I agree Summer--the envelope is stupid. I'm not put off by girls counting the money. I don't mind starting to dress when time's up, or telling me it is about time. I consider clock watching checking the clock after 30 mins when I've paid for an hour. I don't like being pressured. To me 60 mins mean 60 mins and I don't expect more time unless someone tells me different.
It seems many providers (to include myself) are experiencing men who constantly talk about "clock-watching," as if that's not annoying in inself. Hey, you know what guys, this is still a business and that's why we have set hours. Many, many times I've gone WAY over the alloted time with someone and have said nothing about it and why? Because you guys make us feel bad about it. But lately it's becoming an hour-over the alloted time frame and not getting paid for it (or even tipped). That's CHEAP, CHEAP, CHEAP guys, especially when some of us are already offering specials right now. I've even dropped my prices this year in order to be more fair to friends out there that need a little extra pampering right now. But remember: You don't know what type of bills we have, what other appointments we are not taking because we fit you into that time slot and cannot (or in my case, refuse to see anyone else the same day). That means we lose money and feel taken advantage of regarding our personal time. Now, don't everyone get in a hissy-fit about this post! Not everyone does this, okay. This is only going out to those men who are doing this recently - and a lot. If you guys had to go to the dentist office, do you think you could tell the dentist, "Well, I'm sorry but I would like to sit in your chair for another hour and enjoy this anesthesia without being charged for it?" I think not! I was reluctant to bring this up, but I've been so distraught over not checking the donations until after I leave the hotel -- too trusting lately -- that it's left me less trusting (again) and less apt to go much over the time limit too. And if you don't think a lot of us are peeved about it, think again. I've gotten 10 emails from other ladies about this in the past two days. Wink!
Hugs,
Ciara
very true!! thank you for saying it.
some of the responses? Again, several providers emailed me about this. And guess what? I've got five more sitting in my email box that agree with me. But I guess some men really don't want to hear about this sort of thing. Again, people, don't shoot the messenger. Tee-he!
Hugs,
Ciara
CiaraPhx,
To avoid one hour overruns (OMG!!), when you are close to the end of the time the client has scheduled with you, and he still appears to be going strong(!) just say, 'We are just about at the end of the time you scheduled with me. Would you like to reserve more time with me now?' If he asks you how much that will be, just tell him, and if he asks you if you want him to get up and pay you for that now, say "YES". If he doesn't want to schedule more time and still doesn’t move to get up and end the session, you get up off the bed, turn all the lights on and ask him if he want to take a shower. All of this can be done sweetly and politely with a friendly smile on your face, without hurting anyone's feelings. Any questions?
Suzanne in San Diego
-- Modified on 12/13/2005 10:15:20 PM
Actually, I didn't put in my original post about being ripped off. It wasn't so much about not being able to tell the guy his time is up. It was about other providers' emails to me about expecting to get paid for two hours and then finding only enough cash for one hour in an envelope after they've left the appointment. This has happened to me, too. We were too trusting. The post was really more about men being more considerate and women being more careful. But thank you so much for your wonderful comments and taking the time to reply back to me. You're a sweetheart!
Hugs,
ciara
Thankfully, the very few times I have stayed over the hour or two were because we seemed to enjoy each other and maybe the chemistry was there... it does happen. As for the habitually over-stayers, ask them on their next appointment to bring you a gift card ($50 min.) from a store that would help you with your daily costs for living such as Home Depot or even if you need more lingeree... In that way, you are telling the person that while you are aware of the extra-time and if you want to get the same treatment, be considerate. I got this idea from a provider who I enjoy frequently and she let's me know when something is in disrepair or when she's needing some small items etc. Now, I bring her books, stockings, tolietries etc., just because. I think also, many guys don't carry lots of extra cash and your contribition is usually about the limit what they are carrying save for a few dollars for an emergency. So don't be afraid to ask. The whole Mars/Venus things is at work very often and whilst many of your suitors aren't necessarily cheap, they may require a hint now and again. The important thing is not to pressure them for "cash" so to speak. Most guys resent the dough you make (or the potential) and if hobbying comes as a real sacrifice for them, the constantcy of getting hit up for more only adds to the inadequacy that many may feel.
I wasn't talking about "regulars" whom I might see again. That would be handy for them, but quite honestly I wouldn't do this to regulars because they give me repeat business and generally they are not those that are doing these things. I've also never been good at asking for gifts. That's not my style. All the men that are new are told exactly what my donations are and I ask ahead of time how much time they'd like to spend with me, so they know how much to bring, darlin'. These incidents that I'm describing are coming from new clients. And yes, you're right. In these cases, I should have checked the envelope before I left -- I've been way too trusting.
Hugs,
Ciara
The envelope, in some markets, does not work. Thankfully in the OC that is so rarely an issue. Other cities it is just not the case.
The fact that people chose to use it for the case of class I can respect.......but come on people......this is what it is. I am not ashamed nor should my client be ashamed. It does not protect us from LE nor does it protect the client. It has become something that is a way for guys to be rip girls off.
Honestly, class belongs in a lot of places......but, not in my bedroom. That is and always will be a place to let one's hair down and be real for a few moments, a few hours, or even a few days. It is not a place to be anything but real.
I don't mean this to sound harsh....anything but that is my intention.......but, leave your money on the dresser, your clothes on the hanger and be the guy that no one else, in your world, allows you to be. We both have fun and we both win in life.
Why do we have to make this so difficult. This is about enjoyment of both individuals. I get so tired of hearing about guys and girls ripping one another off. Why? Why do people constantly need to take something fun and turn it into a crime against one another. Does it make people feel powerful to cheat one another? Talk about looking a gift horse in the mouth........It really isn't that difficult to make a winning situation out of what we are all sharing!
X's Summer
You might require that you be paid in large bills because they are easier to count and obviously can be passed easily without the need for a long counting session. A provider once told me about a guy who paid her in 1s and 5s...LOL It was all there, but sheesh... what planet did he drop in from?
-- Modified on 12/12/2005 8:34:13 AM
LE is actually asking banks to inform them of customers who ask for them and many banks are not carrying much in the way of them. The gov't may in fact do away with them because the assumption is that any legit business will use checks and credit cards for large transactions, and that only criminals will continue to use cash. I know of some providers who now take credit cards, and I prefer that.
too because they paid in cash for their ticket in advance. These are the only times I've been hassled at the airport. I guess they think I'm carrying something I shouldn't be. Just kidding! Okay, maybe I might have some toys with me. Wink!
Hugs,
Ciara
I agree Summer--the envelope is stupid. I'm not put off by girls counting the money. I don't mind starting to dress when time's up, or telling me it is about time. I consider clock watching checking the clock after 30 mins when I've paid for an hour. I don't like being pressured. To me 60 mins mean 60 mins and I don't expect more time unless someone tells me different.
I always allow for more time and usually give an extra 20 to 30 minutes. But "Times they are a changing."
Hugs,
Ciara
in case of LE, I always, say outloud "Oh, is this my birthday, Christmas, whatever card?" It could help if something goes to court and/or I'm being taped. Just a suggestion given to me by a few lawyers, but they could be wrong.
[[Most guys resent the dough you make (or the potential) and if hobbying comes as a real sacrifice for them, the constantcy of getting hit up for more only adds to the inadequacy that many may feel.]]
This goes to the whole M-F relationship, and women are easily as bad about it as men - the impersonal aspect of the hobby can minimize it, but it's always there, the issue of who wants what most. Almost all men in some time, way and degree want to get out & explore, and almost all women in some, way time & degree want somebody to protect/provide for them, and people can get real hostile about frustrated expectations - even if they can't tell you what they want because they haven't figured it out themselves.
A simpler way to describe upselling is simple frustration - especially guys like simple and reliable, and upselling will just piss them off.
-- Modified on 12/12/2005 9:02:21 AM
On how it's asked for. I have really great sessions and have been asked if I would like to stay over for awhile... if the chemistry is really good and "willie" is jumping at the chance, I have done it gladly. As you suggest, however, there is an air with many providers of the notion that we should tip or pay more than what was advertised for this "favor" or that. I suspect that these ladies won't be in the biz long anyway because they are the heartless types. You have to learn not to think with willie and perhaps not to make last minute dates. In my experience, those were the times I "paid" for almost nothing.
or you'd realize 10 other providers (very well-known and very popular) have emailed me about this problem. Don't put the blame on us by telling us we're upselling. None of these providers upsell, nor do I. That's insulting that you even make that remark about us. You have no idea what you're talking about. Didn't I mention in my original post, "For those men who don't do this, don't take this personally. It's not directed at you." This is exactly why many providers do not post to this board.
Hugs,
Ciara
I think it has a lot to do with a market niche - some might as well be metered, and others (which tend to be the TER market) are more trying to improve on the GF, at least by limiting liability.
But as I pointed out, a lot of it gets back to the primal M-F relationship - it's really hard to get too far from that.
I agree that thinking up gets the best results - but as with everything, if you think too much, you wind up in a mountaintop monastery.
you've never been with me. This post isn't about upselling. This is about a man knowing he has gone WAY over his limit. I've even reminded guys afterward (very politely) by saying, "Wow, we did go for two hours. Time flies when you're having fun, eh?" I always make sure that I tell someone before the date that if it goes over by an hour, then he owes me that and to please place it in the envelope, dresser, or wherever he chooses (in sight) afterward. Like I said before, I trusted these people because I DIDN'T WANT to make them feel like a transaction just happened but more like a GFE, so I didn't check the money until I got in the car. That was my fault, and I'll check it in the bathroom next time. But hey, like OC said, it's still about the business at the end. If you've ever met me, then you'd know I'm the last person who would upsell anyone, darlin'!
Hugs,
Ciara
strong suit - you may have been talking about yourself, but I wasn't.
If you WANT or NEED people to talk about you, I'll oblige - you're likely one of those who's best trying to swallow a ball gag, darlink! Wink!
I wasn't bashing you but telling you I'm one who doesn't upsell. My reading comprehension is fine, thank you. It's too bad you don't know me, you'd probably feel bad about what you've just said. Fortunately, I do not know you so I will not make assumptions about your character. That would show "lack of class."
Hugs,
Ciara
Lone and I got off on our own sidebar in the middle of your thread. This thinking does not reflect on what you are talking about.
than your partner. Like everyone, I guess we all respond too hastily at times when we feel talked about. Hey, you have to admit, you guys were talking about providers upselling and in my eyes after this post, it really sounded like you guys were talking about some of us on this board. I received five more emails and three of these ladies asked why you two were bashing me. So, you see it's not just me. That was the point of this post. Many providers feel this way. Sorry to be the messenger. Believe me, I'll keep quiet next time -- just like a good woman should be (barefoot and pregnant in the kitchen). Just kiddding!
Hugs,
Ciara
For those whom I have served way past the hour and enjoyed it, don't take this personally. This is obviously not meant for you. That is -- my regulars. But again, that's up to providers to decide if they want to stay past the hour and tell you not to worry about the extra donation, instead of a client asking for another hour and then the provider doesn't check her envelope until she leaves the hotel. Wink!
Hugs,
Ciara
I plan my appointments and run them on a very specific time frame in a very specific way. I am someone that does not do the date of "well lets start with an hour and see where it goes from there". I explain to the client that wishes to see me that I need to know what I'm going into time wise because it changes my routine completely. I have things to do with my day so I can't exactly say "wow, things are going great. Do you want to re-book for another hour". And, guys that is a huge upsale that you don't want either.
Now am I guilty of going overtime....Absolutely I am. But, I tend to do this for me. Maybe I am enjoying someone's conversation...so when the party comes to an end I suggest that we grab a bit to eat off the clock. My clients don't expect that to be the case the next time around. They take it for what it is and I expect nothing more.
I don't like when guys put this in a review...."she's not a clock watcher"......Guys be aware of what kind of signal this sends out, please. Other guys see that as overtime and take advantage of it. And, if they don't get it they shave points in the review. Sad but true. I know that your intentions are right when you say it and I'm flattered. Unfortunately though, there are some guys out there that expect more than what the agreed terms are.
I will say this to you Ciara and to other girls. If you spoil people by taking them beyond the boundries then it does change the boundries for them. That is only human nature. I have one girlfriend who doesn't see many of her own regulars if she can avoid doing so until she really needs them. The reason being is that she has really spoiled them and she would rather see a full rate client that isn't so spoiled than have to live up to what she has done to her regular clientele.
Honey it sounds like you've been recently burned a time or 2........and, you have every right to lash out. Guys do need to understand that we have needs as much as they do. We also have to find a way to conduct ourselves as professionals without seeming overly professional. So guys don't be offended if you pay for an hour and only get an hour. We may wish to hang out longer but you have no idea what our schedule of daily chores for that day might be. And, don't be offended if a girl counts her money. Everyone knows that I am a firm believer of sit it on the dresser without an envelope and speak not one word about it. I can see what it is. I can see that it's all there and we can just not worry about it from the start.
I miss the days of the ranch where buisness was handled up front. Everyone knew exactly what was going to happen and what it was going to cost. Done deal.......now let's play. Unfortunately, it doesn't work that way in this market place so we all need to try to be respectful of one another's needs and time.
As far as tipping. I never ever expect to be tipped. I work at a rate in a market place where most of my lunch clients hit the atm before seeing me. And, in a longer session I also don't expect it. My rate is my rate. I don't negotiate but at the same time I don't want to put someone on the spot of feeling the need to pay me extra if I go overtime........Again, going overtime is about me. It's about the fact that I am both needing and enjoying someone's company coupled with the fact that I happen to have some free time on my hands at that moment.
Ciara and other girls.....do beware of the guy who is concerned about clock watching. Especially, if it is something that you haven't been kicked for in your reviews. He will be exactly that guy who is spending all of his fun time watching the clock and making your job feel like a job. Some people just don't know how to let go, appreciate and be appreciated......and, they will be exactly the ones to kick you down in a review to add insult to injury.
Also, don't be part of the problem by feeling as though you need to let everyone go an hour overtime. If you do not respect your own boundries you can't expect anyone else to do it either.
Hugs back to you, Ciara. You cheer up and don't let this stuff get you down!
Big Kisses,
Summer
So very true. I hate it as well. I am not a clock watcher either.. I am a cD/ipod listener 
Always music on. My house its easy to keep track of time.. If its an hour session outcall.. I have a hour long cd playing, when its near its end.. I know when its time to start wrapping things up.. No pun intended Same for 2-3 hour appts.
After escorting for a long time, you build your own clock in your head and you pace out your appointments on your own. That is how I can keep track when I am incall..
Extra time is ok..If it goes over a little.. But if a girl is staying over the time..That is her choice. Dont expect a gift or a tip. If a girl enjoys the gents company.. That his gift to you.. Well mannered gentlemen.. ( we dont get many)
Ciara, getting shorted in donation ? That sucks.. Girlfriend, you should know better by now. I got laxed once too,until gents started coming over the border and started paying me in Canadian currency. Only to open the envelope and find 200 in Canadian, and not American.
Great post and thanks for sharing
Gees, people! Give me a break.
Hugs,
Ciara
to reduce/eliminate many of the unpleasant experiences by providers.Install a compact slot machine that automatically displays the amount fed by the gentleman.No envelopes,no words exchanged, no awkward feelings(just like the slot machines for stamps at the post office)If you fit it with a timer, the session begins with the funds' deposit followed at the end of the session by a loud buzz!This compact machine can also be used for outcalls......
PS I'm thinking of patenting the concept...lol
I pretty much forgot totally about the clock.
I would have loved to have tipped her, but truthfully, seeing her had completely cleaned me out. My pocket, my bank account, everything.
I've been making that up with her over the rest of the time, tipping her little by little, but you might say, I still know I haven't caught up.
I meant it to say guys should at least remember extra time given and seek to reward her.
A guy I was acquainted with to see a lady who usually *never* saw clients in her hometown. So, what did the ungrateful lout then do? He stayed forty-five minutes over the time after she clearly told him that she had a family function to get to. He wrote a review cluelessly giving that as a point of praise. I could picture him talking on and her getting totally uncomfortable and impatient. I know he didn't tip her.
-- Modified on 12/12/2005 10:54:06 PM
Re: another thread on dinner dates. I have found that booking multiple-hours (at least 4 for dinner)
makes this issue a bit easier to deal with as well. Of course financially and/or by preference this is not an option for everyone.
Of course, my take on this could be completely wrong, ladies?
1. A 50 minute cd. During last song, activity progressively declines.
2. Provider gets out of bed and slips into panties and bra while neatly putting client's clothes on the bed (hint, hint, nudge, nudge).
3. Provider gives closure to the session. "It's been fun. I hope we can do it again. Next time let's schedule a longer session. Etc., etc."
I've layed many a hints before. Everyone seems to be getting the original point confused, but I really appreciate their kind suggestions. It's not about hints, about music, about telling the guy. These guys already knew, some verbally said the extra money was in the envelope. Then, when I got to my car, I realized they ripped me off. More providers who have been trusting wrote to me to tell me about this, too. That's the whole reason for the post. It's not because I'm angry that this happened. I wasn't going to say anything about it. It's my fault that I got ripped off, but others have been as well, and that's why I posted this on TER. Wink!
Hugs,
ciara
And we wonder why some providers are hardened and callous. I'm sorry this has happened to you. You sound like a real sweetheart. Hope I can meet you someday and give you some hugs and a full envelope.
However, if I do, will you come and oil & rub my feet? Wink!
Hugs,
Ciara
...and I've been as guilty about staying past my time as anyone on this board.
When ladies have said "Please stay" or "You don't have to go" I often took them at their word though I always wondered if they really meant it or if they were just being flattering as part of the fantasy.
I think I understand now and I appreciate your honesty and forthrightness in bringing it up here as an issue.
Again, please let me reiterate about the original post. It wasn't meant to read that I didn't want to spend more time with guys I enjoy (when I offer it) and certainly not stopping them in the middle of a great session just because it's 15 minutes past the hour session. This post was meant to tell new clients about providers getting ripped off. When the lady goes to her car and hasn't counted the money before she leaves, and yes that's our fault, but that doesn't give someone license to continue to do those things. We're talking an hour past the original scheduled time, not 15 or 20 minutes, although some ladies want to be compensated for that and I cannot answer for them. Thank you for understanding this post. I'm sure some men took it wrong -- like always -- but it had nothing to do with going slightly over the alloted time frame. And please, guys, at my age I'm very familiar with "Men Are From Mars, Women Are From Venus" syndrome. You're not that stupid!
Hugs,
Ciara
...but when you beg me to stay...and you WILL...I'll have to say, "No, I can't. It wouldn't be right." 
...I'm not a clock-watcher.
That's just low-class. It's fine to get annoyed if a lady is using "an hour is an hour" as shorthand for "you get one and only one pop, buddy", but don't ever expect to be allowed to screw up a lady's scheduling by overstaying your appointment, and if you think you can do it for *free*... wow. An extra ten minutes, that's one thing, but come on, folks.
Shorting someone on an envelope is downright awful as well. That's just stealing from the provider, and while it can indeed happen that folks might miscount a stack of $20 bills, it shouldn't happen often at all, and you ought to be ashamed if it turns out that it happened to you.
the other providers who emailed me. In my case, the amount was agreed upon and then I was shorted. The bad thing is I actually heard the guy fumbling in the envelope before I came out of the bathroom. So, he either took some out or didn't add anything, but he was fumbling with it.
Hugs,
Ciara
at when it is time to go. My fav.: They start up a shower for you; friendly, yet effective.
On the other hand, I over stayed with a provider with whom I had dinner, and at the end I offered a tip equal to the extra time, but she wouldn't hear of it. So I slipped the money into her purse anyway. She called me later, get this: actually angry that I had done so. She said she refuses to keep it. I said OK, donate to the Katrina relief effort and she did so.
That's what I love about this hobby. You never know what will happen next.
let me break it down to you baby. Wink! Really, I'm smilling as I write this, okay?
The post was meant to first-time clients who actually knew they went over the hour and the ladies (including myself) who opened the envelope, counted the money, whatever you want to call it after the guy left or when she got back into her car. They all knew about the extra hour ahead of time, and YES we were stupid enough to trust them on it. This post wasn't meant to be about going over by a few minutes or even 20 minutes, especially if you both agree you're having a good time (but that can be misinterpreted too). This is about being ripped off and taken advantage of. Granted, it was our fault for not counting the money beforehand, but again sometimes we feel we can trust people and don't like to count money there. This whole GFE thing is getting ridiculous. Everyone wants a GFE and doesn't want to talk money (and that's where I got into trouble and these other ladies, too), but when it comes right down to it: Pay up front, let us count the money in front of you (albeit a little scarey because of LE) and then we can relax and forget about it. You guys don't know the type of stress we're under with LE, competition from ladies who'll do anything for a 10 (which is scarey and unhealthy), and many other factors. There are a lot of things to consider in this market. But I appreciate your honesty, Mr. Fisher, and I have always enjoyed reading your posts. You seem like a real gentleman. I'll remember to contribute some $ to the Katrina cause if you're ever in town. Wink!
Hugs,
Ciara
I do go to Phoenix about once a year in the fall, so perhaps?
When you get to Phoenix, please look me up (or look up my dress, or down it for that matter). Oh, excuse me, I'll feeling faint.
Hugs,
Ciara
There are actually two different issues here. First is the "clock watcher" meaning the stop in the middle of activities and the question "Gee, isn't our hour up?" when I had paid for 90 min! that has actually happened... in other terms it means asking or looking directly at the clock to time that activity... in short - it feels very much like a mechnical episode. That is not very good to the participant and feels bad. What should one do?? it would be good to do as the suggestions below. Have I ever run over? to an extent that would be questioned - YES - but the lady in question kept me (her request) for 4-5 hours - when I scheduled and paid for 1 hour.... to this day - I feel bad about that.... What happens when this occurs - do those who come after have to cool their heals? you betcha - so for that I truly do apologize... You may ask why did the lady keep me over? We had some pretting interesting conversation... and she wished to pursue it!
What do I mean if & when I state not a "clock watcher." I mean that the lady is very much interested in the time we spend together... And I have said - not a clock watcher when at times I would only get 50 min!! because those 50 min were soooooo good.... one such lady actually stopped me and said - "hey - I control the time... please stay a little longer.." With my ATF - We always go over - but in that instance it is much more like a date.... I always pay her for two hours - AND I never ask for her discounts - I feel that by not asking for her discounts - I do take it in time... And - I try to schedule to her activities - not mine.... Think that is appreciated - actually she is much more like a friend than a provider....
And then there are the times when I have scheduled more than an hour -and wish to leave after 30 min..... !!!lol
In general - in my terms "not a clock watcher" usually means - does not make me feel like I have 3600 seconds to get the deed done.... and there is a countdown.... But with the Ciara's I would probably be done in 45 seconds.... being in awe of their beauty and skill! And for them it would be memorable.... me being green and all.
Time is an important issue for both, I have gotten so engaged and having fun, I forget. And he might have somewhere to be after the hour is up. Really never have a problem with people who see me for an hour, but those who request 30 minute sessions always try to stay longer. One to the reasons I will never book anyone for such a short period of time.
But be honest, most understand. They have schedules too. Honesty always works the best. And my advice, when you have good reviews, and someone calls and asks about the clock watching thing, be aware he might be someone who is trying already to get over on you.
-- Modified on 12/12/2005 12:55:40 PM
Again, I should have been more "laconic" in my original post. It's so easily misinterpreted by some people. Again, this post was not directed to gentlemen like yourself, but to first-time clients who have actually ripped some of us off. They knew the hours, it was mentioned before entering the second hour, but then the cash was not there. Most of the time, I do not end at just the hour. I think many men will attest to this and are very happy with me. I've even had men stay three extra hours just to chat with me because they're also friends. That's different.
Hugs,
Ciara
I consider it to be the well-known work practice of "looking busy" while watching for quittin' time. A few things I would consider clockwatching: 1) being informed that there's 45 minutes left in the one hour session; 2) a bored and tactless look toward the clock during sex or during conversation.
There may be other things, but when the session is up, telling your clients it was grand, but its over for now, is not clockwatching to me.
-- Modified on 12/12/2005 10:35:50 AM
Anyway, I offer several nice gestures when the date is over. I know you didn't feel rushed when we were together, did you? Wink! Anyway, the men that have never been with me don't realize what a true GFE I really am, but hey that's for someone else to experience, right? I always seem to take the heat for other providers that are too afraid to voice their opinions, but then again I'm old, confident and don't care. Those who know me know I'm a nice person, and I guess that's all that really matters. It certainly isn't hurting my business. I get the classy gentlemen anyway.
Hugs,
Ciara
I'm not a clock watcher and I never upsell; however, neither am I willing to go unpaid for time unless it's my choice, *not the client's*.
It's simply a matter of respect and basic good manners. If I choose to go over time it's because A. I like the company; or B. My schedule permits it.
If you are the type to expect unpaid time because you are just so damn wonderful, well, you've just shown me you're aren't, and I'll be leaving shortly.
Generally not a problem for me because my gents are stand-up guys with high levels of social skills, or at least regular joes who respect my time.
-- Modified on 12/12/2005 10:46:14 AM
Again, I don't know you and you don't know me. You're probably a very nice woman and a good provider (as me), and it's okay to show some confidence. Isn't that what growing older is all about -- our life experiences, hopefully getting wiser (albeit stupid for not looking at money before leaving hotel - wink), and supporting each other in this business?
Hugs,
ciara
Huh? I stated how I do my business. Don't see how my post was supportive, non-supportive, Republican or late for dinner. It was a statement, nothing more.
Nah, I was reading someone else's post by mistake. Sorry. I placed it in the wrong area and with your name. H E L L O! I'm tired. What can I say? Actually I just read your post. I agree with everything you stated in it.
Hugs,
Ciara
In fact, I was surprised at what could be in a three hour dinner date. At the end I thought: my an overnight with her would be heavenly!
I am wondering, how do providers a) bring up the issue of "past due?" in terms that are acceptable and b) if not acknowledged what would you do to collect... ie, or at least prevent it from happening in the future?
Part of the problem for Indy's is that they are both the "provider" and the "enforcer." Several indy's have told me that while a part of the reason for going indy is the increase in money (but there is also a proportional increase in the "behind the scenes" work) but another reason is so that they CAN be flexible with time....
so - what say all - indy and contract person!?
I will acknowledge the reasons that I am on the boards are:
1) I am lonely and have no friends to chat with...
2) I am hoping that some incredibly beautiful wealthy woman will find me appealing....
3) Looking for one of the Ciara's to fly me to their location to engage in long leisurely walks, candlelight dinners and oh yea, to pay me for the session, I promise I will not be a clock watcher... (winky dinky)
4) I am actually a clinical researcher doing a phase II clinical trial on durgs to enhance the sexual saying power of older gents and am hoping to gather control data through this board
5) I want to be a man-whore and am looking for pointers...
6) I like chatting with women who are providers and fatasize that they type their messages while in the buff - on the other hand I think that the guys are all clothed in isolation suits and drenched in clorox -
7) Bond, Miss Emma Bond will see my brilliance and instantly fly to philly to start an escort fringe benefits business with me....
8) and other such fantasies...
Around about my second year in the 'biz, I did an experiment. I decided to just NOT SAY A WORD to two clients I was seeing, both of whom were... shall we say, "experienced hobbyists." Meaning that they were both board posters, reviewers, who ostensibly knew the etiquette of such a situation.
The first stayed an hour over. Not chatting. Getting every minutes worth, so to speak. He gave me a $20 tip. (Worse than nothing, IMO!) The second stayed 40 minutes over... again, not chatting time!... he left me nothing extra at all.
Neither of these guys saw a thing wrong with it. To them it's the same thing as going to the grocery store and having them give you a free gallon of milk, buy one get one free. Except we are human beings, not giant corporations, and they don't seem to get the difference.
As Ciara said, there are exceptions to every rule. But for me, I like to establish and keep boundaries, and that includes being a clockwatcher in the sense that I try to keep to my schedule. As it stands I have a life, I can't just loll around in bed all day with you guys anyways, much though I might like to sometimes. Usually I really do have to BE somewhere and I'm not flexible on times for my sessions.
One more thing I will add, is that for me, I've found that sticking to my boundaries (time is only one of them) helps to keep things in context and prevents people from misinterpreting things. I try to create a sense of immediate intimacy, and it is not fake by any means... but it IS limited and in a very specific context. Doing this allows me to GIVE and GIVE and GIVE of myself... and still have those boundaries which keep me safe.
I am a giver and a pleaser and I love it, and I'll do what I need to do to enable myself to do that better and better, regardless of whether it's popular to say so on the boards. I'm just me!
There are so many people (providers and hobbyists) that are afraid to say anything on this board in fear of retaliation. I appreciate your professionalism, your honesty and your feedback. I think what you say is truthful. We (providers) can still offer a great GFE experience without having to feel guilty about identifying that the session is over.
Hugs,
Ciara
Have boundaries, have fun..
Have intelligent safety, have fun..
Give with all you've got...have fun!!!
Be consistent, and flexible....have fun!!!
To All SPs:
You control how much time a guy spends with you. When you are ready to end it, then end it, but do not go over by an hour and expect the guy to pay you more money. This is called upselling and is not appreciated. In an outcall situation, the SP has complete control over when the session is over and even in an incall situation, the SP should be adequately skilled to end a session when they want to end it. If you spend extra time with me when we clearly booked for a specific amount of time, then you clearly enjoyed my company (which most women do) and I don't owe you nada. Quit blaming the guys for your lack of time management.
I go into every session with a common expectation around how much time and $s is going to be spent. If you, the SP, change the rules in the middle of the session and expect more $s when you changed the rules, that is called upselling and I will not see you again.
That being said, most of my sessions, particularly my regulars will spend anywhere from 1 to 4 extra hours with me beyond the paid time simply because they enjoy spending time with me. Have even had a SP spend an unexpected and unpaid overnight with me at their choice. Yes if they spend an extravagent amount of time, I will normally tip them something, but not their full hourly rate.
Ciara and others - you are in control of the time situation - so I really don't understand what you are complaining about.
I remove my watch when the session starts. I also remove my eye glasses. I don't keep track of the time elapsed; I depend on the SP to end the session.
Please read the other posts. However, you're right that there are certain circumstances (like I said in my second post because I forgot to add it to my first post) but men are not that stupid either, darlin'! Wink! Now come over here for your spanking!
Hugs,
Ciara
explained more to you. It's about providers opening the envelope or looking at the cash beforehand. This post was about men who agreed to two hours and then to find less money when going back to the car. Actually, read more of the posts. In my case, it was a rip-off. In some of the other providers' cases it was also, but I cannot or will not name those providers. But yes, you're right. I should have been LESS TRUSTING and looked at the money beforehand. Anyway, we are in control, but it's nice also for the man to be thoughtful. I already posted that this does not apply to a lot of men on TER. Gees, guys! We should be able to rant and rave sometimes too. Wink!
Hugs,
Ciara
Keep dreaming of sugarplums my dear. Your regulars spend extra time with you because THEY ARE BEING PAID TO DO SO. Stop paying them and see how much they enjoy your company.
*Sigh*
Another "hobbyist" who thinks he's much more well liked than he actually he is.
Some of you boys really do believe this shit, don't you?
I love women who are not afraid to stand up to some of these hobbyists that think they're shit don't stink! Again, that's only SOME OF YOU!Bravo to you,InterestingWoman!
Hugs,
Ciara
relationship.
A TER buddy of mine once recommended a provider to me (funny thing is he didn't know I was already seeing her and she's one of the best in the business that provides true GFE). He would boast to me about getting extended (great)sessions from her (I mean stretching an hour session into two hours). He seemed to be able to do so consistently for 5 or 6 times making me very jealous of course. One day I asked him about his last session with her (he still didn't know I was seeing her). He said it wasn't great. And I asked him why. He said she told him that he had to leave soon because her next appointment was coming and she also said "next time if you're going to bring a lot of drinks and food, why don't you book me for longer sessions". He always booked her for her last appointment of the day to make sure he got an unrushed time with her (so he knew there wasn't any appointment after him). Quite honestly I was rather envious of him for a while because I felt that perhaps she found him to be a better company than I was (even though she rarely rushed me when I was with her and consistently let me have 10 to 15 minutes overtime). I think that day she finally broke her silence and told him off because she became very resentful of him taking advantage of her. As for him, needless to say, he moved on to another provider after having seen her regularly for 3 months. So this ended up being a loss-loss situation for them.
Clock-watching is not synonmous with true GFE. But,I think we should all respect each other's time, providers and hobbyists alike. I do think also that providers should be very careful about the choice of words and the demeanor and actions you use to end a session so you don't hurt your clients' feelings; after all these are your clients and it makes good business sense to be tactful if you want to be successful. Of course, if you don't care about longevity in this "career, that's another story.
-- Modified on 12/12/2005 7:14:08 PM
However, I must admit I don't notice the clock that much except when I've been shorted by too many newbies. And I would never say anything rude to provoke someone to leave, unless he was being really rude or violent. But thank you for your comments. They were appreciated.
Hugs,
Ciara
... for every client in this "business" who stays beyond the time paid for, there is a provider who leaves before the time paid for.
"Clockwatching" isn't complaining about a provider who ends the session on the hour... its complaining about providers who, with 15 minutes left, get up and get dressed... say something like "you need to hurry up and finish"... or the best one... set their clocks ahead 20 minutes and tell you the session is over.
You received 10 emails from other providers about clients hanging around? In the past 7 years I must have received a few hundred from clients about providers leaving early.
Sorry to sound unsympathetic... but its the same on both sides of the fence sweetie
Please read all my posts. It wasn't about what you've posted, although I appreciate your interest and comments. The providers were ripped-off when leaving the hotel rooms, etc. Anyway, you're free to post on your past bad experiences and I would probably reply, "Gee, I'm sorry you've had some bad providers. That's very unprofessional." So what makes you think that we can't vent a little? Gees, men! Now, come here for your tongue-lashing. Wink!
Hugs,
Ciara
I only read the first post in this thread... I didn't see the need to read the rest... its a pretty long thread on an issue that's been beaten to death time and time again. There were probably another 100 posts like mine in here already. I'm lazy, I don't bother reading the posts that garner 100 plus responses.
...losing an hour to a client can’t compare to the effort of posting thirty three times in this thread alone.
Yes he had NO right and I don’t mean to bash you personally because I don’t know you, but get a life and get over it...
Believe me, I haven't posted several times when I've been burned, but I sure hear hobbyists post a lot about their whines and hassles of the business. These providers (to include me) were ripped off. The reason I posted was to let those THAT ARE FIRST-TIMERS know that we are aware of this going on. As I stated in my original post, this was not for some on TER who don't do this and are gentlemen. This is a business, remember that when you go to the doctor's office, okay? READ ALL THE POSTS.
Hugs,
Ciara