Am I a moron? I am not  a frequent hobbyist but I am a long time hobbyist (25+ years). I'm a long time hobby board reader, and member here for ten years as well as a few other sites.  I have read hundreds of posts about never loaning money to a provider. So I should know better, but I just did the unthinkable
A provider friend emailed me and said business was slow, and she ran into some problems and hated to ask but would she be able to borrow some money from me. She offered to pay me back with interest or work it off (offering double her time for the amount I would be loaning her) I said no problem, and we worked out a way to send her the money. It was hundreds, not thousands. It was an amount I would be comfortable losing gambling or something like that. I have never been asked by a provider before. And even knowing what I know, I didn't hesitate to say yes. I have loaned money in the past to family and friends (another no no usually.). Sometimes I have gotten it back, and then some. Sometimes it was a total loss, and sometimes I got some of it back, but not all. Whenever I have loaned out money like that, it has been something I would be able to lose, and not expect it back.  Somehow I have a feeling this provider will come through, but I guess time will tell.

Flame me if you want, but:
I guess I am turning this into a few questions (And Phil, I apologize in advance for the stupid questions)
Hobbyists, have you loaned out money to providers and received it back (in payment or service)?
Would you loan out money if asked by a certain provider?
Providers, have you ever been in a position to ask a client to borrow money? (use aliases)
How does someone who makes 300 or more per hour, get into this position in the first place?

I have a few answers myself for the last question. Some obvious ones, such as: Poor spending habits, poor saving habits, drugs, or unexpected expenses (medical, mechanical, etc. However these could tie back to poor saving habits). Could there be other not so bad reasons, such as she is thrifty and saves but all her money is tied up in some not so liquid assets, and she just needs some cash for immediate expenses? I guess this is my "wishful thinking" reason.

They have a failure to pay rate similar to the general population with no collateral.

 The trick to successful lending is charge enough interest to everyone the returns exceed the losses.

 In other words, treat them all like the Pawn shop would.

I have loaned money to prostitutes.  Hundreds of dollars, several times.  In some cases I got it back.  In other cases I never saw a penny again.  So based on my experience, I have no idea how it will work out for you.

But why does her being a prostitute have anything to do with it?  It shouldn't.  If she doesn't pay you back, and want your money back, then take her to small claims court.  Loaning her money is perfectly legal, and you have legal avenues for getting it back if she doesn't pay.  Don't lose your common sense just because she's a hooker.

So should everyone loan money to the next hooker that asks?  I guess it depends.  It's nice to trust people.  But also consider whether you would otherwise loan money to someone you've only spent a few hours with, have little or no real verifiable information on, and is a professional criminal.  And if she doesn't pay you back, ask yourself whether you can easily explain to friends & family when you go to court why you loaned her money in the first place.

Be generous.  But like I said:  Don't lose your common sense just because she's a hooker.

Posted By: bank_of_hookerville

Am I a moron? I am not  a frequent hobbyist but I am a long time hobbyist (25+ years). I'm a long time hobby board reader, and member here for ten years as well as a few other sites.  I have read hundreds of posts about never loaning money to a provider. So I should know better, but I just did the unthinkable
A provider friend emailed me and said business was slow, and she ran into some problems and hated to ask but would she be able to borrow some money from me. She offered to pay me back with interest or work it off (offering double her time for the amount I would be loaning her) I said no problem, and we worked out a way to send her the money. It was hundreds, not thousands. It was an amount I would be comfortable losing gambling or something like that. I have never been asked by a provider before. And even knowing what I know, I didn't hesitate to say yes. I have loaned money in the past to family and friends (another no no usually.). Sometimes I have gotten it back, and then some. Sometimes it was a total loss, and sometimes I got some of it back, but not all. Whenever I have loaned out money like that, it has been something I would be able to lose, and not expect it back.  Somehow I have a feeling this provider will come through, but I guess time will tell.

Flame me if you want, but:
I guess I am turning this into a few questions (And Phil, I apologize in advance for the stupid questions)
Hobbyists, have you loaned out money to providers and received it back (in payment or service)?
Would you loan out money if asked by a certain provider?
Providers, have you ever been in a position to ask a client to borrow money? (use aliases)
How does someone who makes 300 or more per hour, get into this position in the first place?

I have a few answers myself for the last question. Some obvious ones, such as: Poor spending habits, poor saving habits, drugs, or unexpected expenses (medical, mechanical, etc. However these could tie back to poor saving habits). Could there be other not so bad reasons, such as she is thrifty and saves but all her money is tied up in some not so liquid assets, and she just needs some cash for immediate expenses? I guess this is my "wishful thinking" reason.

Your answer is spot on.  So what if she's a hooker, or a Mom, or the next door neighbor.  If he "loans" her $ 500 he damn well should consider it lost (as he did with his family/friends).  But why not have her sign a promissory note...at least if he wanted to try and enforce this, it would be helpful.

Enforcing this in "small claims" should be pretty easy and straightforward.  But even with a judgement, how in the hell is he going to get her to pay up?  Then he needs to get into asset discovery and bank liens (assuming she has a bank account).  Perhaps he can sieze her shoes that haven't been worn yet

And just to solidify the OP's last question...that's why most small businesses fail early on.  The self employed person has no concept on how to budget.  And this is pervasive in all types of small business.

doesnt go out the window just because a gal chooses to give pleasure as an occupation. Just as the banker or school teacher arent necessarily honest.  It is true that most in this profession have double lives, but not all.  I find that I dont lie very well even when its probably prudent.  But I have borrowed some money from clients and have made payment and I have seen a few clients and waited to get payment.  I have also not completely paid someone for something but not because I blew him off and we have come to an agreement.  
To me, being true to your word matters in any walk of life.  If you say it, then do it.  I truely hope you turn out to have loaned it to someone who will do the right thing. But I also have seen a lot of gals take advantage of the men they meet in this biz.  Its a sad fact that alot of nice men are taken by unsavory ladies and alot of good hearted ladies are ripped off by creeps.  
And I dont make 300 an hour but even if I did, I dont work but once, in a rare time twice a day and many times I dont work for days at a time.  And I am completely irresponsible with money.  In any cash business it is much more difficult to do things the way you do when you receive a paycheck twice a month.  Not saying its a given but ...
And I hate to bring this up but a lot of women in this business support alot more than just themselves.  Not meaning, but that too, a "manager", but family, boyfriends (who can sometimes be bums) and I have notice  that my money isnt considered the same as the money from friends in civi jobs.  Like they dont think twice about having me foot the bill...since I dont really "work" for my money.  Which is silly, the hour I am with you may be all fun times but there are many hours of bs that we dont make any money at.  
Anyways, I hope that may have gave you some insights to "wheres the money go?" .
I am crossing my fingers for you.  Not so much for the monetary reason but for the goodwill feeling. Its nice when people are nice.

i loaned my ATF money and she paid me back with free visits

And pawn shops loan money?  One of the biggest rackets is the car title loan places (loans with car titles as colleteral).  Poor people get fucked in a lot of ways.

It is people that don't plan for emergencies and budget their money that get fucked good income or not. I know a man that working at Walmart and McDonald's saved enough money to start a business cash in a year and a half. Then grew that business to be worth millions and not once did he have to take out a payday, pawn or title loan.

I know anther man that makes six figures that had his car and house repossessed, losing all his equity in them, because he live off of debt and fail to plan for a small cut of less then 10% of his pay.

It isn't the poor that get fucked it is the stupid that fail to live on a budget, fail to avoid unnecessary debt, and fail to save for emergencies that get fucked. I will admit it easier to do those things making $500,000 then it is at $20,000 but I seen enough people avoid such scams making $20,000 or less to know it can be done.

Yes pawn shops loan money, much like title loan companies using items of value as collateral. If you pay your loan you get your item back, if not the pawn shop keeps it and sells it as payment. Interest rates are killer just like title loans.

P.S. I have given loans (of amounts I was willing to lose), and they have been better at paying it back then family.

I did the 'Loan Advance' and was also in the 'hundreds'.  I justified it to myself, because the provider was going to pay the bail bondsman or she'd go to jail.   She was my regular, but she was in a felony case.  I expected that when we did our next session, I would get paid by spending a longer time with her, but didn't.  I got pissed. The next session, I gave her donation in the parking lot to get a room, and she ran off with it.  She was very good at first, and then I saw her 'other side'.  She got caught again and now servicing her jail sentence until March 2012.

I lent the second provider I saw $200.  Never got it back. Never asked.  Not really surprised.  I think if I had asked I would have received a discount on services.  

I would certainly lend my current ATF money, but would be shocked if she ever asked.  I  can afford certain losses st this stage of my life, and would prefer getting burned occasionally to becoming someone I'm not.  

I give my customers/clients a certain amount of credit.  Sometimes I get burned by one of them, but I have found that people generally want to feel like they are honest.  

I do not know if providers might be less trustworthy than the general population.  I would suspect so, at the lower price points.  I would also think that aspects of the business would require any lady to be at least somewhat cynical about those she meets.  But I'm a relative newbie, and understand the limits of my knowledge.

I didn't say it very clearly but the juice on title loans is exorbitant.  And it's mainly poor people taking those loans.  Kind of pisses me off they have fm djs pimping the title commercials on the radio.  They prey on poor folks.  But that's me going on a soapbox.  It is what it is though.  Can't keep dumb people both poor and not poor from making some dumb financial moves.

Seriously...  once the lady crosses over to civvy friendship I treat them like any other friend... which means I never lend money cuz I never got it back when I lent it to a broke civvy friend.

Of course that is my rule I try to stick to: never mix friends with money.  Disaster.  But sometimes there are friends who fall into the 'life long friends' category, or shows potential to be one.  When such a friend needs something and I know she's a good person who isn't trying to milk me (i wouldn't mind that if it was in the literal sense lol), what's few bucks?   If she needs help other than $, such as mental therapy, drug rehab... well that kind of thing isn't something I wish to deal with and I most likely don't associate with such crowd but if she already was a good friend then I try hard to get her some help.

Have I done it? Yes.  She was pretty and sweet not to. lol  Yeah guys like me have a weakness for hot young babes but she was upfront and honest about everything. She did pay it back in full.  But I quickly lost an order of magnitude more $ after we went out a bit. lol

I loaned money to a provider several times. She paid me back every time. Usually in less than a week. The most was $500.
Loaned to two strippers. One never paid me back. Never did it again for her. The other paid me back about half. These were never more than a few hundred dollars. I knew with the provider she was good for it. The other two, I was prepared to lose it. Glad I didn't lose it all.

You may get it back. You may not. Don't beat yourself up about it. I'd never loan big money, like you said keep it to what you can afford to lose if it happens.

Side two same story,  I also loaned money to a provider who was arrested on a soliciting charge  but I was fortunately enough to get paid back 5 times that amount in sex.  I mean she went all out, but I wasn't really expecting all that and would have helped her regardless because her circumstances were pretty dire.  I've loaned money to many family and friends throughout my life but I only give with the expectation of not getting it back.   If you can't afford to do that then it's best you not go down that road again.  In my case she was my number uno ATF and a really sweet person as well.   Why do we vilify provides anyway they are not all conniving and out to get the best of you but you must always be careful and watch out for the sucker punch.

In my case I now consider her a friend with benefits and not necessarily a provider and we are still in touch with one another.  On the other hand I wouldn't do this for just anyone but in her case the decision to help was much easier because we actually enjoy each other company outside of the bedroom which in this business gotta be pretty rare,  I happy to report that she was able to beat the charge and have the record exponged but she is now emotionally damaged from the experience.   If I had not helped her I believe she would not have recovered.

So use a lot of common sense and discretion next time and consider loans only if you can really afford it and the provider is at the very least a trust worthy ATF.   Remember common sense should rule the day

I have on occassion helped to bail out a friend of mine who is a touring Escort. She has been stuck in a city and short on cash and I have deposited money into her bank account for planes, trains and automobiles.

The money goes towards future dates and she has always delivered....sometimes it takes awhile due to scheduling issues....but she is always more that generous with her time to pay me back.

I do not do this with everyone....Only those ladies that I have a personal and well as a professional relationship with. I run the same risk in loaning money to any friend of mine regardless of their profession.

I heard a great perspective on loaning people money, no matter what they do for a living.

You are not loaning, but GIVING them the money.  If you get it back then you received a gift in return but in most cases you just gave them the money.

Remember, you don't loan people money, you give it to them.  Don't expect to ever see it back and you will not be disappointed.

And in all cases I looked at it as a gift to help out a gal whom I really cared about.

I'd say that in 75% of the cases, I got back everything with interest - and yes, it was all in trade.

The other 25%, I just don't bother to think about, and that is that.

Sometimes the outcome is good and other times not so.  Most of the time it has been fine.

One provider came here with her sister to NYC for her first trip.  She did the budget thing on her hotels, and ended up being in a situation where they were gonna get thrown out because she didn't bring her credit cards and instead used her debit card.  The hotel must have swiped it a few times or something, but the bank she had basically froze her card.  Long story short, I fronted her the 400.  She was gonna work it off that night in a session (that was her hourly rate), but the three of us (me, her sister, and her) went out, got hammered, and then that didn't happen.

She offered to send me money but since I travel out her way we agreed to do future session there.  Which is fine, because we have been in communication.  I will see her in January.  That will probably turn out good.  She was good in our first session (we had one before the money issues), and she let me do Greek without the upcharge, so I know she is cool.

Another time I lent a masseuse some money, but I got her bank account info and her name in order to deposit the money.  To this day she avoids me, so that one was a loss.  But she still knows I have her personal info, even though I would never threaten her.  It was just me choosing poorly.  Lesson learned.

Thanks for chiming in. You have some good points. And you didn't even use an alias. I was hoping for some other providers to answer. If this lady does pay me back in time instead of money and makes good on her promise, I will have earned 100% interest. I have faith in her that she will make good, but that is not why I gave it to her. I gave it to her because I felt that if she was at a point that she had to ask, then she must have really needed it. If I don't get it back, so be it. It is money I could afford to lose, like I mentioned in my op. I never asked her why she needed it. I was helping a friend in need and if I don't get it back, it was a gift.

Let's meet the plaintiff, John Jones, a hobbbyist. And the defendant, Sherri Smith, a sex provider. Jones claims that he loaned Smith, $$$ in return for future sexual favors. Smith claims "It was a gift."   LOL, that would be a funny case.

You are right. It doesn't make a difference if she is a hooker, or a mom or the neighbor. She is a "friend" and I have loaned money to other friends. Some I got back. Some I didn't. Never did a promisary note with any or them. I'm not doing one with her. It is money I can afford to lose, and if I don't get it back, it was a gift. (Way smaller by the way than the gifts talked about in the thread a few spots up).

I was just trying to get a feel from other peoples perspectives, from people who did this or would do this. I wasn't lookig for advice whether I should do it or not. I already did it anyway. I actually expected to get bashed on this thread, but I got a lot of good feedback. Yours included.

Yes in my case, she is an atf, and a sweet person and we enjoy each other's company outside the bedroom. I would not do this for just anybody. I have done it for some friends and family, always with the expectation I may never get it back, and in an amount I could afford to lose. Nice to hear your happy ending. Thanks for the feedback.

Maybe my subject line of doing the unthinkable,and calling myself a moron in the first sentence sounds like I am beating myself up. LOL It was more tongue in cheek though. It's just that I have seen so many negative posts on this topic in the past, and I went ahead and did it anyway. But lots of positive feedback in this thread. Thank you for yours.

At least you were right in mentally preparing yourself for a loss.
Hopefully the lady will keep her word.

Do understand that if a person is in such financial trouble that they are willing to
go to a friend for money, that they may not be in a position to pay you back in
a quick or steady manner.

For now just be patient and try to trust in her.

As for your questions on how this could have happened to her.
She may have taken for granted a certain level of income but suddenly suffered an unforeseen
drop that she mistook for temporary. Most people don't have more than 4 months worth of bills
saved up. I personally used to think 10 was good, but now I'm moving closer to 16.

Another possibility is that she dumped a bunch of money into some green-tech firm somewhere :>

Thank you for your brilliant answer

Actually I am surprised, I received a lot of good feedback. I expected to get bashed and get a lot of stupid answers, but amazingly, I didn't. My point in making the post was to get some input as to what other people thought, especially those who have loaned out money, and to hopefully get some provider's prospectives. (but only got only got one of those)

I also wanted to point out how, even with years as a hobbyist and reading numerous posts on the topic, (mostly negative) I didn't hesitate to say yes. When she asked, I answered without hesitation, "how do you want to me to get it to you?"

You're right, it shouldn't matter if she is a prostitute or a school techer or anything else. She is a person, and loaning money to any person, several things can happen. It is a gamble. I have the possibility of losing it all, but I have a reasonable expectation that I will get it all back.
No I won't take her to small claims court if I don't get paid back. I can afford the loss, and I realize there is a very possible option of never seeing it again. Of course I hope she makes good on it, for the sake of our friendship, and my faith and trust in people. I don't think I am about to lose my common sense, and no I won't give money to any hooker (or any person ) who asks. By the way, I have spent more than just a few hours with this person and I do have a lot of verifyable information on her. Thanks for your common sense and well thought out reply.

The lady made good on her promises, and all is well.  The second time, with someone else...she's cancelled a half dozen times, with an NCNS thrown in for good measure.  That lady is a flake, though, and will probably make good on it eventually...

The third time I was asked to pre-pay...flat-out refused.  Pay as you go is the only way to go...will never make that mistake again!