well you can't go on the senario bec i work at my friend's agency incall sometimes as well as on my own and when i'm at hers we have to have it in the first minute and I have great reviews so there
After getting burned one too many times, I've decided no matter what the provider or agency stipulates, I'm not paying upfront and certainly not within minutes of walking through the door.
Looking back now, I have noticed a distinct quality difference between providers who demand their donation upfront and those who are willing to wait.
There is a definite reason why some providers/agencies are so adamant you pay immediately. It's because they're TERRIBLE and they know it and they don't want *you* to know until it's too late.
And even if the provider is hot, from now on, if she's like: "You got something for me? I need it now" then I'm out of there, I don't care. She can look like a babe, but I can bet you the experience won't be good.
Case in point: Years ago, I had an Incall where this girl came to my place and she was actually cute (physically anyway). So I stupidly handed over the cash when she asked. But then as we got down to the nitty-gritty she became a TOTAL B*TCH, coming up with a zillion rules and restrictions, not at all the "GF-experience" she'd advertised. It was such a turn-off, that I changed my mind. But she already had my cash. Still, I thought since we didn't even do anything yet she'd be cool with returning at least a portion of my money. Nope. Instead, she ran out my door with the dough.
So from now on if I say I'm not gonna pay until after and she can't handle that and says the whole thing's off then I'll just be like: "Fine."
Better safe than sorry. Because I've been sorry way too many times.
PS -- My best times have ALWAYS been with providers who took donations AFTER. It's like a seal of quality. They don't have to try to cheat you, because they're actually GOOD
(and if no, then why would you even bother?)
Second: When a gal comes to your place, that is an outcall.
Second: When a gal comes to your place, that is an outcall.
Yes, sometimes it is YMMV game; but the type of "upsell" or "ripoff" you experienced can easily be avoided by checking the lady on TER or other review sites. No reviews = red flag you are TOFTT and on your own.
The benchmark isn't do they want their money up front or not. The benchmark is do you do any damn research before you show up or not. What you describe is your own damn fault.
Most providers don't demand anything...
You just leave the envelope in plain sight when you arrive, and all is good...
Hi Curly,
You've got that right! When I was still "wet behind the ears" in the hobby! I had so much fun w/ a lady, my head was still in the clouds!! I almost forgot to leave the envelope ! She, politely, asked me for the envelope! I was sooo embarrassed about the faux paus, but she understood my "greeness" & saw me, again!! Ever since then I drop the envelope on a desk, as soon as I walk in!! As you stated, " It's all good"
no pay upfront no play at all! lol Now I could see it if a lady knew the guy but just a first time meeting? Honestly you cant tell a lady HOW she will handle her business. It is really not up to you and I agree, if you research this should never be a problem
Good luck with that!
TL
True. Regular clients...I could not care less about paying upfront. They know the rate, they know the drill, and most will make it up to you if something is not right. I have had times where I was shorted by regulars, but that's how it goes.
did you even look at this guys reviews????
Now for the record, I always pay upfront and am in total disagreement with the OP, but Im just saying here, you all jump on the band wagon and say, "Well if you see reviewed ladies this wouldnt happen."
Look at his reveiw! He saw a lady with 9 reviews, mostly 9/9, nothing lower than an 8, and a 10 or two thrown in. Then he gave her a 4/2!
His other review was a for a lady who had 6 or so good reviews before he saw her. Looks to me like he is seeing ladies with good reviews.
Its not a matter of seeing only reviewed ladies. There are obviously other issues for this OP.
Just saying.
6 reviews is not 'WELL REVIEWED' lol. Most providers can get that in a damn week. I agree that it is not 100 percent that a well reviewed provider can't go bad, but this well reviewed provider is not sucking shit until she is paid, and my service is rated top notch! He is trying to suggest that providers who are paid upfront (about 90 percent of us) are somehow less quality than a dumb ass taking that payment after. I call bs, and the reviews confirm it.
I said I am in total disagreement with the OP. I ALWAYS pay upfront, and I think a girl that accepts payment at the end is kind of crazy. I am not arguing anything about paying upfront!!
The OP obviously has some weird issues going on.
My only point was to all the responders who said to see well reviewed ladies. The OP IS seeing reviewed ladies (at least according to his two reveiws here). To most hobbyists, a half dozen good reviews writtten by guys who have written other reviews IS well reviewed. Not every lady needs 8 pages of reviews to be considered well reviewed! How the fk do they get 8 pages of reveiws if they didnt get their first half dozen? And yes some girls can get 6 reviews in a week and some take months or years to get that. You know as well as anyone that not every lady is high volume, and high volume or not, not every guy who sees a lady is going to review her!
Another point: This guy is in SF, and TER is not big in SF. I would bet you that these ladies are reviewed on another site.
Quality over quantity, if you have never seen the client, then yea, payment should happen right away. If there a regular, payment should not be on anyone's mind... Trust, respect, and companionship needs to have some sensuality. Compensation takes that away, always!
Not only have I always paid up front and never had a problem, but I have several 'friends' where I have either paid a deposit up front days or weeks before we've met or have a running deposit outstanding and have never once had a problem.
Do just a small amount of homework and you'll have much better experiences.
it makes me uncomfortable when the envelope lies there on the table the whole time.
I'd much prefer her to take the donation ASAP.
That's another thing he missed. Paying AFTER is more risky, but that's another thread entirely. Accepting payment for what you JUST DID, and not for what "might or might not happen" certainly has its drawbacks legally.
I have had plenty of girls collect money at the end of the date, or at least discreetly sometime other than the first minute after walking in. Quality businesswomen who know they are dealing with quality clients don't need to be pushy about the cash. I agree with bubbleshorse that women who are pushy about the cash tend to offer the lowest quality services. My worst experiences have also all involved women who were pushy about payment upfront.
If you went in to a fancy restaurant and they demanded that you pay the bill before they brought the food, wouldn't you wonder why? If you hired a house painter and he demanded the entire payment before he started the work, wouldn't you wonder why? Wouldn't you tend to wonder whether their services were going to be worth it? Wouldn't you have a right to cancel the services?
London: I normally think you're on the ball, but you're wrong on this one. If you want to be treated like an upscale business, act like one. Be fine dining, not McDonald's
I have never HAD TO DEMAND shit, because the guys I see are not retards! They drop the envelope most times without me even touching it, so please go preach to someone else about service. My reviews and lack of having to beg for business both speak for themselves. You will note that not ONCE did a guy say, "And, she asked for the donation." As if. Pushy is having your hand out, or counting the crap in front of the poor guy...I do neither, and yes I have been shorted because of that a few times.
Please do not insult my intelligence by trying your Apples and Oranges comparison of escorting ILLEGALLY to buying a damn meal in a restaurant. A restaurant has the advantage of being able to CALL THE COPS if you short them, or don't pay at all...we don't, so such a silly comparison. 90 percent of providers (Top Rated) ALL have the very same thing on their Etiquette Page: "Please place my donation in the bathroom, table, or wherever within arriving, so I do not HAVE TO ask for it." Guys with brains and common courtesy, simply do it.
FYI, several professionals do get paid upfront...my Attorney certainly does, and I have booked tables in many high end eateries that require a 100 dollar deposit via credit card, just to let you in. Being "pushy" about the money is one thing, but being STUPID is another. We are discussing the latter. I've never had to 'ask' a guy for my donation, because I don't see men who are clueless. I highly doubt a guy wants to piss me off before his c*ck goes in my mouth lol.
What you and bubblebrain are missing, is the 'tone' you set for that date by being so entitled. Do you honestly think a provider is going to be able to relax enough to give you 100 percent if the only thought on her mind is "Is he going to short me or rip me off?" That is why "quality" and "smart" providers are paid upfront, dear. Please don't try and convince me that the TOP RATED providers on this site are getting paid after, because I will call bullshit. They charge thousands of dollars per date, and I highly doubt they are going to risk being ripped off that much money.
If you don't want to "see" providers who OMG, expect to be compensated for an ILLEGAL act where she can't collect should you rip her off, by all means don't see them. I say that's eliminating 90 percent of providers.
-- Modified on 3/27/2013 6:00:27 PM
He said 'Never pay upfront'. You said, in response, that he was "batshit crazy". I interpreted your statement to mean that you disagreed with his advice. If that wasn't your point, then what was?
I still think he has a right to cancel service at any point before the session begins, based on anything he thinks is reasonable. We all agree that reasonable reasons for cancellation include a) the provider is not being the person in the ad, b) the provider is substantially older or fatter than the person in the ad, c) the provider is totally drunk high smelly or whatever else, d) the provider upsells asks for more money than advertised, e) the provider acts suspicious, perhaps like a cop, f) etc etc etc.
For the OP, reasons for cancellation include demanding the money up front. He explained why he thought this policy was reasonable. And he wanted to share what he thought was good advice with others. I think that's a nice thing.
I was surprised at the harsh criticism the OP received. I was surprised that other guys were such pussies that they don't even think about whether they are being treated as reasonable clients by professionals. And I was surprised that you defended a practice that in most services is considered very cheap and unprofessional.
I did not say his leaving was all that crazy, but how many times can he do that before providers blacklist his ass for being a time wasting, asshole? He did not just say "pushy" providers...he said anyone who wants to even see that envelope drop, meaning she does not have to count it...he simply will NOT give it until after he nuts. THAT my friend is cheap, crazy, and will not be tolerated. You saying that practice is accurate, is basically saying any provider (90 percent of us) are unprofessional and not offering great service?
Again, check the reviews, check the Top 100, and come back and tell me that. It's bullshit! Providers dumb enough to trust a first time client they don't know from Adam to pay them AFTER, are not all that bright. If a provider literally has to ASK for the donation, that's because the guy was too clueless to do what was expected. I would never ask..I would just start playing on TER lol.
You've obviously NOT read my reviews, or you would know how asinine it is to compare the service I provide to Mc.Donalds, and ONLY because there is a phrase on my site that says "Please leave the donation" lol. I even have a damn driver service for my clients, cook 4 course meals at no charge to them, and provide three private incall locations. Yep...that's fast food alright. Must be why I can only charge 100 bucks.
Ok, I guess all those providers rated higher than me, are also bad business women, because they too are not going to spend 4 hours with some guy that could rip them off? That is what he said, flat out! No mistakes, no need for a decoder ring, he flat out typed that shit! THAT is my issue with his post, and yours.
If you thought I was advocating for a woman with her hand out DEMANDING her donation, no...I was certainly NOT. I am only saying the envelope needs to be set down somewhere, and that if a provider is put in the position to have to ask for it, that guy can take a hike. I would never ask...he can see his way out whilst I continue to fk with you guys on TER bwahahaha. Makes no difference to me.
-- Modified on 3/27/2013 6:51:33 PM
London, dearie, settle down. I was not criticizing your service. I said you were wrong for saying he was crazy. I still think you're wrong. But we don't totally disagree...
I agree with you that most providers (in the U.S.) expect cash up front or near the start of the appointment.
I also agree with you that he deserves to be blacklisted if he keeps walking away from appointments.
See, the problem here is a misunderstanding. The OP has had bad experiences with women who demand money up front. So he is wary. But most providers look for the money up front, because it is common practice and they have a fear of being cheated. So we have a potential conflict, which will be resolved one of two ways:
1) She asks for the money, it offends him, and he leaves. She is angry. He is angry.
2) She bites her lip, acts professional, trusts him, and business proceeds.
Now, perhaps you think that it is the OP's responsibility to resolve this conflict by paying upfront, just because that is the way business is often handled. But remember it is a fantasy. Ruining the fantasy is sort of like characters at the start of a movie turning to the camera and saying 'You know this isn't real, dumbass; you are watching flat pictures on a screen.' That's no fun.
Of course, some clients like the whole hooker thing. Personally, I get off on buying some chick. It's the power thing. I love the idea of showering her with money and then watching her suck my dick like the desperate whore she is.
So... after that last paragraph, what sort of client would you rather have, London? The OP who wants to wait to pay? Or someone like me, who will gladly pay up front
FYI, I've never had to ask a single guy on TER for the donation....they are trained quite well. Hell, even Mr. Asshole himself laid down that envelope whilst he had me bound and gagged lol. It's not the "reason" it's the delivery. He refuses to pay upfront, no negotiation. Good for him, but he is not going to have much luck getting anyone to see him. Only someone either desperate or stupid is going to trust every guy to pay for a service, she cannot collect on, should he rip her off. What's she going to do...call the cops? That will go over well. Blacklist him? Big fkin deal...she probably did not get his real name anyway. Post an alert in the Powder Room? Big whoop. So, she can warn other women about him, but she just fked his sorry ass for free for god knows how long.
What you fail to realize is not all men are honest, or admirable. In most every scenario where a guy INSISTS on paying after, he has an agenda, and that agenda is to blackmail someone to do MORE than she agreed to, or to give her a bad review. If his motives were only to make sure he got what he paid for, why not just drop the donation somewhere and not tell her where it is? Or, how about doing the proper research instead of only seeing providers from backpage? The ONE reputable provider he saw, was trashed. Why do you think that is? Bet she refused to fk him without the money and rightfully so! She works for a damn agency and guess what...she still has to pay them whether he pays her or not! They are not even allowed to start working until they check the donation and make that "Checking In" call to the agency, yet he blames the PROVIDER for that? See a fkin indy!
-- Modified on 3/27/2013 6:39:45 PM
I don't disagree with you, London. But I still think what we have here is a misunderstanding. I didn't see the OP's message being as dishonest as you make it out to be. He said that he has had bad experiences with providers that demanded the cash up front, and to protect himself from more bad experiences he thought it would be a good idea to bail when providers do that. I assume that he has been with providers who are more subtle about asking for payment, and if he is smart he will stick with them rather than risk more misunderstandings.
Meanwhile, I don't blame you (or any woman) for being suspicious of certain guys. There are bad clients out there. Just like the bad provider that the OP was complaining about. How do we spot them? How do we protect ourselves against them? The OP shared what he thought.
Good for him; that's what these boards are for.
And yes, London, you are smokin' hot. That's what you wanted to hear from me, right?
I don't use an envelope...and you should have remembered that bitch LOL
FWIW I agree with B_I_B and A_New_Invention on this thread as well. I didn't drop a fucking nickel upon entering a room...be it with you or any other hookers I play with.
I like to see how the atmosphere is...that a hooker isn't compromised (as in drunk or doped up). I will usually put the cash (NO FUCKING ENVELOPES) out after we've chatted somewhat...remember?
If any hooker asks me for a nickel upon entering a room...I will turn around immediately. And for the reasons the OP has expressed.
But I also am VERY picky on who I will see. And I do my homework extensively to make sure that if I'm going to drop a decent amount of coin I expect she will act as honorably as the prior reviews suggested. Thus far it hasn't been an issue...and I doubt going forward that it will as well.
But as you and I have conversed...not all the boys and girls play on the up and up. Most...but not all.
Would I ask you or any other guy that I know from the boards for the donation? Fk no, but a newbie, knows to put that shit down. Had you decided to walk out on me, no problemo. That's not the point. He is saying he won't pay until AFTER HE ACTUALLY CUMS! That's fked up, and would never happen. Do you recall the last guy who demanded he pay after? His name starts with an "S" and he is blacklisted all over the place. And, no I do not recall if you had cash or just an envelope, so that should tell you how "worried" I am about it, with certain guys.
-- Modified on 3/27/2013 8:36:33 PM
We're not disagreeing in totality.
But I know what the dude is bitching about...heard and read too many stories of that nonsense.
I do my homework...the gals do their homeword...and we all have a good time.
I've never cheated anyone out of anything in this life. And don't plan on starting now. I expect the same courtesy.
And I never ever for one second had any doubts about you. EVER 
I read your reviews and what you have posted here and think to myself, "I feel sorry for the women who have slept with you."
You have a basic lack of respect for women and you give me the creeps.
the donation on her dresser after the action, while dressing. But most often that works with kind ladies I've seen on previous occasions.
I know many ladies have been ripped off, scammed & stolen from by scum bags.
We both know why we're here! Quite frankly, I consider it to be a binding contract even though it's unspoken. I expect her to fulfill her offer, I am going to fulfill mine (to make the agreed upon donation). But I can not blame a lady, on our first meeting, to want to be sure I'm not playing her, scamming her or anything else not in our agreement... by securing the donation at the beginning of our meeting. I'd rather not break the illusion to talk business but I can if I must.
I can & will do proper research to assure a well reviewed provider... at least 10 reviews & some by experienced reviewers with more than 10 reviews themselves. When building a bucket list, VIP IS needed IMHO. It costs less than a spoiled date! Those times when my newbie self did not follow this, I TOFTT and had my share of less than stellar experiences.
Mr BH, I believe your research is faulty. Had you better researched your potential partners, I feel you would not have had such disappointments. Walking out is hardly a solution, and you'll quickly get a reputation as a time waster. Sure there are SCAMS out there. I've posted a list of them on the Newbie board several times. But your approach is no solution
What would you prefer? A hooker wondering the whole time she is going down on you if you are going to pay, or one that knows she has already been paid?
I want that happy hooker that already knows her money is there, with her full concentration on licking my balls and trying to DT. There is no way I want the woman worried and giving a half assed performance because she can't focus.
MM
I remember a time when a hobbyist would have support from his fellow man while another had to endure bad experiences. Now it's primarily an estrogen laden gum chomping hooker board.
What do some of you guys do? Eat fucking tampons? I swear that some of you "guys" sound more like girls or you are on a leash and collar.
bubbleshorse. Get rid of that handle. You are allowed to replace it. I had to smirk when I saw it.
Sorry for the bad experiences, but expecting to always pay at the end is not going to work out too well in most cases. Almost every provider is going to want the envelope placed somewhere upon arrival. It's a two way street, and providers are also subject to being ripped off. Besides, you don't want her to keep wondering if she is going to get paid while she is giving you a BBBJ. So this may be something that you have to live with. I will say though that early on, I mean before I even knew what I was doing, I did pay at the end, and no questions were asked. In fact, I was so new I didn't even have an envelope one time. I handed it to her.
It sounds like a run of bad luck. Keep at it and make some smart choices. Choose quality over quantity. Carefully read the reviews and review the reviewers to assess their trustworthiness.
What if YOU walk in, get down to the "nitty-gritty" and then leave without supplying my donation?I'm out more than you are out.
The fact is, no REPUTABLE or experienced provider will accept a donation after the fact. I may do this with clients who are regulars, but I know them. You need to do research on the girls you wish to see otherwise you will get ripped off. Read their reviews, check out their history, and if you can't find anything move on. Also get verified on local boards and sites such as ter and p411 so you can find the quality ladies who will deliver what you say.
FYI: If you walked in my incall, and said you weren't paying until the end, I'd boot you out faster than a bad habit!
After reading this entire post I believe my responcability is to set an example of trust with the the woman (provider) I am dealing with. After all because I only deal with providers that are well reviewed I know what to expect from our encounter & if she chose not to provide as her previous reviews show I would certinly reflect that in my review of her. DO DROP THE ENVLOPE
well you can't go on the senario bec i work at my friend's agency incall sometimes as well as on my own and when i'm at hers we have to have it in the first minute and I have great reviews so there