "better" than the average girl there.  

And the crap really hit the fan on those rare instances when a customer would mention the "massage" parlor a mile or so away.  

Getting to listen to a lady who freely gives handjobs spend a long time venting about the "evils" of a massage parlor can require quite a bit of patience.

Oh, and there were three foreign born ladies that I met there and they were all exactly the same way, including one from Sweden, which I initially thought might make her less judgemental.

Ultimately, I feel like a woman's viewpoint on any other woman is unique to the woman doing the evaluating.  Either you can pay attention if you like the woman or you can listen and internally roll your eyes, but it would be a really bad idea to question the evaluator.  It's almost always a very sensitive subject.

who does not put other women down. Personally, when I've dated in my personal life and my boyfriend (at the time) said to me, "Now that's a beautiful woman, don't you think?" I responded honestly, "Yes, that is a beautiful woman, but look at that one in the corner, hon."

I don't find myself getting jeolous. In fact, I make it a point to tell my friends what looks great on them if they want to look pretty and/or sexy. The only reason I would be offended is if my boyfriend kept noticing other women all the time and being a jerk about it, but I wouldn't be putting the women down. Instead, I'd be breaking up with him.

Hugs,
ciara





-- Modified on 5/18/2008 12:03:28 PM

sex industry workers - that includes other strippers, adult actresses, and of course, escorts.  

I have met a few who are honest about the fact that they indeed "work in the adult entertainment" industry.  What I find most refreshing are the few who are upfront about their purpose for stripping and are (either willing or NOT willing) able to provide extras or to meet 'outside' the office.  

These ladies are at least honest.  For those that are not willing or able to mentally get their heads around what is really going on around them, it is kinda sad... they live in lies and the delusion that they are somehow above what they accuse others of...

As to the male side of the equation, there are men who would question the validity or the "manliness" of men who would "pay for sex" as if there was something "wrong with them."  I have found that my brothers in this hobby are for the most part - pretty run of the mill, and with some exceptions - kinda boring - in a casper milktoast kinda way... We are what we are, and we have as many reasons for being a hobbiest as there are hobbiests...

I don't think any less or more of a man for hobbying - any more or less than I would think of a lady for hobbying...

What has taught me most, is that I've had intense relationships with escorts and strippers.... and while these relationships were leading to who knows what, for the most part, escorts conduct themselves better than civies... they are honest with their emotions and a bit more civil in evaluating the relationship.  Strippers (with some very rare exceptions) are somewhat less than genuine.  Mindsets...

We are all, after all, human.... which by definition makes it very difficult to evaluate how others think... we can only evaluate how they act.

some of the most jeolous women I've met are providers and strippers, and it's unfortunate. Some may come off as very independent and love what they do, but then you get to know them and they have a lot of problems and just want a man to make them happy. After all, providers and strippers are human too. My only worry is about my family finding out and my career. Other than that, I'm pretty honest but I have my insecurities about this business, too, because of so much negativity involved with civies and cut-throat & callous demeanors of some in this business. It's no lie.

So . . . we have to take people at face value and try to remember that this is "just" a fantasy for most people. Those that we do meet that are kind and not screwed up are wonderful people, but they're few and far inbetween.

Hugs,
ciara

-- Modified on 5/18/2008 9:32:43 PM