I was looking at some recent reviews -- ran across a woman who sounded like fun, but she had just a couple of reviews and one was from a guy who regularly sees TSes.  That sort of did it for me -- am curious if my mind is of the more narrow type on this board.  I try to keep an open mind, but I suppose I have my limits.  

I look at the reviews on the lady and seldom check other reviews of the guys.  It is possible that I have seen someone who had seen a guy who saw a TS.  I would not see a TS myself, but realize that a safe TS is probaly on the same level as a safe provider that a reviewer of a female provider may have seen before seeing the provider.  Does this make sense or should I take a small shot of gin and go to bed?

I think at least one of the providers I have seen have been visited by guy(s) that has seen a TS. I myself would never see a TS but when I saw that a guy who has seen a TS and then seen the same provider I saw, it didn't really matter. When you think about, if you start worrying about all the people that a provider has seen then you'll drive yourself nuts and you might as well not even be in this hobby.

LOL, really though...part of my response to him didn't seem to make sense either, I Had to re-read couple of times.

My understanding is that man-on-man sex is still a huge contributor to the spread of AIDS.  That said, I am willing to be proven wrong.

Have a shot of gin for me also.

Andrew

you are perfectly within your right to react to it as you have ... scratch her (and him) off your "to-do" list if you want (it's nobody's business what floats your boat and what doesn't)

and i wouldn't say that's being narrow-minded (necessarily) ... if it's narrow-minded to exclude Trannies from your personal sexual experiences, then sign me up!

narrow-mindedness would be to exclude them from your sexual activities AND condemn their sexual lifestyle ... or worse, discriminate against them outside the sexual realm (eg. socially, legally, etc)

*

now you watch, some fag-bashing conservative nutcase will post and say "but they shouldn't be allowed X and Y and Z"

Look, whatever the man does before he sees me, that is his business, and it's not my place to judge. As long as he comes to me clean, and being very much a gentleman. Most of the ladies, don't even read his reviews, before she sees him. Most men will not give out their TER handle, so she can at least read his reviews. Should a provider not bother to see a man who has seen a Ts? Why should the provider be blamed for what a client did, before he had seen her???

Why take this so personally?

Just because I may choose not to see a provider for some personal reason doesn't mean I'm "blaming" them for anything.  

I often see providers take this stance both here and on the regional boards.  Almost everything in life involves choices, and just because I choose one course doesn't mean that I'm blaming the other courses.

I drive a car, but I don't "blame" pickups for not meeting my needs.  I'm typing right now on a Dell but I don't "blame" Gateway for not making the right PC for my needs.


-- Modified on 3/22/2004 10:01:59 PM

is essentially homosexual activity and that is, by definition, a relatively high-risk activity.

You are living in a FANTASY world if you think that ANY provider out with a good number of reivews has not seen a guy that sees TS/TV's ... only 1 out of 20 fellows I see posts a reivew... Get a grip. That means that 19 of those other guys maybe just finished doing a street tranny 5 minutes before coming to my place (hence why I bathe EVERYONE) So even if a review is not posted, we HAVE seen guys who see TV's and TS's ... This is REALITY. If you can't handle that you may need to condider that you are in the wrong hobby and move to a more exclusive type of relationship. (even then, you can' t be sure)  
It may make you feel better to belive that every guy who sees us posts a review and you have some sort of complete history but this is simply not true and they don't, and even when they do post, then they often use differnet handles for different kinks.. and frankly, it is not really your busienss.. What is your business, is if I as a provider keep safe, healthy, tested, and provide excellent service which is all info that is availible. If the concept may freak you out,  don't research it... but don't live in the fantasy world that you belive that we turn them away or for that matter even know... YOU as the hobbiest have set the stage so that we CANT acess who you see... We DON"T know who you are, where as you know us. The infamous bugblatter beast of beatlguese 5 belives that if you can't see it, it can't see you.. Same principal. If it bothers you that much, better stick to a wife and one that has been a catholic nun at that before finding you. Good providers are open minded individuals with a healthy sense of human nature and sexual diviersity.  Try reading the GREAT book "Come HIther" for a great take on good healthy kink. Just because a provider has seen someone (0r mor llikely MANY people )that are tg/ts/tv does NOT make you a person that has to enjoy the thought. You don't have to enjoy  thier experiance before you, just  the current one that you are having  now.

-- Modified on 3/23/2004 11:07:36 AM

that wanted to see me had been with a TS.

Interestingly enough, I was discussing it with Fortitude on the phone, and he had been wondering the same thing regarding something he'd encountered and had a really good post about what he had found.

He had said that anal, according to a few TS's he'd spoken with, doesn't even usually take place.

But, as with anything, how does anyone know anything? Getting tested, using condoms vs. BB, who people have seen, etc.

And, so many reviews that AREN'T written...

It would be nice to hear from TS's on the subject, whether alias or not..but it may not be comfortable conversation..

If I knew ahead of time, I'd never allow the appointment. It creeps me out.

Unfortunately, there is no way to know (unless I knew his TER handle and I presume hobbyists like that would NEVER reveal it ahead of time due to the inevitable backlash.)

I interpret your message as concern for increased risk of HIV,if all sexual contact is covered probably nothing to be overly concerned about.Where I would get a little freaked about is reading a guy has given a T-girl a bbbjtc.I think one would have to be pretty clueless to not think for a second that there is a very high probability that he's had other homosexual encounters with high risk activities.If he than see's a provider who offers anything uncovered I think you are justified in being concerned. The problem is that there are enough closet bisexual men out there that it's likely just a matter of time before a provider likely has a encounter with one even if you or her never become aware that it's happened.

"And, so many reviews that AREN'T written..."
It is important to remember that the amount of reviews a girl has isnt always equal to the amount of "activity" she is having.  A provider can have 1-2 pages of reviews yet have seen a LOT more than 20 people in her career.  Those people who choose not to write reviews may have been with any type of person before, yet prefer to remain discreet about their practices/experiences.  So there is no way to ensure anything 100%.  
That being said, it's true if you have your "proof" from a board regarding a particular provider, you can elect not to see her, but I would say you have an equal risk with ANY provider unless you know unequivocably that she is low volume and that those few gentlemen she sees are all 100% upfront with her.  There isnt always a best way to screen for that, both for the client doing his research and the provider doing hers...in general, it would be very uncomfortable to ask a guy by phone/email this sort of invasive question...sure a provider could put on her website something akin to, " I adore really MANLY men who loooove women and have done so ALL their lives", but seriously, how often can you weed this out?  
Excuse the mess if I'm rambling, but it is a given that perhaps we providers may or may not have a preference of seeing someone who had been with a TS, but you may only find out AFTER the review and I think if one is safe in sexual practices, the risk for the provider and any future sexual acquaintances are not too much greater than any other highly sexually active person regardless of the hetero/homosexual nature of the relationship. Remember, the general rule, ahem, rule NUMERO UNO, is to always cover before vaginal/anal sex, so the risk comes into play with the bbbj and the full risk of passing on the HIV virus from uncovered oral sex, while not negligible, is not high enough to me to pose a greater than average risk.  
The wisest choice for anyone truly concerned would be to abstain from the hobby, choose a monogamous partner who had previously been regularly tested, and pray that said relationship remains monogamous! Let's never forget, as a highly sexed individual, even in civilian sexual relations, you are never exempt from the aforementioned risks...hobby safe!

OK I guess I need to throw my two cents in here, because this thread directly afects me.

While I am not the norm of many TSs, ANYMAN that has seen me is no more at risk of disease than any provider. In fact he would more than likly be at a lower risk factor than many of the providers that are reviewed here!
I am a post-op ts, and prior to my surgery had never been with a man. The truth is I was not even with a woman for years prior to the surgery as well. So where does that put me now? Kinda blows out all these threads.
I have quite a few guys (TER Members) that see me, and never write reviews on me, because they are so afraid that if they do a review on me their peers will make fun of them, or other providers will not see them. The real men are the ones that have wrote reviews on me!
I worked at an Adult store/Peep show place for a period of time, and the hottest video's in that store were ones with (She-males) who was renting/purchasing these videos? Well with the fact that they could not keep them on the racks tells me alot of SO CALLED STRAIGHT GUYS.
Like I said I am very differnt I know than most, and if a guy only see's TSs,(I hate calling so many of TSs that,because they are not!) NO I would probably not see him either. Just cause  I am adverse to catching a STD as well, and there maybe a lil higher risk factor there. But call a spade a spade folks. Wether you are a provider or a hobbyst. The fact is we are all at a higher risk factor than people outside of this hobby. We need to protect our selves the best we can, and if something is not right don't put yourself into the situation. Do what is right for you, but don't think for a minute that just because a guy or provider has seen a TS that makes that person anymore of a carrier than all of our beloved providers out there that have been in this business for all these years. Because if you think like that you are just kidding your self.
There are a lot of myths about people like me, and many more are spread out of fear of the unknown by those that dont know the score. SO just think before you do something and just do what is right for you, but please stay safe!

Cheers!
Kylie

Hey -just chiming in took balls-

Good on you Kylie for letting us in on your thoughts-

A much needed perspective.  Wish more of the lady-men were TER posters just for my own education. As for me , I don't get it, but there seem to be a ton of guys who do...

OK Sully!!
The term you use so eloquently (lady-men) does nothing but promote ill feelings! The truth is I hate even having the lable TS in my name. But I do and it is unfortunatly part of my past. I really wish it wasnt so but I am a TS. But first and foremost I am a person with emotions, hopes, and desires just like anyone else. Sully you regularly post on the TS board, in a manner that serves only to flame. Why is that?? I would like to understand your real agenda there.
Wether people want to acknowledge me as a female or not is their personal business. But I am very much a female, not a dude.
So my dear Sully please think with a little more compasion before you just blurp out such rhetoric. It only serves to show a really ugly side of you.










-- Modified on 3/23/2004 11:40:23 AM

First of all, you are certainly entitled to follow your instincts and whims in order to protect yourself from disease but it would help to have the facts straight.

HIV tranmission occurs most easily with unprotected anal sex (homosexual or heterosexual is the same) because the rectal walls are thinner than the vaginal and subject to micro abrasions into which HIV infected semen can get into the blood stream.  In many African countries where the HIV spread is at it's most severe, the heterosexual community is spreading it more so than the gay community.

So in reality, you should be equally concerned with any provider who provides anal -including yourself if you have engaged in it without a condom.  You should also be concerned with any provider who has seen a male who has engaged in anal with someone else.  But then again, since HIV is shown to spread through vaginal sex as well, you should be concerend with anyone who has ever had unprotected sex before.

So probably, you should stick to virgins if you're that concerned.

The fact is that I have never heard of any provider, TS or female to offer anal without a condem.  Furthermore, you are more likely to encounter a female (as rare as it is) willing to go bareback vaginally than a TS willing to do anal bareback.  Therefore, one could make the argument that you are at higher risk with a female provider since they on occasion are more likely to break the rules and go bareback.

need someone like you to 'educate' the rest of us. I'm sure that wasn't/won't be easy. You're appreciated.

sorry- dude-

I come from SF where I grew up using terms like sista brothahs and brotha sistas, dykes, etc, ALL without malice.  Just plain folks gettin' their thing on.

Did not mean to offend, just hate the Term TS as too limiting and sterile, so looked for what I thought was a harmless term to use.

I'd say you were being too touchy, but I would not like to live in a world where I was always the Kike, so I'll try to do better...

A) you did have the surgery? right-  I would say you are a lady.

b) I have posted twice on the TS boards asking questions about the big draw.  Got a ton of flames even though I really had a question and thought I was being conspiritorially jokey.

With the caveat that I think you all need to lighten up, i will take your admonition to heart.  Goofy jewish history buffs are not the subject of tons of jokes, so I will extend my understanding to those who are the butt of more humour (pun only partially intended- I suprise myself).

Erin, sorry to say you've wasted a few minutes of typing (and sounds like a little steam too) unloading on my reply, because you're venting at the wrong guy about the wrong issue.

I don't have reservations about seeing providers that have seen clients that have seen TSs (say that three times fast), I suspect that I have many times.  And, I'm not the one who initiated the thread.  I was commenting ONLY on the use of the word "blame" in the reply that I was replying to.

My issue has nothing to do with TS's, it's with providers saying they're being "blamed" because someone chooses not to see them.  Again, I may choose to not see left-handed or tall or short or blonde or brunette providers--but that doesn't mean that I'm BLAMING them for having whatever attribute I've opted out of.

My reply was about freedom of choice and you somehow went off on some condescending rant about nuns and book recommendations.  Not trying to be a snot, but since you've taken that tone, let me just say that I don't typically take book recommendations from people who can't make it through 6 sentences without losing track of the topic.

Sorry, but one more shot at your post while I'm here:  You're absolutely 100% wrong when you say "frankly, it is not really your busienss."  What?  It is ENTIRELY my business to pick and choose whoever I want to see for whatever reasons.  It is ENTIRELY my business to exclude providers from my list for whatever reasons I choose, and to even suggest otherwise is complete nonsense.

as pointed out, the odds support the premise that a good numbers of providers *have* already seen Trannie-patrons and didn't know it (or with no reviews to indicate as such) ... at the same time, providers whose reviews *confirm* that fact may be viewed differently, statistically speaking ... it's a bit like playing blackjack and assuming the dealer has a face card versus knowing for sure that he does ... how much would you bet?

but protection against disease is just one aspect of this concern which pops up from time to time on the boards ... i think part of the original poster's concern seemed to be with a personal aversion to this activity (hence my "sexual preference" take on his post) and there's no arguing with personal tastes and preferences

i'm pretty open to most heterosexual activity, but when a provider confessed to me that she lets some clients urinate in her mouth (for the right price) she dropped off my list faster than crap runs through a goose! ... was i irrational?  is drinking urine "safe" ? ... perhaps, perhaps not, or maybe it all depends ... ultimately, i don't care

but the very fact that you are post op - a very small minority among TS providers - kind of excludes you from the implied point of this thread, don't ya think? Just askin'.

when engaging in DATY.  

It's my perception that people that will cover everything may leave this unprotected.

-Hoot.

I agree with your basic points but before you take all these gentleman to task for intolerance or ignorance perhaps you should ask some of your fellow providers to look in the mirror.  If I had a dollar for everytime a TER provider directly stated or implied that she was so much better than a higher volume provider let alone a TS because of a lower risk of STD then I could retire to the South of France and take up the good life.  

A few months ago a lady in a discussion thread posted that she was seeing 20 hobbyists a week and a couple of hobbyists made disparaging remarks about it.  A few providers acted all hurt and surprised that they could be so rude and think that way.  
But I would not be surprised that some of those attitudes were actually encouraged by various TER providers.

Everyone is free to pick and choose providers as they see fit whether the decision process makes sense or not.  However we all need to clean up our acts and at the very least we should all learn to watch what we say.

There are a lot of bisexual people.

Most providers have probably seen a bisexual guy
whether they know it or not.

Most active hobbyists have probably been with a provider
who has seen a bisexual guy at some time.

Heck, if you see traveling providers or hobbyists, you
may be only a few screws away from me.  Sort of like
the 6 degrees of separation from kevin bacon game.

Use protection.

The fact is, in the world we live in, the ONLY thing you CAN control is your own behavior.  It is foolhardy to even try to figure out if someone three degrees removed from your present encounter actually engaged in unsafe behavior.  You have to assume that they DID, whether intentionally, or unintentionally, and act accordingly YOURSELF.  What does that mean?

It means that the only way you can be 100% safe is to abstain.  But that is not realistic, so the OTHER thing that it means is that while YOU are NOT abstaining, YOU need to observe rigorous good hygiene, and always use protection whenever you engage in the type of acts that can transfer incurable diseases.



-- Modified on 3/24/2004 12:50:26 PM