It's so easy to do things wrong, and so hard to do them right. We need to be easy on ourselves. Believe me I know because I've been in that spot many times.
Why do all the good foods make us ill, why do the healthy ones taste like broccolli?
It's as if the universe was set up to make it easy to fail.
Hobbying is no different. Take heart that you tried to do good and simply needed to know better. You can learn and improve.
if you decide whores aren't for you and you stay in the hobby. some men ARE stupid. hell most for that matter. some will pay for pussy before they pay their mortgage. i know many men who feel they have hookers for friends. the poor saps. i hate broccoli. i love whores who have enough brainwave to utilize proper business methodology. some wouldn't know discretion if they sucked it's dick.
...but that first sentence hit the nail squarely on the head. Bravo.
What the hell did you do? Aside from inquiring minds, maybe their is a lesson for the rest of us.
Well, I didn't loan money - directly. But I offered my time to do things for her (fix things, etc), and I never got compensated for my time. Had sessions where we just talked, because things were stressful.
Yes, I'm an idiot. I know this now. And I don't blame her - I did it all on my own, with my own free will. So, no knock on providers here. This was ALL me.
And you aren't an "idiot". You made the "mistake" (I'll leave that to each individual to define) of being a "nice guy".
The PLUS in the situation is that you recognize and own your place in it. Not blaming her for using you, taking advantage, etc....but knowing that it was choices that you made.
Now just don't make the mistake of swinging the pendulum in the other direction and become cynical and jaded. You'll also have lessons to be learned if you believe that "they" are all manipulative bitches.
Don't ever expect anyone, provider or not, to remember and recognize the value or importance of loans...be it time or money.
The civie world doesn't have a specific name for it...but in this world...it's considered a "gift".
Give it time, find a hot one you like, and have great sex.
+1000
This really has nothing to do with P4P. It's typical human behavior. Decent folks recognize the value of generosity and somehow manage to recompense.
At least giving your time to help her out. Gee, that maybe makes you a nice person. I assume you help your neighbors out from time to time. Certainly there is an element of "to what degree did you help"... and you did mention "talking sessions" which I assume were paid for (that part would qualify as dumb if the stress were on her part and she wanted to chat).
Personally, I know several providers I might help with my time, and with no expectation of anything in return (even a thank you). Now, that said, if there is no acknowledgement of the effort then that is noted in the consideration of the other person's character. Not that I would never help them again, but it does go into the equation.
Sounds like you have learned and come away more aware of the parameters and boundary issues in a P4P relationship, and that is a good thing.
how many times have you heard from whores on this very board about how fucking precious their time is to them? this is business; or as some have inferred, ass kissing.
It isn't good or bad. What ameliorates the OPs level of stupidity, IMO, is his recognition of his part in the drama. A concept I imagine you are blissfully unaware of.
Lent a provider money and NEVER got it back. She was in dire need and swore she would get it back ASAP.
WRONG!
I will have the last laugh though, because I always tend to.
Bwahahahaha!
One thing to keep in mind is that the dynamic you are describing of one-sided contribution is not at all limited to the hobby.
The world is full of people who either seek a free lunch (and as a young republican you should know this) or who somehow feel entitled to the efforts of others with only their own wonderfulness as recompense.
Usually, such vampires are easily spotted.
But it becomes more difficult in circumstances where sex is involved; because nature very cleverly created a biochemical cocktail that would make us emphasize the virtues and de-emphasize the faults of women with whom we experience orgasm. This is nature's way of trying to entice us to have even more sex with them, ultimately leading to procreation and bonding, etc. As we are a product of divergent evolution for millions of years, and money as we know it has only existed for many of us for a few hundred (peasants had little use for money), the fact that money is involved doesn't change the biology.
Obviously, a provider is in a position to learn a lot about men. Knowledge is a wonderful tool and in and of itself has no moral import. Depending upon the provider's character, that knowledge can be used for weal ... or woe.
And this is a point I wanted to make. The issue is NOT with "providers." Many providers are unfailingly ethical and would never use the knowledge they have for hurting anyone; and any friendships developed with them are genuine and reciprocal in nature.
The fact that some providers exist whose character is such that they will misuse their knowledge to become vampires shouldn't be used to paint all providers with that brush.
Rather, one should merely be cautious and withhold judgment of providers until AFTER the biochemical cocktail has worn off a bit. And they should be judged in the same way you would judge any other person with whom you share something in common and desires friendship.
However, once a vampire has been identified; one should immediately divest onself of the association with said creature of darkness. Life is too precious to allow parasites unfettered access.
I fell into the same "pit" and I'll be paying for it the rest of my life. For years and years I always laughed at guys that I knew who found certain women's sexual prowess irresistable even to point of wrecking their marriages. I vowed that would never happen to me, but boy was I wrong. There's this certain girl that just rocks me to my core and I'm afraid I'm ruined for life.
"Should have known better" and "Live and learn" are the things that come to mind.
Good luck!
Posted By: youngrepublican
There's just something about pussy that can make some of us men (read, MOI) do some really stupid things. We fall in love, or give money, or more. Stupid things. Man, if they could make broccoli have the power of pussy, I'd be one fit motherf*****.
I can see that there's a fine line between being a provider's friend, and being a complete dumbass, and I'm beginning to see that I'm the latter, not the former. Maybe some guys just aren't cut out for this hobby, but I'll be damned if I continue to be such a dumbass.
-- Modified on 10/13/2010 7:34:55 AM
I given money to hobby,,but i've given WAY more, to help people out!(yes,some of those people were providers) One provider i never even met!!
Hell,i'm damn near broke now,without a job!!!
So,,give yourself a break!
How about we both stop, being "Dumbasses"
Posted By: youngrepublican
There's just something about pussy that can make some of us men (read, MOI) do some really stupid things. We fall in love, or give money, or more. Stupid things. Man, if they could make broccoli have the power of pussy, I'd be one fit motherf*****.
I can see that there's a fine line between being a provider's friend, and being a complete dumbass, and I'm beginning to see that I'm the latter, not the former. Maybe some guys just aren't cut out for this hobby, but I'll be damned if I continue to be such a dumbass.
-- Modified on 10/13/2010 7:34:55 AM
You are a certified dumbass. rofl
I believe there is hope for the OPD (original postind dumbass), but you are beyond all hope.
So now you have proven that you are not only an ass kissing sap, but a stupid one at that.
Life is not about winning in every business transactions.
I've had some time to read the responses, and calm down a bit.
First and foremost, I realize that I can't paint all providers as vampires. I've met a few that would use you for everything you'd give them, and they are fairly recognizable. Let me reiterate, however, that in this case, I blame no one but myself. She didn't ask me for the things I did; rather, I freely gave them. I believe that over time (several years), she came to know my generosity. She never asked for it.
This doesn't just apply to P4P, either. Several are correct, that this could - and does - happen in the civvie world. I guess my point is, as I believe Johngaltnh stated, that when sex is involved, there is an inherent instinct to bond. Depending on the people involved and the situation, sometimes this instinct can be easily overcome. With other providers, it was easy for me. But she...well, let's just say that she fulfilled me in many ways, which influenced my perception. I began to do things I probably shouldn't have, because if there were no recompense for a significant amount of time, I'd feel used.
But this is my fault. I should learn from it. Put your time and effort into someone who can reciprocate.
Lessons learned,
-YR
-- Modified on 10/13/2010 11:47:50 AM
To look at your part in the situation and to fix what you can (yourself) and not what you cannot (others).
I jest about political leanings, but never about what it takes to be a good and wise person.
Posted By: youngrepublican
But this is my fault. I should learn from it. Put your time and effort into someone who can reciprocate.
It sounds like you feel that there must be adequate reciprocation to justify doing someone a "favor." I have to say that to me, this attitude misses the entire point of giving. Sounds a bit too "Republican" to me.
When I do a favor for a friend, there is no expectation for anything beyond appreciation. One should never expect a favor done for a provider to have any impact on the business side of the relationship. It is far better for both parties to keep friendship and business as separate as possible.
I have a good friend (male and I'm not bi- or anything) that has a tendency to take advantage of me in ways similar to what you describe. Actually, he finally went too far recently, and we've had a bit of a falling out. Not the first time. Anyway, you know your personal tendencies as I do mine. We just need to watch ourselves, I guess. Maybe you should do what I did with my friend: Write an email detailing how you feel the relationship has been unfair and put her on hold, either permanently or at least until she responds favorably (in which case, you will really need to watch out for the same shit happening again)
Closest I ever came to being a "dumbass"... On 2 separate occasions I had massage providers contact me, in need of money, asking for a session. In both cases I scheduled time and had the sessions.
They contacted me by email, not phone, so no problems with that. I did feel somewhat used, because I didn't initiate the sessions. But I did get my d*ck jerked, so the sessions were as planned.
lots of good comments andadvice given. There is a dumb ass in all of us!! when it comes to women.....it is especially keen!!! I have lucked out in that I have a couple of friends that are providers and both are very sharp!!! one was the CFO of a my corporation (don't ask how I found out what she did for a "hobby"....... but she did it on my desk.....) live.......learn........love........learn........
Holly c**p. Now ther is a story I would love to hear.
Posted By: buzzdog99
lots of good comments andadvice given. There is a dumb ass in all of us!! when it comes to women.....it is especially keen!!! I have lucked out in that I have a couple of friends that are providers and both are very sharp!!! one was the CFO of a my corporation (don't ask how I found out what she did for a "hobby"....... but she did it on my desk.....) live.......learn........love........learn........
Maintain boundaries,
Maintain boundaries.
I have several providers I consider friends.
The key is establishing and respecting boundaries.
Simple isn't always easy, though.
