I have noticed that more and more providers are requiring a selfie and photo ID for verification. I understand that they wish to do this in order to Google the person before the appointment. How do my fellow hobbyists feel about that? Are you comfortable sending your name, photo, and ID over email?
Never. Too many Providers that accept my p411 membership, so that no longer forces me to deal with that type of bullshit!
Hence I am a huge advocate for hobbiest to have p411 then its one n your done as far personal information for screening purposes. It really is a sager better way to provide/hobby.
Xo
Ariel Summers
I would not be comfortable and wouldn't generally do that.
I request this information but will accept a referral from a reputable provider (that I know) or if you are a member of p411 I will accept this as well. Honestly if you are worried about being scammed it is much more likely to happen with a request for a gift card, which I see guys still sending all the time and then complaining about that they got scammed. Do your research. A reputable provider is not going to keep any of your information once you have been verified.
I would say losing a deposit is less bad than facing extortion.
No reputable provider is not going to risk losing her business or reputation by extorting a protentional client. If you want to continue to "see" sketchy providers that are not going to ask for any screening info and are shockingly available "right now" all the time while they are actually in another country just cashing in on gift cards that is really on you buddy.
...that have no intent on keeping any personal info, however, I believe there are also risks in the schedulers who may/may not have a single thread of integrity or care about reputations 30 days from now. Then there's the pimps/mad boyfriends/roomies et al that may have access to this information. Now...if your email or database gets hacked by exactly the type of person who would want to extort hobbyists for easy cash, well, then all bets are off. I really wonder is there any other industry that not only thrives, but survives based on virtually all of the people engaging in illegal activities? Could there be a juicier target for hacking opportunists???
those who aren't? I'm not saying that includes most or many of the girls out there. And I've never run into any. But if you don't do your homework, you do run that risk with your info and are at risk of extortion.
This is another prime reason why all adult consensual sex work should be decriminalized. Legal repercussions should be available to both parties if the verbal contract is not upheld.
More likely that the cost of any legal proceedings in these types of cases would greatly exceed any loss incurred by the shady actor. I think we would quickly find that the same recourse as exist here would persist: a fair amount of caveat emptor, reliance on reputational status in some "community" and some type of reputational database for use by all (i.e, the review sites -- be they TER or Yelp/Rotten Tomatoes/etc). And probably some types of agency representation of independent contractors like various structures like Angies LIst, local publications for services (plumbers, handyman services, builders, architects, electricians, lawn/landscaping...) or something like installers vie the materials supplier such as Home Depot or Best Buy or other appliance stores.
But that is pretty much what we have anyhow.
Please, Please stop about that reputable Provider BS!
Obviously we know some will do good and other will do bad based on the situation they are in today or in the future!
We've heard the horror stories or have been part of it.
Most people don't want their personal information attached to any unlawful act, period!
I definitely don’t believe that providers delete our info right after verification as they claim (if they do that’s not very wise on their part). After the first meet, sure...but holding onto that info if god forbid the client turns out to be ‘an issue’ is a good safety precaution if things go South.
Unless providers are using encrypted text/emails where the back and forth is secure, then any expert will tell you that sending personal info via regular text or email is not safe.
I have to REALLY want to see you to send over ID and selfie. Last woman I saw did that. She didn't mention it on website, and if she did, I may not have reached out to schedule.
But she was highly rated and reviewed, and I'd been wanting to see her for years. And it was a fun appointment, no regrets so far.
At the end of the day, I'm a big proponent of you doing whatever you want, and I'll act accordingly. Your website says you ask for ID. I will choose not to reach out and save both of us the hassle.
However, if your website says you ask for ID, and I still reach out, I'm an asshole for pushing your boundaries.
On the flip side, if your website doesn't mention you ask for ID, and in the middle of screening you ask, you're kind of unserious.
I’m with you there don’t ask for ID, deposits, FaceTime, selfies, etc well into the screening. State it upfront. Had a recent provider who I reached out to for an appt via P411 but before I did I checked out all her ads, website and it said nothing about deposits or ID because if it had I would not have reached out to her to begin with. I think some know this and deliberately don’t disclose the hidden screening requirements just to lure you in - like a shady salesperson. On top of that she wanted me to send her references even though I have over 70 okays on P411, 7 of which I’ve seen in the past two months and I also have a blurred out pic of myself as my P411 profile pic and she still wanted more....I just didn’t respond and moved on
I have to REALLY want to see you to send over ID and selfie. Last woman I saw did that. She didn't mention it on website, and if she did, I may not have reached out to schedule.
But she was highly rated and reviewed, and I'd been wanting to see her for years. And it was a fun appointment, no regrets so far.
At the end of the day, I'm a big proponent of you doing whatever you want, and I'll act accordingly. Your website says you ask for ID. I will choose not to reach out and save both of us the hassle.
However, if your website says you ask for ID, and I still reach out, I'm an asshole for pushing your boundaries.
On the flip side, if your website doesn't mention you ask for ID, and in the middle of screening you ask, you're kind of unserious.
I've done it in the past, but I will never do it in the future. I've never had a bad experience or anything, I just don't feel comfortable with it anymore and I don't think it's necessary (as the client) I completely get why it would make a provider would feel more comfortable and I respect their decision to request it, but I'd rather find someone else.
... is pretty much why I'm quitting the hobby.
IMHO, it's an invitation to blackmail.
The Provider can just as easily google a client by typing your name &/or number into the google search engine
I've been doing this for several decades now and there's no way this old dog is learning that new trick. All it would take is one unscrupulous provider, madam, angry boyfriend, etc., to screw me over but good.
And in anticipation of the other oft-asked question, no--I'm not paying a deposit either.
I'm mostly okay with verification as long as it doesn't require ID or linkedIn. Provider referrals or deposit (gift cards) are untraceable although there are risks of losing the deposit. I like to keep my hobby life separate. Even when it is deleted after, i don't want my email or hobby number associated with my name.
Anytime a provider asks to see my pii info, I answer sure, you show me yours (not fake) and I'll show mine.
Not once was I taken up on this quite fair and balanced proposition, alas.
So no, I'll continue my anonymous mongering. I totally understand why a provider wouldn't want to do her biz with me due to safety implications... but the risk far outweighs the reward here for me. Maybe thirty years later when I'm retired and won't care, I'll do it for some hot provider. Right now, nah. Simply not worth it. Meet the wrong person and bye bye career.
Well, if we meet the wrong client we could be murdered. So yeah, career > a sex worker's life. I totally get your very fair and equal evaluation.
1) Most providers do NOT require personal information because they know other ways of screening that still keep them safe. The list is long.
2) While it's possible a sex worker could be murdered, statistically it's a very remote chance. There have been no reports of late about girls being murdered but I'll bet it's statistically as rare as being struck by lightening. That said, there are other shitty things that can happen from a bad client and I get that, too, but....see 1).
3) It's not simply a guy's career that can be ruined but also his marriage, which in turn destroys him financially. Not to mention kids and other family.
I’ve always thought you seemed a bit dim witted, but Is your brain seriously this smooth, or do you just get your data from a gum ball machine? Sex worker violence is not a “remote chance”. It is IN FACT an extreme chance and they put themselves at an extreme risk doing this business. In the land of REAL FACTS;
“Prostitution is considered one of the most dangerous professions in the country with a death rate over 200 per 100,000 persons. And people who specialize in kink-work, webcamming, and other forms of sex work experience higher rates of harassment, assault, and sexual violence than the general public. Since the start of the pandemic, the risks associated with sex work have worsened.”
“Globally, sex workers have a 45 to 75% chance of experiencing sexual violence at some point in their careers and a 32 to 55% chance of experiencing sexual violence in a given year. “
“In New York, 46% of indoor sex workers reported being forced to do something by a client that they did not want to do, and over 80% of street-based sex workers experienced violence.”
“One in five police reports of sexual assault from an urban, U.S. emergency room were filed by sex workers.
These stats are according to nationally accredited data published by the School of Public Health and Infectious Diseases. This means they are real FACTS, much unlike the nonsensical drivel and rose tinted assumptions stated by the OP (who obviously must live under a rock).
I like most do not like providing PI, but given the data I see it as a necessary evil if I want to see top tier talent. The more she values herself and her life, the better the provider she’ll be.
Stay safe ladies.
I never said there was a "remote chance" of violence. I said there was a remote chance of murder. I even added that of course there were other risks. But you somehow utterly failed to process that.
And while I may not have made it as clear as I might have for pinheads like you, I was NOT referring to sex workers "Globally." Sorry, I thought that was obvious since the example in the OP was a US provider.
You probably should get a brain scan yourself.
Where are you getting that 200 per 100,000 number.
Looking at the wikipedia entry it looks like you are using the wrong population for the ones that you'd find here on TER.
Even his US numbers are for ALL sex workers, including street walkers and indoor workers like mills with trafficked women. And, of course, I was responding to a post from a woman who is a GFE independent escort who screens. THAT'S what my response pertained to. So all PussyAlias's stats are totally irrelevant to that sub-section. He's the one with a "smooth brain."
Wrong again, here’s some data: https://www.hg.org/legal-articles/prostitution-in-the-united-states-30997
You are using her as an example because she works independently and offers GFE. Hilarious. What does that have to do with whether or not she’d be a target for murder or abuse. There is no correlation. The only difference between her and a woman who is more likely to be killed is her accessibility. Oddly enough, the segregation between her and the “type” of sex worker that is killed is SCREENING. The very thing that you are arguing against. This only proves the importance of screening. Essentially, screening is the mechanism that prevents her from becoming apart of the statistic of women murdered. It has nothing to do with whether she is trafficked, indoor or outdoor , GFE, independent or from a mill. A predator does not not give a shit and will target all types of sex workers. The higher prevalence of murder and violence toward trafficked or mill sex workers is due to the vulnerability that client anonymity provides not due to sexworker “type” or hierarchy.
-- Modified on 1/13/2023 7:25:23 AM
I just asked where you got your numbers and noted the wiki reference as it seems to have similar numbers but clearly talks about a different population within the sex worker field.
I did not say this. In fact, if you have read my post you'd see the part where I say I get why providers do safety screenings and I won't ever complain about them. So yes, I understand the risks providers are facing.
But I myself will not give out pii info - I'd rather have blue balls than no career. I don't think it was that hard to understand.
She has to be established (TER,P411) and in good standing with regards to reviews, reputation , character ,and how she conducts her herself .
If I take a chance outside of that ,the photo I sent probably won't be a close-up 😁.
wondering, lets say you lost your wallet and a bad actor gets your ID, would they be able to extort from you. probably not, along the same line, if a providers boyfriend or anyone else got their hands on the ID, would they be able to extort anything, thoughts?
losing a wallet would only create liability if it were lost/found in a place that would cause suspicion to a SO or employer and the finder could corroborate the find with related illegal activities. Tougher sell for the perp. If a bad actor known to a provider got their hands on your ID and also has the ability to tie you and the provider together, then yes, they would be able attempt to extort from you [or endanger] everything that you have or hold dear.
I'm really concerned less by the providers than I am by their boyfriends (pimps), schedulers and room mates. What is really scary is the opportunity for hackers. Think about it, what other "industry" has tens of thousands of guys constantly seeking illegal services via online, email and social media correspondence. This group is also flush with cash and when caught, have no good options other than to call the bluff and accept the consequences or try to find out who the perp is and deal with it in another way. Other than defense and big pharma lobbyists, could there be a juicier target for hackers?
If a random person found your wallet I'm not sure how you'd be extorted. That said, a copy of your Dl or a picture of it sent to a providers phone for screening is welcoming trouble. DON"T DO IT, regardless of the "professional" telling you it's for both your safety, etc.
You ask how you could be extorted:
1. The info could be traded to LE in exchange for preferential treatment if the provider ever gets caught up. (don't believe for a second they delete the info once you're screened)
2. Through no malice on the part of the provider, your info inadvertently falls into the wrong hands, and you get blackmailed.
Not to mention, you can't leave an honest review if the session wasn't a 10/10 for fear of being outed because you were dumb enough to give up your PII.
A REAL professional wouldn't want this level of info because of the level of responsibility that comes with having and protecting it. If you're an established monger, with recent P411 okays and references - that's plenty to see 99% of the ladies. For the few (but very vocal ladies) that insist on this level of personal info, just let them do their thing (it's their prerogative to ask) and ours to politely decline and move on.
The angle from which i was approaching my comment was that you can deny any involvement by claiming that you lost the ID.