This came up in my last thread and I'm wondering how many (if any) have gone on a "off the clock, real date" with a provider (ATF)???

This could also be a possible scenario for me to put out their IF I decide to ask her.

It is intended to produce more "for money" dates later.  It just makes good business sense.  

However, it is unethical for a lady to do this if she knows perfectly well that the guy will misinterpet it as being more than it is.

No offense meant but when will guys smarten up and realize that it's a business.  If a lady makes you feel great, you click and you have good chemistry it means she's a good provider and is doing her job well. It does not mean she wants to date you and/or screw you for free.

Yes there is the occasional exception but when/if this exception occurs you will most likely have absolutely no doubt about it. If she doesn't make it abundantly clear that she wants to take it off the clock then chances are she doesn't.  There shouldn't be this "should i ask her out" dance.

One was a serious OK lets not exchange the moolah anymore, I like you, sex somewhat OK, you can't afford it, fine. Fantastic snuggle partner. (*sigh*) No more dates. Subsequently he has seen many providers, but was too busy to see me. No shit! I kid you not.  I am still stunned. Color me burned?

Second was gotta meet you, but no sex. Dinner. That was all. I was free and touring and hungry so I thought...what the heck. No more e-mails, well maybe an occasional check in, but nothing romantic. It was like meeting a pen pal.

Ditto for the third, (one dinner, no sex) but we still chat. Friends. I am not his type, but I intrigue him and I need friends to keep my head straight and he amuses me. Witty as fuck. Besides, we have the same taste in women. He is trying to hook me up with a couple.   : D

I have kept in contact with clients that can no longer hobby due to their various reasons.

Frankly, I like the random fuck a girl from the bar thing but that is just me. It is too dangerous to be dating off the clock. Messy. Pisses off clients if they find out. I would love to meet someone wonderful and dance off into the sunset but not right now. I am having way to much fun. I like my solitude.

I hate to break it it to ya, but not many girls are going to want to do that, and if they do, they usually will use and abuse you.

Time=money
money=time

Anything else is a relationship or a poor excuse for one. Capish?

When ever you put boys and girls together, there's always going to be a certain amount of emotion involve, it takes years for us guys to understand the difference between love and lust.

Your honesty is only exceeded by your wit and insight.

Please, please, read all the misery guys are going through from getting suckered!  I can't believe all the incidences of such that I've read in these boards over the last 72 hours alone.

Remember:  The idea of this hobby is to have a detached, non-committed rendezvous.  

If you want a relationship, go to an online dating service instead.

Yes, absolutely.  Twice.  It's complicated.  And it's got to be completely mutual.  

In one case, the monetary aspects were completely removed and we have since spent a bunch of time together, sometimes platonically and sometimes tumbling back into bed.  The bottom line is we do enjoy each other's company, there's no mystery about what she does, and what the hell, we both have fun.  As I would on any civilian date, I pick up the checks.  

The other is intriuging.  I still book her, but we have spent time off the books hanging out, having dinner, enjoying life.  Sometimes at the end of a day we've gone to bed on the books, sometimes we've just headed back to our separate lives.  This may never change, but I'm not looking to make it so.  I value the time I spend with her in either world.  

In both cases I consider myself very luck to have met these women.

but will add that when we all decided to mix commerce and passion, part of the price we paid was that "dating" was not going to happen.  If you want a girlfriend, you need to leave the rebel base and return to space controlled by the Empire, i.e. civilian dating.

I get together with an ATF on a semi-regular basis for non-hobby related activities. It can be as simple as lunch or elaborate as a gallery opening and dinner. If one of us sees or notices something that we'd both enjoy, we make plans.

The thing that's different about her is that we're really good friends. We communicate really well, don't take each other for granted, and have similar interests and tastes. It is a friendship/relationship based on affection, openness, and respect.

In the past on occasion I have taken a couple of ATF's out to dinner off of the clock.  By that I mean the time for dinner was uncompensated and the after dinner activities were on the clock and paid for.  Nobody confused the dinner to be the beginning of any new civilian relationship.  In today's environment this is less likely to happen with many of the ladies.  Many of the ladies have posted rates for dinner dates on their website.  In those cases I would not even think about asking for an off the clock dinner unless the lady made the suggestion because she has already given you her answer on her website.  And that answer is pay me.

For your next lesson write on a blackboard 100 times "It is all about the money".

-- Modified on 9/14/2004 3:24:04 AM

you will phase through the head change. Prepare for a trip from the magic kingdom of your fantasies and your needs to the brave new world of shared interests and equal time. It's all about balance. Do you have anything to talk about ? Do you have the same attitudes ? Do you tend to think about the same stuff ? Are you genuinely comfortable in her presence when she drops the high priced facade ? Are you confortable in your own skin when you let down some of your own barriers ? Assuming yes to the above, you can have a marvellous time, especially when you discover some fascinating inner dimensions that you didn't suspect were there...

Although I've had a couple invitiations (must be perceived as a soft touch, smile)I've done the off the clock thing once.  It was with a wonderful lady I had known and seen, comercially shall we say, for approx 2 years.  Sex was great that night, but I found next time I saw her on the clock, that somehow, the perception was created that we had changed the nature of our relationship in a way I did not care to, given i'm married.  Despite the best of intentions and promises before our date, it actually had changed things irrevocably.  My mistake.

I saw a provider a couple of times –and we found we had lots in common and enjoyed each other’s company – the experience everyone should get with a quality provider.

However –it was something more - and like any 2 other ‘normal’ people we started seeing each other on a regular basis. I never paid to see her again (or anyone else) and we’ve been living together happily for 2 years.

I can see your question from both sides – yes I was attracted – I asked ,dated, and yes it worked out, I wasn’t fooled or ripped off (despite all the advice I’m sure you’ll get to the contrary), and I can accept the job.

OTOH I’ve read mails and chatted to her about this – at any one time there are 3 or 4 guys who mistake her professional provider attitude in being friendly etc. as something more and suggest ‘time off the clock’, ‘hanging out together’, or suggest as ‘lunch’ friends. Some she genuinely cares about as friends – but all would be lost in the business sense – and possibly as  ‘friends’ if she told them she had a SO and wasn’t interested – or simply wasn’t interested in them period (in any other way). So – she excuses herself. Guys either accept that or they don’t. There may be providers who are looking to take advantage in such a situation – but I’m sure most wouldn’t.

Think about why you’re asking her out, and if its anything other than a desire to get to know her better then don’t do it. If she says yes – then take it very slow. If she says no – then accept there may be many reasons her for doing so – and don’t get wound up by it.

Date? By this do you mean dinner and then sex?

No I have not done it.

Would I? There are several women that I have met here on TER that I would LOVE to go out with. Not really for the sex, but because I think they would be a total blast and are excellent human beings. I guess it would be for their mind that I would want to see them. LoL Several I would love to be helped by and some I'd love to help. So Yes I would.

I was supposed to meet a provider for dinner and maybe drinks once, but because of the last minuteness of the final plans, I was unable to go. I suppose by that I may have lost a potential friend.

Are you willing to gamble on the outcome? I may have lost a friend and may also have lost her as a provider. It was something I did not think about well enough when I said yes. Hopefully you can learn from my mistake. Good luck.

Look at the facts. Most (good) providers are over the age of 30. this means they have reached the point in life where if they are not dependant on a mans income AND/OR their sexual needs are well taken care of they simply don't need a man. Dating infers that you are "Looking" for "A" man or "A" woman. Although I have had several breakfasts, lunches, dinners, movies etc with providers off the clock I can't actually call them "Dates". They were more like basic friendship/companionship.
  Every once in a great while "love" will strike between a provider and her client. As Cycical as I am my heart still sings when I here of such things. For the rest of us though we must look at this hobby as at best a "dating club" where the date is always "successful" and just maybe a new friendship could be made.

  Cm.

Badabing!

Badabing!

Talk about al dente?

Badabing!

I hit it off with a provider and we definitely spent a lot of time together on "personal time".  It changed the whole relationship, so the client side ended.  The physical part was raw and full of energy.  We enjoyed each other's company as friends and used each other to "blow off some steam".  It was not a relationship that either of us saw having a true future, but it was a lot of fun while it lasted.  

As a rule, I have since made a point not to do this, but I have been tempted.  Traveling ladies sometimes look for things to do and people to explore with while in town.  It is very rare, but at times I will still play.  

The positives can be unlimited play, the negatives can be that it is the end of play when you want to.  In other words, she has to pay her bills and if you are not paying, then she works in clients to make her bills.  

It is a very strange thing, not a relationship I would recommend.

If this is a viable scenario for you with someone because you two hit it off that well, it is best that the lady bring it up.  You can put out a feeler...like saying that you would enjoy doing something together or making her dinner or something...but otherwise, leave it to her to suggest anything further.  Understand, a good provider hears this offing all the time.  If she really likes you enough to do it, she knows you will likely be interested, and will ask you herself.

If she wants to see you "off the clock" she will make it known to you. I recently had a provider ask if I wanted to "hang out" at her place on the weekend, but my situation is such I had to say "no." (darn it!)

If it happens, let her initiate.

my two cents...

It was as "friends" --- no sexual stuff implied or sought after.  Just two people going out for dinner.  I have gone out to dinner with other vendors, why not one I actually like?

-Hoot.

Yes I have... it was very nice actually... I did meet her first as client/provider.... we somehow clicked... my visit turned into 2 hours when it was supposed to be 1 and I had to leave only because of another client arriving... she asked me to come back after he left and stay the night... I couldn't as I had to be up early for work... she took my number down and I honestly thought she wouldn't call... it was on a monday that we had our appointment... on Friday she called and wanted to see me for Dinner... she kept on mentioning that this was a "real date" and she isn't "working"

We went to a really nice place... we had a great time... I spent the night with her and we did have sex and it was great... we stayed up all night talking and in the morning I took her to the airport and she went home...

We see each other about once a month... we enjoy "swinging" so I think that is the reason we don't have odd issues about how we met or the fact that she still works in the industry...

Is this something that will lead to anything other than us enjoying time with each other??? I donno only time will tell and I honestly think that because we take one day at a time and we aren't "clingy" it is fun...

But that is just me I guess...

PA