at least that's the only thing I can come up with.

I enjoy giving, but as you so aptly point out, the women who are being lavished with gifts from clients who resembel puppy dogs instead of men, are rarely appreciative of the gifts bestowed upon them. I think most of them lose what little respect they had for these manginas to begin with.

Oh, I forgot to mention that many of these lavish "gifts" are shared with some dead beat boyfriend who is tapping that same ass for free. lmao

and before the WK's and old fat broad contingent start calling me a misogynist, I don't blame the women. I think they are entitled to every thing they can get from these guys, after hearing them whine I am sure they earn it. It's the sniveling, suckup men that I have no respect for.

"I'm new help me out.  What is the thought process of giving a girl you barely know big ticket items like cars, computers, and $3,000 dental bills?  It sounds like a few of these girls don't even sound appreciative in the least bit".

 Some guys think they can buy love with money.

You must be one of the guys who realizes you can only rent love with money.

 Some providers play along with the fantasy until the money stops.

 Most providers do not have generous nor rich BFs , except the Johns that imagine well.

On the other side of the coin some guys are so rich, buying a car is like some of us splurging on Heineken.

"I'm really starting to think some of you guys like to get shitted on.  Honest question though.  Why spoil some girl who so doesn't deserve it?"

 The same guy who was always groveling  in school and never got the girls, will lavish gifts on providers believing his luck has changed.

 Desperation leads to desperate measures.

On the other side of the coin, if he can afford to throw his money at her and it makes both of them happy, so be it.

Maybe she will take me to dinner with his money.

      That makes me happy.

Do you really think the biker BF of the stripper or the pimp BF of the hooker really bought his way into her heart?

Have you ever met some of the deadbeat, POS BF's of the typical hooker or stripper?  These guys are the dregs of the earth, and I bet you they have never bought so much as a cup of coffee.

Women might sleep with guys that buy their way into their bed, but it takes a lot more than money for them to develop any real feelings. Quite the contrary, no woman respects a man without a spine, and buying a woman's love is the most spineless thing a man can do. Now buying (or renting) their pussy is quite a different matter. lmao.

"How do some of these get so much coin to begin with??"

They were focused on growing their businesses, while some of us were focusing on bedding as many women as possible.

And I never said the BF showers her with gifts or bought his way into her heart. There are stages and degrees.  However, initially, the BF have had to treat her well and pamper her. Having money makes this easier, and that was my point, but it isn't the only way to pamper a girl.

My point was that being a deadbeat who completely ignores her by being the dread of the earth during the initial 'seduction stage' of the relationship isn't going to fly.  It only works after he did enough for her to win her over.

Not many sane women who has any self-esteem respects a deadbeat who doesn't even have a job or even buys her a cup of coffee. I wouldn't know what a biker stripper or biker hooker are like cuz I only tend to associate with ladies both providers / civvy who don't fit that type.

From what I see, a lady who has a career of her own, makes enough money to sustain herself quite well, and is more or less highly educated, tend not to put up with abusive dead beats who are unemployed...  instead they dump the dead beat for the more successful/handsome type.

Maybe we're talking about girls in two different socioeconomic scales here but I doubt that even the biker / streetwalker type would fall for a jerk during the initial stages, unless he had some to offer her.

If you got a 2 inch cock, you do the only thing you CAN do to make it look bigger - buy a Porsche.

I'm new help me out.  What is the thought process of giving a girl you barely know big ticket items like cars, computers, and $3,000 dental bills?  It sounds like a few of these girls don't even sound appreciative in the least bit.

Might as well just give it to charity.

I just cant wrap my head around the mentality of doing so.

Flame away if you like but it's a legit question.

No flames from me.
If you are truly talking about giving a gift like that to a lady you "barely know", such as a lady you have seen once or twice, I agree it is hard for me to understand that.

But for some men and their favorite ladies it can become more than a "barely know" relationship.  A few of the ladies I have known--and met over an extended period--know more about me than almost anyone else.  We have shared a lot more than a few minutes under the covers together and have become friends.  I have given what many would consider "big ticket" gifts to these two women when they needed help and never regretted it.

I'm really starting to think some of you guys like to get shitted on.  Honest question though.  Why spoil some girl who so doesn't deserve it?

Let’s see:  a blithering idiot post, and it is made by an alias.  Oh my, what a shock!

“Deadbeat boyfriend”, “WK”, “old fat broads”, and “manginas” all crammed into a few sentences that claim anyone who does not share your self-centered view of things is obviously mentally challenged.  Clear alias puke if I ever read any.

With an attitude like yours I am surprised you can recognize respect, I doubt you have ever seen any tossed your way.

How can a guy give big gifts to a girl he barely knows/who more than likely can barely tolerate his ass?  Its hard for me to follow.

Now if you have known the woman for a few years, have good rapport.  And she actually likes you (even as just a friend).  And you can more than afford it.  Than I can understand.

But what about the guys that can't really afford it?  Is it worth hooking up a friend like that?  I'll take a friend out to dinner.  But I'd never buy a friend a car.

You can never really get a girl to really like you by just throwing money around and using that as a crutch.  You have to mix in some charm and legit qualities to get somebody to really like/love you.  This goes for friendships/civvy girls/pro girls.

Of course there are some guys so rich it doesn't matter.  One size doesnt fit all.  But im sure there are a bunch of guys overextending themselves to some girl that could give two shits about them.

I go into this assuming most of these girls are comfortable with chaos and loser guys.  It's what they are comfortable with.  It would be foolish to think otherwise.  Of course some aren't but enough are where its just easier to assume that.

But than again I'm strictly in this for fun. My goal is just to get priority booking, a legit good time, and no silly clock watching.

How does he think the girl's boyfriend got in to her pants in the first place?
Well in this case, her heart?

He too must've showered her with some gifts , maybe not over-the-top expensive shit, but still had to pamper the girl, wine and dine her, etc... in order to seduce her.

Unless he's Brad Pitt, handsome, masculine, and sexy (like myself , and can smooth talk like James Bond...

But even then I highly doubt a guy can get into a girl's heart, let alone a wealthy provider's heart, by being cheap & not spending much on the girl.... especially considering that the provider's accustomed to making pretty good money herself and can afford most things on her own.  

Although I'm sure we all agree it doesn't need to be over-the-top gifts like Aston Martin, LOL
but IMHO getting into a girl's heart certainly does get easier if there's SOME degree of pampering / gifts...
in other words $$$.

Ah now that makes sense!!!

It is true at a certain point in your life if you cant just treat women like normal folk and not on a pedestal...it ain't going to happen.  Women don't fuck "too nice" "groveling guys"...at least not for free.

Alot of guys are their own worst enemy.

How do some of these get so much coin to begin with??

A: The girl is all about the $$$$$$ and wants to squeeze some sap for all he's got. So she pretends to have "feelings" about the sap to extract the max she can.

B: The girl may use big ticket gifts as a way to upsell services not on her regular menu. That way it can't be reviewed or documented as an upsell. A hint that she'll be "real nice" if you are.... It makes the scam plausiby deniable and review proof.

C: The guy is a moron trying to buy love.

I've had a case or two of A and it was really slick how the girl tried to do it. She showed an item on a web page that she was trying to get, said there was some problem getting it for herself and asked for help. This has happened twice with two chics who are friends in the biz.

First time with girl #1, I said OK but made it clear that the item would be compenssation for time, not a gift. I didn't trust where it was going. The first time it turned out OK. She and I both delivered as promised, had a good time. When she hinted again about another item, I refused and things got ugly.

Later with girl #2 I just wouldn't go there. I haven't heard from her since. LOL!

I have a couple of favorite ladies who are pretty honest. They actually seem a little uncomfortable about tips, but I want to show appreciation. So instead I'll give a gift in the range $$-$$$$ once or twice a year.

He didn't lavish shit on her more than likely. They met somewhere along the way, she can't seem to lose him.  He treats her like shit, is a bum and she can't get enough.  It's what she's used to and is comfortable with.

Is that why you guys that lavish do lavish?

How the fuck can some of you be in the game this long and not pick up on some of these things?

.. but I don't recall anyone saying they lavish expensive gifts on girls they hardly know.  I would agree that to do so would indicate either the guy had money to burn or was trying to buy "love".  But for a gent to give expensive gifts to someone he DOES know rather well is NOT an uncommon thing for some girls.  If that's what you were talking about, then it has much less to do with buying love/impressing a girl than simply showing appreciation.  Both parties go "above and beyond" what the simple list price of the transaction is in numerous ways.  

One thing to bear in mind is that while a lot of people are struggling in this economy, some are doing exceedingly well.  Just because an Aston Martin is considered lavish by certain standards, it's not much different than buying a cheeseburger to others.

There is a huge difference which came first, the big gift or the friendship/connection.

All the ones I would do it for, the relationship developed long before the expensive gift.

Cannot speak for others.

They didnt say it, but I am reading between the lines.  Some of these guys bought gifts for girls they barely knew.  If you don't know how she's going to react to your gifts...you don't know her.  There were a few guys that said they bought gifts for girls who were not even the least bit appreciative of their generosity.  It caught them off guard. Thats crazy to me.

Ashton Martin being like buying a cheese burger for some?  Please.  Even for a really rich guy... that's a guy with a warped sense of the value of a dollar.  Rich guy today, bankrupt tomorrow.

Hey if you have the coin, it's your money.  I'm just trying to understand the why...

Very true.  I'm still making my way up myself.

It's just crazy that sharp business guys can fail to crack the puscatore cycle.

I'm assuming EC is talking about OSP's post about buying his wife an Aston Martin, for one. I'm not going to get into detail about their relationship cuz even though I'm in the know, it's neither your's nor mine's business WTF a guy buys for his wife.

I asked him myself, why didn't you just get her flowers. Same sentiment. He said she wanted an Aston Martin for a while so he went out and surprised her with one yesterday.

Cheeseburger, flowers, car. WTF difference does it make. It's the THOUGHT that counts. Kinda like when your aunt gave you that fucked up sweater for Xmas.

Personally, I bought a lady a necklace from an Armani store in Vegas one time. Saw her for a night and before she got in her car in the garage to split texted her if she wanted to do it again the next night. She said yes, so the next day I went and picked out a necklace for her cuz she was so much fun to be with, in and out of the bedroom. Put it on her that night and had another great night.

Ooo. And another thing. I've even sent a few ladies money cuz they needed it. Told me they'd take it off our next date. Told them 'no, it's a gift'. I can give it, you need it, and I'll pay my way when I see you.

Needless to say, the next dates were more than exceptional. But the point is, you give cuz you want, not cuz you expect. That's not giving.

When you treat a provider like a human being, then you can understand what I'm talking about.  

-- Modified on 9/10/2011 6:46:43 PM

And we may have just stumbled upon the root issue... reading between the lines.    When you "read between the lines", you use YOUR personal viewpoint to fill in what YOU consider to be gaps in the story....regardless of whether or not YOUR personal viewpoint is in the same vein (or even on the same continent!) as the author's, or IF there are even any gaps in their story in the first place.  Of course someone else's reasoning won't make sense when you interject your own bias!  Why not just take things as they are written and leave your projections out of it?  Just a thought....

RE: Aston's being like cheeseburgers.  Money is like air.  When you have all you need, you don't think twice about using it, wasting it, or what you do with it.  When you don't have enough, all you can think of is how to get more, save what you have, get the most out of what you have.  

Believe it or not, some have the means to treat it like air.  Just because YOU may not, does not make his sense of the value of the dollar warped - or at least, not any more warped than your own.  And also, just because someone has a different idea of the "value" of a dollar than you, does not necessarily mean he's bankrupt tomorrow.  I don't suppose you've ever heard of the Ambani, Chandler, Oppenheimer, Arnault, Sawiris, or Persson?  Do you really think any of these multi-generational billionaires will go broke over giving away a car here and there?  Shoot, they could gift me a country and not even notice it!  lol

As for the why?  Why not?

Don't hate on those with money.  They're the ones who employ those who don't....

Edited to add:  That came across a little harsh.  My intent was lighthearted but to still make the salient points.  Smiley faces added for effect!

-- Modified on 9/10/2011 8:07:45 PM

No one said I shower a babe with expensive stuff, certainly no Ipad or an Aston martin.  Most expensive stuff I've ever given was a $100 gift card and it was for a special occasion. lmao  

The ladies I meet in civvy world tend to be successful, highly educated, and have a lot of self-esteem. They don't fall for guys who treat them like shit. Rather, they break up with guys who do just that.

This stereotype of 'girls falling for assholes' is overblown, IMHO.  Maybe street walkers and $50 a pop girls who's used to being treated like shit might fall for the typical A-hole game but a girl who has any self-respect won't fall for that. Who do you think a girl would fall for?

1) a dead beat who treats her like shit, leaches off her.
2) pussy-whipped loser who who showers her with Rolex and Tiffany.
3) a guy who has his act together, treats her well without worshiping her like guy 2, fun to be with

Sure, it helps to play hard to get but there are degrees as mentioned above. Women love $$ and that's a fact, especially providers who are in this business specifically to make $$$.  Here too, there are degrees, women want a guy who's well balanced and NOT treat them not SHIT, which is why choice 3 is the right answer.  The stereotypical "bad boy jerk getting all the pussy" just doesn't fly after a certain point. Maybe in high school yes, but not in adult life.  I've seen so many cases where a girl leaves her deadbeat BF for the more successful/handsome guy or the guy who simply treats her better.  The difference, IMHO is whether or not the girl in question has any self esteem and is masochistic that she's tolerant of abuse.  

Of course, just my personal opinion after having dated 3 civvy girls simultaneously at the same time some 10 years ago and still having no problem getting civvy girls.  But then again, WTF do I know. I'm just a nice guy...  Never bought over-the-top expensive gifts for any of them, btw but was very nice nonetheless.

Lets just say it was the most expensive watch I've ever had in my life. LOL  
But I thought she was just trying to get in to my pants, rather than trying to buy my love.  

No not really, cuz she already did get into both of them.  (This was from a lady I was dating at the time)

Lets not get into how much I spent wining and dining her. LOL  While I wasn't as rich as her, back then, to buy her a several thousand dollar watch, I did spend a great deal more than that over the long run... and a whole lot of time tending to the girl's every needs: ranging from her need for attention, need for companionship, need for having someone to listen to her complaints / bitching, simply making her laugh and smile with my stupid lame jokes and slap stick personality.

This is why I disagree with some of these guys who think that treating a girl like shit and being a deadbeat jerk is the way into her heart. "Nice" guys like me have and still get plenty... lol

that they fall prey to this otherwise illogical practice of lavishing expensive gifts.

First, I'm no psychologist, but I have had (at one time, pre-divorce) a goodly amount of money and I confess to being one of those who at times lavished expensive gifts and sometimes "loans" (That I knew would never be paid back.) on my favorites.

Consider the quandry of having all this money but no way to spend it at the candy store.  It just sits around in the bank almost daring you to do something with it.

Then an opportunity comes along that allows you to both demonstrate your power and burnish your ego by being so magnaminous.  It's almost like having an orgasm when you hand over the check.

Of course, there's the old buyer's remorse that sets in afterwards, but that's a subject for it's own thread.

Thanks for starting an interesting thread here.

Just plain idiots & more money than brains. Girls won't stay with dumb asses -- even if they have big money.

Your assumptions "more than likely" are merely assumptions. You were not there when the guy first met her.

How the fuck do you think he got to that stage to begin with?  I was referring to the "seduction stage" inthe courtship where they are not officially BF/GF or SO to each other. He had to have treated her well in one way or another in order to get into her heart.  Unless she's a total masochist, of course.

I was not referring to the "over-the-hill stage". Of course a guy tends to pamper her much less when he becomes more comfortable after knowing he 'has her'.  This is the point where some guys start treating his girl like shit and the girl just can't get enough of him.

Let me know if you can skip straight to that 'over the hill stage' without going through the "seduction stage" first.  In my experience, it will be impossible... unless of course you're Brad Pitt/ Steve Jobs or something...

You weren't being too harsh.  Just giving a counter opinion.  Regarding your comments, I've made a few counter responses:

"And we may have just stumbled upon the root issue... reading between the lines.    When you "read between the lines", you use YOUR personal viewpoint to fill in what YOU consider to be gaps in the story....regardless of whether or not YOUR personal viewpoint is in the same vein (or even on the same continent!) as the author's, or IF there are even any gaps in their story in the first place.  Of course someone else's reasoning won't make sense when you interject your own bias!  Why not just take things as they are written and leave your projections out of it?  Just a thought...."

We all read between the lines and make opinions and judgement calls on people.  To take everything at face value and not assess things is silly.  People that do that end up giving money to guys like Nevin Shapiro.  Hell, you attempted to read between the lines on me, even if you were being lighthearted:

"Don't hate on those with money.  They're the ones who employ those who don't.... "

I will say I don't exactly live in the trailer park of town and leave it at that.  

You cited the extreme end of wealth and old money families. If thats who you roll with, more power to you. Of course they won't go broke buying anyone a car.  Money is like air to some that were given it and never had to work for anything.  Than there are people that were given it and still work their asses off.  Money has real value.  There is no one size fits all, before you counter me on that point.

The people I know who are wealthy and earned it don't ever treat it like air.  Sure they splurge on things.  They may have no problem buying anyone anything, but they know the value of money.

I would suspect that there are lot more guys who feel the effect of giving big ticket items as more of a dent in their pocket book than it being like eating out at good burger joint and it being like air.  They are now doubt adjusting their lifestlye to make these gifts in an attempt to woo and entice, some to girls who aren't even the least bit appreciative.  That part is crazy to me.  

I never tell a grown man what to do with his money.  Honestly I want people out there spending money in this economy.  We sure as hell need people out there spending money.

EC - you've got some pep and personality.  I will give you that.  There is no doubt you've run into a bunch of interesting and successful people.

in the P4P/stripper arena.

I really like to know what makes people tick. I can see where you are coming from.  Thanks for the no bullshit honest answer.

You wouldn't have posted it under an alias.  

You say you're a newbie?  I'm not buying it...I think you're just trying to provoke another train wreck in order to ultimately trash the ladies.  

As for gifting providers, it's really up to you.  Some of us have done so, for better or for worse.  If you are stupid enough to do this with someone you barely know, shame on you for being a fool.  If you do this someone you have known for a long time, you might actually come out ahead, and strengthen a friendship with a lady that appreciates knowing you as well.  She is, after all, taking her clothes off and having sex with you...Jiminy Crickets, is it that hard to understand?!

Hey man the girls dont need captain save a ho.  They can take care of themselves just fine.  Why would this not be a legit question?  I'm curious.  I am a new guy (however you define that).  Been around the game a few
Months and have seen a half dozen or so girls.  Ive been asking questions that whole time under BF.  You can search it.  No need to be an ass.

More to the fact I gave her one in exchange of the envelope full of cash. It wasn't a new car, but it was a car never the less. I did it because she need a car and it wasn't a big deal to me. She was very thankful. She even teared up because it meant a lot to her.

I have even given bigger gifts. For one lady I Took care of her daughter while the state wouldn't let her, payed for her to have a family lawyer to help her get her daughter back. I set her up in a furnished apartment. I gave her a car and a job as well. The thing is I have no plans on ever seeing her nude again. I gave her her out and she took it. Yes, she is very thankful for what I have done for her. We are still friends.

Unlike the car above this had a huge impact on every part of my life. Why did I do it, even after she outed me to the police? Simple it was the right thing to do, and she is a friend. I new her daughter, my whole family knew her and her daughter. I could not stand there and watch them be destroyed. I don't regret it in the least.

I am extremely blessed. I am not ultra wealthy but I am wealthy. I really don't see the point of money if you can help those in need as you run across them. Yes, even if you meet them in the hobby. I don't give money too every sob story, but to those I feel I can make a real difference to. Like in the cases above. I know sometimes I play the fool. But when I make a real difference it is worth it.

Please not I only give the large gifts when I feel it is truly needed and I trust that it wont be abused. My normal provider gifts are under $25, but they are personalized.

Actually, EC pretty much summed it up here in this link.

http://www.theeroticreview.com/discussion_boards/viewmsg.asp?MessageID=467627&boardID=12&page=1

Try going from a client to a boyfriend with a lady who's hot enough to command 500/hr to 1500/hr,
or dating a civvy girl who really has her act together.  I guarantee you it's a different game in that arena, compared to your typical biker streethooker.  If you reek of an unemployed deadbeat who can't even buy a girl a cup of coffee, chances of you getting a date are pretty much over.  You might get away with that AFTER she becomes your GF... but most definitely not BEFORE.

of that post above.

guys who dont even want the love of the hooker are thinking theyll get better service by doing that shit -- often that's not true..

from an economic standpoint, the girl of course wants to keep this guy buying her high ticket gifts, but it tells her that whatever she's been giving or purports to give him is at least enough to keep the big gifts coming so at the very least, her quality wont go up but her expectations for reward will..

also some guys (without knowing or admitting it to themselves) think they can play on the simple work-reward wiring that's etched into our brains at a very young age (if not innate). they think if they start outbidding all the other whom-they-think-to-be-less-financially-well-endowed customers, that this girl will grow dependent on this guy for her big ticket lifestyle & material well-being. they figure she may stop offering the usual of what she does to her reg customers and reserve "the best" only for him, or at least try their best to keep him happy, lest she stop getting the big rewards she's been receiving from this guy...

if escorts were just like regular girls in relationships (the type who prefer to stick to fewer mates or even have the dream hope of hooking up w one guy and staying w him thru thick & thin) then this theory might be ok.. whenever she looks at that $3,000 watch she may remember the sweet guy who gave it to her... however, most escorts (while they ARE regular girls in every way) have grown more pragmatic than that.. they dont expect this john to stick around w her and stay faithful to her, tending to her every need for decades to come.. therefore, to avoid any sort of love attachment (potentially destroying her emotional ability to provide the service to other clients) she'd rationally pawn off the big ticket sentimental values items and keep the cash, calling it a one-time big tip from a guy who cant keep his wallet shut (and prob wouldnt make for a good monogamous mate anyway)

however, if there's a guy she's been seeing dozens of times already and he's already more vested in her, and she knows he's unlikely to be doing this for other girls (like he's a guy worth hooking up with, and she 'earned' her way to the big ticket items), then it has more likelihood for working out in the big spender's favor..

just my 0.02, i may be wrong