escorts vs police
Posted by tomthumb52, 9/11/2020 6:20:50 PM
Upshot is, I am now charged with soliciting a prostitute. We both stuck to the story of I hired for her time and what we did with our time is our business.
I am set for jury trail in a week or so (even though this is a misdemeanor it could affect my green card for moral turpitude??). The City DA will not plead down my case! My attorney thinks we have a good chance. Any ideas or suggestions or advise would be welcome.
Does anyone here have any advice / suggestions of what you should do if police come banging on your hotel room door? What should you do? I was a little peeved that the girl almost froze, ran into the bathroom and did not even get dressed even though I was slow to open the door. In hindsight, I should have taken charge and given her instructions. What would those instructions have been?
If the DA insists on a jury trial it means he wants a show trial and to use your conviction to bolster his re-election. If I'm right, you should ask for postponements to get you past the election, then hope he'll plea bargain.
Beyond that, if your lawyer is at least competent he's exploring with you the exact circumstances of the bust to see if any procedures were violated. If so, you're off the hook. You also need to have your lawyer explore what probable cause the cops had to knock on your door to begin with.
And what exactly did you admit to? Sounds like you admitted to "time and companionship but not sex." Sorry, that's a non-starter. You've violated the most basic rule: don't admit anything, don't say anything, even a denial. The only thing you should have said is, "I want to call a lawyer." Then STFU. Sorry you didn't do that.
Did the cops see any transaction take place? If not they had nothing. Until you admitted you paid her for time and companionship.
Don't do that again.
Sorry this happened to you.
The cops needed a warrant to enter your room.
If they didn't have one, that should be the end of the case.
If they did, then I think you might be toast unless you have a very good lawyer, of which I am not, still.
I'm not sure but, even if they had no warrant, are they forbidden from knocking on his door and asking to be admitted? If they are, then it's on him for letting them in.
If I'd been in his shoes I'd have played dumb and stalled, while getting dressed and telling the girl to take her clothes into the bathroom and get dressed. If we were both dressed when the cops entered, where's the evidence of a crime? An unmade bed?
That way they can get the hotel's permission to enter the room. The gal doesn't own the room she rents it. It's the property of whoever owns the hotel and at that in NC the manager on duty can and in 99(ish)% will cooperate with LE.
So yes, opening the door voluntarily was a mistake as well as saying anything to the cops. Assignation for the purpose of solicitation prostitution is a thing. As well is assignation for the purpose of prostitution is a thing. In both cases you don't have to be caught in the act. It sucks for both people.
I hope this guy has a great criminal attorney and his record is clean of any other charges.
Steph XO
A couple of questions:
Was the lady arrested?
Was she charged?
Has she pleaded out?
If so, did she agree to testify against you in exchange for a reduced charge and/or sentence?
What was the hotel chain?
Are there cameras in the hallways?
Did they take your phones?
Was it an agency?
Those are 4 very important questions.
They don't need a warrant if hotel management complained and provided some sort of evidence (even if only based on observations).
A lot of attorneys won't try to settle until it is closer to the date of the trial or there has been some sort of discovery. Trials require a lot of work, which nobody likes.
-- Modified on 10/14/2020 8:02:33 PM
If you have not posted over on the legal board you might consider that. However, you're likely going to get the best advise from your own lawyer.
In the future, and for others reading, as has been said the first think you probably want to do in that case is NOT open the door. You can ask who they are of just ignore it until the hotel management opens the door for them. The other point about not admitting anything to the police is sound. I've heard that even talking with them is a risk -- they all have training on how to ask questions that put the person asked at risk. They are NOT acting as your friend.
And if you're going to open the door get dressed! LOL
Hope it works out for the guy.
Prostitution solicitation is a class 3 misdemeanor in CO
I think guy has great chance if you had no priors.
Colorado is prrtty lenient when it comes to such offenses imo.
He should listen to what his lawyer says.
A jury trial for class 3 misdemeanor seems excessive.
...knock on the door to begin with, let alone barge in when you opened the door? Even if the woman was the most famous hooker in Denver, that doesn't give the cops probable cause to think a crime was being committed. You could have been her husband or BF for all they knew.
You don't have the same expectation of privacy in a hotel room that you do in your own home. But even if hotel management recognized her, she was BCD with you and not creating a public nuisance. Unless you were swinging from the chandelier and making a lot of noise, there was no reason for the cops to knock on your door.
And where is the "solicitation?" The cops did not see the exchange of money for sex. She was not an undercover cop and I highly doubt that the room had a hidden camera.
You said "City D.A." Cities have City Attorneys, counties have District Attorneys. The distinction is important because a city attorney may be prosecuting you under a local city ordinance while the D.A. may prosecute you for solicitation of prosecution under 18-7-202 c.rs. This crime is listed in Article 7 of Title 18 with other offenses related to "morals." As qwerty said, it is a Class 3 misdemeanor which is a step above jaywalking but conviction under this code section could be problematic for your immigration status.
If this was a bigger crime, your attorney would have made a separate Motion to Dismiss based on lack of probable cause and there would have been a hearing on the motion before the trial date. But he'll probably make the same motion on the day of the trial before the trial begins.
City attorneys don't want to have jury trials on Class 3 misdemeanors. When push comes to shove, they'll offer a deal at trial.
You said "City D.A." Cities have City Attorneys, counties have District Attorneys. The distinction is important because a city attorney may be prosecuting you under a local city ordinance while the D.A. may prosecute you for solicitation of prosecution under 18-7-202 c.rs. This crime is listed in Article 7 of Title 18 with other offenses related to "morals." As qwerty said, it is a Class 3 misdemeanor which is a step above jaywalking but conviction under this code section could be problematic for your immigration status....
City attorneys don't want to have jury trials on Class 3 misdemeanors. When push comes to shove, they'll offer a deal at trial.
The trouble when there is more than one person involved in something, they just have to get one to cooperate to sink the other. So there is incentive to rat out the other guy before he rats you out.
Thanks guys for all your advise. Just to answer a couple of questions; the police were supposedly at the hotel doing a sting operation on another case when they noticed the girl arrive in the car park. They followed up to the room and banged on the door 20 minutes later. I was dressed when I opened the door after trying to ignore.
I took a plea to disturbing the peace and did a Johns Class. I have marked down in my calendar when to seal the case!
The biggest thing was not knowing what to do and unfortunately the girl panicked also. Hopefully there will not be a next time but I think the best way would be to have a checklist in my head of what you need to do. From the comments above I would suggest this:
1. DONT PANIC. Calm the other party down and ask them to get dressed quickly.
2. Remove anything you do not want found (i.e. condom).
3. Establish with the other party that you made clear in the beginning that you paid them for their time only.
4. Not sure if this would work but ask for the money back so that there is no link to being paid?
5. Don't talk to the police. I am not sure if I could do this unless in my home town as they threaten to take you down to the station. Can someone advise on this?
Any other suggestions? And I hope this discussion helps others.
But I don't think everything in your check list is right.
1. Is very true.
2. Where would you put things you'd removed if the cops are coming in?
3. Waste of time, as I said above.
4. Put out your hand and you'll draw back a stump.
5. YES. And let them threaten all you want. DON'T TALK. Let them take you to the station. They'll have to charge you or let you go. All you say is "I want to call a lawyer."
When you panic and try to start explaining it away, you can't very well change your story without them using your original statement to impeach you at trial. If you were dressed, they would have a hell of a time making a case without the girl flipping on you. Are you certain she was not in on the sting and just feigned that she wasn't? A lot of jurisdictions will bust a working girl and then won't charge her if she turns informant for a period of time. If she shows up at the trial and testifies against you, all is lost. Your attorney should take her deposition under oath and move for a turn over of all records they have on the girl from your case or any other before the trial date. If they withhold documents from a subpoena, they cannot introduce them at trial. If they turn them over, and she is in on the bust, you will have to cut a plea bargain or get the book thrown at you. Low lever criminal attorneys do not always do the pre-trial discovery and investigation that they should. You DON'T want to be surprised on the day or the trial. They do not have to automatically disclose her existence as a witness if they plan to introduce her ONLY for purposes of rebuttal of your testimony. I might be an ambush. Make sure your attorney has done his homework.
At 20 minutes in, wouldnt you be balls deep by then? Or at least well inside the festivities...
If she was in on it, wouldn't that be entrapment? Assuming she actually partook of the act. Wouldnt a sting come to its conclusion once money exchanged hands? Or once it exchanged hands and the subject of sex came up....something like that.
Sorry....no experience in getting busted, and intend on keeping it like that!
when he opened the door, so they had not started yet. I based my post on that.
there was a condom on the floor.....but not filled. Just used. Another 2 minutes it might have been.....,
I would take out any mention of pay for ANYTHING. Just have the money in someone's wallet or purse.
The other thing I might do is just say, "We are on our way to get some X" X is coffee, lunch, dinner, a drink whatever might be most appropriate for the time. Then leave and go DO that. You can argue about the money while driving. Going and doing that covers the whole "lying to a law officer" problem.
Other than that don't answer anything they ask. If the want to push it tell them you need to talk with your lawyer so if they have any questions they should take you in and you will call for legal counsel.
Disagree with number 3. I dont know what the fuck youre talking about officer. I never gave this chick any money. Anything she has, she had when she came here.
If found in a situation where its evident you were having sex....
We just hooked up. Once again...I never gave her any money period.
If they didn't see it, it didn't happen. That time and companionship bullshit doesn't work...as soon as you admit you gave her money, it's automatically gonna be viewed as you were paying for sex.
Deny it to your wife, NOT the cops. Don't say ANYTHING to the cops except "I want a lawyer." No matter whaat they say.
NEVER admit to ANYTHING is very good advice, but "denying" something that the girl might contradict could add yet another charge to your problems. Lying to a cop brings it's own new set of problems, even if you are found innocent of everything else an "obstruction" charge could be more damaging than the original charge of solicitation. The proper response has been given several times in this thread. Either "Am I being detained?" "Am I under arrest?" or even "Are you accusing me of a crime" are all acceptable things to say to the cops, anything else is likely to sink you.
This is why using your right to "STFU" is so vital in these circumstances. Once you make a statement of ANY kind, you and your attorney are stuck with that statement, so unless you are VERY experienced in these matters virtually anything you say is going to make things worse not better.
BTW, the guy in question made so many mistakes I don't even know where to start, everything from opening the door in the first place, to actually admitting he paid the girl he has dug his hole so deep that even the best lawyer might not be able to get him out of it.
Don't be Ron White "I had the right to remain silent, but unfortunately not the ability" lol
I disagree with number 3....
Never admit to giving money....not when they didn't see it exchange hands.
I would never admit to money exchanging hands...period.
Thats assuming you weren't caught up in a UC sting....then you're pretty much fucked.
Sorry for the multiples....something glitched. It wouldn't post, and now its posted all 3 of the posts I retyped...
1. You were charged with soliciting a prostitute.
Q: How did the police find out you were soliciting a prostitute? Was your room bugged or hidden video? Was the young lady working with LE? Did you just spill the beans when you saw the cops? They need evidence that a crime was committed. I don't see how that happened.
2. My attorney thinks we have a good chance.
Q: Your attorney should know exactly what you are charged with and the evidence the cops have against you. It's called Pretrial Motions for Discovery. So, that is the first place to start. What evidence do they have.
3. I am set for jury trial in a week.
Q: For soliciting?? Really? Well, maybe you really pissed someone off, but this will cost the court system a ton of money for something that will probably just be a fine. Well, I really don't know that, but this seems excessive.
4. I had the pleasure of meeting with an escort in Denver.
I assume you TOFFT with this young lady and didn't have any dealing with her prior to this encounter. We all do that sometimes.
Anyway, good luck with that
But I think most of you failed to clarify the correct actions to take. Here's my list:
1. DO NOT TALK TO THE COPS.
2. DO NOT TALK TO THE COPS.
3. DO NOT TALK TO THE COPS.
4. DO NOT TALK TO THE COPS.
5. Tell them you want to call your lawyer. Then SHUT UP!
6. If they keep asking you questions (and they will. They are trained to be GOOD at this), repeat step 5 until you get your phone call in private.
In addition, and while you have time:
A. Don't answer the door knocks.
B. Don't open the door.
C. Yes, both of you get dressed, because
D. Eventually, the cops will have the hotel staff open the door.
E. Tell HER to follow steps 1 to 6 with no variation.
Why? Every word you say WILL be used against you. EVERY WORD. It doesn't matter what. You could say "How about them Rockies" and they will use that later to show you are a liar. Cops who interrogate suspects have years of training on how to get what they want. You have ZERO training. It's like asking a Padawan Youngling to fuck Darth Vader in the ass.
Finally, don't bother trying to find an angle that will let you finagle or slip away on some technicality or clever explanation. These are cops. They do not need probable cause, evidence, or an eye witness to ARREST you. Those things will be important with the prosecutors. But if a cop wants to take you to jail, you're gonna get cuffed and shoved into a squad car for an overnight booking. Cops and prosecutors WANT to arrest and convict you. They are NEVER going to be "on your side" or "willing to look the other way" or "give you a break." That is not their job. They get paid to do that.
So let's recap:
1. Do not talk to cops - ever.
2. Ask for your lawyer. Then STFU.
3. It's a good idea to actually HAVE a lawyer to call in advance. Find one through your local legal referral service. Call them and introduce your self. If you have the cash, pay for a 30 minute consultation and tell them you want to have an attorney to contact just in case. Do not tell them you plan on committing a crime. Think legal insurance. Keep the lawyers card in your wallet, you suitcase and on you phone. Get a 24x7 message number if available. Then pray you never need to call...
Life is good.
The Cat
Questions and Observations:
1) This story doesn't sound right at all. Did you rent the room and you ordered take-out? Were you put in handcuffs? Was she put in handcuffs?
2) Did she look underage? Was she a minority? Hispanic or Asian?
3) All you should say is First, "Am I being detained". In this case, the answer will be yes, and they will give you the charges. Second, they should read you your rights if you are being arrested. Third; You will say, "I will cooperate, but I would like representation, I want my lawyer present before answering any questions". PERIOD.
4) the police are experts at getting information out of you. What may seem like idle chit chat, is getting information out of you. Remember, "You have the right to remain silent. Anything you say can and will be used against you in a court of law. You have the right to an attorney. If you cannot afford an attorney, one will be provided for you." Bargaining or explaining to the police means nothing. They are not the court, they are there to gather as much evidence as possible to convict you of a crime. Negotiating or giving them any information gets you NOTHING. It is counterintuitive in some sense.
5) Hopefully your attorney is a hired attorney and not court-appointed.
Again, this story is missing details as cops wouldn't bust down the door of a girl walking to her hotel room. How would they know you were in the room? How would they know you weren't having an affair and this was just some afternoon delight. Is this hotel known for prostitution?
No question in my mind that the cops knew the girl. Either they had arrested her before, or had an issue with her before. Cops don’t just bang on doors on a hunch. Pretty good bet either she didn’t get charged or she was charged and agreed to testify against him. Just my $0.02.
He’s facing a jury trial (yeah right) in days, and Yet he’s here posting for advice on “what would those instructions have been” and all the other hindsight
Sorry, I’m calling bullshit
GTFO
We were both nekkid and about to hit the high point when there was a knock on the door. I quietly went to the door and took a look thru the peep hole. Sure enough it was Uncle Leo x 2.
I did not answer the door and we both quickly and quietly got dressed despite the knocking continuing for several minutes.
Once dressed and after about 10 minutes, we left the room together with the planned story that we were headed out for dinner. We actually went for a short drive before I returned and dropped her off at the hotel.
Never used that agency again lol
I'd like to know how they targeted her. Was she a known and proven escort with an arrest record? Certainly there are single women walking into hotels all the time, wearing all sorts of outfits - she could be going to or from work, a dinner, a wedding, etc.
I'm curious to know how they got to this point. And what hotel/chain it was.
The OP posted in a follow up that LE happened to be there for a sting operation at the establishment and saw her pull into the parking lot. Either one of the vice officers recognized her, or they ran her plates and tracked down her identification.