You chance the narrative from international travel to domestic, and then tell me I'm wrong because domestic is different than international. Duh! FYI, the whole thread was about international travel. You are the one that wants to talk about domestic, probably because you don't fly international very often and so you can't speak about recent experiences of your own. Flying down to CR in economy next to crates of chickens hardly puts you in a position to comment at all, but you just can't help yourself.
I flew domestic last week with three different airlines: LA ---> PHF ---> ORD ---> LA. I had the same seat on all three flights (1E is my favorite). Delta and United called it First, and American called it Business, so you are correct in your assessment of domestic travel, but again, the thread was about international travel, and it appears you don't know much about First Class there.
So looking at your post, you said at your company, SVP and above flew First Class. How is that different than me saying "very few execs fly First Class". As I explained above, I know all about the difference between domestic and international air travel. You only know what you looked up after you read my post. I agree that 20 years ago, when you were probably still working, CEO's did all kinds of things at company expense, but times are changing. My post was about NOW, not the days when Pan Am still landed on the water and had a monopoly on international travel from the US. You're living in the past, my friend.
Ok, let's put this in hobby terms to keep this "on topic". Would you give up your first class seat on a 10 plus hour, international flight back from Paris for a lousy $1,500, which is barely enough for a dinner date with a mid priced provider?
I will confess, I have done the exact same thing as Cam and missed a flight home only to be given a choice between flying coach or waiting days for another flight with a first class seat available. Actually I have missed so many flights I stopped buying any kind of restricted ticket that charged a change fee or canceled out the ticket if I missed my flight, so I feel his pain. That said, what a cheap fuck. No fucking way would I suffer back in coach for a lousy $1,500, not to mention that with the exception of someone using airline points or miles to fly on, I bet you almost everyone else on that flight paid more than $1,500 extra to fly first class in the first place. Cam Newton makes $20 MILLION DOLLARS a fucking year, couldn't he at least offer someone fifty yard line tickets in exchange, or make a "fair" offer of at least ten grand?
So let me ask the class, How much would it take you to give up your first class seat if Cam Newton were to ask you to switch with him? Keep in mind the average flight from Paris to Dallas is about 11 hours. I've flown 11 hours in coach before, actually the first time I ever went to Europe I had to fly coach, of course I was a teenager in the Army being deployed to Germany without a lot of choice in the matter, but I'll be damned if I ever do it again just to save a few bucks. I personally couldn't imagine trading seats with someone who makes $20 mil a year for less than a "days pay" One of his of course, not one of mine. lol
How is anybody supposed to know who Cam Newton is, especially out of uniform? How many Paris-departing passengers even follow the NFL? (What do you think the passenger list was like: 1/3 French, 1/3 American, 1/3 Other?)
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If some stranger approached me with that deal, I'd be thinking something bad is going to happen no matter what. "Agents from SPECTRE http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/SPECTRE have instructions to kill the passenger in Coach 47B and make it look like an accident. Sure, I'll trade seats with you." "Will you carry this package for me?" Sure! What could go wrong?
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And if someone negotiated a higher price: "But I only have $1500 in cash on me, I'll pay you the rest when we arrive." Suuuuuurrrre you will.
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How many fake celebs are out there scamming people? Just the other day, I saw Princess Di having lunch with Elvis at a mall cafe. Di was looking pretty good, but if she had offered me her diamond tiara for $100, I'd have turned her down. (Maybe I would have asked her if we could stop by one of the 10 jewelry stores in the mall for a quick appraisal but that would be rude.)
The answer, clearly, is BOTH! LOL. First of all (as I'm sure you knew) your OP isn't remotely on topic and throwing in "which is barely enough for a dinner date with a mid priced provider" shouldn't be nearly enough. I suppose the answer is with the moribund state of this board the mods are beyond desperate for even an off-topic post.
Maybe I'll start a thread like my old one titled, "I just took a huge dump!"
Yeah, that's the ticket! rofl.
PS: What do you pay for a dinner date with one of your cut-rate floosies? I'm guessing $50, assuming you decide to splurge and take her to the local Olive Garden.
Then again, my toenail parings are smarter than that idiot Chink. Now perhaps you could explain to the class how a post about Cam Newton's flying choices has anything to do with fucking hookers?
I'm waiting.
I'd also like to know if you're so rich, how come you ain't smart?
but I think it should be on the Over 60 Board.
is strictly dollars and cents. $1500 does not even come close to closing the gap between the price of a first class ticket and coach. I don't fly Air France, but my understanding is that the pricing is about the same as BA, which I fly to London all the time. Economy typically runs between $1200 and $1600 round trip (which I, too, only did once -lol). By contrast, the lowest price I ever got on a round-trip first class ticket (ALL cash, no reward miles used) was $8800. That was about six years ago when business was slow. Typically, its between $10,000 and $12,000 if you book in advance. If you take the average of about $11,000, one-way would come to $5500. Subtract the $750 for the one-way coach seat he is trading for, and now its a difference of $4750. Subtract the $1500 he was willing to pay, and the shortfall is still $3250, so anyone "trading" seats and taking his $1500 is still LOSING $3250. THAT'S WHY NOBODY WOULD DO IT.
He would probably still not get any takers at $5000, because someone willing to pay $5500 each way is not going to give up the comfort and privacy of a sleeper seat to make $1750 while spending a miserable 11 hours in coach. I think your number of $10,000 is about right for where the bidding should START. At $10,000, I could see someone who paid all or part of their ticket with reward miles going for it. I can't say for sure I would if it was a reward ticket, but I would be tempted. Lol
I think a lot more would have to be at stake before he'd offer you that much.
I know it's common for an NFL player' salary to be divided by 16 to come up with his weekly paycheck, but we all know that every NFL player actually "works" thousands of hours each year in order to earn that giant paycheck.
Let's instead take Cam's annual salary of $20,000,000, divide it by 365 and you come up with his average income per day of a much more reasonable $54,794.52 each and every day of the year. I would probably settle for less to suffer a dozen hours or so stuck in coach as a lousy end to my trip to Europe, but I doubt I would settle for a whole lot less. To answer my own question, something only CDL came even close to doing, (but unlike Jake I am smart enough not to DEMAND that people answer my questions here) I would say that since I most likely would have spent over $10,000 for my round trip ticket, and the last way I would want to spend my last several hours of my trip would be in a tiny little coach seat, most likely stuck between two fat people, I think about twenty grand would be the number that would get me out of my nice cushy first class seat and get me to even think about sitting in the back with the great unwashed. lol
How many 1st classers (and other classes) are even paying for their own tickets out of pocket? Even if paid by "personal" CC, how many submit their business travel receipts for reimbursement? Assuming that private businessmen, possibly even our own local TER participants, are using their companies to pay for their 1st class tickets for "business travel" and assuming that even fat cat celebrities and athletes are using their agencies or LLCs to pay for their's, what do you do with the money if you accept it? Return it to your accounting department? Pocket it? Do you declare it on your tax filings?
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Or, to keep it on topic and relevant to TER, splurge on some extra Provider time?
a corporate executive of any stripe, I will explain . . . .
Very few execs fly first class on the company time. Things like that have a way of working their way back to the shareholders who will not be happy with the top brass diluting potential stock dividends on luxury travel. Its the same for small business owners like me and others here. One of the quickest ways to trigger an IRS audit is to be taking first class flights and having your closely held corp pay the bill. Usually, the very top execs at big companies can take the corporate jet, but not if they are the only one going. After that, you are more likely to find them in business class, which is typically half what a first class seat costs. I don't know about Air France, but on BA, business class still gets you a sleeper seat that folds flat, but its not as luxurious nor does it come with the amenities that first gets. If you want free use of pajamas, better food, top shelf booze, a bed with real sheets and real pillow, better entertainment devices and options, a locker to hang up your clothes while you sleep in their pajamas, a toiletry bag so you can clean up and shave in the morning (try taking a razor on coach in your carry-on and TSA will have you bent over and looking up your ass before you can say "WTF"), and nearly-complete privacy in your little "suite" area, you have to pay double. Most companies won't do that. So first-class business travel has all but disappeared from the airlines. However, you are likely to meet Hollywood people (Producers, directors, etc.) in First Class, but I have no idea who pays their fare.
When I fly first, I am the one paying, from my own after-tax earnings. If I travel for business, its business class, and we save half the cost of first, but my company pays. EXCEPTION: If the flight is 10 hours or more, which it always is to London or Hong Kong for me, I will often take my business class seat, paid for by my company, and upgrade to first using reward miles that I have earned on my own from using my credit cards. This costs the company nothing. I still have to pay the difference in the airline/airport taxes between the purchased business class seat, and the upgraded "reward" seat, which might amount to $4-500.
You claim complete knowledge of corporate air travel practices but your description is as full of holes as a wheel of Jarlsberg.
First of all you can't possibly speak for ALL companies when you say "very few execs fly first class on the company time." Companies have all kinds of different rules. Where I worked you had to be an SVP to fly First Class. Also, the restriction you cite on the CEO not flying alone on the company plane is bullshit. In my experience it happened a lot. Hell, even I, a lowly VP, flew alone on the company jet on occasion. It depends on circumstances.
You are also confused about First and Business classes. True First Class is ONLY available on international flights with Economy, Business and First Class. And almost all business travel is within the US where the only classes available are Economy and Business/First.
Now here's a hint: if you're going to play the know-it-all, you'd better actually know it all. You are more like a know-it-a-little.
You chance the narrative from international travel to domestic, and then tell me I'm wrong because domestic is different than international. Duh! FYI, the whole thread was about international travel. You are the one that wants to talk about domestic, probably because you don't fly international very often and so you can't speak about recent experiences of your own. Flying down to CR in economy next to crates of chickens hardly puts you in a position to comment at all, but you just can't help yourself.
I flew domestic last week with three different airlines: LA ---> PHF ---> ORD ---> LA. I had the same seat on all three flights (1E is my favorite). Delta and United called it First, and American called it Business, so you are correct in your assessment of domestic travel, but again, the thread was about international travel, and it appears you don't know much about First Class there.
So looking at your post, you said at your company, SVP and above flew First Class. How is that different than me saying "very few execs fly First Class". As I explained above, I know all about the difference between domestic and international air travel. You only know what you looked up after you read my post. I agree that 20 years ago, when you were probably still working, CEO's did all kinds of things at company expense, but times are changing. My post was about NOW, not the days when Pan Am still landed on the water and had a monopoly on international travel from the US. You're living in the past, my friend.
1) YOU are the one who changed the discussion to executive travel, virtually ALL of which is intra-US. The Department of Transportation estimates that just 7% of business trips involve a distance of 1,000 miles or more, which means by definition they are domestic. So you really can't discuss business travel without talking about intra-US travel. Sorry, but I'm not the one who effectively set that parameter, you were.
2) Thanks for bringing up CR. In fact, the last time I flew there it was Business Class. And it proves my point on another front: I flew United and the plane had only two classes, Business and Economy, just as I'd said above.
You're living in ignorance, my friend.
on ignorance. The flight you took to CR is what they call a "short-haul" aircraft. Its the same as all three flights I took last week. Two classes. Some airlines call it First and others call it business class, but EVERYONE calls the second class "economy." but its actually a lower standard than business class on most international flights to Europe or Asia, and comes nowhere near the standard of first class on international carriers. I think we both agree on that.
Actually, it was IMP that mentioned business travel, but I believe he was talking in the original context of international travel, which is what the OP referred to. If you look at the thread, my response was to IMP and it was correct. YOU are the one that changed to domestic travel because you it was the only way you could disagree with my post without looking like a complete idiot. You did understand that the OP was about a flight from Paris to the US, right? If its too much for you to follow the discussion as the thread gets longer, its okay, its probably age-related, and therefore out of your control. You are forgiven, but "grumpy old man" is not a good look on you. Ask around? Lol
1) Your first "point" is totally non-responsive and utterly FAILS to rebut what I said. Talk about ignorance. The sad part is you don't even get that.
2) Sorry your tiny brain isn't flexible enough to encompass a thread that actually evolves. Do you really think some higher authority forbids us from branching out? You actually did that yourself in THIS thread, so the Pot=Kettle=Black Award again goes to you. Since you seem more than a little slow here, the subject was changed by imp and YOU to business travel. And, as I just showed, virtually ALL business travel is domestic. To ignore that is to totally obscure the point, something you have a long history of doing here.
You clearly haven't looked back to see HOW it evolved. I was responding to a specific post by IMP in replying to the OP. You felt the need to change the subject to domestic business travel, when the OP was clearly about international flights. GaG is usually sufficiently accurate in his phrasing that only the most dim-witted here could possibly misunderstand what this thread was about. YOU may call this "evolution" of a thread. I call it Dementia when you jump in and change the topic, especially calling out someone who was remaining ON-topic with your nonsense that was off-topic. A thread does not EVOLVE by changing the topic and then bashing those there remained on-topic. You are just making yourself look bad. Keep up the good work. Lol
At least try looking the part. If you are diligent enough, perhaps TER will give you some free VIP days. Here's a suggestion.
And now feel free to indulge your all-consuming desire to have the last word. rofl
-- Modified on 6/26/2019 10:52:30 AM
run out of bullshit. So having nowhere to go, you part with a cheapshot? That's sooooo beneath you. Jake. Lol
Thread-cop??? You should have said "Thread-Nazi." That's the N-word libs like to throw at Conservatives.
-- Modified on 6/26/2019 2:45:48 PM
If I paid for the ticket, its my money. If my company paid, its their money up to the price THEY paid for the ticket. Any profit would be my money. (My company is not in the ticket-scalping business, but on the other hand, they should not subsidize or take a loss on a deal I made for myself). Technically, profits are income for tax purposes, but good luck finding a guy in this scenario who would pay tax on the CASH they got from Cam Newton. If you use the "What would Jesus do, also called the "Laffy test", then you pay the tax. (You don't want to offend the church people you mooch off of.)
travel expenses for reimbursement, it depends on what your expense account arrangement is with your employer. As you move up the corporate ladder, the allowed expenses become more generous and varied. I was once a V.P. of Marketing in my late 20's and my non-taxable benefits package included a gym membership, country club membership and Club 33 membership to take clients for a little "wow" time. All travel was included (and to clarify for the slow child, it was first/business on domestic and business on international.) If I had to book something myself, I just presented my credit card receipt to accounting and got full reimbursement. For many companies, no receipt, no reimbursement, so you must suck it up when taxi drivers get annoyed that you ask for a receipt. Most others in travel/hospitality are happy to give receipts (notable exception . . . . . hookers - Lol ).
Last time I flew I snuck a camera onto first class and recorded the experience.
Take a peek.
Last time I flew I snuck a camera onto first class and recorded the experience.
Amenities can vary greatly in first class from airline to airline. Next time you fly first class in THIS airline, invite me along and I'll pay for both seats. Lol