Providing is, or at least should be, a very honest profession. For x dollars, you get y services. Not a thing wrong with that.

Your planned manipulations in order to "trick" your boyfriend into marriage are far from honest. Nowhere in your post do you say you love him, respect him, etc. It's all about you and your biological clock.

I could give two shits whether or not you fuck other guys for a living, I have had LTR's with several providers, but with only one exception (gold digging whore) none of them were built on deception and dishonesty.

It's not your profession that reviles me. It's your dishonesty and selfishness that makes me feel sorry for this guy and makes me look at you with disdain.

Providers deserve to be happy as much as anyone else. I wish I could say the same about liars and cheaters, not too mention women who are trying to "trap" a man.

and just an FYI, I am not married, am not cheating on anyone, make considerably more than $500k a year and yes I might consider throwing the money away for the right woman, but my life choices have made that a moot point. I don't have to make that choice, but apparently you do, not because you are a prostitute, but because you have been lying to your "intended".

If you are looking for advice on how to tell even bigger lies to get this guy to marry you, don't look to me. I wouldn't lift a finger to help you. Quite the contrary, I would tell this guy to run, not walk, away from you as fast as his legs could carry him.

As you can tell, there is nothing ambivalent or ambigious about my feelings on the subject.

Can't you post something obnoxious so I can say GaGa is an ass? )))


Any provider has to face same dilemma.  Don't date until good and ready to retire.  Date and lie about chosen job or admit that you are in profession less then accepted by society and chance someone who COULD be the one to turn around and leave.

One of the hardest things about this profession in my opinion is need for constant lies.  Unless lady is out and about and lucky to have very understanding family and friends, she has to lie to those she loves on daily basis.

Starting relationship from lies ads another person to that list. I am not sure I could ever do it so my decision when I started this chapter of my life was to put personal relationships on hold. I had to think about it and make very personal decision.

It may be possible that people can meet via this hobby.  Both individuals then have to be strong and honest about everything and have well defined plan.  Of course, I am not referring to those "i fallen for provider and I can't get up" married men who have neither ability nor desire to build future with Provider Du Jour of Their Dreams.  

Lina

and cant afford to retire from escorting to start another business or career, is not making 500K/y

Re: Oh I do get lonely! I am only human

What helps is to have close relationship with family, friends who are not in the business and either hobby or another career that occupies your time.

When I get absolutely brain freeze lonely/bored I go to Ashley Madison and have fun at expense of those cheating guys too cheap to hire escorts.

Lina

You don't normally have long to wait. lol

but every once in a while I "try" to be serious.

All relationships come with challenges, but "love and the hobby" come with a set all their own. I don't believe a real marriage can be built on a foundation of lies, and worrying about giving up her lucrative career as an escort before the subject has even been brought up by him speaks volumes as to where this lady's head is at.

Your point about these "I've fallen for a provider" married guys are just the flip side of the same coin. I am an equal opportunity asshole. I have no more respect for those guys than I do for what our ambivalent friend is contemplating. Yes, these guys may truly believe they are in love, but the truth is, they are usually too selfish an individual to ever really be in love with another person. When all you can think about is me, me, me in a relationship, it's not love IMO.

I don't really give a fuck what you do with your life. I, like most here, are just making conversation. You are the one the threw the question out there.

Personally, I am quite shallow where it comes to sex. I can only fuck women that I am genuinely attracted to. I couldn't fuck a fugly for any amount of money. Maybe you are attracted to every guy you have sex with, and if so then good for you, but you are in a distinct minority if true. I could never be a prostitute, the very thought of having to fuck old fat broads repulses me, and I am not so delusional to think that hotties are going to be throwing money and themselves at me, certainly not at age fifty. lol

What cracks me up about A_P ( not to be confused with the supermarket chain ) is she doesn't realize that she brings this derision on herself.

First she "avoids" personal responsibilty by blaming her woes on an "unstable divorced parent"-----oh, woe is me---like others don't put that sort of thing behind them & go on to successful careers. What a crock !

Then, her hiding her providing & trying to manipulate a man into marriage ! A_P, did you expect ringing endorsements from the board about this ?

AS for John Galt ( & GaG for that matter ) they simply take an assertive approach to hobbying( as do I ) so they won't be taken advantage of by
unscrupulous providers like you; I am eagerly awiting BS accusations from you that we're all misogynists---lMAO ! Btw, if providers take an equally assertive approach to fend off unscrupulous hobbyists, I'm all for that !

Lastly, your attacks against John Galt( good guy,btw ) puzzle me----------I didn't see him rebuke you in your previous thread. Am I missing something here ?

but it will be LP's problem, not mine. I am headed out for the evening. Hey, even mods are entitled to lives too. lol

-- Modified on 12/14/2010 4:25:23 PM

Shit------I don't know you from Adam---are you stalking me or merely being a pain in the ass ?----------

Re: Oh I do get lonely! I am only human

Great reply! This business is a choice or should be. Having a supportive family and other outlets will keep you from being lonely and if you happen to fall for someone that you met under these circumstances, know that the path is not easy, even when all the stars are aligned. Guys are simple. Feed them, give them pussy, and act like you care and you've got it licked (pun intended). The Ambivalent one is missing a basic tenet of any relationship: honesty. She's probably got a few honest bones left, but I am betting this business based on some of her responses is eating at her core. If she is not careful, she'll die lonely, broke, and broken hearted.

but THIS post wasn't made by a lying, cheating husband.

If you can find a post where I endorsed husbands lying and cheating, please show it to me.

If a lying, cheating guy asks for advice from me, he will damn sure get it.


Of course none of this has anything to do with this thread, and you know it. She put something out on a public board and I gave her a straight answer, you don't seem to have any problem with my answer or my opinion. It seems you just don't think I should be the one to give it to her, fortunately that's not your decision to make.

Everyone here knew this was going to be a train wreck the moment she made her post. It's no longer "my" train wreck though. I have a date, so I am out of here. I hope you all have fun, and please keep the bloodshed to a minimum. lol

Hear this: If you are successful in getting married to this guy under the veil of secrecy you've been living and earning a living and he finds out, well, he'll have all the grounds he needs for divorce and almost no judge will disagree with him. Added to that, he'll NEVER trust you. For me, without trust, you don't have a relationship. If you can't be honest now, you'll never be and if you think none the wiser, don't fool yourself. This life has a way of bringing things back to us full circle. Sometimes that can be good, sometimes, it happens at the worst and most inopportune times and we're devastated. Earlier in this thread, you chided "idiot" hobbyists for falling in love with providers. What makes you any different? You only know what he tells you and wants you to see. He may be a cross dressing gay male loving anal freak. So, are you really any better off? No, I don't think so. Love, at its best and worst, is a slippery slope. If your biological clock is ticking and you really want this "normal" life with kids, white picket fence, and the love of your life, you had better bounce. Time is a wasting. The longer you stay, the less likely you'll get any of what you say you want and if you do, really get it, will you appreciate it? Your core is already impacted if I read your words correctly. You hate what you do, but the hours and money are great if you're any good at it, you rationalize.  I won't feel sorry for you because in the end, you're probably not all that.

-- Modified on 12/14/2010 5:30:42 PM

A huge majority of the men that do P4P are married and lead a double life that their SO knows nothing about. This is a secret life. Sure in perfect world there is no deception, no jealousy, and no one gets hurt.

Then there's reality. Most of us here have two seperate lives. My advice to the lady if she really wants to marry this guy and he doesn't know, is to walk away from providing and never look back. Leave it in the past and move forward. She's already been living a secret life while dating him so he'll be devastated if she discloses it to him now. We all have secrets, some bigger than others.

I wouldn't advise moving forward with her BF under these secret conditions though. Most civvies can't wrap their heads around this life.

xoxo,

Steph

I know, it happens too fast and before you know it, you are in too deep.
I started out just dating, just passing time and having fun. I honestlt Never thought I would fall for him. So NO! No I did not tell him my lil secret and then I was in too deep to do so.
We had passed that point of full disclosure and I was trapped with my lies and deceptions.
I carried on this shell game for just about 3 yrs. He felt something wasn't right but he didn't kow what. Couldn't put his finger on it. But really...in normal society most are not exposed to this world, and wouldn't think that. Plus I realized, through it all I became a fantastic liar, which is so against my charecter. It was maddening at times. One lie on top of another. Watching my back all the time worried about where I said I was and so on.
Its crazy making really.
Well when the shit finally hit the fan and we had split it still took him a while to figure out who I was, with the help from a few of his cheating friends he figured it out.
He made my life hell after that for 4 months til my lawyer finally contacted him and he was threatened with legal action.
I can say it was insane and honestly, in no way fair of me. I never gave him a choice to be involved in this life style or not, I just dragged him along. I will never do that again.
For me at least its back to NOT dating anyone. I can't do it! I am not capable of that crazy shit anymor or hurting someone else like that ever again.
I was so selfish and it was not who I am.

Now too many here who cheat themselves on their So and GFs have brass balls thinkingits ok to point the fnger and chastise her.
we all make choices in coming here and no one else walks in your shoes, pays your bills or is held accountable for your actions so I suggest you think through all of the choices and all that can go wrong, and what is best for you.
I know for me, I am all done with this. I will NEVER EVER again do this, I prefer to NOT have a relationship than to lie, its difficult its not me and its not fair to someone I say I love.
But each to their own...

It is not ok to lie in the beginning of relationship.  It is perfectly ok to lie after. So OP should retire, get married and start providing again.  Cause relationship is no longer based on deceit.

Lina

PS there is a hint of sarcasm here for those seriously inclined.

"being selfishly manipulative" is a core competence of more than 80% of the female population. It's likely one of top five reasons guys quit on their marriages among others when they come to the realization the've been played. It's a great point you make, but its not exclusive to this one. She's just wants her way and this guy just happens to be in the way at the time she's in heat. It could be you or me had we met her. Remember, she's already defined what will make her happy and you be damned if you get in the way. What she really doesn't understand is what she sees as "happiness" is also one of the biggest core delusions on the planet.

3D, I get it. I seriously do. Your remedy is actually one of the more "honest" approaches to this dilemma that I've ever seen. Right on, you Mensa!

to proof how ridiculous they are.

I personally don't believe in starting relationships based on lie but i also don't believe in starting being dishonest after starting relationships.  People who believe it is OK to lie after should be OK with doing it before.

It is kind of (insert a word here) to pick and choose when it is OK to start being lier.

Lina

If I were paid 10x my rate for entire time it would take me to read it

Lina

Leave Mountain Dew out of it. Mountain Dew never hurt anybody.

Is it so bad for a girl who just happened to love sex and trying  pay off my tuition and trying to take care of my family and trying to secure my future financially by providing to want to have a meaningful long lasting relationship?  Hey, I ,too take pride in my job by putting smiles on my clients' face after each an every session. I am not ashamed of my profession, at all. We escorts probably contribute more to the society than you lawyers and investment bankers.
I feel offended by your dumb comments.
Would you give up your income , almost half a million a year, just to date someone so that you don't feel like you are cheating on your SO? If your answer is no, dont fucking tell me I am cheating on my SO and trying to manipulate him into something aweful. Ok?
Who are you to tell me I don't deserve to be happy just because I am a provider?

"Judgmental" was not the word I was thinking, but guys here, married or otherwise involved come here for sexual variety for a price; they are buying if you are selling. Why would they go home for any reason and tell their wives, GFs, SOs that they use this site to find and pay for sex? If they have an attack of conscience and and can't do it anymore, then all they have to do is quit. Enough said.

She on the other hand chose to do this for money and met the guy she wants to settle down with or so she says and is asking us whether we think she should hide her secret life. This and her other thread are their own fishing expeditions and she got the advice she was asking for albeit not what she wanted to HEAR. Some question whether she is even a provider. Whether is a he, a she, or just someone that likes to have these onerous threads go on and on, there are always some nuggets of wisdom that some of us glean from them. As for your "grow up" comment, I'd say to you, what's the purpose of a discussion board other than to give your opinion, like it or not. If she and you by extension, don't want to read these words you've dubbed "whips and chains," don't post or read them. It's that simple.

What JG won't tell you is that when you get past her genius, she was as flawed as any of us. Read her works as huge fables. There are tons of nuggets for use and re-use, but don't do what the Ayn Rand groupies do and still do and that is to make her some sort of god. She challenges people to think beyond their noses and that's a good thing, but in the end, she was all too human.

But 10 pages was all I could master.  I even tried Books on CDs ... got through one of them in a month but it worked better than any sleeping pill I ever tried.

I have 3 people in my life who are very dear to me and who love AR, and we all just agreed never to talk of the subject again.

Every page made me want to argue with the woman .. and that's not happening is it?

Lina

If providing was in your distant past, you knew for certain you'd never re-enter the profession, and various aspects of your former life could not revisit you and potentially harm him...I could see an argument that the topic was irrelevant.  In that hypothetical scenario, one could argue that you are now a "different person" so to speak.  The secrecy approach would not necessarily be my advice to you, but I suppose I could see the argument.      

You, however, are currently a provider and have been "providing" during the course of your current relationship with this guy.  You have been deceiving him all along and...you seem to believe you must maintain the deception to entice him into marrying you.  That just isn't a good basis upon which to begin a marriage.  Don't do that.  

If you are head over heals in love with this guy...come clean with him.  Give him a chance to decide if he wants you under the circumstances.  Who knows...he may surprise you.  

No, you wouldn't, would you?
You probably wouldn't tell someone you truly care about that you are paying other girls for sex because you don't want to hurt her feeling and you lying is better for everyone involved. I would never ever tell anyone I know outside of work about my side job because people like you would judge me.
The fact that you don't tell your boss, your clients, your coworkers, your dates and your family or anyone that you are a hobbyist doesnt make you a dishonest person. You c an chose to share certain things and decide not to share some things depending on the circumstances.

FYI, I do love my guy and respect him tremendously, I just didn't think it was your business to disclose my feelings for him for you to have a better understanding. I just assumed that if anyone were to consider marriage, love and respect are automatically involved.  Plus, I don't see having a loving long term relationship Is to trick him into marriage. My intention is not to make his life miserable by being with me. You made it sound like I am using him so that I can have babies?

Why would you ever even thinking about retiring when it pays so well and enjoyable?
Most clients adore you, respect you, and enjoy your company. And you know what's the best part about this? They pay you big bucks for that.

Ok, I'll quit if you can come up with a better business model that pays as much. It has to be fun and flexible in terms of schedule, too.

I hear you. I feel the same way about having a relationship while working. But dont tell me you don't get lonely time to time. That's why sometimes providers fell for clients, just like those idiot clients fall for girls and write about it on this board.

Posted By: dddbabe

Can't you post something obnoxious so I can say GaGa is an ass? )))


Any provider has to face same dilemma.  Don't date until good and ready to retire.  Date and lie about chosen job or admit that you are in profession less then accepted by society and chance someone who COULD be the one to turn around and leave.

One of the hardest things about this profession in my opinion is need for constant lies.  Unless lady is out and about and lucky to have very understanding family and friends, she has to lie to those she loves on daily basis.

Starting relationship from lies ads another person to that list. I am not sure I could ever do it so my decision when I started this chapter of my life was to put personal relationships on hold. I had to think about it and make very personal decision.

It may be possible that people can meet via this hobby.  Both individuals then have to be strong and honest about everything and have well defined plan.  Of course, I am not referring to those "i fallen for provider and I can't get up" married men who have neither ability nor desire to build future with Provider Du Jour of Their Dreams.  

Lina

I'm just curious. How do you afford to spend so much time on this board reading and writing stuff all the time and make millions at the same time in this kind of economy? What kind of industry are you in? I might consider that, too, instead of doing this.

Thanks for the thoughtful insight.
I suppose I shouldn't expect anything from this relationship and see where it takes us.

If you think it's best not to tell him and you can live with that,  then that's ok.
There are secrets that couples don't tell each other - that's a reality.
I just saw an article that women don't tell their husbands that they bought too much clothes or shoes LOL.   And sure, most guys don't tell their wives they've been hobbyin.

My question is - what's the chance of him finding out?
Is it better for you to move to a different city or state?
What's the chance that a former client is actually a friend of this guy?
Have you assessed that risk or possibility? If so, then you can move forward.
It's all about calculated risk.

Ms Lady,

This post needed to be addressed on the POB. There are hundreds of married or otherwise attached ladies who could have given you the advice you NEED TO HEAR. This is a trainwreck waiting to happen...

I have been married for almost 25 years....and my husband is FULLY aware of what I do...he works a civvie job, we are swingers so this lifestyle works out well for US. As for your man not knowing....after a year....hmmmmmmm I don't think that is going to work out for you....sorry but you are messing around with fire....you are living a lie as are most people who are connected to the hobby. The best policy and how to keep any drama out of our lives as providers is to tell our SO's we are providers.

You are NOT ready for a role as a wife if you are ON A WHORE BOARD ASKING A BUNCH OF MEN WHO ARE MARRIED AND FUCKING PROVIDERS QUESTIONS ABOUT BEING HONEST IN A MARRIAGE. Part of being a great wife is being very wise with your time and words....you have totally tossed yourself under the bus, and wasted time with this entire TRAIN WRECK. You have a single MALE giving you his version of how married people or otherwise attached people should behave? and exactly when is he going to practice this? HE IS NOT MARRIED!!! aint trying to be married.....not a female and not a provider. Yup, I know it is the hobby, but it would not make their wives feel any better once they get caught by them saying: "oh honey, I paid her so it was nothing serious." Ummmmmmmmm????? that may cause me to grab a PAN AND START SWINGING IT TOWARDS HIS FACE!!

I am not sure why there seems to be a double standard....HERE MISTER MODERATOR...but you make sure you carry that same attitude to your fellow hobby brothers when they post reviews.....we all know 99% of hobbyist who are married, hobby completely without their wife knowing. So if this woman is whatever you called her so are the guys.

Why is this even a topic of discussion?  Ambivalent Provider can fall in love, get married, do whatever she wants.  I think it's super that she's found a guy that she wants to spend the rest of her life with.  And I don't care why she loves him.  Women love certain men for all sorts of reasons.  I don't care if she even loves him at all.  Marriage for 'love' is a relatively recent phenomenon.

But johngaltnh is right: It's stupid to assume that a marriage based on deception will last or be happy.  It won't.  Husbands are not clients.  Trust is everything.  If you don't trust him and he can't trust you, then you are doomed from the start.

The mods just got a HUGE raise.  Oh no, wait, that's not right.

Please do not stop this train wreck of a thread, as it is very fascinating and it compensates for most of these still-born threads or the shill threads that we have been exposed to recently.

GaGa, you bring up lots of great and valid points but fucking old, fat & ugly guys (if anyone is an OFU, please do not shoot this messenger) is not exclusive to the Hobby. Look at all these Starlet types and wannabe models who latch onto these men of your description, in the civvie world, or the Sugarbaby types, etc. I think that for the most part, at least the providers are quite honest about it by admitting to it, if not being totally upfront about it, as they do not wish to be rude, inconsiderate and economically unwise! Obviously the female of our species is programmed very differently to the male counterpart and thank Goodness for that, or else, there would be many OFU guys who would simply be unfuckable!

In fact, The Love Goddess from The Erotic Highway summed this up recently in a concise manner (I am paraphrasing): For most providers it is about making good amount money as long as they are not squeamish about having sex with strangers, and for the clients, it is mostly about variety of selection and and having choices when it comes to fucking different pussy (these are my crass words and not that of the Love Goddess!) Some people on both sides of the aisle may vehemently disagree with this simple explanation and try to read way too much into the Hobby, but essentially, they are the ones who are either in denial or involved in the wrong Hobby.

In any case, enough of my bantering and please let us get back to the regular programming

It's a little late for the standard train wreck post, don't you think

that I'm only glancing and possibly missing the finer points of this argument...but did you not just tell her the same thing that GA did? Uh, don't lie about being a provider to your SO. At least that's how I read it.

I don't see how that is gender specific advice. It's not even advice, it's common sense.

No doubt there is a lot of hypocrisy in this thread as a whole, but the "advice" is no less relevant; no vagina required to figure out that basing a relationship on a lie is trouble in the making. We don't need to touch the flame to know the fire is hot. If the argument was 'practice what you preach' then it's a fair one, but better directed at a married guy than a single one.

As for Miss Ambivalence, I'd love to get a good laugh out of hearing how she'd intend to keep her occupation a secret for the duration of her married life, since she seems intent on never giving it up.

When my ol' lady was in the game there is no way she could have gotten away with that lie. She'd have had a good run for a few weeks but the excuses would've run out pretty quick. At the very least, it would have put a huge dent in her business - not having the flexability to schedule at her leisure. Because let's be honest, in a serious relationship, living under the same roof as your SO, you can't just come and go all the time without having to provide some answers, and no one is that good at lying, and no one is so naive not to question what they're being told when the circumstances begin to appear suspicious.

Given time he WILL wonder about the gray areas in your life, the questions he doesn't have answers for, the things that don't add up, the things that are just not normal. People will ask him what his wife does for a living and since most couples are fairly candid about that part of their lives, the wheels of the mind are going to start turning. Whatever elaborate, bullshit story you concoct will not hold up vs. a man intent on finding answers.

So either you're banking on him being completely obtuse, indifferent and self-involved (sounds like a shitty husband to me); or you think you're 007. Keeping that secret from friends and family is one thing; keeping it from someone who lives under the same roof, sleeps in the same bed, witnesses your daily habits and schedule, and feels entitled to know what's going on in your life, is another entirely.    

You will never pull it off, not for any substancial length of time, and I'm pretty sure the commitment you seek goes something like 'until death do us part'. How you could think that not telling him was even an option is beyond wishful thinking. Nevermind selfish. Change your name to Solipsistic Provider.    
   

My wife even has veto power over any women I see. She has even booked a few sessions for me. I would never see a provider behind my wifes back or without her blessing. Lies are poison to a marriage. Some guy can handle a relationship with a provider. My wife is a provider and I am still with her. Lies will hurt those who love you. Honesty is the only good foundation for love.

Would you give up your income , almost half a million a year, just to date someone so that you don't feel like you are cheating on your SO?

I do make that kind of money and I do enjoy my job for the most part as I some times get to help people. But if my wife asked me to retire I would, in seconds. Real love is about sacrifice. If you are not willing to sacrifice for him you do not love him. Now I would not give up my job for someone I was just dating but I would be honest about it.

Who are you to tell me I don't deserve to be happy just because I am a provider?

You do deserve to be happy, but so does the guy your seeing. Your lies are a major treat your SO long term happiness. He deserves the truth. Both of you deserve to be happy, but lies don't lead to happiness.

I do think I have useful incite on how a SO relationship works with a provider as a MAN who is MARRIED TO A PROVIDER. I feel I have as much to add to this thread as anyone even though I am not a provider or a women. There is two sides to any relationship, I offer the other side of the coin. She could not get that in the POB.

I do agree with your advise to her though. "The best policy and how to keep any drama out of our lives as providers is to tell our SO's we are providers." I agree 100%. It is the only way to make it work.

I also agree it is wrong for the guys to lie about hobbying. Honesty is important for all.

Guys hobbying 2x - 4x a month for 2 - 6 hours a month  vs. Providers doing it 22 days a month is a different thing.  There's a reason some guys here hobby 30 years and do not get caught by their S.O.

Your guy will catch on, so are you willing to give up providing and start a new life with him? How do you intend to hide the truth?  Guys who hobby 2 times a month can easily cough up an alibi why they were gone for 2 hours.  

I don't know how you can hide it, without coughing up the truth.
If you have a plan or system, do share.  I'd actually like to hear it

The lies are poison ether way and will in time still take its toll on the marriage even if the lier is never caught. At the very least it show a lack of respect and concern for ones SO. Honesty is a key to a good relationship.

I have no doubt about that (being poison).  But still I raise the question of how she can get away with it without telling the truth?  It's not a realistic plan.

Yup you are in the TINY percentage of men who have SO's who KNOW they hobby. So yes you do have useful insight into what goes on in the life of a MARRIED provider.....bc you are married to one.

Every Tom, Dick and Harry child wants to make six figures without paying any dues. It can happen, but Cinderella is a fairy tale. Gambler makes silly money because he works in a silly industry. The money I make is not quite so silly as Gambler's, but I make it because I put my own ass through college after going through some serious military training and then spent 20 years dragging myself to some places for work that it would be a compliment to call them third world.

I almost regret my response to your initial post, except I never regret anything in hindsight. It's obvious that, despite your ticking bodily clock, you are too immature to have the thing you want. your focus is completely on what you want, and it's not enough unless you have it all (family, bug money, etc.). I feel bad for this guy you're keeping under such false pretenses.

I can only hope that you came by this honestly and were raised in a family with money and given everything you ever wanted without asking.

And I have never defended men who lie about their hobbying to their SO, and I have lectured them about honesty as well.

Your advise would work if she can keep him from ever finding out as there is many ways she could be outed, former clients, ghosts of internet past, and other possible pit falls that may exist. But it would allow for a more honest relationship from this point on. It could work but she would always have that ax hanging over her head. It is a valid way in my opinion to try to save her relationship, but it is not without its risks.

You are so full of MISTER HANKIES right now. I don't care what advice you give anyone....give it all day....but when you HAVE NO CLUE what the heck you are talking about it is wrong advice.....I guess you will also chime in on a conversation about what feels better to you a tampon or a pad?

When you grow a vagina, decide to sell it, and you get yourself in a civilian relationship THEN YOU CAN GIVE A FEMALE PROVIDER ADVICE ON DATING until then I will stick with the facts....FACT IS YOU ARE NOT A PROVIDER AND YOU HAVE A PENIS......OR DID YOU NOT NOTICE IT TODAY?

You are not going to tell a fellow hobbyist:

HEY YOU LYING CHEATING SACK OF SHIT STOP SLEEPING WITH PROVIDERS RUN HOME AND CONFESS TO YOUR WIFE.

If you say you will YOU ARE DELUSIONAL....and I MEAN REALLY DELUSIONAL TO THE POINT WHERE YOU MAY NEED TO SEEK HELP FOR OPPOSITIONAL DEFIANT DISORDER...(folks who argue for the sake of arguing even when it is obvious they have no logical argument)


GOOD DAY!!!!

If you've been dating him for as long as you've said, you needed to have this convo with him a long way back. He needs to know - NOW, not later - that you've been providing for a living. Not telling him after all this time IS dishonest. It also smacks of being ashamed of being a provider.

Yes, you can choose to share only certain things, but you asked for advice. Asking for advice means disclosing certain, expected information. Because you didn't say in the first place that you "love my guy and respect him tremendously," it wasn't a far jump to presume you didn't really love him.

As for considering marriage means that "love and respect are automatically involved," think again. I don't think it's wrong to marry for money, as long as you both know that from the start. That's neither love nor respect, unless it's respect for being honest.  

For me, however, it's the fact that you have NOT been honest with your SO that gets to me. If you think that he'll have a problem with your being a provider, then it's only going to be worse now because you held back pertinent information that he needed to make an informed decision about both of you.

Besides, do you really want to marry someone who you have to "trick" into marrying you? Dear Goddess!

I don't think you are evil, simply too selfish to pull off a marriage right now.

I made that evaluation based upon very limited data. And as such, it could be wrong.

And hell, for all I know, you're lying about everything. I don't know you. For all I know you could be some dude.

My point is that being selfishly manipulative is incompatible with a happy marriage.

Its a matter of actions and consequences and reaping what you sow.

I'm not making a moral judgment there; just pointing out that gravity doesn't give providers preferential treatment. If they jump off a cliff they'll fall like anyone else.

who think she is being dishonest and evil for contemplating not telling her SO, go home and tell you wives what you do with us. Then come back and throw another stone here. Geez. Grow up. All she did was ask a simple question. You didn't need to get out the whips and chains.

I have to run as well and get my beauty sleep, but here are my basic thoughts.

Some things apply no matter whether you have a penis or a vagina. Being a provider doesn't exempt someone from the laws of cause and effect. I don't think gendercentrism is any wiser than ethnocentrism.

Some things are very predictable.

If I were already fucking 5 different women every week and hiding that fact before marriage; a reasonable person could look at that situation and predict that it did not bode well. Why would that situation change if I were a woman?

That is not, and I want to emphasize this, a MORAL condemnation. I'm not saying it is bad because some priest or rabbi wouldn't like it. Rather, I am saying that it is bad in the Nietzschean sense described in "Beyond Good and Evil." That is, I am saying that the behavior and mindset are incompatible with the goals.

Yes, it is possible to manipulate a person into marriage. And I have no doubt that on the Provider Only Board, some wise provider can give her sage advice on exactly how to do it.

But would the end result of such a manipulation be desirable? Would it be wise?

If you want to go hang gliding and try to use a bicycle to do it; it isn't going to work. And whether you have a penis or a vagina won't change the outcome.

Being intensely self-centered is incompatible with her goal; and based on her posts, she displayed intense self-centeredness.

Does that mean she is necessarily as self-centered as her post would indicate? Of course not. For all I know she could be the second coming of Mother Teresa.

So based on that limited information, I believe her approach and mindset to be incompatible with her goal, and that would apply without regard to age, sex, class, etc.

Now, maybe in provider-world, everything works differently. Maybe murder is bad when committed by men but good when committed by providers. Maybe when men get STDs they are a pain, but providers are immune. No?

But maybe ... we are a lot more alike than different. Yes? Maybe, what is good for one is good for both and that we shouldn't see things as being adversarial, but rather as a rising tide that lifts all boats.

There are still men who can accept you for who you truly are.
Certainly, there are men who marry escorts or ex-escorts.
Time heals.

Morality is not really important in this particular discussion. But practical results ARE.

If a woman lies like a rug to a man before marriage and conceals parts of her sexual history that later turn out to be quite important -- that could have a seriously adverse effect on her achievement of her intended goal.

Likewise, cheating could have seriously adverse effects.

But here is the important point: failure to mention these things for fear of offense doesn't suspend the laws of cause and effect.

Cheating can have serious adverse consequences. So can manipulating a man into marriage or lying about anything very important.

Stating that these adverse consequences are likely is not the same thing as issuing a moral condemnation.

That's because moral stances on these matters differ dramatically. Ayn Rand, for example, was obviously a big fan of affairs. LOL

so here let me help you:

You are a man...you will never understand....

see short and simple...

You guys have the most craziest relationship. I want to know how you met her and how she decided to provide while being married. I tried to read all your postings but there are simply too many to read through them all. I want to eventually tell this guy and continue to work part time if I can. What would be a good way to go about that? He seems less jealous than most men out there so I think it may be a possibility.

I once told a guy I dumped that I was an escort and he got extremely upset. Since then I decided not to ever tell any civie guys.  

You sound like you spent a lot of money seeing escorts believing that all we care about is taking your money.
I am sorry.
Go back to your world and tell your SO, if you had one, that how much you enjoy blowing cash on other girls if you are so inclined to respect her.

Plus there is nothing wrong with getting what you want after working extremely hard to get where you are from scratch. Same rules applies to me here, too, buddy. Just because you are self-made successful person doesn't mean that the rest are immature, selfish and take things for granted.

"They have clashing opinions on how to get a man tie the knot. Some advise you to never ever mention M word, Marriage, and the three little words, I Love You. Some tell you to give him basically ultimatum."
 "dont fucking tell me I am cheating on my SO and trying to manipulate him into something aweful. Ok?
Who are you to tell me I don't deserve to be happy just because I am a provider?"

 You deserve to be happy however you will not find happiness for long, marrying the guy you love and hiding the fact you are a provider. If he finds out before you tell him ,after the marriage, there is a 99.99% chance he will divorce you.
Forget the self help books written by women.They don't know how men think.

I get what you are saying and no, they are very different. Most married guys aren't mongers and do this every now and then, call it what you will. They are not lying about their occupation, they are lying about their recreation. Sure, a lie is a lie, but without it, you and most other providers would starve or have to get work that pays you pennies on what most of your charge now. I see it now, thousands of men confess to seeing providers and what you'll get is a lot of men broke and trying to see you once a year maybe. I say pick your poison dear deluded one.

OK This is how I met my wife.

I was traveling from Las Vegas, NV from a business trip back home the Salt Lake City, UT. When I stopped at a cafe/bar type place on the way to get a bite to eat. She was at this bar bare-footed a torn dress and appeared to be drunk. The manager was trying to through her out. She said she had no way to get home to Salt Lake where she lived. I offered her a ride she was wary but desperate and accepted the ride.

She was not really drunk, it turned out she was drugged. I found out that she was a provider and her client had drugged her, raped her, robbed her, drove her to the dessert, and left her to die there. She woke up well over a hundred miles from the hotel where she was drugged at and walked bare-footed to the nearest town about 6 miles away. She went to the only business which happened to be open where I stopped to eat.

When I heard what happened I offered to take her to the police but she refused as she was afraid they would arrest her and she did not screen and had no information on the guy anyway.

When I dropped her off she offered to repay me by giving me a free session but I could not accept as it would not have been right. I gave her my card and told her if she wanted I could get her car towed home from the hotel. She accepted.

She noticed how shy I was and socially awkward I was. I told her on the way to Salt Lake I haven't had much luck with women and did not have many friends. She decided to repay my kindness by befriending me sense I turned down her offer for sex.

We quickly became friends, A year later she opened up her business and retired from providing. We then started dating and a year after that we got married.

Now I am sure that everyone knows my wife later returned to escorting after her business failed. There is a lot more to the story of why she returned to the business that I will not post on a public board. But I will say that I was not a saint by any means and my failure as a husband helped her get to the point she felt she needed to return to her security blanket of providing.

No I did not cheat, but I did do something worse. Something much more selfish and hurt full. And no I did not abuse her. I want to make that clear. I could never do that.

I will say that my wife did hide the fact that she returned to escorting from me for months. I knew something was wrong but I didn't know what. She also lied about her business failing. These lies when reveled shook me to the core. They made me doubt everything about my marriage. I was beyond pissed.

The lies hurt me more than her escorting ever could. And her doing other guys for money hurts plenty.

I left that day to prevent me from doing something stupid, and I did not know if I was coming back. I did the next day as my son was there. I had a hard time looking at my wife or talking to her. I even had divorce papers drawn up. I regret that fact that I have done that to this day. It hurt her greatly. I am no saint.

We are working through our issues. But we are making it work. I love her as much now as I ever did, but I don't trust her as much as I did before. I don't know if I ever will. I do know that her coming forward made it possible to begin to trust her again. I know if she did not voluntarily come clean, nothing could have saved our marriage. Her telling me the truth made it possible to believe the why of her return to this life.

I don't know how to help you fix the damage your lies will do to your SO. You have a few choices.

First, and the one I would choose. Come clean. Maybe he can handle it, maybe he cant. It is not an easy path to walk being a providers SO. But he can then make an informed choice. He will have every right to be pissed at you and to walk away and he likely will, but the longer you lie to him the worse he will be hurt when (not if) he finds out. But he may be understanding, I was given time.

Second, Do what MatureGFE suggests and quit escorting and never tell him. This will stop the lies but you will always have an ax hanging over you relationship and there is a lot of ways it can come crashing down on you.

Third, you can dump him. It will save him from your lies and is likely the most unselfish thing to do. You would lose him for sure but it will spare him the cost of your lies.

Fourth, and last you can lie to him some more, but I doubt that will be in ether of you long term best interests.

You need to make you choice. the sooner the better for you both.

Yes, quiting the escort scene will stop the hiding and double life.

But I'm sure in the future, you will always be tempted to return for the money.
How you ease him into knowing about who you really are will have to play an equation.

If you reveal your past and he says he accepts you but you can 'never' go back to
escorting (as a price to pay for not telling him in the first place) - do you love him enough to do that?  
Anyway, good luck to you.  I hope he accepts you for who you are.
I'm the type of person who don't look at the past and become judgemental,
so I hope he is like that.  YOu can try to find out.   I hope he's not in one of those zodiac signs that can hold a strong grudge (I won't say what sign LOL).    

-- Modified on 12/15/2010 3:44:21 AM

Your story is beautiful and I hope that my BF is as open minded and understanding as you are.

I honestly feel that most men are unable to handle the truth with their fragile ego. Therefore I think that the second option is the best, where I quit and leave everything behind once in a committed relationship. It seems like the least amount of pain for everyone.

Yet you don't appear to have the same disdain for providers falling with clients. As you also complain why I can't you have love, stopping  lying to those you love is usually a good start.  Relationships based on lies and continued lying are doomed from the start.IMHO
Doc

But at the very least is tacky, especially when naming a particular hobbyist.  IMHO; discrete as well.
Doc

-- Modified on 12/15/2010 5:06:16 AM

Okay, so you think a man deceiving his wife about something you are NOW doing is not the same as her deceiving her prospective SO about something she DID and does not plan to continue. Got it. Opinions are like - everyone has one.

... you are a woman, and thus can never understand a man's perspective.

But even so, you don't need to be able to think exactly like a man to understand that sometimes men engage in self-defeating behavior.

I honor Ayn Rand for what I consider important contributions to making the field of philosophy accessible to the modern person and demonstrating its importance.

But I am very aware of her flaws. Not just her personal flaws, but the flaws in her philosophy.

Her philosophy reaches several dead ends because of mistaken premises.

Nevertheless, it is still worthwhile.

You see, THIS John Galt thinks for himself -- he doesn't let Ayn Rand or anyone else do his thinking for him.

That Ayn Rand was just a PDRIG.  (*grin*)

Pick your poison? No need. That has nothing to do with my point, unless pigs fly and hell freezes over, then we can probably talk. My concern is that people should not throw stones when their own actions make them no better than the person you are judging. It is fine to express an opinion with an honest answer to an honest question. That is not the same as telling the person you think she is despicable for even thinking of deceiving her spouse or SO. What's good for the goose is still good for the gander.

I dont have a wife or SO and I think lying sucks regardless of who is doing it, so there :-P   IMO
Doc