Feds urge banks to call cops on customers who withdraw $5000 or more:

http://ow.ly/KIkw6

(Mods:  Please don't move this to the P&R board.  This is an issue that concerns all in the hobby community.  It's worth talking about here.  Close sub-threads if necessary, but let's try to keep the conversation here.)

So if you need more than $5000 a day.

bristling at the source- Infowars.  

..but as with anything else, he's allowed to be "right" on his facts--sometimes, at least.

It's just the way that he can spin twelve independent factoids into some vast conspiracy that includes the Queen of England, George Soros, al-Qaeda, the Gnomes of Zurich, the Rockefellers and Rothschilds, big pharma, and the Martians that turns me off to him.

But the info on this is solid--and scary as hell.

-- Modified on 3/23/2015 10:56:48 PM

I deal with these exact issues nearly every day of my life. (Hint:  I spend a lot of time in that city in the middle of the desert with All Those Lights!  And I spend a lot of time playing cards in that funny game that you play against other people, rather than the house.)

Doing what you suggest is referred to by Big Brother as "structuring".  Never mind this particular article:  Even without this latest move, standing regulation (as opposed to this article, which is more like a "policy") for decades (since the beginning of "The War on Drugs") has been that any cash transaction of $10000+ (deposit or withdrawal) immediately triggers a "Cash Transaction Report" to the Feds.

However, if you try to "work around it" as you suggest, and a bank employee with nothing better to do notices that you're putting a lot of cash in or out over a short period of time, you are deemed to be "structuring"--this triggers an automatic Cash Transaction Report as well as a Suspicious Activity Report.  This is usually followed by a visit from the FBI....

...and then the "fun" really starts.

There's no really good "workaround" for this stuff--most providers hit a point where PayPal closes their accounts forever, cash money is riskier than ever, nobody on either side of our little world wants to use checks or credit cards (for all sorts of obvious reasons).

There is one other possible "workaround"--but I have voluntarily banned myself from discussing it, because I've been accused of having an agenda to promote..  Those who know and understand, do.  The rest just aren't ready yet.

For all those of us in the cash economy, this is just a heads-up:  Guys and gals, be careful out there....


First they came for the providers.....

I only see 3 lines of text showing, followed by 9 comments. Is there an actual article there, or just a blurb of someone's passing thought?  Is there an additional link that I missed

Just a little warning, if you went Tuesday and took out $3000 then Thursday to a different branch for $3000 the bank software MAY automatically flag the transaction for SAR.....  Just throwing this out there.  I'll never have this issue, but I do know the software is already set up in many places to monitor it.  Plus the tellers generally can see your recent transactions as well.

Posted By: SoftlySarah

bristling at the source- Infowars.  
   
 At any rate, I did a little digging around and found the original source of this info and it is pretty alarming. Honestly- chilling.  
   
 From WSJ on 3/16:

...but always under $5,000.  I've never been asked why I need the money.  It's cash back, not a withdrawal but I've never been questioned about withdrawals either.

Maybe it's because I always bank in person - I've never used an ATM.  We'll see what happens from now on with the new Fed warning.

A number of providers not have LLC's set up so you can wire transfer $ into their account,
Some also take credit cards,
Both are a big help.

cash is nearly banished except for very small denominations that one might use for small incidental purchases.

This will have an unintended result of driving many people (like us) to alternate forms of currency, especially the on-line types such as Bit-coin, which also could have disastrous results on account of manipulation, etc.

It's going to get interesting, that's for sure.

At any time, some over-zealous bank official or government employee can mess things up for that provider.

If there is a "paper trail" (these days that trail is electronic of course) any human whose job it is to monitor, account, provide oversight, etc, of that trail can drop dime on the provider, revoke the credit cards, confiscate whatever is in the bank accounts summarily via a process known as "civil forfeiture", leaving the provider high and dry, and all of her clients now exposed as well. (Try googling up "Operation Chokepoint" and see what you find.  I know many people who have been affected by that--and not just sex workers, either...)

With the clients exposed, we can start the clusterfuck of potential prosecution under RICO, the Mann Act, etc.

This is not exaggeration.  All of this has happened already to various providers and agencies.  The question is how aggressive will the Feds get, and will there ever be any pushback from the citizens.

("Well, what do I care if they go after hookers and johns?  They deserve that sort of treatment, anyway.  Besides, *I'm* not doing anything wrong, I have nothing to hide! I'm a good person..."

Uh-huh.  Let me know how that line of reasoning works out for you.

(Small edit for grammar--late night..sleepy)

-- Modified on 3/24/2015 4:51:11 AM

If you show your face in that same branch relatively often and the tellers and higher-level employees more or less know you--so you've mitigated that risk to a degree.

Even so, there is monitoring software that runs on auto-pilot and there's not much you can do about it.  If the algorithm sees patterns that "it doesn't like" you may be subjected to additional scrutiny, cordial relationships or not.

Sorry to be such a buzzkill, folks.  fwiw, France is so freaked out over terrorism threats (or at least that's what they're saying) that they've lowered those "trigger points" for extra scrutiny to as low as 1000 Euros depending on the use-case in question.

I pull a lot of cash for similar reasons as you, and I would much rather the bank report the transactions to the Government as they are required to, which so far has not caused me any problems, than take the chance on being suspected of structuring.

The problem is it's "Fire, ready, aim" in these cases and the burden of proof is usually on you to prove you are innocent, not the other way around. Funny thing, if I actually need $9,000 in cash, I will just go ahead and take ten out, as I said I have had no problems in the past taking out large sums of cash, I certainly don't want to raise any red flags by appearing to be trying to skirt the regs.

and yes, this cashless society that Big Brother is trying to implement is a very scary prospect. George Orwell was not wrong by a longshot, just a bit off with the dates.

http://www.cnbc.com/id/10126617

Whoops.  Not Rubio.  I get my tea party guys mixed up

-- Modified on 3/24/2015 11:01:55 AM

Prior to 1934 there were $500 & $1000 bills printed/circulated for general use, and a certified LA "mansion" cost $30,000

Should I start buying gold now?

There are stil places which will accept bill payments...  things like utility bills, phone plans, etc.  If one had an envolupe of cash...  could pay in cash, bypassing the f*cking bank.  Not a total solution, but an aid.
A fav gal was going there as soon as I left...

Those "limits" have not been in effect since about the time I saw my first hooker, way back in the Nixon Era.

The amount of gold you are permitted to own is only limited by your ability to pay for it, and has been since 1975

The so-called "Patriot Act" requires Homeland Security to look into wire transfers even as small as $4,000.  I personally know a girl who was tripped up by this when wiring cash from Dubai and it led to the rolling up of a major agency.  Know the law.
PS: You are right that this belongs on this board.

There is a limit to how much gold a person can own.  Gold bars, etc.  It is a federally regulated commodity.

-- Modified on 3/24/2015 11:32:47 AM

little world of ours. Also, it's no wonder that in many countries people (in particular women) will wear their wealth as jewelery rather than deposit it in banks. Banks in those countries haven't been consistently secure/trustworthy (Thailand and India that I know of personally), so many citizens feel safer with it around their necks and accessible. Even with the risk of theft on the streets.

There is no way in hell I'm giving a provider one of my credit cards.  

I have 3 safes in my home with cash, guns, and gold or silver in each.  With interest rates of 0.10% on a money market, there is not a reason today to ever deposit cash into a bank.

Why is that?

They aren't likely to show up before you leave the bank.

Do you think the bill says, Jane hooker?  It's just another site you are paying a fee to. To an individual provider the frequency is probably so low, that it doesn't draw any attention. With a high volume agency it might be more of an issue.  

Funny, I went to my bank today to get "play money" and the teller said,"don't worry about the ID mr _____ we know you"
Made me think.  I wonder if they know what I'm requesting all of these 100's for?
 

yawwwn.

And she's winning!

The people who earn their living in this hobby are not the only ones being hit by this.   Small businesses that deal mainly in cash (bars, small food stores, restaurants  etc.) have had money confiscated from their accounts  based on numerous cash deposits.  In one cash a couple had over $62,000 taken from their account because they split a $12,0000 deposit into 2 $6,000 deposits.  The IRS finally returned $33,000 after what happened was reported to the media.  This is dangerous not just to our hobby but to everyone.  It allows law enforcement to make decision without review, and as we all know abuse follows shortly

by taking it all.  Hillary will take the spare change.

wi

and when the prohibition on alcohol ended - Drugs became illegal. Go figure

If you haven't had any trouble so far, I guess you are ok. Says most reports result in no action taken. Alex Jones is a joke, sorry but he is.

....and a million other pieces of information about you.  Heck, if you have your car loan through that bank, hey wouldn't possibly think of running your plate or anything.  No they're too stupid for that....

Yeesh.