I have to propose a new category for providers' review profile... presence/absence/severity of stretch marks.
I just saw a provider who had multiple 8s and 9s for appearance, and a couple of 10s in her reviews (I'm REALLY picky so I try to do my homework).
So I get to the location, she disrobes and is very pretty, yes, but with very noticeable stretch marks on her thighs and breasts... completely ruining her.
First, I'm amazed at the low standards of the TWO PAGES of previous reviewers for rating her highly and for not mentioning it.
The profile includes other critical features of appearance such as physique, bust size, presence/absence of tatoos and piercings... let's add stretch marks, because it's a real deal killer for me (hello! I want the fantasy of flawless beauty and youth, not a reminder that this is some single mother who neglected the cocoa butter!) and I KNOW there must at least be some segment of the client population as discerning.
Seriously though, I do agree. It's not really that different from breast appearance. Some guys may not care, and I'd bet that someone seeks out the lady with boobs listed as "droopy", but for those guys that are especially shallow, the more info the better.
Or to look at it differently, if I want to be naked around an average looking, overweight person, I'll stand in front of a mirror.
I got to say that while a nice body is a wonderful thing to behold, it's possible to get a bit carried away.
Perhaps having a disfiguring scar should be mentioned, some people are squeemish of such things, stretch marks strike me as the mark of being human, and we do want humans don't we?
Think of them like the imperfections you see in genuine leather, or the occasional (and intentional) mis-tied knot in an oriental rug: Proof of the genuinenss of the article.
When I purchase a product or service, I expect perfection... not sure why this shouldn't apply to providers.
I'll bet if you ordered a new car, and it arrived scratched-up, the dealer's assurances that it "runs fine" or that the scratches are "genuine" wouldn't keep you from nixing the deal
If you're in a business where you need to be naked, you need to keep appearances up... I mean, it's not like there aren't fixes for skin blemishes.
If you cause a bruise on your date's perfect body, even innocently enough, shouldn't you have to bear the cost to fix it up, just like if you dinged a rental car?
Perhaps this will lead to providers selling body damage insurance for another $10 just before the buisness begins?
Damn, and I promised myself I wouldn't get sarcastic. Damn, damn, damn.
Yeah, crooked teeth and body hair are human too... how nice that they can be remedied.
The Crumbesque "Mister Natural" argument isn't going to hack it here
Stretch marks are flat-out nasty to ME (and maybe some others who are too timid to mention it, who knows)... as bad as a jagged row of teeth or a tangled, unshaven mound.
I'm just saying I'd like a fair warning before wasting my time (and a provider's time) going through an appointment process.
If stretch horrify you that much, why don't you grow a set of balls and use your real user name? That way every provider who is blessed with flawless skin can beat a path to your door and keep you tight skinned bliss forever and ever more Amen.
you posted the "real doll" link before i could "get it up"
hey ozzy, as offensive as i find your post, i can identify a little bit. i hate it when the pictures aren't accurate, when i get tricked by camera angles and photoshop, and just generally when i don't get what i expected even when i've done my homework.
but we really aren't purchasing a product here, we are paying a fee to spend time with a HUMAN BEING. clearly, the time you have spent jerking off to Maxim has clouded your vision of what a real human female body looks like. FYI, women who are over 18, who have large natural breasts, who have ever gained and lost weight, who have had a child, and who don't choose to spend all their free time in a gym or all their free cash with a plastic surgeon SOMETIMES come with blemishes. and some of us "low standard" men actually consider some of these "flawed" women to rate an 8, 9, or 10 in looks.
To expect a provider to list and photograph her physical "flaws" is naive and silly. why not ask that providers publish nude closeups frontal and dorsal view under flourescent lighting?
nothing wrong with wanting certain physical characteristics in the provider that you choose - skin color, race, hair, breasts, body type, legs, ass, on and on and on. you want your ideal of youthful physical "perfection". there's nothing wrong with that, and i commiserate with the difficulty you may have had finding it.
there is everything wrong with insulting providers for what you perceive as physical "imperfection", and for insulting other hobbyists for their "low standards". YOUR standards are not mine, and they are not better than mine.
"If you're in a business where you need to be naked, you need to keep appearances up..."
My whole point is (i) some guys are turned off by noticeable stretch marks and (ii) it would be nice if the provider profile in reviews included that as a characteristic.
if that is your whole point, then i respectfully suggest that you did not express it very well, because your original post pretty clearly states that YOU, not "some guys" are turned off by noticeable stretch marks. in fact, you talk in detail about the pages of flattering reviews that DON'T mention the stretch marks (actually, i thought THAT was the whole point of your post - that other hobbyists don't share your delicate sensibilies and aren't "discerning enough" to note the disgusting stretch mark flaws.)
if you don't feel that your post is offensive, why post under an alias?
Why the alias? Because I knew chicks with stretch marks would misinterpret my suggestion as some kind of personal attack. Which was an accurate prediction.
Again: I don't like them myself, I susepct others don't either, and I'd appreciate a heads-up in reviews. Some guys for some reason (maybe they arent bothered by it and dont mention it, more likely they worry the provider will read the review and be offended) fail to mention even very obvious stretch marks... if the provider profile had the category included though, reviewers would be more likely to say "yeah, she had stretch marks" and select the appropriate response.
Accurate information makes life easier for everyone, client and provider alike. When this girl disrobed and I saw those marks, the deal was off... an uncomfortable situation for both of us, a waste of time, and lost business for her. It would be nice to avoid that in future.
Well hell, lets REALLY open up the profile and add some important info. Such as...
Bucktoothed Moles Freckles Split ends in her hair Broken nails Badly done pedicure Rough patches on her elbows Knobby knees Crows feet around her eyes
My gawd.....if a provider has any of these, someone should just issue an alert and picket in front of her incall until she promises to post her "flaws" (read that natural atributes that everyone has) in BIG BOLD LETTERS on her website and any ad she runs.
Now that you mention it though how about we include some of the following categories to a provider's profile too....
Intelligence Personality Sense of humor Vocabulary
Quote: "her "flaws" (read that natural atributes that everyone has)"
I'm sorry, everyone definitely does NOT have stretch marks. I don't, and I can think of any number of providers who don't, or at least don't have them to such severity that they are noticeable/distracting.
I find it a bit unnerving that you are taking this so personally - I have to assume that you have stretch marks and you are very sensitive about them. Again, I'm only saying I prefer no stretch marks - pretty simple. I'm in no way questioning the attractiveness of women with stretch marks... just addressing what I feel is an absence of pertinent information.
I'm a white male with sandy brown hair and blue eyes with gold flecks in the iris that makes them look green sometimes - and I know a number of women who don't like white men, and I'm sure some women are put off by blue-green eyes. But variety is cool, so it's all good.
There are men who specifically like the MILF experience - the loosened tummy, C-scar, stretch marks, you name it... and more power to them and to the women they prefer. I just happen not to be one of them.
I'm sure you're great and have plenty of clients who adore you - well, assuming you don't mention the "out the door in 60 minutes" so you can "go to the bank" to them - so good for you.
I thank the Lord for his cornucopial variety even if I'm not entirely partial to ALL of it
the point of TER is to match the right people up. The more information there is, the better. Yeah, I think freckles could be listed - because I like freckles. A lot.
But at some point, you really can't describe accurately, and photos are better - of course, photos have always been easily manipulated - just decent light makes a lot of difference.
What OZ clumsily stepped on was a pretty common women's hangup about their bodies, especially in this context, and where they see it as normal wear & tear "caused" by the hobbyist.
The thread is all about the "object" thing - women as sex objects, men as money objects. Some people want the wham-bam thing, others like it a little more subtle, and so we're stepping on the basic M-F relationship issues.
OZ was really tactless, but I think that the ladies are kidding themselves if they think a 1 hour date isn't 90% appearance. Almost all women know it and resent it. (OTOH, as we get older, we become more appreciative of being treated well, and less concerned about big-ass moles. My GF cheerfully badmouths her appearance, and her cheerfulness is what matters - I think she knows I don't give a shit.)
What I don't understand is why men are so accepting of their role as money machines, and not more resentful. Well, yes I do - it's the way people are.
Was about to ask if I needed to tell every single client that contacts me about my freckles and crow's feet, but I Luv My Job beat me to it. Dang, guess someone will be suing me for a refund next week for "false advertising." Maybe I need "flaw insurance." I suppose, since I am in the "rental" biz, I should have a tune-up, paint job, and body work like my "64 Chevy. Seems to me that if the chassis is good and the engine purrs, why mess with a classic? What about the "cars" that have their photos so air-brushed and touched up they don't even look real? Now THAT is false advertising.
BTW, did you give the poor girl ANYTHING for showing up as promised? Not HER fault you have quirky dislikes that don't seem to be mentioned in the standard reviews. I can just imagine how bad she felt after dealing with you.
BTW, I think it is a capital idea to rate on intelligence, personality, humor, and vocabulary. Gosh, some clients actually EXPECT all those traits. Who knew?
Excuse the newbie (TER approval pending) for being sarcastic.
Why would you care if gals w/ stretch marks get angry...you have no desire for them anyway...another man who would be better with a flawless blow up doll
How much smaller and cheaper can you make the ladies who put up with foetid breath, beer guts, and sweaty balls that look like they were dipped in Miracle Grow? Its not enough that we are scrutinized like cattle on an auction block apparently.
Here is a newsflash for you - take your favorite porn chick who's flawless skin on camera turns you on so much - and get her face to face naked, guess what you'll find? Yeah, stretch marks. You don't get them just from pregnancy, and most women will have a few from puberty. Your encounter with an escort isn't a porn flick, and there is no technician there to airbrush out the 'rough spots' so just get the f/k over it or find a new hobby.
Most of us ladies accept the review process because we know it provides a valuable resource for hobbyist and provider alike. I take pride in the outstanding reviews I have. But there is a line here. We are HUMAN BEINGS first and providers second. If you can't see the distinction, then you have NO business in this hobby.
Well see, I'm spoiled... I've had plenty of amazing, flawless-skinned providers. In fact, the stretch-set is, in my experience, a minority. I just want to be able to absolutely avoid them.
And me have no business in this hobby? Well sadly I am, and the customer makes the rules in the end. I might suggest actually that you're too thin-skinned to provide.
I'm not criticizing stretch marks... I'm just saying I don't like them myself, and I'd like to avoid them.
I'm not too fond of redheads either. Just preferences.
"I have the pussy so I make the rules!!" Damn right!! That guy is an idiot. Any provider wants to PM me I'll send you a pic of a hot chick in a shirt with that slogan on it.
Like HELL you "set the rules". When your 60 minutes are up, you are out the door chump and I'm on the way to the bank. Its a business, and its OUR bodies. You get to vote with your wallet before the date, or take your petty revenge in reviews when its over if the date wasn't up to snuff. That's it, that's all.
stop using an alias and being such a coward. reveal who you are so the ladies can read your reviews and avoid you like the plague. Im sure you are no day at the beach. Your personality in your posts speak volumes about what kind of man...well not really much of a man, more like a mealy mouthed coward..you are.
Acyually Sir we both make the rules. Customers are not the sole rule makers. I decide who I see and what happens when I see them ...NOT the other way round. If you don't like my rules, go elsewhere but never make that stupid mistake of thinking customers make the rules. It WILL land you in serious trouble.
You are the reason I have had to pick my demographic of clients as well as I do. And agian make no mistake...I have no reason to be at all concerned with the initial topic of your post... I took umbrage with "the customer makes the rules" crap.
Like you, we have choices...I have refused more men then I see on account of attitude, likes/dislikes and phone and email presentation....they never even get to my door to start throwing their hobbyist weight around.
I've got stretch marks on my thighs. They are light and have never been noticed by someone else without my pointing them out. I've never had children. Cocoa butter be damned. I'm also just 15#'s more than I was in the 7th grade, never having quick or sever weight fluctuations.
Stretchmarks EXIST. They don't ruin the whole package. Get over it and get real... there is no such thing as perfection!
Naturally EVERYONE has some degree of stretch marks simply from moving around... depending on skin tone it may be more or less noticeable. You are clearly in the "less noticeable" category - you've had stable weight and no kids. I'm sure you look great.
I'm talking about clear-as-day "wow, she's had a kid or two" stretch marks. Surely you've seen them. THOSE do ruin the whole package, for me at least.
So. There should be a box for "she had a kid or two" stretch marks? Now not only do you want to have them mentioned specifically, but you'd like to differentiate the degree of stretch?
Just let the ladies know in advance that you do not like stretch marks, they'll tell you to fuck off if need be.
Nothing too tricky, just make it like the tattoo indicator - none, a few, noticeable, very noticeable.
I find it interesting that you're so defensive... if you are offended by the idea of such scrutiny (you must be offended that the profile addresses quality of breast augmentations and whether a provider is shaved or not) you can always request delisting from TER.
I have several high marks for appearance and I have stretch marks. I'm a personal trainer and nutritionist. I am also a mother. I have a life and family and those stretch marks and what they have given me I wouldn't trade for the world. Some women are blessed to not get them with pregnancy and it has nothing to do with the freaking cocoa butter. I am a small woman, my skin, as of now, is taute and toned and not droopy at all. Yes very faint stretch marks but they in no way detract from my physical beauty. I do not think there should be a category about stretch marks in appearance. I have seen some girls with many many more and noticeable than me who have never had children. If a gentleman chose not to see me because of the presence of stretch marks then he would be missing out on one hell of an experience.
First let me say, he was not very tactful in his original post, and the idea of pointing out stretch marks as a review option is quite ridiculous and offensive. It can be mentioned in the typed portion of the reviews, as others have noted, that a particular providor has a "snaggle tooth" or some "poorly positioned or unattractive moles" or other minor (for lack of a better word) flaws, that others may find unattractive. That is the discretion of the reviewer. BUT, I agree with him on the point that if he has a particular thing that makes a lady unattractive TO HIM that he should know about it and because he is the PAYING CUSTOMER he has a right to know if those things are present. It's like finding large breasts unattractive (ridiculous I know) and meeting a lady under the impression that she has B-cups only to get there and find out she is a DDD. He's paying the money and not getting what he thought he paid for. That's where he made the point about the customer being right. I agree with him that as far as appearance, you should get what you think you are paying for. I understand that sometimes it won't be EXACTLY what you expected as that is the nature of the hobby, but I see his point. I personally don't like stretch marks either, but can handle some light ones as I understand that they are natural.
In summary, his post (I believe) was simply meant to point out that it is frustrating to have a particular thing that you dislike and no way of checking for it before committing yourself. And that, I think, is understandable, but he made it offensive by his presentation of the idea. Yes, perfection cannot be expected and never is by myself personally. In fact, small imperfections make each lady both unique and sexy. Perfect girls are boring. HOWEVER, as a paying customer, I got started in the hobby to enjoy the company of ladies who met the images of my dreams and fantasies. In Ozy's case, he is doing the same thing, only his fantasies are being interrupted by minor imperfections that are not so minor to him.
I support the ladies and their imperfections 100%, but I think you have to look at it from his point of view. He's paying good money that he worked hard for and he's getting something that personally isn't what he wants.
Hope this wasn't too long and I hope it helped. It's just my view on the subject.
Bravo. I think that summarizes it perfectly. While it's gotta be tough to be constantly judged based on appearance, the truth is that's part of the job as a provider. The good news is that guys have different taste. Any physical attribute is a positive to one guy and a negative to the next. At least, with truthful marketing, the customer is more likely to be visually happy with his purchase. In the end, that will likely lead to better reviews and more business for the provider. I don't see this as a bad thing, although I do agree it was poorly presented.
Because of the nature of this business, it's not perfect and it never will be. It's a venture in RISK. Whether it is STD's, LE, Stretch marks or whatever. You can't expect perfect products or services as it is not possible. My suggestion to Ozy is to persoanlly PM reviewers before meeting a lady to find out if strecth marks are present. It is a discreet and respectful way to screen for things you dislike. They will gladly tell you I am sure. You have "higher standards" so do some extra work and you may meet those standards, but don't expect the rest of Hobbytown to change just to meet your level of expectations.
You like what you like and don't like what you don't like. The numerous reviews you read do not mention stretch marks and I think that reflects the fact that the reviewers just weren't concerned about them so I don't think you will get your box on the review form. You could try other ways to solve your problem like mention your concern in an email early in the negotiation process or ask guys who agree to PM you so you can alert each other. I think everyone whose job requires looking attractive has things about themselves that they wish were better. I remember reading an interview with Bo Derek after 10 came out and she felt that her ears weren't the right size. I wrote and offered to comfort her but to no avail. B
This thread has turned into a real can of worms... but (probably foolishly) I just had to jump in.
I think adding a section to the reviews about stretch marks is probably a bad idea... but I do think you absolutely have the right to ask a provider about stretch marks before the session. Not only will it help you choose a provider who pleases you, it will also tell the provider something about you, as well.
On a personal level, after reading all of your posts, I'm rather glad I'm a redhead (not your thing), old (almost 40, and not your thing), voluptuous (not the skinny babe you prefer), and finally -- stretchmarked, my glorious battle scars that prove I'm a real woman and a proud mother (definitely not your thing!).
Just as you prefer young, flawless women, I prefer clients who are kind, loving, and appreciate a woman with heart, soul, intellect, independence, wit, and -- oh yeah -- happens to be a panic in bed. Perfect body not required.
All I can add is that I'm thankful everynight that there are gentlemen here and out in the rest of the hobbyist world who don't feel like the guy that started this thread.
It's obvious that he really doesn't like women. If he did, a couple of little stretch marks wouldn't mean a damn thing. It seems a very shallow thing to me that a man can't get excited unless he sees perfection. In my humble opinion, there's something real off about that. Even if you're paying bubba.
"a couple of little stretchmarks" is hardly an issue.
I'm referring to cases where it's quite extensive and noticeable, ie. what's meant when someone says "she has stretchmarks".
And if I'm paying, what I expect is professionalism - for a provider, this means looking damn near perfect. I've known plenty of providers who managed that, so blame them for setting a high bar. Glad I'm spoiled
I agree with Beverly's sentiment. I am glad I do not fit this man's requirements and I hope to never fit them. What I think is interesting is the thought of "who knew this would get so many upset" he obviously did or else he would have posted under his own name. Also, a gentleman always understands that it is at the lady's discretion that things are done; not his. Meaning women do ultimately set the boundaries. Another board allows the providers to review the men. What would happen if we were able to do that here? I think you'll find we would get past physical flaws and focus on what is important: personality. Last point, while many of the men on this board are true gentlemen, this man shows us again why we screen. Now if only he would man up and use his real username.
I completely agree with you! We are PAYING here! And by paying a premium for an above-average fuck-mate, we expect more than we can get at a bar for free!
If these things are clearly mentioned in the review, then those of us that expect more can steer clear of such ugliness, an the Mr. Fishers/Coochmiesters of the world can still bone the sag-n-wrinkle girls if that's what turns their crank!
Nobody is suggesting that fat, hairy, wrinkled, old, or saggy providers cannot offer their services, it's a free market, but let's get some truth and accuracy in reviewing so the consumer can find his ideal product!
If you are looking for a woman without flaws, you are doomed to failure. Each person is distinctive, and has good and bad features. Embrace the good, and delight in the distinctions. The most beautiful love poem I ever read was a one liner by Mason Williams:
I agree with you. Scars are as distracting as tattoos. More so in some cases. A scar category wouldn't be amiss.
I have stretch marks. A LOT of stretch marks. BIG stretch marks. REALLY horrible stretch marks. So bad that if there was any treatment at all for them, no matter what it was or what it cost, I'd do it.
They cover me from tits to toes. I've had them since I was 12 years old. I've never been overweight a minute of my life. Thin skin just runs in my family. All the women have stretch marks.
I'm mortified every time a guy shows up who is expecting a more perfect me. One review I had said I had "incredibly soft skin" (which, on a good day, I do), but I know that men interpret that to mean smooth, unmarked skin. I've considered having that review removed but I don't want to hurt the feelings of the gent who posted it.
I wish men would inquire about issues of specific problems when they seek to schedule an appointment. A simply worded statement along the lines of, "I'm interested in unmarked skin." (as opposed to the potentially offensive question "Do you have stretch marks?") Would give me the opportunity to reply, "I'm sorry, I don't think I'm the provider for you."
A review category indicating this issue could remove the uncomfortable inquiry process altogether for those who have problems with it.
but Ozymandias, you've taken it too far. Do you really expect to get every bit of pertinent info from an internet review? Here's a novel concept. When setting your appointment with the next "Ms. Perfect", ASK IF SHE HAS STRETCH MARKS! Do it tactfully and poof, you have your answer.
Just consider those marks and blemishes as evidence that a woman has lived a complete life. As a result, she's probably wiser, maybe a little more compassionate and almost certainly not horrified by your imperfections. Ben Franklin was right - older women are to be cherished.
O, You are absolutely correct, there are too many guys on here that a spineless jellyfish who feel that they must kiss the providers ass at every opportunity. I see no problem with how you stated your original comment.
While the providers want to think of themselves as more than a seller of services, that is what they do and you have every right to like what you like.
I think the root of the problem is with professional photos that most of the girls used to airbrush out all flaws. If the girls used unretouched photos then you would get a better idea of what the provider actually looks like, stretch marks and all. If they think that stretch marks and the like don't or shouldn't matter, then why airbrush your photos????
Wow, how much was she charging? Looks like some of you guys have lost your minds. If you're paying 200 to 300 an hour, chances are you're not really going to get super-model beauty coupled with a flawless stretch mark resistant body. You have to pay 4 digits to get that. Any woman that looks like that will not be charging a nominal fee for her time and companionship.
Then again why don't you place every little defect you can think of on a review page and see how many ladies would stack up to your expectations of pickyness. I would suspect that a mere 2% would pass muster at the average price range guys on this board expect. The rest would aound like unattractive hags.
Life is tooooooo short to be worrying about someone's stretch marks I just came back from a funeral, where a 2 year old girl died of a virus in heart, and I see this thread..
I have to agree with Ozymandias. He is not stating that the lady in question had a few little stretch marks. He is stating that it was a very obvious flaw. In that respect, I do believe it should be listed. Just as some people do not care about breast size or tatoos, it is still nice to know. As people point out, this is a fantasy being fulfilled. I did not get from his post that he meant to be offensive. And everybody immediately goes for the "use your real name argument". It is almost like when some people do not know what else to say, they just say, yea, well, use your own name then. In this business it is VERY rare to see someones real name used. And this goes for the provider or the hobbyist. Using your own name has nothing to do with it. He was only voicing an opinion as to an experience he had, and an idea that came from it. And, it just happens, that I am a redhead.
Even if his initial post had not been wildly offensive (it was), his later defenses of his initial post certainly went off the charts. When its all said and sifted, he left little doubt about his attitude about women, and it ain't pretty. I for one am grateful I don't fit his mold so I will never have to worry about seeing him in person.
I suggested to him that he use his real name to shortcut the process. Surely after showing off what a wonderful guy he is, every lady with flawless skin would be beating a path to his door and clawing one another's eyes out for a chance to have a date with him. Right?
Honey, you are being wayyyy too sensitive. I didn't get from his posts that he hates women. He's plainly stated that he doesn't like stretch marks. You and the other providers that are complaining about his posts are obviously misinterpreting what he is saying. This goes to basic male/female relationships where a guy has to measure his words or risk being harshly criticized for what he said.
Stop the airbrush photos and the hand/arm around the midrift area when taking photos and much of the complaining that guys do about a providers appearance will go away. Don't fool yourself, appearance is 95% of the reason why a guy will choose to see a woman and deceptive ads are a disservice to all that are possibly interest.
To all those men who are not toned, not tanned, don't have perfect teeth and complexion, have small weenies, have extra-large weenies, have receding hair lines (or no hair - turn on to me), have battle scars from raising children, have moles, freckles, red hair, camel toes, wrinkles, grey hair, allergies and stretch marks from drinking beer, please send your resume to: [email protected] Please be clean, polite, have the correct donation and include in your email: "I'm an Ogre!" I will promptly get back to you and gladly schedule a date.
Those who are perfect need not reply. I can get that at Chipendale's.
X Marks the Spot with a Dot Dot and a Big Question Mark. I see Tire Marks, Track Marks, Makers Mark, Streek Marks, Mark Twain, Mark your Mark. There are sheet marks / tread marks / that has not been mentioned. I do prefer a Trade Mark! IMHO Hope you find your perfect mark.
I hate to say this but I am shallow as well. The way I see the provider-client relationship is that I am paying a lot for the privilege of sleeping with someone who, in the real world, I wouldn't have a snowball's chance of being with otherwise. That being said, I guess I want her to be as attractive as possible.
It leave most women with stretch marks. I've had stretch marks on my hips since I was 11 years old. Sorry man, but it's just a part of life. Good luck finding a woman who has *no* stretch marks anywhere on her body.
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I just came back from a funeral, where a 2 year old girl died of a virus in heart, and I see this thread..