normally, I wouldn't insist that you familiarize yourself with some health information, but I came across an article that was published a few months ago and has not received any media attention.

PLEASE click down to the _A Question Of Health_ thread and read the article I pasted there about TATTOOS...

This material appears to be carefully and conservatively researched.

Tattoos may pose a SIGNIFICANT risk of contracting Hepatitis C.

As tattoos are popular in this business, there is a good chance that Hepatitis C is being transmitted through tattoo needles.

Because high sexual activity and people with tattoos go together like rice crispies and milk, we may be confusing the source of hepatitis C, assuming that was transmitted through sexual activity (although it possibly may be) when it may be coming from non sterile tatto instruments.

My strong suggestion is, based on the conclusions of this research, DON'T GET TATTOOS... at all, none....

sorry to be so blunt about it.... it would be a disservice not to report what is now known.

In a nut:
"Of the study, Robert Haley, M.D., says, "We found that commercially acquired tattoos accounted for more than twice as many hepatitis C infections as injection-drug use. This means that it may have been the largest single contributor to the nationwide epidemic of this form of hepatitis."

From what I understand it is actually transmitted through contaminated ink. Not sure where I read that.

"Of the 52 patients who had acquired their tattoos in commercial tattoo parlors, 33 percent had hepatitis C. In contrast, only 3.5 percent of patients with no tattoos had hepatitis C. Few of the tattoo-associated infections could be traced to injection-drug use, transfusions or other known routes of exposure."


33 percent risk of aquiring Hep C in a commercial tattoo parlor ?

Those are like the odds in the bathhouses in the '70s

I was wondreing if anyone would put the two together. I am glad that there are a few of us that like to research when a rather vague reference to a serious issue is mentioned.

Thank you seventhson!

knowledge is power.

The problem is when tattoo artists do not follow proper procedures.  If you go to a reputable artist, who NEVER reuses needles, and who ALWAYS uses new ink (does not pour the left over ink back), then there is not a problem.  The problem is that there is no licensing or training required to become a tattoo artist.  You must find out for your self what procedures your artist uses.  The needles must be new.  This does not mean fresh from the autoclave, either.  You want to watch the needles coming out of the packaging.  The ink should be poured into small containers, and you want to watch this happening.  Afterwards, this ink must go into the garbage.  It can not be reused.  The final concern is that Hep-C can live much longer than HIV on a clean surface, and is hard to kill.  The surfaces should be covered in several layers of plastic wrap, which must be changed for each customer.  Also, the artist must clean his (or her) hands before each customer, and then put on fresh latex gloves.  If it is done right, tattooing is no more dangerous than any other activity.  The problem is that so many tattoo artists do not practice proper hygiene.  If you want to get a tattoo, do some research into this stuff, and talk to your artist to make sure they understand the issues, and that they follow proper hygiene procedures.

Light

"Cowards can never be moral."
M.K. Gandhi

Yes, knowledge is power. I do think you have brought up one of life's many risks and I applaude you for it.  And you obviously have a wealth of information at your disposal. Okay. Now, a meaningful question for you....

Since Hep C is a potential risk when getting tattooed..... What would your personal suggestion be to protect yourself from it? I will assume this topic comes up because of it relevance in your life somehow. And maybe....possibly.... our lives?

Many fail to do any kind of research, or when any kind of research is given, decline to even acknowledge it. And we all will, in our own way, run into said individuals. But....I ask you this, sitting here, with a tattoo. One I wish I didn't have anymore(that's beside the point). I do not have Hep C, along with many, many others who have tattoos.....


I think this discussion is, essentially, about risk. Period.

The five colors    blind the eye-
The five notes     deafen the ear...
The five tastes    deaden the mouth:

Riding the chase on horseback over the fields
drives you crazy when you over do it;

And wanting what's precious
you do what distorts your being.

The sage knows this in his gut,
And is guided    
                  by his instinct


and not by what his eyes want.

oxox
             

If this gives you any idea of the general state of hygiene consciousness out there, the organ transplantation unit at Mt. Sinai hospital (presumably where you would have to go to have your new liver installed) was losing patients due to "significant lapses" in their cleanliness. One guy went in to donate half of his liver to his brother, got an infection and died within days.
 Following on that was a general news story that hospitals aroung the United States were experiencing an unprecedented rise in "nosocomial" infections, those infections that the doctor gives you because he didn't disinfect after handling an infectious patient.
 It was discovered that most doctors don't bother to wash their hands between patients because it was too time consuming and it dries out the skin.
 I was thoroughly disgusted when I had to spend time at an "upscale" clinic in NYC... the nice expensive ones with the new custom woodwork, frosted glass and other such tasteful accouterments to the top dollar medical practice... you would assume some things about their hygenic standards, right ?
 They had their own bathroom, with all new fixtures, the nice ones like you see in the home improvement magazines. One detail they left out. There was NO soap dispenser. There was no soap or disenfectant of any kind.
 I witnessed a doctor enter the bathroom, void his bowels, and walk out without so much as touching the sink. This was so repulsive to me that I walked down to the pharmacy, purchased a large pump dispenser of antibacterial soap, and conspicuously placed it on the sink.
 Is this unbelievable ? These doctors were examining patients, drawing blood, and charging unconscionable fees, yet they were so cheap that they would not bother to purchase a five dollar bottle of soap ?
 Oh.... lest I forget... a large percentage of these "doctors" were anaesthesiolgists... who spent the greater part of their time in operating rooms, probably contaminating everything in sight...

 Given all of the above, ASSUME that a tattoo facility is septic, a potential vector for Hepatitis C as well as other bad things, unless you personally witness each step of the preparation. If you do have a tattoo, and you aren't absolutely sure, get tested without delay.

Tattoos and sexual activity go together like milk and rice crispies!! LOL. O.K., so does that mean that any woman who wears a short skirt and lots of make-up f***s alot too?? Isn't that a bit stereotypical? Bottom line, as of now it is believed that Hep C is transmitted ONLY through blood. That means, syringes, toothbrushesm tatoo needles, all needles,body piercing, and sex (if there is blood exchange, e.g. anal). Kissing somebody with bleeding gums. There is no vaccine to prevent Hepatitis C, but there is a vaccination series for Hepatitis B that is three injections over 6mos. It is not yet known if the vaccine is good for life, so you should get a titer done. Hepatitis C has not been found in vaginal secretions or semen as far as I know. I worked with a prominant hepatologist, and we had many patients with Hepatitis C that continued sexual intercourse with their partner (condomless), or had been having sexual contact up until their diagnosis without a condom, and their partner was not infected.Unless you live in a bubble, abstain from sex and kissing, never share toothbrushes or razors, and NEVER get a tattoo, or body piercing then you are at risk for Hep C. Also just to brighten your day, did you know there is also a Hepatitis A,B,D,E,F,and G!!!! And I am not kidding.

-- Modified on 12/22/2002 7:27:57 AM

for all this talk about Hep-C and how people get it.
I totally agree with you up until the point of "DON'T GET TATTOOS AT ALL".

Like anything else one does in a lifetime, you should get as much info from the tattooist. (I know I didn't spell that right.)

The guy I see takes all the proper procedures.
Examples of this would be, cleaning the area on his desk where he will be placing all instruments and ink at. (He does wear gloves when starting and changes them after he cleans and sets up.) The needles are sterilized and new in the package. (After using them on me they are rolled up into a package with the used gloves, ink and little holders of ink, the package that the needles came in, and the paper towels he used on me, plus the plastic wrap that was on the counter and the stand the my body part lies on.)
I wouldn't go to just anyone. I did my research. I will continue to get Tattoos until, well, I have no more room on my body.

Shaye

PS. I do go to the doctor twice a year and get all kinds of testing on me (to make sure I don't have anything, including Hep-C.) So far, I am healthy as one can be.

which is then overgeneralized. I have been with many providers. My rough estimate is that 70% of them had tattoos, May be higher, as I could have overlooked a cutesy ankle design in the dim light.

since the Hep C topic came up from a couple of angles, one from knowledge_IS_power's tragic self report, and then from the recent discoveries of the risk associated with tatooing, added to the fact that many of us in this community DO enjoy "sex on the edge", i.e DATY, BBBJTC, anal, and so on... we sure owe it to ourselves to know what is happening on this front, or make our level best effort to find out.

I'm looking around for all the possible chinks in the armor, you might say... what can account for the differences in what is being reported ?

The Tattoo report took me by surprise, as I would have never guessed that it was THAT significant, even if my gut sense was that it had risk. BUT, if we know what it is about the tattoo process that transmits disease, and one eliminates those factors, then tatooing poses no greater risk than carving a turkey or riding a bicycle...

The only other factor that still appears to be a variable is poor oral hygiene with bleeding gums.  This would be the one uncontrolled portal that could, potentially allow Hepatitis C virus (or HIV) to enter the bloodstream and multiply within its' new host.

Given that possibility, I would think that it is imperative for anyone who participates in this lifestyle to have the best possible oral health. Brush twice a day with an electric toothbrush... the Sonicare wins hands down in my book... use a peroxide type toothpaste like Arm & hammer Peroxicare, 'cause it will kill off the "anaerobes", a type of bacteria that like to hang out between the gums and the teeth and break them down,
floss carefully with a flouride treated dental tape (but not within a couple of hours before you party, as you don't want to open anything up), keep your mouth rinsed out with Biotene (a mild, enzyme based mouthwash that protects the gums) several times a day, and a swish of Listerine before going to bed. See your dentist and hygienist regularly....

If you must chew gum, get the (expensive) Biotene chewing gum
which will protect your teeth and gums from damage.

This takes a small measure of self discipline, but the result is a pink healthy gum that clings tightly to the tooth and does not offer any openings for infectious diseases to enter.

When you DO go forth into the night for whatever turns you on, pack one of the cute 3 ounce bottles of Listerine, and rinse your mouth out thoroughly after anything.... um... moist.

Once you get the hang of it, you'll know how to do a big gargle and swish, then place your mouth back over the listerine bottle and let it flow back in, so you won't need a sink or toilet to spit it out. Just chuck the bottle when you're done. I like to spike my Listerine with a squirt of GlyOxide to nail every last little goober that might be floating around, but this is an agressive mix and I wouldn't want to do it more than once per evening, twice at the most.

One other thing... don't smoke or chew tobacco if you can help it. Nicotine trashes gum tissue like nothing else in town.

It's probably just me, but I would tend to view tattooing as I would any operation involving needle penetration and blood. That is, I would want the same sterile procedures (e.g., maintaining a sterile field) seen in an operating room. Failing this, you open the door to unwanted infections.

Even under the best of circumstances, viruses and bacteria can be transmitted where you would least expect it. Surgical endoscopes are very difficult to sterilize and have transmitted viruses. Even after several complete disinfections, infectious amounts of the Norwalk virus has been found on cruise ships.

The best, nonscientific name I've ever heard for viruses is "bad news wrapped in a protein coat." It's best not to underestimate them.

I have researched HCV to the extent I know the possible causes. I say possible because some of the research done points to some questionable reasons as to why a person contracts this disease.

I also now know proper prevention without living in a glass bubble.

The only reason I researched HCV was due to the fact that I had it. In another post I stated I was cured. A better phrase would be in remission.

I discovered I had HCV in 1998, just about the time David Crosby was diagnosed, and shortly before the country music singer (can't think of her name right now). I broke down and cried, because the only thing I had ever heard was that Hep C is not curable and you will die. I came to terms with my mortality and decided to find out how to slay this dragon. I began researching and asking questions and joined newsgroups and forums all related to HCV. Well, to keep this short, my research kept me informed on the latest treatments and herbal remedies. I had to can my first Gastroenterologist due to his lack of interest in this and found a very knowledgable Dr. that was willing to help me.

I started treatment in 1999 after much blood letting and a liver biopsy, I insisted to be put to sleep for this procedure.
2 months into treatment all signs of the virus had disappeared. I stayed on the nasty cocktail for 54 weeks, and to this day, still have no viral load.

Now to answer your question. I wouldn't get a tattoo. I don't like tattoos, but I have nothing against people that get them. They don't repulse me, but I usually won't choose a partner that has them. Sometimes passion gets in the way and I can't resist though.

And you are right, many many people with tattoo's don't get any disease, ever.
Then there are the one's that are walking around, feeling a little more fatigued than they used to feel, not knowing why, and never been tested.

eom