I don't want to go shallow with this and just talk about appearance or finances -

Is with someone I am attracted to and really want to be all up their grill and that elevates the enjoyment and potential for orgasm into the stratosphere compared to paid sex.  

Because, at least for a while, I'm done with "personal sex."  I only see providers. I have plenty of reasons but don't intend to share them here. I'm pretty happy with the result and have no interest in civvy dating/relationships.

what if you had a paid client who was your "type" - what if you remove the appearance (and I should probably say, personality) factor as I suggested in my OP ?   Now you're looking at the difference being money and a service dynamic....    but what if the person liked the same approach that you did?   How would this remain different / better / worse for you?

no different to me at all. An intimate experience is an intimate experience with anyone I encounter in any world. Guess I'm weird.

during which time I had a couple of close provider friends with whom I spent considerable OTC time and with whom I traveled a good bit.   But over time even here relationship drama found its way in,  along with some jealousy (not on my part)

that is exactly how it is with me -   I make an effort to approach every provider I choose to see in the same manner I do IRL.   If she's receptive then the experience to me seems no different.....  and I think this is often reciprocated.....

I have lots of friendships -- with both hookers and mongers -- in this game and it's been a wonderful surprise.

I've said it here before, but, for me, this world works in reverse from civvy dating.  In that world, you go through a weird dance, getting to know someone, and if things are right, sex happens.
But in this world, you have sex right away.  Then, if there's chemistry, a relationship can happen.  It's amazingly rewarding when that happens.

Well said. I have no tolerance myself for relationships nor what is involved with them (hence why I 'thought' I was here). Not always as easy as it sounds I'm afraid. I am too independent and have been on my own for years to even think about being in the drawn out bs of 'commitment' and all that entails. So yes, when intimacy arrives with anyone I see here and in the outside world, it can only be one in the same. I simply enjoy it for what it is and not a thing more. Moments are only ever terrific 'in the moment' anyhow I have learned and when it passes, it passes. I think it's just a matter of being fully aware of that moment as it's happening or it will pass you by. At least until the next one presents itself. Good to know I'm not alone (in this scenario anyhow). Good post.

-- Modified on 8/8/2014 8:36:36 PM

I'm also happy to take you to dinner.

though I've had a lot of providers they tell me they loved me -  usually when I was fucking them and they were orgasming.....      I interpret that is " I love the way I am feeling while you are fucking me".....    and yeah, the feeling is mutual -

In the service dynamic, I am working so my needs are not first or even on a par. In a non paid dynamic I can voice anything as we are on a level playing field.  

I love it when I am working my way into the moment and totally forgetting that in reality she is reeling me in ;

and I completely get that -

Personal sex = non-paid civilian sex I suppose? In that case they are VERY different. In civilian sex I have to go with the flow -that is I have to limit myself to my partners' desires and boundaries.  

Being penetrated is not something I get all hot and bothered by and what do johns like to do...yes they like to fuck. So, I rent out that part of my body exclusively for them, it really is a moneymaker and nothing else.

I have known a number of women over the years for whom oral was what they really enjoyed and penetrative did not do much for them....   as much as I love fucking I have had a couple of relationships over the years with women like that -   and very close friendships with a couple of providers wired that way as well.....

I follow a spiritual path that revolves around the practice of Yoga and have done for several decades.  

than most providers I have met -  

I like the "catch" :p

Sex with a lay woman results from some coming together beyond lust and seduction. Because providers need to keep their private lives hidden, I never feel that my life will in any way blend with theirs.

Interesting question... I am very new to the hobby, so I would expect my experience to evolve somewhat over time.  That said, part of the reason I have arrived at P4P is because the quality/enjoyment of personal sex has plateaued.  Don't get me wrong, it's still very enjoyable, but its a bit boring.  My approach to P4P is actually a little bit like courting - I focus on the charge of energy and good anxiety that comes from creating the connection.  I very much look at it as an opportunity to give and receive pleasure, as IRL.  That heightens my enjoyment.  Yes, a good fuck is outstanding, but there's a lot of other wonderful time before, between and after to be enjoyed.  Tonight is a perfect example - I met with a wonderful provider and while the sex was outstanding, I/we had more fun with foreplay, teasing and making each other laugh while lounging around naked for a couple of hours.  

You are still learning, lol! And you made a GREAT choice the first go round BTW!

xoxo,

Steph

it isn't a lot different, and in many ways it's more passionate here. I can really let myself go here, in a way that real life often doesn't allow for various reasons (both obvious and subtle). It's like a secret world in which we can lose inhibitions and totally give ourselves to the moment- and that moment changes with chemistry, the person I'm with, and the time of month. I'm a hedonist and take my pleasure as and when I can. This little world allows me to indulge that unabashedly.  

But the height of wild abandon, for me, comes through travel sex. Here, I am pursued. I prefer it that way here- I'll never answer an ISO, and if a gent doesn't make a move, we'll never meet. In traveling, however, I'm the pursuer. I choose my mark and I acquire it. And because I know we will go our separate ways afterwards, I can give in to wild abandon. In this scenario, the walls are created by passports and oceans.

I personally tend to book longer appointments so the timing and flow is pretty much the same -  I have things I like to do so my "personal" and "p4p" sex play out largely the same....   if a provider - or my girlfriend - read my reviews she may come to the conclusion that I was somewhat "scripted" in my approach to her,  but this is simply an artifact of how my personal preferences play out in my sexual "style".....   but I very much get what you are saying about the anonymity of p4p versus the sense of social context IRL......

I hope your experience continues to evolve in the same direction and that you do not allow some of the really negative posters and viewpoints to corrode your attitude and enjoyment....    

-- Modified on 8/9/2014 2:16:30 AM

The sex I had in most of my married year was better than what I'm having now with P4P, and it will likely remain that way. There's nothing on a provider's menu, whether Greek, Russian, oral, nasal or otherwise, that I didn't have on the menu before.  

and I've heard similar sentiments from some of my very favorite providers over time -

in terms of quality or variety of sex acts, I also have two SO relationships with no limits or walls....   so it's not a matter of seeing providers to obtain some sexual favour or service that I am otherwise unable to obtain.....

When I saw my patrons it was all about THEM.  When I see someone in my personal life it is either about mutual pleasure (one on one scenario) or all about me (when I play with more than one person).  In rare situations it would be somewhat partially about me as well.  Usually these situations involved long time friends who I saw for extended dates.  But even in those situations mentally I always had to be "on".

Like I said to one of my weekend dates when he suggested dating -

"if we were dating i would

1) step off this plane in jeans and tshirt and would not have bothered changing in airport bathroom into sexy outfit that I knew you wanted

2) not have blown you in the limo

3) actually get some sleep after 6 hour flight instead of fucking you for two hours

4) tell you to suck it yourself when you woke me up for middle of the night blow job

5) never leave perfectly nice cabana  to go to  Lagasse's sports bar because its "the laker's game" and we just had to  watch some dudes from LA run around kicking basketball

6) make it clear that having to sit quietly in the room while you are on conference call is really not my idea of good time, and last but not least

7) would not have been so enthusiastic about watching damn Phantom Of The Opera for 6th time'



He thought about it for a minute and said "lets keep things the way they are"


Some of the most interesting conversations I ever had about personal vs professional sex are the ones I have with a friend of mine who is male escort to single women and couples. Talking to him is pretty much like talking to another working girl, down to same likes and dislikes.

But basically, if you ask him how paid sex differs from civvie sex, he would say the same thing - it is never about MY pleasure.

When people pair-bond up, the ego emerges totally unbridled. Jealousy and possessiveness are the shallows of love's ocean. When what I give for what is given me can be fit into a plain unmarked and unsealed envelope, and the "moment" lasts no longer for her than it does for me, we both walk on with humble, unsullied  appreciation for what we shared.

When you are in a long-term relationship, it should be about being free to be yourself - let yourself go. You can't fully surrender yourself if you don't know and trust the person. When you can fully surrender yourself, that takes it to a whole new level.

unbelievably true.  

quite the opposite but that's a moot topic here. People will believe what they read or hear no matter how a person really 'is'. I'm fine with that because I'm comfortable with the woman I 'really' am. Those who care to get to know that person, terrific...those who don't, terrific. And it really only boils down to one thing really.............

again. The unknown is scary to most, that goes for all things in life. Enjoying the moment for clearly what it is, and having NO more EXPECTATIONS beyond that is alot for some to swallow. Especially here. They want more or try to 'relive' a previous moment. Can't and won't ever happen.

Call me a romantic, but before she sunk into an irretrievable eating disorder/mental illness the sex, warmth, joy and sense of ‘ahhhh’ with the woman I married was so all-encompassing that it surpassed anything I have ever experienced with any other woman - in the hobby or out - although there is one provider I know who could maybe actually surpass that except I know the boundaries here will likely never let us find out.  

... maybe it's because I had a good personal experience. Sounds like you did too.

in the hobby side of it.  More a commentary on the fact that I know far better how to have really good sex vs. when in my early 20s.

So far the approach I've taken has served me/us well.  If it ain't broke, don't fix it.

This is pretty interesting, and I think defines a common bifurcation in opinion here. On the one hand, you have people who have to feel comfort and trust with someone before they can let loose. On the other, you have people who can feel comfort and trust with perfect strangers. I'm in the latter camp. I think that's why I'm here. I'm really good at loving and becoming intimate with people I don't know. I've always thought of it as a gift. And I share it with my Sarah friends.

and far too much trouble.

and it's not about trust or fulfillment of desires or fantasies. As a hedonist, any primary partner I've chosen would necessarily be there for me in those ways, otherwise there wouldn't be a relationship. What would be the point?  

This is a great point.  I'm not the type to be trusting of strangers IRL.  I actively seek out the positive in someone, but that's different than trust.  That said, the hobby inherently builds in a certain level of trust in the sense that we each have RL on the line if we betray one another.  Maybe not the ideal basis for trust, but it's there.  With that as a backdrop, I don't "need" to really know the woman, as long as whoever and whatever she represents in correspondence setting up the date is reflected during the date AND we both respect each other's long term IRL motivations (spoken and unspoken).

While admittedly rare, this has happened for me in this world. And this would be a necessary part of any primary partnership I would enter into.  

this post should be REQUIRED reading on the Newbie Board and should periodically come up on every Regional Board  as an Admin post message With "READ THIS" in bold font.

and I don't trust escorts so...

ver had impersonal sex or sex through a 3rd party. I am always present when having sex.

that is sad....   are you able to sort out whether this is really a demand that comes from *all* of your clients,   or is it a demand you place on yourself?   I ask because you say "never"....

with her. right? i.e., some encounters with the lady you mention are better than others. just like in civvie sex

But the fact that she likes me for real justifies that somewhat.  
I'm convinced that most women are very emotionally needy. Some are train wrecks.  Some are needy in general.  Some are unstable time tombs.  

This!! "simply because of the lack of any responsibility to one another IRL".

trust built into this relationship. It's a perfect foundation for the coming together of strangers!

I completely get what you have expressed -    

if you are wired like I am and don't want to deal with a lot of relationship drama just to get laid,  don't want to financially support someone who withholds sex because of said drama,  and don't want to be taken for a ton of your assets on top of the bargain if you split company....    

even see escorts if you don't "trust" them?

Just to clarify, I am not saying I cannot have a terrific time without the full surrender and trust from a relationship that goes straight to my core - to the soul;  I am simply saying that for me, that's my 10.  And I do I count myself as one of the lucky ones who was at least able to experience this for quite some time... until life sadly got in the way.  

because that is how I am wired as well -  and how many providers I have come to know well are also wired....

I am not in this to please others only. I don't see myself as a service provider- I see myself as the hired counterpart to an otherwise impossible (or very difficult to achieve) adventure. The fee creates equality and honesty in the bedroom. Luckily my presentation and marketing tends to attract fellow adventurers more than those looking for a service.  

and I'm so very sorry real life took the course it did for you two!  In all reality, what you were able to experience is so very rare. Consider yourself blessed!!

That is one of the things that makes my meetings with ladies so erotic: I do ask them what pleases them, they tell me, and we do it (Ladies First). We also talk about the things that please me, but my primary focus is on pleasing the lady I'm with. And, when I do that, a funny thing happens: she tends to please me as well. P4P should be no different than "personal" sex in that regard: each person focusing on the other's needs results in that fireworks sex Sarah so ably describes.

I have yet to meet--but still perhaps foolishly hope to meet--the provider who doesn't lie like a rug. I can take the stories about the billionaire boyfriends jetting them off to Paris for a week of non-stop sex and shopping. It's the moans I hear the second I touch her skin to the "I want to taste your hot cum" lines, and the faked orgasm signs, that drive me nuts. If she's lying about all this, then I have to wonder what she's really thinking. Is she disgusted by my age, bored with my performance, watching the clock, thinking about the Jimmy Choo shoes she can buy and Mercedes payments she can make with the cash in the envelope?  

There's a provider whom I've seen several times now, and have complained about several times on this forum.

Yes!!  

You find that the sex you have been chasing for days/weeks/month, wasn't any better than a $150 BP gal.

of P4P.....   as well as the freedom from relationship dynamics and drama....

I have been rewarded with a lot of carnal pleasure and genuine affection for taking that approach, and been told frequently over many years that often many days go by during which she does not experience this....

Only to find out once you finally "catch" her, that she is a cold fish in the sack.

Good thing that I never "do without" while "romancing" a civvie chick. It makes the disappointment so much easier to swallow when you are still getting laid regularly while you are chasing her, and better yet that you can simply jump out of her cold bed into the arms of someone ready, willing and able without missing a beat.

he has some interesting things to say other than simply berating most people. Try it, you might actually enjoy the responses other than the ones you get hoping you take a long walk off a short pier.

but that's the chemistry part of it.  My motivation going into a date would be the same - let's have a great time and enjoy each others company.

....and that you are doing your research so that you can have the best possible experience.  I'm sure that not all providers do the same.

And to say it is sad is. well could be you projecting your feelings to this. She is not sad, she is quite okay with how she works this little minefield.  

come to me, if they are interested -  and in many more cases than not,  I am not interested -  I have very particular requirements IRL.....

I do Sarah, thank you.  And this is where I come now to feel normal - go figure - but I feel equally blessed to be here.

I'm sorry to hear that. This seems to be the operative phrase here: "hot young ladies". You'll never likely get that feeling from the younger ladies. I don't think most of them have the presence of mind/body to give you that here. I hope you meet a true courtesan someday. I'm sure it will change your perspective a little. No- a lot.

I can understand this (and your previous comment).  Perhaps I'm either too new to really know the difference, or I've been very lucky with my dates, or both.  But, I've pretty much gotten all that I've been seeking in a date.  I'm confident that some of this has come from having a mindset going in that I value an opportunity to talk about non-sexual topics and will take her lead in what she wants to discuss.  I know and accept that she is going to talk about things that she's comfortable sharing, but a genuine smile and laugh goes a long way in conveying that even in P4P, there is an opportunity for guard to relax some.

to sell their services....

to be with you in one way or another,  unless it is a quick zipless  

as is evidenced by the line of responses.  Plus, I dig the way he writes.  I suppose no one is required to play if they don't want to.

-- Modified on 8/9/2014 9:48:19 AM

after all if you were fed shit and kept in the dark all day, you wouldn't have too sunny a disposition either.

I think he really resents it when people around here actually start having fun. It probably reminds him of how sad the life of a mushroom truly is. lol

in the P4P milieu -

By my count, he has the OP plus 26 more on this thread alone....

That doesn't mean it's going to happen in many p4p situations, but sometimes it does.  And that's ok, isn't it?  

He told you, "This weekend is all about YOU! I am a servant here for your pleasure. I only seek to make you happy!"

Is the civvies want to be there without the envelop. In other words they are, at the very least, attracted and want to have sex, not only there because you sought them out and are paying for that. I see that as the pivot point.

It's a provocative topic as you can see from the responses; his answers are thoughtful and serious.  As much as I'd love to know how Rod honed his DATY skills above, I think I'll hang out here a bit longer.  The input here is a cut above the norm, seemingly regardless of who's posting - or how many.

..if he can find someone...

I have had that said to me (not on an overnight, much shorter time frame)and I said "you really want this to be about my pleasure?". He said absolutely and I said"Then I would love a warm oil massage".  

I think this is the point.  Yes.  

I usually just say that I would love it if he would do [insert something I know he wants to do].  

The old adage is that you will pay for the pussy you get in this world one way or the other.  I've had my fill of the relationship BS that seems to hover around personal sex so I choose to not pay that price.  I enjoy living in the moment and P4P is just that, so I choose to pay that price. Personal sex seems to always have too much to do with what has previously transpired and what is to come (punishment or reward).  The expectations I have to live up to in P4P are pretty simple:  be a respectful gentleman and show up squeaky clean.  I would relish a drama free, sexually satisfying personal relationship, but I haven't met that woman yet.

She never said that she was not open to enjoying the sex. Or that she did not enjoy certain aspects of the date, or even the guy's company.

granted, very limited experience to date, but its produced wonderful experiences on multiple levels.

The provider in question is one of those young hotties that SoftlySarah referenced two posts above. She's within a whisker of being open with me. She's shared a lot with me, but some I know isn't real. Other things are real, but masked a bit to protect her identity (and then throws those security cautions to the winds by sending me nude photos showing her face   )

SoftlySarah, I'm very close with one of them to getting that feeling. There's just a couple of hurdles to overcome.  

but since I too am very picky IRL as well as P4P, I find the women chasing me are simply not my type, and it's a rare DDG twentysomething that simply falls into my bed, so occasionally I will be the "chaser" instead of the "chasee" lol

The good thing is, my sex life doesn't suffer one iota during the rare "chasing period" which does make my chances of landing a hottie, twenty five years or more my junior, much more likely. As we both know, nothing is less sexy than desperation, and getting laid virtually every day makes a man far from desperate.

There's also some on this board who've been wired to find relationship sex more pleasurable, but now want nothing to do with a relationship because of a bad experience with the SO. So, they do P4P, but still would like to have a little more of that relationship feeling. Maybe it's possible, but I would think far less than likely to happen.  

I'm certain they do not. Illustrated by Springer's post perfectly. The difference is some of us see ourselves as providing a service, and others see ourselves as providing an experience. The service providers are happy keeping their true selves out of this, while the experience providers couldn't do this without involving their true selves on some level. And everyone's happy as long as they know- really know- which kind they are or which kind they desire.

working well with what you have! And looks like you're in it with her for the long haul. Best of luck getting there- sounds like you're determined, and I wish you well!

Next week she'll piss me off again.

The way I see it, being a good wife/mother and being a good sex partner are mutually EXCLUSIVE -for probably 90% of the woman population.

that I am not on it.....

-- Modified on 8/9/2014 7:40:49 PM

And like any CUSTOMER SERVICE job in my personal opinion it is supposed to be about the customer's wants and desires and pleasure.  

I did not dislike the job, as a matter of fact I actually liked it very much.  When it stopped being fun I quit.

And yes, there are plenty of customers who are about the providers' pleasure as much as their own.  Really GOOD provider will never let you know that what you THINK is pleasing her isn't doing a damn thing for her.  It's right there in the job description "create an Ideal Girl Friend Experience".  

The kind of girlfriend who laughs at all your jokes, loves giving blow jobs, always wants to have sex with you, never has any problems, likes to go to same events and is appears to be fascinated by everything you say.  She seems to enjoy your company so much, that you "forget it was a service".

But it was a service.  And the reason you have forgotten about it is simple - she was a SERVICE PROVIDER concentrating on YOUR pleasure.

which is all about being fully in the moment -

I have also met a lot of 30 to 40 something women who were really hot as well -  provider and personal -  

to remark how much honesty and thought has gone into these responses, and how bloody civil almost everyone has been -  

wind up wanting a lot more than the envelope entails from me -

Here's to the power of knowledge!

xoxo,

Steph

It is sad (a different sad) that "externals" interfere. That is one reason a lot of guys hobby is because the wife is distracted by other things. In p4p, part of what the guy pays for is for the lady to not be distracted (focused on him, the moment).

Any civvie wants to be there in the beginning BECAUSE there is some attraction, some desire to WANT to touch you, allow you to enter her body.  

I would give an arm to just sit and have drink with you. I am so attracted to your level of truth.

yes - I do get that -

simply that it is a customer service job essentially -

going in a meaningful direction. I think we all learned something about ourselves and others here.

No need to give up arms - but I have never been known to have A drink

if you ever make it to NYC drinkS can be arranged

oh, hell yes

in my personal life I am a lifestyle Dom and an S/m top -  I tie a mean Shibari and moderate at our local club....

and i can recall exactly two occasions in my professional life when these were PARTIALLY incorporated into appointment.

One was during double with another lady and second was with a patron who I would see outside of p4p in a heartbeat.